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Going To Try Giving Up Lactose, Too
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I have been really dreading what I fear is reality - that I am intolerant to gluten and lactose. I know a lot of us are. :( Giving up both will be much harder. I am not a big milk drinker, but the other stuff - yogurt, ice cream, chocolate (??), um... what else is dairy? Butter? But the hardest for me is cheese. :(

So I ask... meats, veggies, fruits, seeds and nuts ... is that my new diet??

Is there a good place to go to get menu ideas?

Thanks all. Sigh. :(

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I have been really dreading what I fear is reality - that I am intolerant to gluten and lactose. I know a lot of us are. :( Giving up both will be much harder. I am not a big milk drinker, but the other stuff - yogurt, ice cream, chocolate (??), um... what else is dairy? Butter? But the hardest for me is cheese. :(

So I ask... meats, veggies, fruits, seeds and nuts ... is that my new diet??

Is there a good place to go to get menu ideas?

Thanks all. Sigh. :(

I feel for you. I am going to an allergist next week and I will die if they say I need to avoid milk products! :( I live for ice cream and cheese! :D

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Don't despair! It's hard sometimes but there are some good substitutes. I love almond milk and almond milk ice cream. Very good. Smart Balance has a good butter substitute. Cheese can be tough but Daiya is ok. You might get dairy back later too.

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I heard that people with underactive thyroids should not drink almond milk. I kind of feel like that started my problems back in February. What other options do I have other than Lactaid which isn't good for me anymore.

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You are aware that lactose intolerance is different than dairy intolerance, right? If you are lactose intolerant, you can usually have all the delicious dairy goodies you want, you just need to take lactaid (or similar) tablets in order to digest it. Lactose is milk sugar, the enzyme needed to digest it is lacTASE, and that enzyme is produced on the tips of the villi. Since celiacs have damaged villi, we often can't produce enough lactase enzyme on our own, but can take pills that contain it instead.

Now...if your are dairy intolerant, more specifically CASEIN (milk protein) intolerant- well then your screwed. Casein closely resembles gliadin, and the body often mistakes one for the other. So many celiacs who eat casein feel exactly like they have been glutened! So unfair!

As someone who is also casein intolerant, the best I can say is, you get used to it. Coconut ice cream is fantastic, daiya shredded "cheese" is a decent substitute in tacos or on pizza- almond milk is an acquired taste, but once you acquire it, you love it!

Our family used to drink milk at every meal, put cheese and butter on everything...it was a rough transistion. Plus, casein is as ever present in processed foods as gluten is! So we just gave them up altogether.

A lot of gluten free cookbooks are also dairy free for the reason that the two sensitivities go hand in hand. Unfortunately, a lot of recipes substitute soy, which is also a big problem for a lot of celiacs! Coconut and almond milk can generally be substituted instead though.

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I heard that people with underactive thyroids should not drink almond milk. I kind of feel like that started my problems back in February. What other options do I have other than Lactaid which isn't good for me anymore.

I heard that about soy milk. But never almond milk. That would be interesting to research more on that.

As far as soy, there a bunch of interesting things to read about: http://search.mercola.com/search/Pages/results.aspx?k=soy (there are other sources out there as well)

If you can find anything about the almond milk please let us know. :)

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You are aware that lactose intolerance is different than dairy intolerance, right? If you are lactose intolerant, you can usually have all the delicious dairy goodies you want, you just need to take lactaid (or similar) tablets in order to digest it. Lactose is milk sugar, the enzyme needed to digest it is lacTASE, and that enzyme is produced on the tips of the villi. Since celiacs have damaged villi, we often can't produce enough lactase enzyme on our own, but can take pills that contain it instead.

Now...if your are dairy intolerant, more specifically CASEIN (milk protein) intolerant- well then your screwed. Casein closely resembles gliadin, and the body often mistakes one for the other. So many celiacs who eat casein feel exactly like they have been glutened! So unfair!

As someone who is also casein intolerant, the best I can say is, you get used to it. Coconut ice cream is fantastic, daiya shredded "cheese" is a decent substitute in tacos or on pizza- almond milk is an acquired taste, but once you acquire it, you love it!

Our family used to drink milk at every meal, put cheese and butter on everything...it was a rough transistion. Plus, casein is as ever present in processed foods as gluten is! So we just gave them up altogether.

A lot of gluten free cookbooks are also dairy free for the reason that the two sensitivities go hand in hand. Unfortunately, a lot of recipes substitute soy, which is also a big problem for a lot of celiacs! Coconut and almond milk can generally be substituted instead though.

