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Hypothyroidism
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I had blood test with negative antibodies for thyroid disorder and yet my levels were off...I COULD have hashimotos still as i've never had a biopsy but...as of now it seems I don't. Has anyone ever been diagnosed hypothyroid and actually had it heal after going gluten free or addressing something like estrogen dominance with progesterone treatment? I'm just curious as I have someone telling me now that they have never ever seen anyone heal. But I've heard some supposedly who have. I know hashimotos is lifelong but so far I don't seem to have that.

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for me your post is confusing... I myself have never heard of doing a biospy for Hashimotos......thyroid disease can be controlled with proper medication, is that what you mean by saying "heal"

Are you getting celiac & thyroid issues confused? Doctors do biospys for celiac disease........

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I found out that you can't know "for sure" that you have autoimmune thyroid issues unless you get a tissue biopsy from the thyroid. Because for some it doesn't show up in blood tests..like celiacs. I am on a gluten free diet now. I wasn't at the time I was diagnosed hypothyroid. By heal i mean if you are not on meds yet...and you are not severely hypo...is it possible your thyroid will go back to normal if you quite gluten or treat any number of the causes that exist aside from autoimmune thyroiditis..like too little iodine or estrogen dominance etc which can both cause hypothyroidism as well. 90% of thyroid cases are autoimmune but not all. So far it seems i don't have it...what I was saying is i MIGHT but i've never had a needle biopsy done of my thyroid. As for gluten testing I am waiting for results of a stool test but I know i feel better off gluten so...

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thanks for explaining...I do not know of anyone personally who has went gluten-free, had thyroid issues &once gluten-free didn't still have thyroid issues as before gluten-free...

We can control autoimmume disease to a point but no cures to my knowledge...

Hope someone elsee will be able to answer your question....

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I found out that you can't know "for sure" that you have autoimmune thyroid issues unless you get a tissue biopsy from the thyroid. Because for some it doesn't show up in blood tests..like celiacs. I am on a gluten free diet now. I wasn't at the time I was diagnosed hypothyroid. By heal i mean if you are not on meds yet...and you are not severely hypo...is it possible your thyroid will go back to normal if you quite gluten or treat any number of the causes that exist aside from autoimmune thyroiditis..like too little iodine or estrogen dominance etc which can both cause hypothyroidism as well. 90% of thyroid cases are autoimmune but not all. So far it seems i don't have it...what I was saying is i MIGHT but i've never had a needle biopsy done of my thyroid. As for gluten testing I am waiting for results of a stool test but I know i feel better off gluten so...

Wendybird......I have had Hashi's for 20 years and am pretty well versed on the subject. Not an expert but I know and have seen a lot.

Yes, you can have Hashi's brewing and I think it will not start showing in blood work for awhile. You can have symptoms and not have it show in your blood work, in the beginning. Once it starts to really attack the thyroid, your numbers will start to go up but it is possible to have Hashi's, in the early stages, and it will not show in blood work. Kind of weird but that's how autoimmune diseases work.

Look at Celiac! You can have a flaming case of it and negative blood work. I have found the one truth of AI diseases is that current testing by the AMA is not all that great. Testing is limited and seems to show the advanced cases and not the people who have just triggered.

I have never heard of estrogen dominance causing hypothyroid. Most women become estrogen dominant as they enter menopause because progesterone is the first hormone to dump when true menopause has started. Then your estrogen levels drop. I am post menopausal

myself by 8 years and have had no problems maintaining thyroid levels post menopause.

As for healing the thyroid, the jury is out on that. My thyroid TPO antibodies were 1200 the year before I was diagnosed with celiac disease. Normal is under 40 so you can see how much damage I had. I have never been able to stop taking thyroid hormone but I have no issue with that. It's not medication you are taking but hormone replacement therapy. I take a natural thyoid hormone with both T3 and T4. I was able to bring my TPO antibody levels down to the normal range but it took 6 years of being gluten-free to do that. That doesn't mean I am cured but my thyroid is no longer under attack by my AI system. The existing damage is permanent.

