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Crohns Vs. Celiac
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I have this friend that is always I mean always in and out of the bathroom, with what she has been diagnosed with as Croons. But when my symptoms got the worst she asked me if I had been tested for Croons. I would like to talk to her about going on a gluten-free Diet herself. Mainly because along with the Croons issues, she has mood disorders, thyroid issues among others.

I would just like to get a few websites on the benefits on the gluten-free diet with Croons. I dont think she has Celiac, but on the other hand I think that she could benefit from the diet to help with the symptoms of the Croons.

Any suggestions?

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Good for you for trying to help your friend. :)

The Crohn's Forum is a good site for info. Some people with Crohn's do feel better on a gluten-free diet. Others don't report feeling any better at all. So it is not a sure thing that it will help her. It seems there is no way to tell if it will help except to try the the gluten-free diet though. There are people with Crohn's on that forum who are trying the gluten-free diet now, so she might want to join (it's free) and check with them. They are real nice people too. There is plenty of good info on gluten-free right here if she needs it also..

They also have threads on other things like psyillium husks, helpful drugs and some natural herbs etc. So if she isn't on the Crohn's forum now she is missing out on lots of info from fellow Crohnies that might help her. One of the big topics is how to get into remission and that is good stuff for her to read also. The site also ah info on the various surgery options. It is really a gret site for Crohn's info.

Crohn's forum

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Since my doctor routinely checks people with celiac disease for Crohn's (and he did for me, since it is in my family) he seems to think they are related.

Do people with Crohn's also have Celiac? Yes!

She has another AI disease already (thyroid), so she may want to ask for a Celiac test from her GI doctor.

Otherwise, whether your friend will benefit from a gluten-free diet or not--well, she can try it and see!

I see Gee Eff in Dee Cee has already referred you to the site.

You're a good friend to help her feel better!

Here are a few articles you might find interesting:

http://www.celiac.com/articles/915/1/Celiac-Disease-Prevalence-High-in-Patients-with-Crohns-Disease/Page1.html

http://www.celiac.com/articles/22440/1/Study-Shows-Celiac-Crohns-Disease-Share-Genetic-Links/Page1.html

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I have this friend that is always I mean always in and out of the bathroom, with what she has been diagnosed with as Croons. But when my symptoms got the worst she asked me if I had been tested for Croons. I would like to talk to her about going on a gluten-free Diet herself. Mainly because along with the Croons issues, she has mood disorders, thyroid issues among others.

I would just like to get a few websites on the benefits on the gluten-free diet with Croons. I dont think she has Celiac, but on the other hand I think that she could benefit from the diet to help with the symptoms of the Croons.

Any suggestions?

EDITED TO FIX LINK!

Your friend might look into the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, you can read up on it at Breaking the Vicious Cycle. It is not only gluten-free, but grain-free and starch-free.

This is a diet created especially for people with Crohn's, ulcerative colitis, and other intestinal maladies. My daughter-in-law went on it after a long struggle with c. diff, and she has been thriving on it. The "legal" foods are based on their molecular structure, only simple carbohydrates are allowed. It probably compares well to the "paleo" diet that is becoming very popular.

Another similar diet is GAPS, ("gut and psychology syndrome").

There are folks here using both diets; you might find some of their posts by using the forum "search" tool and searching for "GAPS" or "SCD" or "specific carbohydrate".

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Your friend might look into the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, you can read up on it at Breaking the Vicious Cycle. It is not only gluten-free, but grain-free and starch-free.

This link does not work. Can you try another? Thanks, Beachbirdie!

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This link does not work. Can you try another? Thanks, Beachbirdie!

OOPS! Got it fixed, sorry about that!

Thanks for pointing out the problem! :blink:

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My sister has Crohn's. Hers won't go into remission, so she has to get IV therapy to keep her immune system knocked down. I've told her she should try gluten-free, but she won't do it. She says she can't. I think she tried for just a few days and gave up? I told her she should be tested for Celiac, but she won't do that either. :blink:

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So I talked to her, I went about it softly, she asked how the diet was going, and if my symptoms had cleared up I said for the most part. She was like so do you think its a possibility that you have Crohn's. I said I havent ruled it out but there is studies that have been done about the relation between Celiac and Crohn's. That some people with Crohn's are seeing improvement in their health by going on the diet, and that she might want to atleast talk to her doctor about going on the diet. She cant even go to her sons soccer games because there is no real bathroom for her to use. If that were me I would draw the line there and do what ever it took to clear things up. She said she would talk to her Dx and see what she thought.

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I have a cousin with Crohn's and while I haven't talked with her about Celiac and gluten-free I have talked with her sister who has gallbladder disease and "other issues". I know the Crohns cousin is not gluten-free. I mentioned there's quite a bit of overlap and my cousin didn't know that.