Hmm, gosh I have no clue. I know that when I consume anything dairy, whether cooked or uncooked, it causes burning and bloating and similar issues to gluten/wheat. I have always just sort of ignored it. But now without wheat, it's pretty apparent dairy is causig troubles. Earlier in the day is immediately nauseating but later in the day tends to be more of a lower GI thing. I had a drinkable yogurt this morning with some scrambled eggs and was almost instantly burning and churning and bloated.

What do you guys think? The gluten/lactose combo tends to send me immediately to a bathroom with a spastic colon!! Ouch!

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I would guess it is likely casein intolerance. Yogurt is lower in lactose, and would not be AS LIKELY to cause such a reaction. Same with cheese. You mentioned taking Lactaid before- did it relieve the symptoms?

If so, it may be lactose intolerance, in which case once your gut heals and your villi grow back, you should be fine with dairy.

You also can be both lactose and casein intolerant, in which case lactaid would maybe help with the bloating and gas, but you would still feel awful.

The only way to be sure is to go on a strict casein free diet for about 6 months, then try reintroducing it and see what happens! If it is just lactose intolerance,m by 6 months you may have enough villi regrowth that you can have dairy again!

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Sounds like you need to cut it out of your diet for right now regardless. Once you start to heal you might be able to re-introduce it back in. But many of us have to give it awhile before we do. I personally had to wait 6 months before trying it and now after that even I still have on and off issues especially due to colitis (so my doctor says)Going off of it again.

I am not sure if you can specify right now to call it a lactose intolerance or casein intolerance, but I would give your body a break from it for awhile and let yourself heal, then maybe in 6 months try and if still it persists wait a while longer and test again. And if you can't over a long period of time it might be a issue permanently.

Another option is after some time passes and you try it again and have an issue you could try a lac-taid type pill and see if it helps...if so you have your answer on which it is.

Feel better!

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Cutting out dairy is much easier and cheaper than cutting out wheat/gluten.

There is no reason to drink milk...ever. Water can be subbed in most baking applications. We cook our pizza toppings in with a slice of bacon and you never notice there is no cheese. I can go on.

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I have been really dreading what I fear is reality - that I am intolerant to gluten and lactose. I know a lot of us are. :( Giving up both will be much harder. I am not a big milk drinker, but the other stuff - yogurt, ice cream, chocolate (??), um... what else is dairy? Butter? But the hardest for me is cheese. :(

So I ask... meats, veggies, fruits, seeds and nuts ... is that my new diet??

Is there a good place to go to get menu ideas?

Thanks all. Sigh. :(

Wheat and dairy are two foods, out of every edible item out there. We just live in a culture that is over reliant on these two items. So, other things to ea that you have a good chance of finding in my pantry in the past six weeks

Meats - chicken, beef, pork, fish, shellfish, egg

Fruits - apples, oranges, peaches, apricots, grapes, berries, bananas, pears, avocados, mangoes, limes

Vegetables - green beans, sugar snap peas, tomatoes, onions, garlic, carrots, bell peppers, lettuce, zucchini, bok choy, cabbage, kale, English peas, cauliflower, broccoli, ginger, potatoes, sweet potatoes, beets

Grains - corn, rice, buckwheat, quinoa, millet, amaranth, gluten free oatmeal if you tolerate it

Nuts and seeds - almonds, walnuts, cashews, flax seeds, chia seeds, almond butter, peanut butter

Legumes - beans of all kinds, lentils, tofu (ok, it was odd I have this one in the fridge at the moment, but I do)

Miscellaneous - cococnut milk, orange juice, gluten-free tamari, spices, gluten-free crackers, gluten-free cereal, rice cakes, condiments, Udi's bread, gluten-free baking supplied (especially almond flour and arrowroot flour)

We cook a lot of stir-fries, grilled meat/veggies, stews, soups, salads, etc.

What sort of foods do you normally eat?

BTW, if you only think you are lactose intolerant, you probably wouldn't need to give up (many) cheeses or yogurts. The cultures in yogurt (and other cultured dairy) consumes the milk sugar. You can also take over the counter lactase (the enzyme that digests lactose), and even purchase lactose free milk. Lactose is a separate issue from being casein intolerant, where the issue is the milk protein. If that is the CSS for you, some people find that goat dairy is sufficiently different (it has a a different ratio of casein subtypes) that they can tolerate it. There may be some experimenting you want to do on the matter if youre not sure exactly which it is.