I think if you have not triggered for Hashi's but your thyroid is a little low, there is the possibility that you can heal. But for true Hashi's, I doubt it. Once you have triggered, I know of no one who can untrigger an AI disease. You can manage them well, but not cure them. I have never had a biopsy either because I refuse to see an endocrinologist. I see a functional medicine MD who has done wonders at getting me back on track. I was super positive in my blood work so never felt the need for a biopsy. Plus, no one is sticking a needle in my neck! :o

I would also include symptoms in your diagnosis...... that is the old way of doing things and the doctors today will not treat unless your numbers are tanked.....bad idea. Do you have many symptoms of hypothyoid? If you do, you need to treat them. This is what helps to keep your thyroid from getting really bad and why so many women walk around cold, tired and unable to lose weight. You really have to fight for good medical care today and it's only going to get worse if the government gets involved. My thyroid did not get better until I went gluten-free and then it took awhile for me to start to absorb the meds correctly. Be patient and yes, I hate that word too! Improvement can take awhile.

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Alas I do have symptoms like slowed down metabolism and feeling cold and sluggish with foggy brain but it seems it could be my adrenals as well..which are also low..and possibly gluten as i only recently went gluten free. So since my bloodwork for hashi's was negative...i'm still thinking I could have it as 90% of people hypothyroid do..but...i've known many young women who had to go on progesterone cream for estrogen dominance so I feel like for my own peace of mind i want to handle one or two things at a time here to make sure i actually do have autoimmune thyroid problems and that i'm not part of that other 10%. Because I went through a long period of high stress and my hormones are not super low it makes me feel that sluggish adrenals could be effecting how well my thyroid works...as my body doesn't have the energy to support it etc. So we'll see i guess. I was just curious as I've heard, like you, some mixed ideas on it. Some seem to say they got better and some say never because they have autoimmune. I'm pretty sure once you have hashi's that's it..you have it. you can lessen the damage but it's there. The other 10% of people without autoimmune but some other version of hypothyroid...that, i'm curious about.

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Wendybird - I have had "hypothyroidism" for 13+ years. When originally dx, and I think a few other times along the years, I have had the antibody test it always showed no hashimoto. Last year, when I started having neurological symptoms (2.5 years into permanent surgical menopause with NO hormone replacement) my antibodies were tested again and they were off the charts. I was told a biopsy was not needed to confirm because my thyroid ultrasound showed no nodules.

Turns out my neurological symptoms seem to be from celiac. So, definately no on the extrogen domonance, but perhaps the hashimoto's was kicked up by the celiac.. or something...

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Wendybird - I have had "hypothyroidism" for 13+ years. When originally dx, and I think a few other times along the years, I have had the antibody test it always showed no hashimoto. Last year, when I started having neurological symptoms (2.5 years into permanent surgical menopause with NO hormone replacement) my antibodies were tested again and they were off the charts. I was told a biopsy was not needed to confirm because my thyroid ultrasound showed no nodules.

Turns out my neurological symptoms seem to be from celiac. So, definately no on the extrogen domonance, but perhaps the hashimoto's was kicked up by the celiac.. or something...

Very interesting. I too, had an ultrasound. Mine said "no suspicious nodules". Not sure if that means none or just none that looked cancerous. I kinda wonder if I've been gluten intolerant my whole life due to irritable bowel problems up through my childhood and teens. Past few years I've noticed a kind of tissuey film on the outside of my stool when i use the washroom. not a lot but a little..floating in the water. I wouldn't doubt it if i DID have hashimotos..probably brought on by gluten intolerance. But i really don't know for sure unfortunately.

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Well, you may never know, or only know in time.

If your thyroid is under active, you will supplement - whether it's Hashis or not. If you're going gluten-free anyway - you're gluten-free (in case it's Hashis).

Just keep testing.

If you are opposed to hormone treatment supplament with other things like selenium, etc. (get the thyroid books out and start picking). If you don't respond move on to hormone treatment.

The biggest difference I've seen is that Hashis tend to NOT do well on iodine whereas other hypos may benefit. But you can try it and see (that's what they advise anyway).

Being hypo seems to correspond to adrenal issues - hard to paraphrase it but they are codependent and you have to incrementally improve one and let the other catch up/or improve both at the same time.

Anyway, my advice is to not beat it to death now. Antibody levels and tsh both fluctuate. Keep testing?

Yes, some people (not Hashis) are temporarily hypo. But you'll never know up front....I think you just have to treat it and see what happens (even if you don't use thyroid hormone supplaments and use herbal/mineral/vitamin).

