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Is Gluten Bad For Everyone?


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#16 Aly1

 
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Posted 09 March 2012 - 12:26 PM

People with celiac disease absolutely react to kamut, spelt, and other ancient grains, and they have plenty of gluten. What he did is interesting but it's obviously not generalizable. :) I have a friend who is a gluten-intolerant botanist and she even reacts to wild triticae grains she's collected. I haven't read the book to comment further.


The author (which I see is William Davis MD) says "triticum species of today are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of genes apart from the original einkorn wheat that bred naturally." The wheat he used for his "test" was the einkorn wheat grain. He got it from a woman who's the founder of the Heritage Wheat Conservancy (www.growseed.org). I should go look that up, I wonder if anyone can order it or if she just provided it for his personal research. Anyway it apparently is totally different species of wheat and modern wheat comes from a different species. Supposedly you can't even create our modern-day baking feats (think croissants, cakes, bread as we know it) with the stuff, those qualities have been bred into various types of grains.

Just to clarify, the author's point isn't that high levels of gluten are causing issues, but that current-day wheat has been genetically altered to produce pest resilience, fast crop growth etc etc., to the point of causing problems with human consumption. In his opinion, small changes in wheat protein structure spell the difference between "a devastating immune response" vs no response at all. I should have made that clearer given the context of the ongoing discussion here.
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#17 Strawberry_Jam

 
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Posted 09 March 2012 - 01:12 PM

Considering there was celiac or something like it in Ancient Rome, there's gotta be something else going on at the same time.

Altho I would imagine that massively altering food is not the best thing to do.
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#18 Skylark

 
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Posted 09 March 2012 - 05:58 PM

Interesting stuff, Aly. I notice Wikipedia mentions that einkorn may not be as toxic to folks with celiac and gives a reference to this super-interesting study. They took a biopsy from people with celiac disease and exposed it to modern wheat or einkorn. There was only a reaction to modern wheat. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17060124

Spelt is old too, and supposedly kamut is, but both are toxic to celiacs. That gives me trouble with the whole "modern wheat is bad, old wheat is good" idea. Same with my friend's wild Triticum grains. That was not cultivated stuff or even wheat, it's natural grasses where she collected grain to eat for fun. (Turned out to be not so fun.) I wonder if einkorn is just different enough to be safe, like oats.
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#19 Aly1

 
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Posted 09 March 2012 - 06:03 PM

Interesting stuff, Aly. I notice Wikipedia mentions that einkorn may not be as toxic to folks with celiac and gives a reference to this super-interesting study. They took a biopsy from people with celiac disease and exposed it to modern wheat or einkorn. There was only a reaction to modern wheat. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17060124

Spelt is old too, and supposedly kamut is, but both are toxic to celiacs. That gives me trouble with the whole "modern wheat is bad, old wheat is good" idea. Same with my friend's wild Triticum grains. That was not cultivated stuff or even wheat, it's natural grasses where she collected grain to eat for fun. (Turned out to be not so fun.) I wonder if einkorn is just different enough to be safe, like oats.


Very interesting...I haven't returned the book to the library, and now I am curious as to what he says about spelt and kamut...I think he might have said something but I would probably have glossed over it. If he says anything interesting I'll post it :).
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#20 tennisman

 
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Posted 10 March 2012 - 04:14 PM

I don't believe gluten is bad for everyone , lots of athletes eat pasta before playing sports surely if gluten was bad for everyone the athletes would struggle eating pasta before playing sports . I think the gluten free diet is over rated , I have more health problems on the gluten-free diet than before I was diagnosed :S I have read lately gluten damages everyone's villi it's complete BS otherwise everyone would be diagnosed with celiac disease . I don't know where the gluten damages non Celiac's villi information comes from , these days the gluten-free diet is seen as a miracle diet I have known healthy people go 50 % gluten free for the hell of it and say they are now Celiac :o I find it very annoying people seem so desperate to have celiac disease I don't get it.
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#21 Skylark

 
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Posted 10 March 2012 - 04:37 PM

Very interesting...I haven't returned the book to the library, and now I am curious as to what he says about spelt and kamut...I think he might have said something but I would probably have glossed over it. If he says anything interesting I'll post it :).

That would be great. I'm really curious now. :)
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#22 mushroom

 
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Posted 10 March 2012 - 05:03 PM

I notice Wikipedia mentions that einkorn may not be as toxic to folks with celiac and gives a reference to this super-interesting study. They took a biopsy from people with celiac disease and exposed it to modern wheat or einkorn. There was only a reaction to modern wheat. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17060124


That was a really interesting study, Skylark. Thanks for posting.
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#23 Aly1

 
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Posted 11 March 2012 - 08:18 AM

Interesting stuff, Aly. I notice Wikipedia mentions that einkorn may not be as toxic to folks with celiac and gives a reference to this super-interesting study. They took a biopsy from people with celiac disease and exposed it to modern wheat or einkorn. There was only a reaction to modern wheat. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17060124

Spelt is old too, and supposedly kamut is, but both are toxic to celiacs. That gives me trouble with the whole "modern wheat is bad, old wheat is good" idea. Same with my friend's wild Triticum grains. That was not cultivated stuff or even wheat, it's natural grasses where she collected grain to eat for fun. (Turned out to be not so fun.) I wonder if einkorn is just different enough to be safe, like oats.


Okay so it took me a while to find his reference to other grains because his book is about wheat :) so it was a buried in there. Here's what he says as to why he doesn't address other grains:

"Of all the grains in the human diet, why only pick on wheat? Because wheat, by a considerable margin, is the dominant source of gluten protein in the human diet."..."most people don't each much rye, barley, spelt, triticale, bulgar, kamut, or less common gluten sources; wheat consumption overshadows consumption of other gluten-containing grains more than a hundred to one."

I don't know if I really agree that things like rye aren't consumed a lot, but I guess I agree that wheat would still "win" by a fair margin given how so many processed foods use wheat as an additive. So it would seem that he based his research on this only - and he delves pretty deep with it; if he had investigated the background of all those grains it would have been quite the fat book! :).

I hope you read it, I'd love to hear your thoughts on what he says!
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#24 Skylark

 
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Posted 11 March 2012 - 04:30 PM

In other words, he ignored ancient grains that didn't fit his idea. He wants to cast modern wheat as a villian. It's good marketing. :rolleyes:
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#25 Aly1

 
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Posted 11 March 2012 - 04:44 PM

Hmmm, maybe!
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#26 Lori2

 
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Posted 13 March 2012 - 02:16 PM

This is totally anecdotal. I talked to someone the other day who travels to Europe frequently. He is not celiac. He cannot eat wheat bread in the US but he can eat the wheat bread in Europe. He is convinced that it has something to do with the GMO changes to US wheat that are not allowed in Europe.
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#27 Strawberry_Jam

 
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Posted 13 March 2012 - 11:58 PM

If he's not celiac, why does he have problems with wheat in America?
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#28 Skylark

 
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Posted 14 March 2012 - 11:41 AM

If he's not celiac, why does he have problems with wheat in America?

Could be reactions to preservatives or dough conditioners used in American bread, or a reaction to GMO wheat which isn't allowed in Europe.
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