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Some ideas in the meal threads below. There is also a recipe section of the forum with a couple recipes. A couple of thousand that is. :)

When you go gluten-free it might be a good idea to stop all dairy for a while. Also stop all sugar and caffeine and alcohol and soy. And processed foods. Cook all your foods at home from whole ingredients. Leave the preservatives, fillers, food colorings, antibiotics, emulsifiers, homogenizers and viscosity adjusters etc on the store shelf. A celiac gut is a sensitive gut, and it may not like all those things.

I know that is a lot of change, but you don't have to do it all at once. Work your way up to it over time and adjust your diet and cooking/eating habits as you go. Try to eat simpler, whole foods and less pre-made "stuff". Look for foods that have 3 for fewer ingredients.

After you have eaten "clean" food for a while you will get to know your body better and how it reacts to foods. You may not have problems with some of these things either. But it is good to give yourself a break from the chemical influx sometimes IMHO.

But change does take time and none of us can do it overnight. It is only the gluten that you need to really get rid of to start, and the dairy. you can test for casein reactions after a while, but until your gut settles down it will be hard to be sure it is a valid reaction. Hard cheeses are mostly lactose free. So if you don't react to hard cheeses you are probably ok with casein.

FAQ Celiac com

http://www.celiac.com/gluten-free/forum-7/announcement-3-frequently-asked-questions-about-celiac-disease/

What's For Breakfast Today?

What Did You Have For Lunch Today?

What Are You Cooking Tonight?

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I have been really dreading what I fear is reality - that I am intolerant to gluten and lactose. I know a lot of us are. :( Giving up both will be much harder. I am not a big milk drinker, but the other stuff - yogurt, ice cream, chocolate (??), um... what else is dairy? Butter? But the hardest for me is cheese. :(

So I ask... meats, veggies, fruits, seeds and nuts ... is that my new diet??

Is there a good place to go to get menu ideas?

Thanks all. Sigh. :(

I sympathize with you!! I have gone gluten free, but if I have to give up cheese I swear I will starve to death. I cannot even imagine it.

I have never been a milk drinker, never liked it much, but cheese is another story.

((hugs)) to you, and a lot of sympathy.

you are asking for help in the right place though, I am sure that you will find many replies and suggestions here!

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I've really enjoyed Carol Fenster's cookbooks. I have "1000 gluten-free," and there are MANY MANY MANY selections in there without dairy, and vegetarian entries are noted as well. I believe that every recipe has dairy free alternatives listed for the dairy-full ones. I have a friend who has a dairy allergy, and made a chicken shwarma meal without the yogurt. I used oil instead. It was still delicious, and I was happy to make something that my friend could eat without worry. Diary free sucks when you realize no cheese, but if you are celiac, it could be temporary! That's what kept me going! Now, cheese, yogurt, ice cream are not a problem. It did take about 4-5 months, but it was worth it to not feel awful anymore. Best of luck to you, you can make it! Even if you end up dairy free for life, you can still make really good food. Pork tenderlion with sage and mustard (and salt and pepper) sprinkled on, with a sweet fruit sauce is one of my favorites! And tonight I'm having a veggie stir-fry.

-Daisy

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I have been really dreading what I fear is reality - that I am intolerant to gluten and lactose. I know a lot of us are. :( Giving up both will be much harder. I am not a big milk drinker, but the other stuff - yogurt, ice cream, chocolate (??), um... what else is dairy? Butter? But the hardest for me is cheese. :(

So I ask... meats, veggies, fruits, seeds and nuts ... is that my new diet??

Is there a good place to go to get menu ideas?

Thanks all. Sigh. :(

Do you know if you are having a problem with lactose (milk sugar) or casein (milk protein)? The reason I say this is because there are dairy products with little to no lactose out there. Some hard cheeses, some yogurts, and butter should have negligible to no lactose. Also, very dark chocolate with no dairy added would only have trace amounts of lactose assuming it is processed on the same lines as milk containing chocolates. But all dairy products will have casein so problems with the casein creates bigger problems. Additionally, if you are having a problem with the casein, sometimes the milk from sheep or goat milk will be alright.