I use progrstetone cream. I tried estrogen/progesterone combo and it didn't go well. But then again, I probably have endometriosis so estrogen shouldn't be used. I also tried a very low dose DHA/progenolone supplament. I mean extremely low - and it seems to help my energy and clarity (my cortisol levels are off).

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Well, you may never know, or only know in time.

If your thyroid is under active, you will supplement - whether it's Hashis or not. If you're going gluten-free anyway - you're gluten-free (in case it's Hashis).

Just keep testing.

If you are opposed to hormone treatment supplament with other things like selenium, etc. (get the thyroid books out and start picking). If you don't respond move on to hormone treatment.

The biggest difference I've seen is that Hashis tend to NOT do well on iodine whereas other hypos may benefit. But you can try it and see (that's what they advise anyway).

Being hypo seems to correspond to adrenal issues - hard to paraphrase it but they are codependent and you have to incrementally improve one and let the other catch up/or improve both at the same time.

Anyway, my advice is to not beat it to death now. Antibody levels and tsh both fluctuate. Keep testing?

Yes, some people (not Hashis) are temporarily hypo. But you'll never know up front....I think you just have to treat it and see what happens (even if you don't use thyroid hormone supplaments and use herbal/mineral/vitamin).

I use progrstetone cream. I tried estrogen/progesterone combo and it didn't go well. But then again, I probably have endometriosis so estrogen shouldn't be used. I also tried a very low dose DHA/progenolone supplament. I mean extremely low - and it seems to help my energy and clarity (my cortisol levels are off).

*nods* that's what I am currently trying..to bring up adrenals...if i have estrogen dominance i'm going on progesterone only..i don't want to deal with estrogen at all that scares me too much. I am also looking into iron etc

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Hi there. I have had hashimotos for around twenty years. Going gluten free has no confirmed connection to the start of thyroid conditions, although many celiac also have thyroid conditions. When there is enough damage done to the thyroid it will then show in a blood test. Also having a nodule does not mean the levels will go up or down. Once damage is done it is done. There is never the necessity to biopsy for a thyroid condition. I think your confusion comes from having a nodule on the thyroid. This requires an ultrasound and if necessary a needle biopsy to confirm the type. I know this because I have them and get an ultrasound every six months. Also, you do not have to have thyroid disease to have nodules. If you are still concerned about your adrenal glands, there is a autoimmune condition called Addison disease. Like thyroid disease, this one attacks the adrenal glands. My concern for you is that you may be taking second hand advice as the researched truth. If you have these conditions it will come out in blood tests at some point.

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Hi there. I am really new here but really wanted to share with you some links that I found, which I hope you find helpful.

I have Hashimoto's, and am now Gluten and Lactose intolerent. Looking back and really thinking about it, Im not sure now which came first as I have been unwell for some time. Knowledge is so important though, and I don't think we can really ever know enough. Also everyone is so unique so what works for some, may not work for others.

http://chriskresser.com/the-gluten-thyroid-connection

http://www.drlam.com/articles/adrenal_fatigue.asp?page=3

The first gives info on the link between Hashimotos and Gluten intolerence, and the second is a very informative site of Adrenal fatigue.

I hope you feel better soon. Cath

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My father was diagnosed with hypothyroidism and later found to have celiac disease.

When I was diagnosed as a celiac, my thyroid numbers had more than tripled in the three years previous, and the docs were looking at diagnosing me with hypothyroidism, too.

After the diagnosis and after becoming very strict on my gluten-free diet, within 6 months my thyroid numbers went down to normal again (I had my thyroid tested at the same time as my celiac blood test, when it was still going up, and twice more after diagnosis. It didn't start to go down until the second testing.)

So I wasn't diagnosed with hypothyroidism, so I never started medication, but the celiac disease seemed to have some kind of affect on my thyroid.

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I am not a good one about going to the doctor and getting my numbers checked. I do have a couple thyroid nodules and a cyst. Thyroid nodules are not unusual and really are more of the norm than the exception. And most of the time they are benign. I did get an FNA (fine needle aspiration) on one nodule. No problem, didn't really hurt. The doc told me he uses a smaller needle than most docs so it doesn't hurt.

Anyway, I had my thyroid numbers checked several times and they were always ok per the docs. But I started taking glandular thyroid anyway to see if it would help me. And it did. So I take it every week now, not every day but at least every other day. I tried stopping it but my joints would start hurting after a while, and stopped hurting when I started it again.

