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Some gluten-free Bread May Not Be Gluten Free!


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#46 kareng

 
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Posted 21 July 2012 - 03:19 PM

He also speaks of having a reaction to Doritio's in the post. Many Lay's products are made on shared lines so some of us do have to avoid them from a CC standpoint. That is why Lay's gives two lists. One of items made that are known to be gluten free and another list, a very long one, of their products made that have a CC risk. A reaction to CC is not the same as having a celiac reaction to corn.


Not objecting to that. Don't know about the Doritos in Australia back then. Could be cc at the factory. Just saying, she's not really a good medical resource.
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#47 ravenwoodglass

 
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Posted 21 July 2012 - 03:27 PM

Not objecting to that. Don't know about the Doritos in Australia back then. Could be cc at the factory. Just saying, she's not really a good medical resource.


Just to be clear the list I refer to is the US one. Processing and products may be different in Australia.
  • 1
Courage does not always roar, sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying
"I will try again tommorrow" (Mary Anne Radmacher)


celiac 49 years - Misdiagnosed for 45
Blood tested and repeatedly negative
Diagnosed by Allergist with elimination diet and diagnosis confirmed by GI in 2002
Misdiagnoses for 15 years were IBS-D, ataxia, migraines, anxiety, depression, fibromyalgia, parathesias, arthritis, livedo reticularis, hairloss, premature menopause, osteoporosis, kidney damage, diverticulosis, prediabetes and ulcers, dermatitis herpeformis
All bold resoved or went into remission with proper diagnosis of Celiac November 2002
Some residual nerve damage remains as of 2006- this has continued to resolve after eliminating soy in 2007

Mother died of celiac related cancer at 56
Twin brother died as a result of autoimmune liver destruction at age 15

Children 2 with Ulcers, GERD, Depression, , 1 with DH, 1 with severe growth stunting (male adult 5 feet)both finally diagnosed Celiac through blood testing and 1 with endo 6 months after Mom


Positive to Soy and Casien also Aug 2007

Gluten Sensitivity Gene Test Aug 2007
HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 1 0303

HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 2 0303

Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 3,3 (Subtype 9,9)

#48 DogWalkerNYC

 
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Posted 21 July 2012 - 03:31 PM

You seem to not understand the word gluten, maybe? That was what Tom was trying to tell you. We missuse the word gluten when we say "gluten free diet". All grains have gluten. The types of gluten have different names and are different. However, it has become the custom to call the gluten types in wheat, rye and barley 'gluten".

Your article mentions allergies. Celiac is not an allergy but some Celiacs have a wheat allergy, too. My BIL has a wheat allergy but not Celiac.


As you probably know I am new to this whole thing. I'm coming to you as the newbie I described earlier. I am told to maintain a gluten-free diet and that it's OK to include corn in my diet. All this I understand. No problem.

So I eat corn and do my best to only eat acceptable foods. Why am I not told, either on the celiac.com site or the mall site that corn has a long history of being controversial. Doesn't celiac.com owe it to me and to all of us to at the very least mention that some foods are somewhere in the middle between acceptable and not acceptable?

Why is corn on the acceptable list if it may or may not be based on the person?

One of my first posts in this forum was to ask why the research mentioned gluten sensitivity, gluten intolerance, gluten allergy and celiac disease as being different levels of the same disease. Yet the first line on the celiac website says that celiac disease is also known as gluten intolerance.

There just doesn't seem to be one answer to any particular question. When I asked one of the moderators about the difference in sensitivity, intolerance, celiac he implied the site was written a long time ago and that was the feeling at the time.

I don't want to base my decisions on data that was written so long ago that it's not even accurate. I feel like this is a condition that's in the process of becoming. There is not one authority giving me a straight answer. This is our health and our lives and there is not one authority that agrees with another.

If something is iffy I want to know about it from the experts, not from trial and error, after I'm sick and miserable.

I feel like some people here take the label and run with it. 'I'm celiac, I'm celiac'. How many people have asked how long it takes to heal, etc. Some are suffering for a year, some longer. Are any of those people considering that food products they thought were safe maybe are not safe for them? Maybe they're only celiac because they're continuing to poison themselves.

