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squirmingitch

Member Since 01 Nov 2011
Offline Last Active Private
*****

#817806 Testing After Being Gluten Free

Posted by on 14 August 2012 - 04:03 PM

Thank you for the information & links Tom & I will agree that this subject requires further study & research by those who do such. And the study you cite says there were GI changes enough to make a dx. But let's examine further. The study involved 20 ppl. 1 of which was washed out due to not possessing the accepted genetic markers for celiac disease. So now we have 19 ppl. All of those 19 ppl were dx'd by biopsy by this team. And let's remember that this team IS doing a research project & therefore are being extremely careful in measurements & documentation. They are not your average GI whom we know is rather reluctant to even perform the biopsy in the first place & then only after the blood panel turns up positive. Plus, this team performed a biopsy at day 3 & again at day 14 which never happens in real life. So this team was measuring before, early on & at the end. They had careful measurements of villous height to crypt depth for comparison on 3 occasions during the study. If this type of measuring were done on every potential celiac out there in the real world by your average GI's then I'm sure we would have much more accurate dx's resulting.
Now, what the links you posted DO NOT state is that:

Patients also experienced a marked increase in levels of antibodies against tissue transglutaminase and deamidated gliadin peptides between baseline and day 14, although this did not reach statistical significance. Levels continued to rise after the challenge was completed.
And:
The researchers observe that the timing of intestinal changes did not significantly correlate with those of serology, symptoms, or LAMA.
"If we accept that duodenal mucosal damage is the gold standard marker of coeliac disease activity, then it is clear that, despite out encouraging findings, improved non-invasive markers of coeliac disease activity are greatly needed for use in patient management and clinical research," emphasize Leffler et al writing in Gut.

Finally, noting that a minority of patients had no significant response to the 2-week gluten challenge, and that gluten sensitivity varied significantly among the group, they conclude: "An accurate, non-invasive measure of coeliac disease activity would be valuable in many respects and may allow the strictness of the gluten-free diet to be personalised without negative consequences. "




The above from: http://www.medwire-n...c_response.html

The op stated that they are going to the lab in 2 - 3 weeks for the test. Well, that obviously means the blood panel not an endoscopy w/ biopsy. So, the study you reference is not applicable in this particular instance.

The researchers themselves admit the need for improved, accurate, non invasive markers for ceilac disease.

And I think ALL of us will agree on that point.











  • 1


#816366 Interesting Reading On Dh

Posted by on 06 August 2012 - 05:19 PM

I made a post on another thread in the post dx forum & some there were saying they did not know much about dh 7 wouldn't mind learning more as well as wanting to know what the source was for things I stated. Here is my post, copied & pasted. I did not want to hijack the other thread plus this forum is the best place to discuss dh so I post the sources here.
My post from http://www.celiac.co...rd/page__st__30

I will also add a tidbit of information here. In the case of celiacs with dermatitis herpetiformis; we test negative on the blood panel even more often than celiacs with the GI issues. We also have patchier damage in the gut so it's harder to find with an endoscopy/biopsy. Thus, it's even more difficut for us to get an "official" dx. We can have the area adjacent to a lesion biopsied but we have to have been actively eating gluten just like for the blood panel & endoscopy PLUS there is a 37% false negative return on the biopsy. AND you had better have a derm who REALLY knows their stuff doing the biopsy. All in all; it's harder than heck to get a dyed in the wool dx.


Now, here are the sources along with selected excerpts:



DH is diagnosed by a skin biopsy. Biopsy needs to be performed on uninvolved skin (clinically normal-appearing skin immediately next to an area of inflammation). False negatives may occur if a biopsy is performed on skin that is affected by the condition.


IgA antibodies must be present in the skin biopsy for a definite diagnosis (4). It is important the person continues to eat gluten as the gluten-free diet can cause false negative results.


The NICE guideline on the recognition and diagnosis of coeliac disease recommends that people with DH should be screened for coeliac disease. The gastrointestinal symptoms of coeliac disease can be mild and in some cases are not apparent at all. Less than 10% of people with DH have gastrointestinal symptoms characteristic of coeliac disease (1).


