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What Do You All Know About The Forks Over Knives Movie?
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Three days ago my dh declaired he is now vegan after our dentist told him to watch it. Could you please watch it and tell me what you all think. Do you really think that all meat will cause cancer and everyone who eats any meat will have to have heart bypass surgery. That is what the movie teaches. Is there any research that refutes this movie. Anything that teaches that small portions of meat does not cause cancer and is ok? I could really use some help. I have 2 small kids 7 and 8 and now they wont eat their dinner because daddy isn't eating it anymore. We used to eat quite healthy but daddy is always an extremist. I'd love some research that shows that this is old research and small amounts of meat are good for you. Or weigh in as you feel. I am really bummed that our family is now devided. The kids are the ones that are now confused. This is really touch for me.

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Oh wow...that is a tough situation. I haven't seen it...I'll see if I can find it.

I don't have research to link to right now...but can add that for years I thought I was feeling poorly after I ate beef -- turns out it was everything I was eating with the beef.

Hang in there...sure others can post some good data.

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You couldl perhaps print out this article and either read it to your kids or tell them about it -- http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/24/eating-red-meat-lifestyle-health-red-meat-study.html -- As it is often said, everything in moderation. Too much of a good thing is too much of a good thing :P but good things, in and of themselves, are not bad.

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That movie is very one-sided only supports vegetarianism. Human beings are carnivores.

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That movie is very one-sided only supports vegetarianism. Human beings are carnivores.

I really appreciate replys because it is so hard on me and my kids. Most things with my 7 yr old are war and this just adds another thing. That is what is so hard. Some kids love to drive a wedge between parents and this is one of those kids. I have to tell her that I'm the boss and she WILL eat the food that I fix. Daddy is going through a phase right now but she will eat the food I fix, super tough with no support. I just wasn't expecting this. Dumb me. I appreciate all thoughts. I can take it. I might cry, but I can take it. I have celiac, IC, dairy issues and more not figured out. So a vagan dh out of the blue is tough and then kids that now wont eat their dinner because daddy wont. @#$%^

I love this forum and an so thankful for it.

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I just read mushroom's article and liked it. I'll show it to my dh. I just need to deal with getting through it right now.

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Technically, everyone posseses cancer cells, they just need to be "switched" on. However, the argument that meat causes it is waaaaay out in left field.

The heart thing? That is more of a greesy fatty foods than meat.

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That movie is very one-sided only supports vegetarianism. Human beings are carnivores.

Hmmm I think we be omnivores......
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Hmmm I think we be omnivores......

Obligate carnivores. If you don't eat animal products you'll die without synthetic B12.

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I hate to say this because it sounds trite, but, I think maybe you are going to need counseling, because given your health relies on your being gluten free, it seems that this is really irresponsible behavior on the part of your spouse to throw another wrench into the family meal planning process, which seeks to eliminate another entire category of proteins. It is possible to be a vegetarian or even vegan gluten free diner (if you want to have to take supplements, and if you want to have to risk further health problems if you are already insulin resistant or carbohydrate intolerant) but it is difficult and time- consuming - because the vegan diet is predominantly grain- based, and it's typically replacing meats with grain and legume carbohydrates. All of this food has to be cleared for possible cross contamination issues. There is a group of people who metabolically can tolerate this - but we are usually not them. My attitude would be, that's nice, have fun doing your own shopping, cooking and clean- up, bub.

You can eat very "politically correctly" (as I call it, because thin women "experts" in the media love to sneer at the thought of those less svelte celiacs on their 'fad diets' who just don't eat what they do, which is based on the USDA's brainwashing that feeding one's self like a steer on a feedlot is best <_<:ph34r:, - remember the Food Pyramid ? ) and still develop all sorts of life shortening diseases or become overweight or even keel over from the dreadful heart disease or stroke.

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Here's a long article about the movie:

http://rawfoodsos.co...w-and-critique/

I haven't read the whole thing, but apparently the science in the movie is sometimes sketchy.

And here's an article that has tons of links to other articles that discuss the bad conclusions drawn by the vegetarian crowd in relation to The China Study, which is apparently at least part of the basis for the movie's conclusions: http://freetheanimal...wn-roundup.html

Edited by ciamarie
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Here's a long article about the movie:

http://rawfoodsos.co...w-and-critique/

I haven't read the whole thing, but apparently the science in the movie is sometimes sketchy.