Are any of them considering maybe corn is destroying their intestines, although it's on the 'Safe' list. I laugh at the comments that I have to take responsibility for my own health. Are these people who are constantly suffering taking responsibility or are they taking the word of a website that apparently hasn't been updated in a very long time.

I do not have time for this condition and I need to get rid of it. And I will do whatever it takes to make that happen. All I ask is that the experts I come to for advice offer me current, accurate advice and info. If not here I will find it elsewhere.
  • 0
Laura Grace

65 years old. Diagnosed with GERD at age 63. Started feeling bloated after eating bread & rolls in 2012. After doing online research ate gluten-free for a week & symptoms resolved. Symptoms returned when I glutened. That's good enough for me. Because testing is often inconclusive will not get tested. In 2012 had colonoscopy and endoscopy which showed no damage to the villi. In February, 2013 had capsule endoscopy which showed no damage to the villi or intestines. Diagnosed by gastroenterologist with 'probable non-Celiac sensitivity. Time to get serious before damage occurs.

#49 Jestgar

 
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Posted 21 July 2012 - 03:44 PM

Corn alone does not cause a Celiac reaction. Someone with a damaged intestine might react to anything. Corn is high on that 'anything' list, as is soy. casein, and some other things. If you read the posts on this site, you'll find that someone who mentions not feeling well after months of gluten-free gets two main types of advice: 1) check all your products/medicines/pet foods for wheat contamination. and 2) try an elimination diet/food diary/remove common problem proteins.
  • 7
"But then, in all honesty, if scientists don't play god, who will?"
- James Watson

My sources are unreliable, but their information is fascinating.
- Ashleigh Brilliant

Leap, and the net will appear.

#50 ravenwoodglass

 
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Posted 21 July 2012 - 03:48 PM

Why is corn on the acceptable list if it may or may not be based on the person?


Ya know I could say the same thing about soy. I would have healed faster if I had known in the beginning that I couldn't tolerate it but I didn't know and no one could tell me. It wasn't until I started making notes of ingredients on products that made me sick and saw that soy was the common denominator that I removed it and then had more good days than bad and then healed fully. It wasn't however a gluten reaction. After some time some of us can tell the difference between a reaction to gluten and our own reactions to what we may also be intolerant to. It does take time though. We don't get sick overnight and we don't heal overnight and no one can give us all the answers.
  • 5
Courage does not always roar, sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying
"I will try again tommorrow" (Mary Anne Radmacher)


celiac 49 years - Misdiagnosed for 45
Blood tested and repeatedly negative
Diagnosed by Allergist with elimination diet and diagnosis confirmed by GI in 2002
Misdiagnoses for 15 years were IBS-D, ataxia, migraines, anxiety, depression, fibromyalgia, parathesias, arthritis, livedo reticularis, hairloss, premature menopause, osteoporosis, kidney damage, diverticulosis, prediabetes and ulcers, dermatitis herpeformis
All bold resoved or went into remission with proper diagnosis of Celiac November 2002
Some residual nerve damage remains as of 2006- this has continued to resolve after eliminating soy in 2007

Mother died of celiac related cancer at 56
Twin brother died as a result of autoimmune liver destruction at age 15

Children 2 with Ulcers, GERD, Depression, , 1 with DH, 1 with severe growth stunting (male adult 5 feet)both finally diagnosed Celiac through blood testing and 1 with endo 6 months after Mom


Positive to Soy and Casien also Aug 2007

Gluten Sensitivity Gene Test Aug 2007
HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 1 0303

HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 2 0303

Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 3,3 (Subtype 9,9)

#51 DogWalkerNYC

 
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Posted 21 July 2012 - 03:49 PM

How do you know corn alone does not cause a celiac reaction? If you know that for a fact please publish your research. Until then I prefer to avoid corn until I can check the research of 'the product guy".
  • 0
Laura Grace

65 years old. Diagnosed with GERD at age 63. Started feeling bloated after eating bread & rolls in 2012. After doing online research ate gluten-free for a week & symptoms resolved. Symptoms returned when I glutened. That's good enough for me. Because testing is often inconclusive will not get tested. In 2012 had colonoscopy and endoscopy which showed no damage to the villi. In February, 2013 had capsule endoscopy which showed no damage to the villi or intestines. Diagnosed by gastroenterologist with 'probable non-Celiac sensitivity. Time to get serious before damage occurs.