Clinically, 10-20% of patients with DH present with classic symptoms of malabsorption and another 20% are estimated to have atypical symptoms, but at least 60% of patients have 'silent' coeliac disease.


The presence of DH is a marker of coeliac disease that is independent of the severity of histologic coeliac disease or the intestinal symptoms.


http://www.coeliac.org.uk/healthcare-professionals/associated-conditions-and-complications/dermatitis-herpetiformis


And this entire article is interesting & really should be read in it's entirety as it relates to both celiac disease & dh. Read especially, the last 1/3 of it. And it will verify much of what I stated.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2193738/




A novel hypothesis of autoimmune pathogenesis of
celiac disease consists of deamidation of wheat gliadin
by tissue transglutaminase, binding to HLA-DQ2 and
its recognition by gut T cells with subsequent production of epithelial damaging cytokines, matrix degrading
enzymes, and also IgA autoantibodies against tissue
transglutaminase.
12–14
In DH, a clinically silent but immunologically active celiac, disease in the gut could
produce IgA antibodies crossreacting with the connective tissue in the skin, a hypothesis presented already
for 30 years ago.
15
In contrast to the major progress
made in the characterization of the target antigens in
various autoimmune blistering disorders, such as pemphigus, pemphigoid, and linear IgA disease, one of the
main goals in the research on DH is still to resolve the
enigma of IgA deposition in the skin, what is the antigen, and does IgA have any role in blister formation.


Small Intestine
The occurrence of small intestinal mucosal abnormality
in DH was first reported in 1966, and shortly thereafter
it was recognized as gluten-sensitive and indistinguishable from ordinary celiac disease.
5,75
To date, it can be
concluded that all children and adults with DH have
celiac disease though most of the patients have no
gastrointestinal symptoms or signs of malabsorption.
7,18,77
The enteropathy in DH varies from flat mucosa to partial villous atrophy in about 75% of the
patients, and the remainder show minor morphological
changes and increased counts of intraepithelial lymphocytes.
7,18,27,57,76–78
At present, it is well established that
the patients with overt gastrointestinal symptoms represent only the top of the celiac iceberg and that there is
latent form of celiac disease showing only minor mucosal changes.
8,79
A certain population of intraepithelial
lymphocytes, CD4-, CD8-negative, gamma/delta T cell
receptor–bearing lymphocytes are closely associated
with celiac disease and DH.
33,80
The activation of these
gamma/delta T cells, exclusively found within epithelial tissues such as intestine and skin, seems to be
peptide and HLA independent.
81
Therefore, constant
presence of high numbers of gamma/delta T cells in the
epithelium of gluten-sensitive enteropathy suggests
that these cells have either a signaling function to immunocompetent cells or modulating function on epithelial cell growth.


Although the patients with DH have increased incidence of lymphoma and autoimmune diseases,
96
general mortality was not increased either in an English or
Finnish patient series.


During the last 30 years the research on DH has brought
up several important findings for dermatologists and
scientists. The change from a blistering dermatological
disease to a disorder in which both the skin and gut are
sensitive to cereal proteins, and also treatable by a GFD,
has been dramatic. The linkage to celiac disease revealed that DH is also a genetic disorder having a
strong association with HLA-DQ2 and a tendency to
cluster in families with celiac disease. Though granular
IgA deposits in dermal papillae are pathognomonic for
DH, and not present in the skin of patients with celiac
disease, their antigenic specificity remains to be elucidated in contrast to autoantibodies in the linear IgA
disease. The only circulating IgA autoantibody detected
to date in DH is the antibody against tissue transglutaminase. This antibody is, however, specific for glutensensitive enteropathy (i.e., for celiac disease), and it
may be involved together with DQ2-restricted, gliadinspecific T cell response in the pathogenesis of the gut
lesion. This novel hypothesis on the autoimmune
pathogenesis of gluten-sensitive enteropathy raises the
question if there is also a dermal autoantigen in DH
related to tissue transglutaminase.


http://suphu.medcom.ch/uploads/media/Dermatitis_herpetiformis.pdf


And there is this:


Role of gluten and association to coeliac disease


The first suggestion that patients with DH also have an enteropathy identical to coeliac disease (celiac disease) was made in 1967. This was confirmed by showing the enteropathy cleared with gluten withdrawal from the diet and recurred when gluten was reintroduced. It was subsequently shown that all patients with DH have evidence of a gluten enteropathy. However, in the majority of patients the enteropathy is mild and does not give rise to symptoms such as abdominal pain, weight loss and diarrhoea. Thus, all patients with DH have associated celiac disease although it could be described as latent celiac disease in the majority.