And here's an article that has tons of links to other articles that discuss the bad conclusions drawn by the vegetarian crowd in relation to The China Study, which is apparently at least part of the basis for the movie's conclusions: http://freetheanimal...wn-roundup.html

Thanks for support. Today dh called and said the diatitians at his hospital said this is not a good way to eat so he concented to eat a little meat every few days. Somethimes you have to say there is a God. But he wants to eat this way most of the time.

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just checked that out....we get that one nutrient....we eat many plants as well, which puts us in the omnivore group. can we actually live on meat alone? that would be a carnivore...

Obligate carnivores. If you don't eat animal products you'll die without synthetic B12.

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Can you try a compromise? Meatless Mondays.

I noticed for my own health I needed to supplement Biotin. It is naturally found in animal liver. I just can not force myself to eat it. There have been warnings for years of animal liver products having more environmental toxins too. Olympians had to remove animal liver from thier diets because they would have tested positive on drug testing for the games.

Sometimes a balanced diet is more complicated than it seems. ;)

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Obligate carnivore doesn't mean you ONLY eat meat, it means you HAVE to eat meat, if only a small amount. Cats are obligate carnivores, dogs are not. A cat will die eventually on a plant based diet, as will a human (witout synthetic supplements).

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For what it's worth, I think it's a very personal decision. The movie changed my life and I adhere to it most of the time (still no meat). I don't expect my kids to be vegan/vegetarian and I don't expect anyone to accomodate my alternative lifestyle. I've learned to cook the 'flexitarian' way so that they can still get what they want and I can get what I want in the same meal. It's a pretty controversial subject to me bc people usually feel very strongly one way or another.

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perhaps we are closer to a facultative carnivore...but certainly all the vegans over centuries have survived without sumpplementation

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[A]ll the vegans over centuries have survived without sumpplementation

I presume that you have a source for this that you can share with us--please do so.

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After being diagnosed with cancer and celiac disease in the same month I started watching nutrition documentaries on Netflix and doing research on the internet. After watching Forks Over Knives I considered vegetarianism but my instinct kept telling me that it just did not all add up humans have always eaten meat. Look at the Inuits, how many fruits and vegetables are available in the arctic circle? One day I found Mark's Daily Apple website. I suggest you get your husband the Primal Blueprint book for Christmas since he seems interested in nutrition. I am mostly primal now and have lost 14 lbs.

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My attempts at vegetarianism (twice, for just two-three months each time) objectively worsened my autoimmune disorders. I did not just "feel" worse. My labs were worse. My exams were worse. Doctors found me in a worse condition. Incidentally, my HEART condition worsened when I cut out animal protein. Feel free to mention this to your husband. Vegetarianism may be an option, but not one that's for everybody. Which is a whole different animal from saying it is ok to consume +1 lb of meat per day.

This is a scare-tactic movie, and its logic is questionable. Were meat sure to lead to cancer and heart-disease, the vast majority of the world population would have died from that. Bring proof. And bring proof that all Masai hunters die of those conditions.

Vegetarianism or veganism as they are mainstream now are the farthest thing from a real, natural diet, because they rely on food-like substitutes mostly made of soy, and mostly GMO. Good luck with that!

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would he consider grass fed to finish beef? Much of the beef sold in groceies are fed alot of stuff to fatten them up quicker for market & injected with hormones & such... Grass fed to finish is a healthy beef that is good for us. It is more costly but you get what you pay for.....there is a big difference in texture, quality & taste.... same with chickens & eggs, the taste is so much different.. SOOOO much better...you can even buy grass fed milk.. from healthy cows....

There is a doctor in our area who also pipes this that meat causes cancer but he is speaking of grocery store beef. When I said I disagree that there is good beef he agreed but said many don't know about the good meats......most are looking for bargain meat at the Aldi's, bottom dollar & cheaper grocery stores..

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I think mamaw is right, the problem is that they're lumping together all food. You also nailed it saying that people are mostly concerned about bargains. What is weird, is that it's not just poor people, who would have a good reason to. The dominant mentality is "if it's a lot, and cheap, it's better." I don't understand why, since food is ubiquitous, in the US. I was recently with some friends, who are not poor, and witnessed stuff like "expiration dates don't mean anything," or that a pie that smashed into a car trunk was still edible. I love them, don't get me wrong, but I don't share their food philosophy.

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Three days ago my dh declaired he is now vegan after our dentist told him to watch it. Could you please watch it and tell me what you all think. Do you really think that all meat will cause cancer and everyone who eats any meat will have to have heart bypass surgery. That is what the movie teaches. Is there any research that refutes this movie. Anything that teaches that small portions of meat does not cause cancer and is ok? I could really use some help. I have 2 small kids 7 and 8 and now they wont eat their dinner because daddy isn't eating it anymore. We used to eat quite healthy but daddy is always an extremist. I'd love some research that shows that this is old research and small amounts of meat are good for you. Or weigh in as you feel. I am really bummed that our family is now devided. The kids are the ones that are now confused. This is really touch for me.