I take Natural Sources raw thyroid. It's available at several places on line. My sister tried it but she stopped because she said it made her heart race. It doesn't do that to me though.

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This exact question is what caused my daughter to be diagnosed with celiac. Her antibodies are off the chart. Supposed to be below 35 and she was 2800. She has been on meds for 4 years that control the hormones and her blood work for her levels are normal. However, her antibodies are still ragingly attacking her thryoid. I asked the pediatrician if going gluten free would help that. (I had read that) The doctor said, "You don't want to do that unless she has celiac. It is a very hard diet to maintain. But since they go together, I'll test her." And voila....the blood test showed celiac and so did the biopsy. No celiac symptoms whatsoever. They even tested her for celiac 4 years ago but it was negative. So she had hashis first. We just had repeat blood work done after 5 months of gluten free. Her levels went UP! She is now 2900. So going gluten free has not helped her in 5 months. I am hoping that in the long run, they will go down but right now...they won't. I had read that they would go to normal in 6 months but not for us.

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I was diagnosed with ceoliac before hashimotos but when I look back on my bloodwork I really had Hashimotos at the same time. My antibody levels are >13000u/ml (meant to be less than 60). My thyroid levels are now completely within normal levels after being mostly gluten-free but the doctor says at some stage my levels will decline and I'll need meds. He said some people have Hashimotos and will stay stable all their life but due to my antibodies being so high he thinks I'll definitely be one of the ones to go downhill.

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You could ask your doctor about immune suppressants. They can have bad affects if taken long term but they might help cool things down in the short term. Just a thought, I don't know if they would help the Hashimoto's long term or not.

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How long did it take you to get your antibodies back down to normal after going gluten free? My daughters actually went up after 6 months. Not much but still up. Someone else here said 6 years before theirs were normal. I just hope they go down period. I want to prove to the pediatrician that gluten free helps. She is still skeptical.

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This exact question is what caused my daughter to be diagnosed with celiac. Her antibodies are off the chart. Supposed to be below 35 and she was 2800. She has been on meds for 4 years that control the hormones and her blood work for her levels are normal. However, her antibodies are still ragingly attacking her thryoid. I asked the pediatrician if going gluten free would help that. (I had read that) The doctor said, "You don't want to do that unless she has celiac. It is a very hard diet to maintain. But since they go together, I'll test her." And voila....the blood test showed celiac and so did the biopsy. No celiac symptoms whatsoever. They even tested her for celiac 4 years ago but it was negative. So she had hashis first. We just had repeat blood work done after 5 months of gluten free. Her levels went UP! She is now 2900. So going gluten free has not helped her in 5 months. I am hoping that in the long run, they will go down but right now...they won't. I had read that they would go to normal in 6 months but not for us.

This is the kind of stuff that makes me wonder why anyone listens to doctors......the reason your daughter has high antibodies is because of gluten ingestion. This is why I know she had Celiac first, not Hashi's. My antibodies were off the charts also and never came down until I went strictly gluten free......and that took another 6 years. Antibodies only stay high if the aggravating factor to the thyroid is still present, which is gluten. The fact that her antibodies were that high consistently means your doctor missed her Celiac diagnosis, big time. AMA physicians only believe blood work, they see nothing else as far as symptoms. Most people who believe they are asymptomatic are really not.....they just do not realize how far reaching symptoms can be. Children sometimes present with atypical symptoms also. It is not normal at all for a 7 year old to develop Hashi's with thyroid antibodies that high....there is a root cause. This is the type of treatment that is common today. Her antibodies will come down, eventually, but stop believing what these people are telling you. People are different and you never know how long it will take for them to come down. Gluten ingestion will directly affect her thyroid so be strict with the diet.

As far as any doctor saying the diet should only be considered for Celiac and that it's a hard diet to maintain.....that's a crock, if ever I heard one. There is a learning curve but at no time have I ever considered this diet hard to maintain. You somewhat lose convenience but there is plenty to eat on this diet that would satisfy even a child. Remember that it's your

perception and attitude towards this diet that will have the biggest impact on your daughter.

I have a fabulous recipe for peanut butter cookies if you want it..... ;) There isn't much that I haven't been able to make gluten free and have it taste just as good. This is a much easier time to be gluten free!