#52 tom

 
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Posted 21 July 2012 - 03:52 PM

This is from National Digestive Diseases Information Clearinghouse, updated January 27, 2012. Is this recent enough for you?

"Some people with celiac disease show no improvement on the gluten-free diet. The most common reason for poor response to the diet is that small amounts of gluten are still being consumed. Hidden sources of gluten include additives such as modified food starch, preservatives, and stabilizers made with wheat. And because many corn and rice products are produced in factories that also manufacture wheat products, they can be contaminated with wheat gluten."

It's recent but it doesn't say corn & rice are harming celiacs. It says corn & rice might get some wheat on 'em.

I actually have a problem w/ corn myself. Not as severe as soy (or, of course wheat/barley/rye gluten) and more like non-organic tomatoes. It can get complicated but it doesn't mean that the average celiac should expect these problems.
Sometimes I have no idea whether GMO is a factor, or pesticides or what. Canola oil makes me dizzy but it's highly GMO so I can't be certain whether original form organic canola would be fine like org tomatoes are fine for me. I mostly decline to run these experiments on myself just to keep from being sick sometimes. Any experiment w/out multiple outcomes is a poorly designed or executed experiment.
None of this makes me think the forum should highlight these possibilities any more than it already does, w/ the well-trafficked category "Other Food Intolerances .. ..".

Imho, an overstressed immune system combined w/ damaged intestines can lead to issues w/ other foods but doesn't make those foods an essential part of the definition of celiac disease in the way that wheat/barley/rye are. (Grammarians feel free to rephrase w/ your "that which"es & such) :lol:
  • 1
>>>>>>> tom <<<<<<<

Celiac 1st diagnosed as a toddler, in the 60s. Docs then, between bloodletting & leech-tending, said "he'll grow out of it" & I was back on gluten & mostly fine for 30yrs.

Gluten-free since 12-03
Dairy-free since 10-04
Soy-free since 5-07

#53 DogWalkerNYC

 
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Posted 21 July 2012 - 03:52 PM

Ya know I could say the same thing about soy. I would have healed faster if I had known in the beginning that I couldn't tolerate it but I didn't know and no one could tell me. It wasn't until I started making notes of ingredients on products that made me sick and saw that soy was the common denominator that I removed it and then had more good days than bad and then healed fully. It wasn't however a gluten reaction. After some time some of us can tell the difference between a reaction to gluten and our own reactions to what we may also be intolerant to. It does take time though. We don't get sick overnight and we don't heal overnight and no one can give us all the answers.


True, but there's only a handful of known controversial products and that handful should be shoved in our face every chance they get by those calling themselves experts.
  • 0
Laura Grace

65 years old. Diagnosed with GERD at age 63. Started feeling bloated after eating bread & rolls in 2012. After doing online research ate gluten-free for a week & symptoms resolved. Symptoms returned when I glutened. That's good enough for me. Because testing is often inconclusive will not get tested. In 2012 had colonoscopy and endoscopy which showed no damage to the villi. In February, 2013 had capsule endoscopy which showed no damage to the villi or intestines. Diagnosed by gastroenterologist with 'probable non-Celiac sensitivity. Time to get serious before damage occurs.

#54 Jestgar

 
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Posted 21 July 2012 - 03:57 PM

How do you know corn alone does not cause a celiac reaction? If you know that for a fact please publish your research. Until then I prefer to avoid corn until I can check the research of 'the product guy".

http://www.springerlink.com/content/d6723t3n722317x5/?MUD=MP
  • 1
"But then, in all honesty, if scientists don't play god, who will?"
- James Watson

My sources are unreliable, but their information is fascinating.
- Ashleigh Brilliant

Leap, and the net will appear.

#55 kareng

 
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Posted 21 July 2012 - 03:59 PM

As you probably know I am new to this whole thing. I'm coming to you as the newbie I described earlier. I am told to maintain a gluten-free diet and that it's OK to include corn in my diet. All this I understand. No problem.