My understanding is that the meat itself is not toxic, but it is the additives in the feeds etc. that are causing problems.... if you get grass fed beef, it is considered to be a safe meat by most naturopathic people that I have spoken to. I would imagine that the same holds for other meats.... I have been told that wild game is very healthy and not toxic to the body. There are interesting points of view out there, but like most people I personally think that in moderation most things (okay... not gluten!!) are okay.

I should add, I suppose that my daughter has Cystic Fibrosis and eats a high animal protein diet, and my husband hunted for years... I myself am a lacto-ovo vegetarian, and have been for the past 25 years. I cook for the family (meat included) and also make sure there are enough foods in the meal that aren't gluten or meat containing for me! But also I know of lots of kids who 'go vegetarian' and it lasts a month or maybe several months, very few of the ones that I know of personally stuck with it for any extended periods. Just my thoughts on it! (and I'll confess that I never even heard of 'forks over knives')

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    • Mnoosh,    Can you give us a link to the article you read about the increased risk after being diagnosed and maintaining a strict gluten-free diet??       IMO,   You are over reacting to a misprint or most likely a misread article.
    • Yes!  With dairy, celiacs can often have a temorary lactose intolerance due to damaged intestinal villi (where the enzymes normally are released to digest lactose).  Of course you could be naturally lactose intolerant based on race or age.  It is best to stick to a whole foods diet while you are healing.  Really, is ice cream or potato chips going to provide you with nutritional value?  Stick with naturally gluten free foods like meat, fish, fats,  veggies (even those with carbs like sweet potatoes or winter squash) and fruit.  Avoid that processed junk as you may react to the additives right now.  Later, you can add back in dairy (test) and other foods you miss and crave.   Good luck!  
    • Take a deep breath and calm down!    The incidence of cancer with Celiac Disease is rare.......it can happen but the vast majority of people never have that experience.  You may have somewhat enlarged lymph nodes due to inflammation from undiagnosed Celiac but that will all calm down and go away once you get going on the diet.  Believe me, there are many of us that have things happen during the diagnosis and early recovery period and everything turned out just fine.  There is an elevated risk for some cancers with Celiac but that risk goes back to that of the general population after a couple of years on the gluten-free diet. I cannot remember the exact time frame but it is somewhere between 2-4 years, I think.  So many of us went years without a diagnosis and when it was all figured out, we have gone on to be healthy with little complications.  Really...do  not worry about this.  Concentrate on learning all the ins and outs of this disease and how to live gluten free happily.  We are here to help you and guess what? The diet is not as bad as some make it out to be. Many things can be made gluten free and are every bit as good as their gluten counterparts. The diet may not be convenient but it is not hard. I would not lie to you!   
    • Well....one common symptom that most celiacs have when they are diagnosed (or undiagnosed) is anxiety.  So, there is a risk of cancers, but science has demonstrated that that risk goes down on a gluten free diet (if you have celiac disease).  In goes down to the same risk as those without celiac disease.   I kind of was a basket case.  I drive my family a bit crazy because I was anxious.  I felt a bit stupid too.  I guess I had a little brain fog going on too.  All that resolved after I healed. Welcome to the fourum.  Read our Newbie 101 thread under "Coping" (pinned at the top of the page) and learn about hidden sources of gluten and cross contamination.  I think most of us do not worry about cancer. We mourn the freedom to eat anything anywhere!   I did not have swollen lymph nodes, but I am sure others have and they did not have cancer.  Hopefully, they will chime in and set your mind at ease.  If not, you can search for "lymph nodes" at the top of the page (little magnifying glass).  There are lots of members with the same issue!  
    • I was recently diagnosed as having celiac and to be honest the part I'm having the most trouble with isn't the change in food or lifestyle. I'm really upset about what I've read about the risk of cancer increasing with celiac disease. I think this is playing into my fears because I currently have lymph nodes all over my body-my Doctor says they are not considered swollen or concerning, but I don't usually feel nodes. The lymph nodes and horrible diarrhea for the last 3 weeks were what got me into the the doctor for lab work. My blood work came great so I'm wondering if anyone else experienced lymph nodes reacting when they found out they were celiac? Also how do you deal with anxiety surrounding the increased risk of cancer? Thanks!
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