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The very first appointment with the endo, she had her tested for celiac. I have never even heard of it. So I know that endo suspected something but dismissed it when the blood work was fine. They never even told me to try gluten free. I am being very strict but it makes me wonder since they are not going down! I dont' want to wait 6 years. I want to snap my fingers and make them go down NOW! I hope they go down so I can show the pediatrician that it works. Thanks for telling your story.

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The very first appointment with the endo, she had her tested for celiac. I have never even heard of it. So I know that endo suspected something but dismissed it when the blood work was fine. They never even told me to try gluten free. I am being very strict but it makes me wonder since they are not going down! I dont' want to wait 6 years. I want to snap my fingers and make them go down NOW! I hope they go down so I can show the pediatrician that it works. Thanks for telling your story.

Yes, I know you want your daughter healed right away but relax.....she will heal fine but it will take time. The AMA have made you fearful and they are very good at that. I was 46 at time of diagnosis and I had Celiac symptoms for most of my entire life and they missed it. That is very common for blood work to come back negative in many people and then the doctors will dismiss it.

They ignore a lot of things that other Celiac's see. I healed well but it did take time. I was not sick the entire time but to get numbers back into the normal range takes time. It may not take 6 years for your daughter to heal as she is young but if it does, don't sweat it. She'll lead a normal life! ;) The important thing is that you are on the right track now.

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Hmm my antibodies were all normal...and...i had an ultrasound..all the doctor told me was "no suspicious nodules found". Dunno if that means no nodules or just none to make them think cancer?