Diagnosis


The diagnosis of DH is made by a simple skin test. A small piece of skin approximately 3 mms in diameter is taken from an unaffected area, ie. normal looking skin. The skin is examined for the presence of a substance called IgA (immunoglobulin A) and is found at a specific site in the skin. Although the test is simple, it is important a laboratory experienced in the procedure undertakes the examination of the skin.

The diagnosis of DH can also be confirmed with the same tests as used for diagnosing celiac disease, ie. a small intestinal biopsy and blood tests looking for specific antibodies, called anti-endomysial and tissue transglutaminase antibodies. Occasionally in DH, the blood tests may be negative because their positivity correlates strongly with the severity of the intestinal lesion.


http://www.dermatitisherpetiformis.org.uk/


And then there is this one:


While DH is a known symptom of celiac, many patients with DH will not develop any classic digestive symptoms. This particular skin manifestation often does not correlate with a positive celiac diagnosis via biopsy. In fact, up to 20% of patients actually have normal small intestines when examined.
Some patients may exhibit signs of celiac, such as anemia or osteoporosis, at the time of their diagnosis.


How is it diagnosed?
o Skin Biopsy
o Misdiagnoses
While 70-80% of DH patients have higher than normal blood IgA- tTG antibody levels, a typical celiac panel (blood test) is not considered sufficient or reliable enough to properly diagnose patients.
Instead, doctors diagnose DH by examining the dermal papillae (cells under the top layer of skin), and use a process called direct immunofluorescence to detect for neutrophils and granular IgA deposits in the skin.
Granular IgA deposits (which indicate DH) appear in a very distinct pattern when inspected via immunofluorescence and appear in 98% of patients with DH - making it the gold standard in gaining a diagnosis.
These types of skin samples are collected by performing a biopsy, which involves incising tiny portions of unaffected skin positioned immediately next to reddened or blistered areas.
Inflammation and blistering of skin (likely caused by itching or scratching) can alter the look and concentration of the IgA deposits present in patients with DH, affecting the patient’s ability to receive a proper diagnosis. Because of this, it’s very important that unaffected skin be collected during a skin biopsy.
DH can often be misdiagnosed and frequently confused with skin conditions such as: allergies, bug or mosquito bites, contact dermatitis, diabetic pruritus, eczema, herpes, hives and psoriasis.
The lesioning of individual blisters can often lead to this misdiagnosis, as scarring can cause a change in presentation, making it difficult for doctors to differentiate DH from other skin conditions.


http://www.celiaccentral.org/skin/




http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17762854


Our data suggest that antibodies to eTG are the most sensitive serologic marker in treated and untreated patients with DH and confirm the central role of eTG in the pathogenesis of this disease. From:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19344979


The novel anti-GAF3X ELISA shows a higher sensitivity to detect celiac disease-associated autoantibodies in patients with DH compared with tests using nGli, tTG, or endomysium as substrates. From:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21840083


Virtually 100% of patients with DH have celiac disease, though the intestinal lesion is usually milder than most patients who have predominantly gastrointestinal complaints. The lesions of DH are very sensitive to even the ingestion of small amounts of gluten. Other dietary factors, for example iodine, may exacerbate the rash or prevent its healing. The rash is however dependant on the ingestion of gluten. While Dapsone will control the skin lesions of DH, a gluten-free diet allows Dapsone to be discontinued, healing of the intestine and reduction in the risk of the development of lymphoma that is increased in patients with DH. From:
http://www.celiacdiseasecenter.org/C_Doctors/C02-What.htm