It seems the crohns community is not very aware of the correlation.

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Well, shoot, ten years ago, before I knew about celiac and gluten, my MIL's caregiver was always complaining about her Crohn's disease, and she was an inveterate pasta consumer, and I said to hubs, I thought people with Crohn's were not supposed to eat pasta???? Don't know how I heard this, but I kept thinking she is eating the wrong diet for her condition :blink: Of course, that was what I was eating too, but then, I didn't have Crohn's :ph34r::rolleyes:

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Well, shoot, ten years ago, before I knew about celiac and gluten, my MIL's caregiver was always complaining about her Crohn's disease, and she was an inveterate pasta consumer, and I said to hubs, I thought people with Crohn's were not supposed to eat pasta???? Don't know how I heard this, but I kept thinking she is eating the wrong diet for her condition :blink: Of course, that was what I was eating too, but then, I didn't have Crohn's :ph34r::rolleyes:

I hear that crohns patients should be on an anti-inflammatory diet - which excludes gluten (and all grains, I think).

I don't see the correlation of Celiac very often.

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It seems to me doctors don't push gluten-free to Crohns' patients because it doesn't help all of them. They suggest a low residue diet instead, white bread? Seems daffy to me as a celiac but lots of Crohns patients are told diet has no relation. And it doesn't help them all, it is not like celiac where it is a definite known thing. In fact, celiac is the only autoimmune disease where the trigger is known, ie gluten.

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My cousin with Crohn's (and RA and thyroid disease) read the info I sent to my large family. They ALL have major gastro issues,(try finding a GB left among us! lactose intolerance, "IBS", GERD, colitis, diverticulitis, etc. ) various AI diseases (MS, diabetes, asthma, RA, Thyroid) and neuro/psych issues. My rather graphic description of my 3- year decline was sent to try and get them to see how gluten could be their problem, too? (to no avail) :rolleyes:

BTW, Do any of us think it's a coincidence that we have Celiac and the rest of our family members have Crohn's or other AI diseases?

Nope.

After reading all I wrote, she said to my Mom:

"That sounds exactly like me! I should be gluten free."

She has not done it as yet, I do not think--but her Crohn's has progressed so far that she wears a colostomy bag. She was only in her 40's when that happened. :(

I think if I were in the situation, I would at least TRY the diet and see if I felt better. What's the big deal?

Why are people so reluctant to try something that may help them feel better and stop living in the bathroom?

Hubs says: They weren't as sick as you. They have to be pushed to near death to take that step.

Maybe so.

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IrishHeart "Hubs says: They weren't as sick as you. They have to be pushed to near death to take that step."

Thats about where I am, when I was 16 I felt as though I was going to die. I had my gallbladder removed, I had acid reflux, I couldn't hold anything down, and wasn't responding to any medication what so ever. They could give me a shot of a medication then take a blood sample less than 24 hours later to test for the medication to find that I didn't have it in my system any longer. My mother was starting to talk about moving so where that I could get a precription for marijuana in the hopes it would help me eat, I had lost 60 lbs in one year. When I started getting sick again I freaked and was willing to do anything to keep from getting that bad again.

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My cousin with Crohn's (and RA and thyroid disease) read the info I sent to my large family. They ALL have major gastro issues,(try finding a GB left among us! lactose intolerance, "IBS", GERD, colitis, diverticulitis, etc. ) various AI diseases (MS, diabetes, asthma, RA, Thyroid) and neuro/psych issues. My rather graphic description of my 3- year decline was sent to try and get them to see how gluten could be their problem, too? (to no avail) :rolleyes:

BTW, Do any of us think it's a coincidence that we have Celiac and the rest of our family members have Crohn's or other AI diseases?

Nope.

After reading all I wrote, she said to my Mom:

"That sounds exactly like me! I should be gluten free."

She has not done it as yet, I do not think--but her Crohn's has progressed so far that she wears a colostomy bag. She was only in her 40's when that happened. :(

I think if I were in the situation, I would at least TRY the diet and see if I felt better. What's the big deal?

Why are people so reluctant to try something that may help them feel better and stop living in the bathroom?

Hubs says: They weren't as sick as you. They have to be pushed to near death to take that step.

Maybe so.

DH accomplishes the same thing. Although, there were a few days I wondered how life was gonna work out, pre DH...with the belly aches, etc.

Yeah. All-over blisters make you reevaluate the importance of a baguette.

I agree. They just aren't sick enough yet (from their perspective).

