skipper240

Hi All,

I'm new and im the process of getting tested for a myriad of issues. And symptoms wise i definitely do worse intestinally when i eat gluten. but sometimes when i have crackers it doesnt really bother me. Bread or pasta does however. I was wondering if someone could tell me what the difference between gluten intolerance/sensitivity is with full blown celiac's disease? Are they the same? I looked online and they always pair the two together but from what i understand there are people that do not have celiac disease but still cannot eat gluten because it causes problems. How do you know which one you have? blood tests and biopsy? symptoms wise?


Secondly, i did a search but the most recent thread i found regarding this matter was from 08. In 2007, there was an article released describing an enzyme that was 60 fold quicker in breaking down gluten than a previous enzyme that was researched and it was done so with high stability and in the stomach pH. It said that gluten is broken down in 4 minutes in the acidic pH. The enzyme is called AN-PEP, which is different than the DPP-IV found in most gluten enzymes such as Glutenease by enzymedica. Currently i only found one product that has it called Gluten guard by (Company Name Removed - They Spammed This Forum and are Banned).

Obviously staying gluten free would be the most ideal way but for those who are gluten sensitive, it may help?

thank you!

In addition to my previous/original post,

I believe the latest status on those enzymes were pending clinical trials. I guess they just finished those trials only a few days ago. http://clinicaltrial...how/NCT00810654
I guess it is a waiting game to see what the results show.

Preliminary studies however show positive results http://www.ncbi.nlm....ov/sites/entrez

Not saying that this is a cure for celiacs (or maybe it is) but it seems like within a few more years they may be able to find something that is even more effective. There is another company that is currently working on using the strepto lactis bacteria to genetically modify the bacteria's DNA and split human sequence into it that allows for the digestion of gluten and has a protective measure on the intestines. It would essentially be a GMO probiotic. They are also working on this. I find this stuff fascinating!

I think that's a really good question! But I don't think anyone really knows the answer either. Some people think gluten intolerance can develop into celiac disease. Seems reasonable to me. But I don't think there is any proof of that. And leaky gut is a weird one. What I read is some reserch by Dr. A. Fassano saying the some celiacs intestines can let small particles of gliaden fragemnts into the blood stream. Something about a chemical signal called zonulin that keeps the intestinal cells open longer than normal I think. A leaky gut. Seems to me some people think that means the intestines are like a sieve and let all kinds of things through that they shouldn't. That is not correct IMHO. But I am no expert on it, so take it with a grain of salt. I have also read that some people think candida yeast can penetrate the intestinal walls and cause leaky gut. That's one I don't know if there is any truth to really. Sounds possible but I just don't know.

Feces getting out of the gut and into the body cavity is a pretty darn dangerous thing though and can kill a person darn pretty quick. That's what happened to my brother years ago when a fistula ruptured after an accident.

Getting a bit off topic I guess. Celiac is "diagnosed" by damage (blunting) of the intestinal villi. Some docs diagnose based on positive antibodies and a dietary response. But you can have antibodies without intestinal damage, and that is called gluten intolerance. That is not an ok condition though, as people do say that gluten intolerance can lead to other autoimmune diseases in the body just like celiac. There are conditions called silent celiac and latent celiac also, where a person seems to have no digestion symptoms. There are articles on the main web site here about it.

I don't know if any of that helps you. But the upshot is if you feel bad eating gluten, even if a doctor doesn't say you have celiac, you still shouldn't eat gluten. Doctors are just people, and people don't know everything.

You might want to read up on elimination diets also. Quite a few of us have other food intolerances in addition to gluten.

I guess you are right, nobody knows! What I was wondering is when they do a biopsy and see the flatten villi in the small intestine, how do they know whether it is from celiac and gluten damage or from other food allergy inflammations?

I guess ive made a bit of a mess. I'm on a relaxed gluten free diet. 90% gluten free but once in a while i'll eat some crackers or something that might contain trace amounts of gluten. I never eat actual wheat rye barley or oat products though. If i want an accurate test, i will have to start eating gluten like crazy for weeks i think, to get an accurate reading. But that means, worsening my health and intestine inflammation ive worked hard to try and heal. The other method is to just go completely gluten free but that means i'll never have a diagnosis. Not a good place to be in.
I also thought about just getting the tTG antibody checked anyway but i'm IgA deficient so it's not going to be accurate anyway!

Currently I am awaiting a food allergy test IgG that will show gluten and wheat allergies. If it does not come up or if something else comes up that makes more sense, I will know more.

Where did everyone learn to go gluten free? I don't even know what has gluten .. EVERYTHING has gluten in it. Who knew that "modified food starch" is gluten. Geez, how do you eat out ever, or do anything social? Don't mistake what i'm saying though, i would rather give up gluten and restaurants and be houseridden any longer!

If you are IgA deficient, ANY IgA antibody test (tTg, antigliadin, EMA) will be useless; the reference ranges simply don't apply to you. At the least, you'd need IgG tests. General food allergy IgG tests may not tell you about celiac either; I don't believe they look for tTg or antigliadin antibodies in that particular test). IgE tests won't tell you a thing about celiac, since celiac disease is not an IgE immune mediated condition.

You need to be eating at least three slices of bread (or the equivalent) for at least three months for the tests to be reasonably reliable, but that doesn't guarantee you won't get a false negative. If you are gluten free, or even too light in gluten, prior to the test, the test will be worthless.

Celiac disease, in so far as it is an autoimmune reaction to gluten, is "curable": don't ever eat gluten and you won't ever have the autoimmune condition. Converting to gluten free is a steep learning curve, but once you get there, it is totally doable, and it is the ONLY way to prevent damage to the intestines, and potentially other areas of the body.

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I told my doctor that i am SIgA deficient (or was a few months ago) and he still prescribed the tTG IgA. Should i call him and ask to add/change to the IgG instead?

So how do you know whether you have celiac's disease or just a gluten sensitivity because of something like a leaky gut or something? I was reading Enterolab's FAQs and it says that a stool test is the most accurate but they also test for IgA and doesnt mention anything about being IgA deficient.
Could it be possible to have a gluten IgG allergy but not celiac disease that's causing the gut inflammation?

What i don't understand is, how i developed celiac disease (if i have it) I don't eat anything wheat, rye or barley other than white bread. (not anymore either) My entire family and relatives do not even know what that is, it is unheard of. And symptoms wise, I've had chronic digestion issues for 3 years which is why doctors want to get celiac but they never do it properly NOR do they listen to my symptoms! During the 3 years, I've had "remission" months at a time where i was having gut problems and being completely 100% better with no inflammation and being able to eat anything and even binge drink with no problem/inflammation. I'm being tested for leaky gut so food allergy inflammation might have something to do with it but i'm not sure how celiac or gluten would fit in the picture. Does celiac cause leaky gut? (they say small amount of celiac have IgA deficiency) or does prolonged leaky gut and developing food sensitivities start a reaction to gluten and cause gluten sensitivity?