And from our own celiac.com:
With dermatitis herpetiformis the primary lesion is on the skin rather than the small intestine. The degree of damage to the small intestine is often less severe or more patchy then those with only celiac disease. Both diseases are permanent and symptoms/ damage will occur after comsuming gluten.
http://www.celiac.com/articles/177/1/The-Gluten-Intolerance-Group-of-North-America-on-Iodine-and-Dermatitis-Herpetiformis/Page1.html


And from the Mayo Clinic:
http://www.mayomedicallaboratories.com/test-catalog/Clinical+and+Interpretive/9360


"Circulating IgA endomysial antibodies (EMA) are present in 70% to 80% of patients with dermatitis herpetiformis or celiac disease, and in nearly all such patients who have high grade gluten-sensitive enteropathy and are not adhering to a gluten-free diet."


Cautions
A negative result (absence of circulating IgA-endomysial antibodies) does not exclude the diagnosis of dermatitis herpetiformis or celiac disease.




And from an article on celiac.com:
http://www.celiac.com/articles/57/1/Interpretation-of-Celiac-Disease-Blood-Test-Results/Page1.html


Endomysial Antibodies:


IgA class anti-endomysial antibodies (AEA) are very specific, occurring only in celiac disease and DH. These antibodies are found in approximately 80% of patients with DH and in essentially 100% of patients with active celiac disease. IgA endomysial antibodies are more sensitive and specific than gliadin antibodies for diagnosis of celiac disease. Antibody titers (dilutions) are found to parallel morphological changes in the jejunum and can also be used to reflect compliance with gluten-free diets.





And from: http://www.arupconsu...mis.html#tabs=3


Celiac Disease Dual Antigen Screen with Reflex 2002026
Method: Semi-Quantitative Enzyme-Linked Immunosorbent Assay
Diagnose celiac disease in association with suspected or known dermatitis herpetiformis


Components include celiac disease dual antigen screen; tissue transglutaminase antibodies IgA and IgG; and gliadin peptide antibodies IgA and IgG
Monitor celiac disease and dermatitis herpetiformis during treatment
May be negative if patient is following a gluten-free diet


Some patients with dermatitis herpetiformis will also be negative
Monitor increased IgA endomysial and tissue transglutaminase antibodies




And from Medscape: http://emedicine.med.../1062640-workup


Serum markers, such as IgA endomysial antibodies, are negative in as many as 10-37% of patients with dermatitis herpetiformis.[28] Arguments have been made in favor of testing for tissue transglutaminase for diagnosis,[29] but tissue transglutaminase enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay positivity can occur in many autoimmune diseases because of impurities and cross-reactivity.[30]
The diagnosis is made after observing characteristic findings from skin biopsy specimens. The biopsy sample should be taken from the edge of a lesion for hematoxylin and eosin staining and from normal-appearing perilesional skin for direct immunofluorescence staining.


Results of direct immunofluorescence of lesional skin are often falsely negative. The vigorous immune response degrades the IgA antibody at the site. Therefore, biopsy specimens for the direct immunofluorescence studies should be taken from healthy-appearing skin.

  • 2


#815371 Question For Those Of You That Have Dh That Is In Remission, Healed, Cleared....

Posted by on 01 August 2012 - 01:17 PM

Okay. The derm is obviously off on some things then.

As far as Synthroid goes (my hubs takes Levothyroxine) --- if we want to get really technical --- iodine is not added to the medication but rather that the hormone itself contains iodine. So, in short YES, there is iodine in there. I called a pharmacist to ask if there was iodine in it -- actually I called 2. 1 didn't know & the other said no.

And here I will quote what I learned from Skylark:

The iodine in T4 is covalently bound & wouldn't bother dh but as your body metabolizes T4 (4 iodine atoms) to T3 (3 iodine atoms) & T2 (2 iodine atoms)it removes iodine atoms & those would be released into the bloodstream. It's a very small amount of iodine relative to eating something like seaweed but if you are hypersensitive it could be the problem.
  • 1


#815369 Irishheart, Come Home!

Posted by on 01 August 2012 - 01:06 PM

IrishHeart is like the heartbeat of the forum. Who knows how many lives she has saved?
She's like a beacon of hope to all who enter here.