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a big reason for the low residue diet is that many have such extreme swelling in the large intestine that passage of stool is difficult. That can lead to the need for surgery. If you reduce the residue,...poo..., you can buy a lot of time where hopefully you will go into remission where the swelling will reduce.

Crohns used to be thought of as an autoimmune disease, but the current research shows it to be a weakened immune system. The body tries to adapt and goes wonky. It is definitely interesting to say the least.

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a big reason for the low residue diet is that many have such extreme swelling in the large intestine that passage of stool is difficult. That can lead to the need for surgery. If you reduce the residue,...poo..., you can buy a lot of time where hopefully you will go into remission where the swelling will reduce.

Crohns used to be thought of as an autoimmune disease, but the current research shows it to be a weakened immune system. The body tries to adapt and goes wonky. It is definitely interesting to say the least.

So where does that leave someone with both crohns and Celiac? Because they say there's significant overlap.

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I think they still categorize it as an AI disease, at least the NIH and the AARDA does.

"The exact cause of Crohn's disease is unknown. It is an autoimmune disorder, which is a condition that occurs when your body's immune system mistakenly attacks and destroys healthy body tissue.

People with Crohn's disease have ongoing (chronic) inflammation of the gastrointestinal tract.

Severe inflammation and obstruction of various parts of the gastrointestinal tract due to swelling and scar formation can cause other problems like bowel perforation, abdominal distension (swelling), severe pain, and fever. This can be life-threatening.

Also, because Crohn's disease is an autoimmune disease, other parts of the body can become inflamed including the joints, eyes, mouth, and skin. In addition, gallstones, and kidney stones may also develop as a result of Crohn's disease.

Moreover, children with the disease may experience decreased growth or delayed sexual development."

Crohn's kind of walks and talks a bit like Celiac, doesn't it? :unsure:

My cousin suffered terribly from it. She was always in the hospital, having more and more of her colon removed.

In any case, if putting down the bagel helps, why not try it?

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That is the interesting thing. The current research articles say deficiency but the treatment focuses on reducing the immune response. Some researchers are focusing on immune activators while others want to reduce it. I think overall, it is still labelled an AI but in that weird stage between the two where no one is completely sure anymore.

And yes, the overlap is incredible. The differences between the two and what is happening are very similar. Crohns seems to be the body attacking bacteria, celiac hitting gluten. Ours causes issues but theirs causing destruction requiring surgery at times. Why the difference? Seems we got a bit lucky.

Oddly, nicotine helps ulcerative colitis but smoking triggers crohns. they both respond similarly to medications, so some docs are using nicotine suppositories with good success so far.

It would all be fascinating if not so devastating.

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That is the interesting thing. The current research articles say deficiency but the treatment focuses on reducing the immune response. Some researchers are focusing on immune activators while others want to reduce it. I think overall, it is still labelled an AI but in that weird stage between the two where no one is completely sure anymore.

And yes, the overlap is incredible. The differences between the two and what is happening are very similar. Crohns seems to be the body attacking bacteria, celiac hitting gluten. Ours causes issues but theirs causing destruction requiring surgery at times. Why the difference? Seems we got a bit lucky.

Oddly, nicotine helps ulcerative colitis but smoking triggers crohns. they both respond similarly to medications, so some docs are using nicotine suppositories with good success so far.

It would all be fascinating if not so devastating.

Exactly.

The fascinating if not devastating part.

I wonder if Crohn's is sometimes "the next step" after ai (Celiac). When the body tires of attacking itself it moves on...

Because if Crohns isn't truly ai and is an under active immune system, and Celiac is ai...those people with both are both over performing and under performing at the same time???

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The Crohn's and Colitis Foundation says it's an autoimmune disease.

Autoimmune means a condition that occurs when your body's immune system mistakenly attacks and destroys healthy body tissue.

Under their section: Why Do We Need More Research?

Although we have made very significant advances

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The Crohn's and Colitis Foundation says it's an autoimmune disease.

Autoimmune means a condition that occurs when your body's immune system mistakenly attacks and destroys healthy body tissue.

Under their section: Why Do We Need More Research?

Although we have made very significant advances

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My boyfriend has a really bad case of crohns and could not get his symptoms under control after a bowel resection and strong meds. He met me, went dairy and gluten free when I did (ironically I always avoided wheat in general because I didn't like it, then ate it all the time when he was the chef and I got insanely sick!). He now has no symptoms, no meds. He was never checked for celiac or lactose intolerance. I wouldn't expect the dietary changes to work for everyone, but hey, why the heck not try it out? :) Or at the very least get the blood test. Boy is he glad he met me!