So I eat corn and do my best to only eat acceptable foods. Why am I not told, either on the celiac.com site or the mall site that corn has a long history of being controversial. Doesn't celiac.com owe it to me and to all of us to at the very least mention that some foods are somewhere in the middle between acceptable and not acceptable?

Why is corn on the acceptable list if it may or may not be based on the person?

One of my first posts in this forum was to ask why the research mentioned gluten sensitivity, gluten intolerance, gluten allergy and celiac disease as being different levels of the same disease. Yet the first line on the celiac website says that celiac disease is also known as gluten intolerance.

There just doesn't seem to be one answer to any particular question. When I asked one of the moderators about the difference in sensitivity, intolerance, celiac he implied the site was written a long time ago and that was the feeling at the time.

I don't want to base my decisions on data that was written so long ago that it's not even accurate. I feel like this is a condition that's in the process of becoming. There is not one authority giving me a straight answer. This is our health and our lives and there is not one authority that agrees with another.

If something is iffy I want to know about it from the experts, not from trial and error, after I'm sick and miserable.

I feel like some people here take the label and run with it. 'I'm celiac, I'm celiac'. How many people have asked how long it takes to heal, etc. Some are suffering for a year, some longer. Are any of those people considering that food products they thought were safe maybe are not safe for them? Maybe they're only celiac because they're continuing to poison themselves.

Are any of them considering maybe corn is destroying their intestines, although it's on the 'Safe' list. I laugh at the comments that I have to take responsibility for my own health. Are these people who are constantly suffering taking responsibility or are they taking the word of a website that apparently hasn't been updated in a very long time.

I do not have time for this condition and I need to get rid of it. And I will do whatever it takes to make that happen. All I ask is that the experts I come to for advice offer me current, accurate advice and info. If not here I will find it elsewhere.

You aren't told its controversial, because its not. You are new, so we thought maybe you didn't understand the term gluten and how its used in " plant talk " and how we use it, in "food talk." We tried to explain that.

We have tried to explain that it takes more than a month or two to heal and get your digestive system in order. You could have a problem with another food. Sometimes its temporary, and you can eat it after you heal. If you can't tolerate corn or tomatoes or bananas - don't eat them. It does not mean they are causing your immune system to destroy your intestines.
  • 1

LTES

 
"We've waited 29 years for this and not even a Giant can stand in our way." - Mayor Sly James
 
 
 
 
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#56 Darn210

 
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Posted 21 July 2012 - 04:03 PM

True, but there's only a handful of known controversial products and that handful should be shoved in our face every chance they get by those calling themselves experts.


How do you decide where to draw that line? How many controversial products (ingredients) are you going to list? The top three? The top ten? Who's going to do the testing to rank them?

The three that everyone (Celiacs/Gluten Sensitives) has to avoid are wheat, rye and barley.
  • 1
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#57 DogWalkerNYC

 
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Posted 21 July 2012 - 04:08 PM

http://www.springerlink.com/content/d6723t3n722317x5/?MUD=MP


I can't open the document, it's restricted. And I'm not going to buy the book for $34. Why don't you post what it says, as I posted the info I wanted you to see.
  • 0
Laura Grace

65 years old. Diagnosed with GERD at age 63. Started feeling bloated after eating bread & rolls in 2012. After doing online research ate gluten-free for a week & symptoms resolved. Symptoms returned when I glutened. That's good enough for me. Because testing is often inconclusive will not get tested. In 2012 had colonoscopy and endoscopy which showed no damage to the villi. In February, 2013 had capsule endoscopy which showed no damage to the villi or intestines. Diagnosed by gastroenterologist with 'probable non-Celiac sensitivity. Time to get serious before damage occurs.

#58 DogWalkerNYC

 
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Posted 21 July 2012 - 04:23 PM

You aren't told its controversial, because its not. You are new, so we thought maybe you didn't understand the term gluten and how its used in " plant talk " and how we use it, in "food talk." We tried to explain that.