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    • Depression / anxiety issues
      i am wondering if those who get that initial "rush" of a day or twos relief of symptoms are "flying" on adrenaline?  wonder about adrenal fatigue?  not sure that is considered a real thing in western medicine... just a thought.  and you return of sym suggest a glutening.  Anything new in the diet?  even a new package of an already  checked product?  soap and shampoo need to be checked, or used very carefully.  is wife still eating gluten?  if so make sure sh is not bringing it to you.  kisses are nice, but make sure she brushes first, lol skipping products that are "made in shared buildings"  for at least a while. take the B12 on an empty stomache
    • Depression / anxiety issues
      Excellent. The chances are your body won't absorb some of this however so get as many good B sources in your diet as possible in addition. Get some sunshine as well, I know it does rain sometimes in Melbourne but believe me on that score you do a lot better than the poms.   Try and note these positive things, it's so easy when you're down to forget them. There will be more to come. Imagine yourself climbing a mountain. There are points at which you have to travel laterally or even down in order to follow the right path but your overall trajectory is upwards. You're actually lucky to have found it now at 28 with so much time ahead for healing and enjoying the fruits of it.  For me the gluten reaction is the initial cause of the depression but once that's removed it doesn't automatically lift like magic. Whilst the brain fog lifted soon on gluten-free diet, (there was a physical perceptible feeling in my head whilst I had that, a kind of thickness sort of like wearing a diving mask all the time that distances you from the world), the longer term depression isn't so easily shifted. I think this is because there are negative pathways that have been reinforced over many years. That's what living in a constant state of anxiety can do. It wrecks your self esteem which isn't magically repaired as your diet changes, sadly! As my physical symptoms lifted but I still felt depression, if on a different level, I realised I'd have to heal my mind as well as my gut. So I'm currently seeing a counsellor and it is helping. Not there yet though Yes I also get this and the mental side for me is also by far the worst side of it. I used to think I may die every time I got the chest pains but that wasn't as bad as feeling like shit 24/7 or having to fake a good time when feeling awful inside.  The single best thing about realising my gluten problem was that it explained that the underlying cause of that depression and anxiety was physical, not a defect of character, just some bad luck in the makeup of my gut and immune system. Hope that knowledge helps you also, when the anxiety strikes recognise it for what it is. A misdirected fight or flight response to an internal attack on your body.  Have a look at some cognitive behavioural therapy techniqes for challenging negative thoughts, that may be helpful? CBT has a very good success rate here in UK, better than anti depressants or talking therapy I think and it focuses on the practical,.  As you realise there's a load of bulls**t in society about how we view and discuss mental health. Don't buy into it. A lot of 'strong' people out there are simply bottling up their suffering through misguided pride. If people stigmatise you they're doing you the favour of letting you know they're not worth bothering with.  I got a lot of support on here when I was in your position and I'm sure you will too. I wish you the best of luck and I'm sure you'll be seeing more improvements in the weeks and months to come.      
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      As you doubtless know now, there are so many ways celiac can present, here's as big a list as I could find online. It would probably be quicker to list what isn't a factor For me personally, nausua, check, left sided back hip pain (my laymans theory here is that celiac is affecting the sciatic nerve which runs from lower back down leg) , check, chest pain also - but for me this comes in short bursts more I guess like heartburn - I thought I was having heart attacks... Check to the rest too... And, for what its worth, other things like being prone to bronchial infection oh hell yes.  I'm currently in the glutened / affected by something group myself so I can only share the advice I've been given. Start a food diary and see if you can track down anything diet related that may be affecting you. Eat as clean as you can, ease up on alcohol, just try and give yourself the best chance of recovery. Have a google of 'heal my gut' diet tips too, you're in the recovery phase at the moment. All the best, at least there's comfort in knowing you're not alone!   Matt  
    • Depression / anxiety issues
      Thanks for the advice Matt, I will be sure to take it all onboard. It's really good to talk to others that have had similar experiences. I'm currently upping my b12 and also taking a additional (gluten free) multi and b complex, also omega 3s and Vitiam D3. I had been noticing small improvements that I forgot to mention in my previous post. I noticed that I fall asleep now much easier than before going gluten-free, I also have moments where my body feels more calm, then blood in my stool has stopped I haven't had any in 10 weeks. My mind was constantly fixated on negative thoughts for the past 2 years and they slowly began lifting from all day negative thoughts to maybe half a day of negative thoughts if that makes sense, but this pass week and a half they have come back, I'm also finding my self very nervous again around other people I'm hoping this will pass. The anxiety / depression is the worst symptom for me I would not wish it on my worst enemy, if that went away I would be the happiest man in the world. I found it very hard to talk to people about my mental health issues at work before I lost my job as I found some people stigmatise me and don't understand or really care, but I figure i don't need narrow minded people like that anyway, and as a man its hard to open up but my wife is very supportive and encouraging. Thanks again for the advice really apricate it
    • Depression / anxiety issues
      G'day Chris and welcome to the forum. You have found what I think is the single best resource on the web for advice, support and understanding for this condition. There is so much info here it's difficult to know where to start, but that's what this thread is for, please check it out. I think I got the recommendation for 'Real life with Celiac Disease' by Dennis and Leffler there, I'll second that, there's a lot of very useful info in there which helps to answer a lot of your questions. May be useful for your partner also. Chapters are short and informative so you can dip in and out.  There will doubtless be more advice to come from others with more experience but there's a few things which occur. Firstly, 10 weeks is very early days. Your body has been under an assault for many, many years. Your immune system has been working overtime and like so many others you've only reached diagnosis after reaching a crisis point. You are now healing but it won't be instant and it won't be without ups and downs, speedier and slower phases.  Second, being strict on gluten is essential, but it's only one part of the puzzle. You also need to eat really healthily and try to heal your gut. As you remove gluten you may find that your body starts telling you that other foods are also an issue. Don't panic, it doesn't mean that will always be the case. But you need to approach the next 6 months as a period where you're giving your body the easiest ride possible. That may mean taking probiotics, bone broths or it could also mean avoiding dairy or other foods, at least until your body has had a chance to heal. If you think you may still be getting gluteny effects keeping a food diary, noting what you eat, when and how you feel would help to track down any further issues.  I too battled through the anxiety, had an all too brief moment of bliss as the diet kicked in, then faced a bumpier recovery period in the weeks that followed. It gets easier but it's still difficult for me from time to time. I tried to articulate some of this recently here, it's a long read but maybe some of it will strike a chord. It will get better and you will become better equipped to deal with it. If you're like me you'll find other things getting better over time that you would never have thought to connect to gluten. Now, I've been exceedlingly nice here and not mentioned the England Rugby drubbing but I can feel my self control beginning to slip. So I'll leave it there   Matt
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      Hi There, I don't know if there is a place for videos in the forum. I just watched "The Truth About Gluten" I think it is a good video. I would like to share it somewhere but don't know where it should go. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
      Here is the link if you have never watched it.
      https://youtu.be/IU6jVEwpjnE Thank You,
      Larry
      · 2 replies
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