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My boyfriend has a really bad case of crohns and could not get his symptoms under control after a bowel resection and strong meds. He met me, went dairy and gluten free when I did (ironically I always avoided wheat in general because I didn't like it, then ate it all the time when he was the chef and I got insanely sick!). He now has no symptoms, no meds. He was never checked for celiac or lactose intolerance. I wouldn't expect the dietary changes to work for everyone, but hey, why the heck not try it out? :) Or at the very least get the blood test. Boy is he glad he met me!

I bet he is...

I have had several conversations with her about the diet, she is interested. although she is not interested enough to try the diet. She had crohns surgery 10 years ago, and from what she says its in remission. I dont quite believe its in complete remission, she still has to run to the bathroom soon after eating, and has plenty of problems with just about anything she eats.

She is learning, and I think she might try it eventually... Maybe

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    • I found when I went gluten free I started eating more dairy and that gave me worse stomach aches and bloating than the gluten did. So now I have to avoid gluten and dairy.  Maybe you have a similar problem with something you are eating.  I hope you feel better soon.  
    • Hi! I received my "official" celiac diagnosis last week. I had an endoscopy last month that was originally looking for ulcers and h. pylori, but they did some biopsies of my duodenum since they were in the neighborhood and the biopsy came back "consistent with Celiac's disease" and later. They urged me to get my blood checked and follow up with my primary doctor. My blood work came back negative, but my doctor was confident it's Celiac so told me to stay away from gluten. I've been completely gluten free (or to the best of my knowledge) for 2 weeks now, and my results are mixed. At first, I felt great! My stomach was no longer CRAZY bloated once I stopped eating pasta and bread, my acne started healing, and the red rash on the back of my arms started to fade. That was the first few days. Lately, though, my acne is once again flaring up and I've been SO EXHAUSTED. I feel so tired all the time. Even now I have fatigue in my head, limbs, and I could hardly walk or move my body earlier today. I'm overweight and I like to go to the gym, but what used to be an easy workout for me is kicking my ass! I used to go to the gym and tear it up: HIIT on the treadmill followed by 40 minutes of heavy weight lifting. Now I can hardly finish 3 reps in my first set without feeling like a nap. I can't run anymore because my body feels clumsy and heavy. Also, I'm still bloated. I don't suffer from painful, acute bloating, but I struggle to pass gas and I look like I have pregnant belly. I think I'm also retaining water all over my body, and I'm not sure if that's normal? For whatever reason, I have this belief that water is mainly retained in the core and not arms, legs, and face. Anyway, I'd love to hear what you have to say/what you've experienced. Is this typical to first going gluten free?
    • Thanks Stephanie & Gemini for the info. that the 4 of 5 doesn't apply to children. I wasn't aware of that until now. 
    • I think the posters above have given you very good information and I will throw in my 2 cents worth.  I am surprised that they did not test her DGP IgA also.  I am sure that would have been positive.  They switched off with antibody classes and usually they do both tests for both antibodies.  IgA is more specific to Celiac but the IgG is also useful.  The testing shows your daughter is producing antibodies to the gluten in her diet. (DGP IGG). THe tTg shows positive for some damage or inflammation. You know........your daughter is only 4.  She hasn't been on the planet or eating gluten that long. It can take years for enough damage to occur for it to be able to be found on biopsy.  I would say it is highly likely that this is Celiac, especially with her symptoms. But because the damage hasn't graduated to bad enough yet, they won't diagnose her. I think you need to do what others have said and get all copies of testing and find someone else who will take a look and give a diagnosis, especially if they have you do a dietary trial and her symptoms go away.  That might be the only recourse if you want faster proof. I know I would want faster.  I would not really be happy if I thought I had to keep feeding her something that was making her sick.  If you keep her on gluten long enough, the diarrhea will probably show up. BTW.........the criteria mentioned regarding diagnosis does not apply to kids.  I know it's silly and stupid but most leading Celiac specialists do not go by this criteria for kids.......adults only.  Keep that in mind because it might come up.  You could recognize it but they might not. Have you considered gene testing, to help bolster a diagnosis? As far as false positives go, it's the other way around. False negatives happen more frequently than many people think.  It's a recurring theme here.  With her symptoms, which is what I had, a bloated belly and tummy aches are telling.  Have they tested her for lactose intolerance?  That can cause similar symptoms, although it sure won't raise those 2 blood tests.  Keep looking for Celiac because there are many red flags here.
    • This 4 out of 5 criteria does not apply to children. I was never given a reason why, but it isn't.     That said, you may try to get a second opinion from another GI who may be willing to give her a firm dx.  We were in your boat 6 years ago and while I'm sure I'll get slammed for it, I wish we had kept gluten in our kiddos diet till he scoped positive for a variety of reasons.  Again, even family is different and you have to find what is best for you!
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