I am unable to tolerate cow dairy but my problem is with the casein. I have no problem with sheep or goat dairy. However, a couple of years ago when my gut was very messed up from chronic gluten ingestion through CC, I could no longer seem to tolerate any dairy at all, and also became lactose intolerant. I had to remove all dairy. About a year or so ago, I successfully re-added yogurt to my diet, and a couple of weeks ago, I re-added goat milk. I know I am fine with the yogurt. So far no problems with the milk, but I do not assume I am fine with anything new until I have eaten it for 3 months without issues. So all hope may not be lost - your gut may just need some time to heal. :)

Otherwise, perhaps you may want to look into milk substitutes such as almond milk and the like?

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I like canned coconut milk so much as a coffee creamer I didn't switch back, even after I regained the ability to have some dairy, such as cheese.

Organic dairy sits better with me. B)

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You have all been so incredibly helpful. I am guessing this is not lactose as yogurt and cheeses are culprits. What about butter? Is butter an issue typically?

I am convinced - I will give up dairy for 6 mths and then try to reintroduce it. I have a sneaking suspicion, however, given the info here, that this is a casein and wheat thing.

Another question for you guys... do you find you have issues with corn? I have been eating corn tortillas and corn tortilla chips (just corn, oil and salt on ingredients) and popcorn - but I usually pair each of them up with dairy. So unsure what is causing the issue.

Would you guys suggest eliminating corn, dairy and wheat and then perhaps reintroducing corn first after a few weeks? Does popcorn cause problems ... or is it more likely the butter and my dairy issues? Curious what you think. I did so well this week but am ill today with bloating, gas and digestive issues (orange mucus bm, etc) and am not sure what did it. I have been logging my foods and can't find any wheat in there... but have been consuming dairy like crazy the past two days (been ok, mostly) but have been very nauseated after eating ... and then after popcorn last night, feeling ucky today. Just having a hard time pinpointing it.

More than likely it is dairy ... I am guessing.

Six months. Giving up dairy along with the wheat. Deep breath. I REALLY appreciate the time you all took to share with me, and I really appreciate the information you have given me. It is so, so helpful.

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Butter is the "distilled" fat of the raw milk, so technically it has very little casein protein in it. Some people use ghee, which is clarified butter which has been further cooked to just be purer. Others just switch to other things such as olive oil, coconut oil, palm shortening, lard, that "Smart Balance" margarine stuff, etc.

I am not good with certain cheeses. I believe it is a combination of what they were giving the poor cows in terms of medications, and the other things they may add to cheese, such as artificial coloring and even preservatives in some of the string and shredded cheeses. Figured this out when I could eat this imported hard cheese from grass fed cows, but reacted to domestic cheddar. In the beginning, I also was not good at all with yogurts, until I figured out that different manufacturers use different processes and those yogurts with thickeners, even dry powdered milk, besides starch, were going to get me every time, irregardless of whether or not it was a supposed gluten free item. There again, there is the issue of what were the cows being forced to consume, and I don't do the milk from the cows with the dairy hormones, because those cows are more stressed and more likely to be medicated. I can do the plain fage greek yogurt now.

I don't have issues with fresh corn, but I have had a lot of issues with processed corn products and have hit some heavy cross contamination in a lot of what was supposed to be "safe." Even in manufacturers which use good allergy safety and don't process other things and clean the lines carefully, there is still going to be a problem with the exposure to harvest equipment and storage facilities which may have been used to process wheat, barley, or oats. I call this the "random tortilla reaction." :angry: I don't even TRY to do processed corn chips anymore since getting so sick on some that were prominently labeled "gluten free." I don't do much commercially made corn tortillas anymore, unless I can say, "it's okay if I don't feel optimum tomorrow, in case I react." Plenty of people eat that stuff with no problems, great for them, but some of us are just not going to be successful with it. I can't do any of the Bob's Red Mill corn products now, because they are cc'd with something, probably oats.

You are not going to be able to figure this out until you give up both for awhile, then re introduce one at a time.

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Do you know if you are having a problem with lactose (milk sugar) or casein (milk protein)? The reason I say this is because there are dairy products with little to no lactose out there. Some hard cheeses, some yogurts, and butter should have negligible to no lactose. Also, very dark chocolate with no dairy added would only have trace amounts of lactose assuming it is processed on the same lines as milk containing chocolates. But all dairy products will have casein so problems with the casein creates bigger problems. Additionally, if you are having a problem with the casein, sometimes the milk from sheep or goat milk will be alright.