We have tried to explain that it takes more than a month or two to heal and get your digestive system in order. You could have a problem with another food. Sometimes its temporary, and you can eat it after you heal. If you can't tolerate corn or tomatoes or bananas - don't eat them. It does not mean they are causing your immune system to destroy your intestines.


I'm not sure what your definition of controversial is, but I posted several articles from different authors who all used the word 'controversial' in regard to corn and celiac. In addition, the fact that the celiac.com website lists corn as acceptable, and the the authors I posted, as well as some of the people who posted on this forum, have problems with corn.

This is from 2011 from Livestrong. Again, all I'm saying is corn products may be controversial and, as such, it would be nice if these innuendos were mentioned when coming to this site. This site is a resource and should be intuitive, accurate and up-to-date:

Questionable Corn Products

While many corn products are naturally gluten-free, food producers sometimes add gluten from wheat, barley or rye during the manufacturing process. Before purchasing any questionable corn product, read the label carefully or contact the manufacturer directly to ensure it's gluten-free. Avoid ingredients that often contain gluten, such as cereal extract or binding, dextrin, modified food starch and cereal flours.

Read more: http://www.livestron.../#ixzz21J2jFexl
  • 0
Laura Grace

65 years old. Diagnosed with GERD at age 63. Started feeling bloated after eating bread & rolls in 2012. After doing online research ate gluten-free for a week & symptoms resolved. Symptoms returned when I glutened. That's good enough for me. Because testing is often inconclusive will not get tested. In 2012 had colonoscopy and endoscopy which showed no damage to the villi. In February, 2013 had capsule endoscopy which showed no damage to the villi or intestines. Diagnosed by gastroenterologist with 'probable non-Celiac sensitivity. Time to get serious before damage occurs.

#59 DogWalkerNYC

 
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Posted 21 July 2012 - 04:30 PM

How do you decide where to draw that line? How many controversial products are you going to list? The top three? The top ten? Who's going to do the testing to rank them?

The three that everyone (Celiacs/Gluten Sensitives) has to avoid are wheat, rye and barley.


We discussed that already, several pages back. There were 5 or 6 on the list that were the most obvious. If it is common knowledge (and it seems to be) that corn can easily be contaminated by wheat because they are often manufactured at the same plant, I want to know that..not by poisoning myself to find out. I want the celiac organization I trust with my health and my life to tell me that.
  • 0
Laura Grace

65 years old. Diagnosed with GERD at age 63. Started feeling bloated after eating bread & rolls in 2012. After doing online research ate gluten-free for a week & symptoms resolved. Symptoms returned when I glutened. That's good enough for me. Because testing is often inconclusive will not get tested. In 2012 had colonoscopy and endoscopy which showed no damage to the villi. In February, 2013 had capsule endoscopy which showed no damage to the villi or intestines. Diagnosed by gastroenterologist with 'probable non-Celiac sensitivity. Time to get serious before damage occurs.

#60 kareng

 
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Posted 21 July 2012 - 04:31 PM

I'm not sure what your definition of controversial is, but I posted several articles from different authors who all used the word 'controversial' in regard to corn and celiac. In addition, the fact that the celiac.com website lists corn as acceptable, and the the authors I posted, as well as some of the people who posted on this forum, have problems with corn.

This is from 2011 from Livestrong. Again, all I'm saying is corn products may be controversial and, as such, it would be nice if these innuendos were mentioned when coming to this site. This site is a resource and should be intuitive, accurate and up-to-date:

Questionable Corn Products

While many corn products are naturally gluten-free, food producers sometimes add gluten from wheat, barley or rye during the manufacturing process. Before purchasing any questionable corn product, read the label carefully or contact the manufacturer directly to ensure it's gluten-free. Avoid ingredients that often contain gluten, such as cereal extract or binding, dextrin, modified food starch and cereal flours.

Read more: http://www.livestron.../#ixzz21J2jFexl


That isn't what you were saying. That doesn't say corn is bad, it says there might be a wheat, barley or rye added to a corn product, so don't assume. Read ingredients.

Honestly, I don't know if we aren't explaining something well enough, we are all misunderstanding each other, or you are too upset to really read what people are trying to say. I don't think there is anything else I can do, tonight, to help you. Tomorrow is a new day.
  • 2

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