I am unable to tolerate cow dairy but my problem is with the casein. I have no problem with sheep or goat dairy. However, a couple of years ago when my gut was very messed up from chronic gluten ingestion through CC, I could no longer seem to tolerate any dairy at all, and also became lactose intolerant. I had to remove all dairy. About a year or so ago, I successfully re-added yogurt to my diet, and a couple of weeks ago, I re-added goat milk. I know I am fine with the yogurt. So far no problems with the milk, but I do not assume I am fine with anything new until I have eaten it for 3 months without issues. So all hope may not be lost - your gut may just need some time to heal. :)

Otherwise, perhaps you may want to look into milk substitutes such as almond milk and the like?

Good to hear that you are doing well with goat milk. I have been confused about dairy for a while and have just had to give it up. I've been staring at goat's milk trying to work up the nerve to try it. Maybe I'll give it a shot.
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Butter is the "distilled" fat of the raw milk, so technically it has very little casein protein in it. Some people use ghee, which is clarified butter which has been further cooked to just be purer. Others just switch to other things such as olive oil, coconut oil, palm shortening, lard, that "Smart Balance" margarine stuff, etc.

I am not good with certain cheeses. I believe it is a combination of what they were giving the poor cows in terms of medications, and the other things they may add to cheese, such as artificial coloring and even preservatives in some of the string and shredded cheeses. Figured this out when I could eat this imported hard cheese from grass fed cows, but reacted to domestic cheddar. In the beginning, I also was not good at all with yogurts, until I figured out that different manufacturers use different processes and those yogurts with thickeners, even dry powdered milk, besides starch, were going to get me every time, irregardless of whether or not it was a supposed gluten free item. There again, there is the issue of what were the cows being forced to consume, and I don't do the milk from the cows with the dairy hormones, because those cows are more stressed and more likely to be medicated. I can do the plain fage greek yogurt now.

I don't have issues with fresh corn, but I have had a lot of issues with processed corn products and have hit some heavy cross contamination in a lot of what was supposed to be "safe." Even in manufacturers which use good allergy safety and don't process other things and clean the lines carefully, there is still going to be a problem with the exposure to harvest equipment and storage facilities which may have been used to process wheat, barley, or oats. I call this the "random tortilla reaction." :angry: I don't even TRY to do processed corn chips anymore since getting so sick on some that were prominently labeled "gluten free." I don't do much commercially made corn tortillas anymore, unless I can say, "it's okay if I don't feel optimum tomorrow, in case I react." Plenty of people eat that stuff with no problems, great for them, but some of us are just not going to be successful with it. I can't do any of the Bob's Red Mill corn products now, because they are cc'd with something, probably oats.

You are not going to be able to figure this out until you give up both for awhile, then re introduce one at a time.

You are amazing - thank you so much!!! I have so much to learn about all of this. I really appreciate it!

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You have all been so incredibly helpful. I am guessing this is not lactose as yogurt and cheeses are culprits. What about butter? Is butter an issue typically?

For lactose, what will make you react kind of depends on where you are, actually, for yogurt, cheese and the like, really.

If you are in the USA, reacting to yogurt and cheeses is actually not a great measure of lactose intolerance. Here, the more common methods of making cheese and yogurt is to add thickeners, such as pectin, gums, or milk powder. This usually means that the company production method doesn't allow the bacteria to completely consume the lactose in order to thicken the product. Also, the milk powder itself has lactose that it's adding back in, if used.

In Europe, however, I understand that it is less common to add these thickeners in. So if you can find imported cheeses and yogurts in the USA, that can be a better gauge of whether it's lactose or full dairy. In 6 months, that is, when you reintroduce it.

Another question for you guys... do you find you have issues with corn? I have been eating corn tortillas and corn tortilla chips (just corn, oil and salt on ingredients) and popcorn - but I usually pair each of them up with dairy. So unsure what is causing the issue.

Would you guys suggest eliminating corn, dairy and wheat and then perhaps reintroducing corn first after a few weeks?

If it were me, I wouldn't, mostly because to completely eliminate corn is very hard, as an unbelievable number of ingredients have it as a derivative. Eliminating one thing at a time might be easier on you, food-wise, you know?

When it comes to what you can eat? Asia and Africa are your friends. :D A lot of foods from various Asian and African countries can be approximated with Western ingredients and were gluten free originally. Or in other words, you won't need to buy a lot of expensive substitution ingredients, if you go this route. Ethiopian and Japanese recipes have been lovely when we've tried them. We chose lots of lentil and meat dishes from Ethiopia and fish, chicken and rice dishes from Japan.

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