She's stern when someone is being pig headed, she's suportive when someone feels weak, she has a great sense of humor, and is so giving of her time and knowledge. She has a lot of hard earned knowledge! She has come from the brink of death..and her struggles continue, but she's always so giving to others.

Bartful said it best..she lets others know that she knows them, and that's so comforting. :D


I couldn't have said it better myself!

What they all said!



  • 1


#815141 Question For Those Of You That Have Dh That Is In Remission, Healed, Cleared....

Posted by on 31 July 2012 - 05:45 PM

Mine isn't in remission, healed, cleared YET. But I see what you're asking. And while other things may make you flare up like iodine & salicylates; those things aren't going to "start your clock back at day 1". Gluten is the enemy & I believe a glutening will set you back. Will it set you back to day 1? I don't think so --- not unless you got heavily glutened & it happened often. Or if you keep getting cc'd on a regular basis. Every time we get glutened or cc'd it is going to put IgA in our skin & that's where the rash comes from.

You're lucky that you have a good derm who understands this stuff. Don't be afraid to ask him questions like what you just asked here. Sounds like he's a good guy.

And just like your derm said --- we can have flare ups for no reason or trigger at all until all that IgA gets out of our skin.

I know, I'm with you sister, I'm sick of trying to figure this out all the time too. Always questioning -- why this flare? Too much iodine or too many sals or too much stress or is this one just a flare b/c that's what dh does. Posted Image
  • 1


#814910 Outrageous Things I Have Said And Done!

Posted by on 30 July 2012 - 05:55 PM

I buy the envelopes that self seal. You know, they have that peel off strip. They really don't cost much more & I don't get glue all over a sponge nor have that awful taste on my tongue.

I have been enjoying the repartee but back to the OP's questions as I know it is truly a concern for her.

1D, I will admit that the things you proposed would sound weird to me if I didn't have celiac disease myself. I'll go one further & say that they would sound more than weird to me. I would call them over the top. All except for the last one --- the barley which gets your arms when you weed. That one would not sound odd to me at all.
However, if you were a family member or a dear friend & you explained things to me about the disease then they would not seem so weird. In fact I could understand them all except maybe the whiff of vinegar.

I think you have to have this disease or an anaphylactic reaction to some food or substance in order to truly understand how severely it can affect us. I think that's something we are just going to have to learn to live with.
  • 1


#814779 My Biopsy Word For Word

Posted by on 30 July 2012 - 08:58 AM

I will also add a tidbit of information here. In the case of celiacs with dermatitis herpetiformis; we test negative on the blood panel even more often than celiacs with the GI issues. We also have patchier damage in the gut so it's harder to find with an endoscopy/biopsy. Thus, it's even more difficut for us to get an "official" dx. We can have the area adjacent to a lesion biopsied but we have to have been actively eating gluten just like for the blood panel & endoscopy PLUS there is a 37% false negative return on the biopsy. AND you had better have a derm who REALLY knows their stuff doing the biopsy. All in all; it's harder than heck to get a dyed in the wool dx.
  • 1


#814249 Losing Hope...

Posted by on 27 July 2012 - 03:08 PM

kswan, SOY can make you bloat like crazy! Many celiacs have problems with soy so if you are eating anything containing soy you can try elimiating that from your diet & see what happens. Soy makes me bloat like you wouldn't believe --- like I'm 15 months pregnant!!!! I will bloat so bloat so badly that I literally feel like my abdomen/stomach/intestines are going to explode & there will little pieces of me splattered all over the place. I'm sorry if that's too graphic but that is exactly the way soy bloat can make me feel.

Personally, I would take the advice of IrishHeart, mushroom, eatmeatforgood, Gemini, bartful, FernW, justlisa, GFinDc, MitiziG, beachbirdie, TiaMichi2 & jestgar. These people know what they are talking about. And they can get very passionate about it but that is only because they have been at death's door from celiac disease & doctors who don't know what they are doing/talking about OR have seen enough on this board of people who have gone on needlessly suffering & doing damage to their bodies b/c of inept doctors. The very same kind of doctors who think celiac is a fad. The very same doctors who think "you don't get celiac at age 50" --- actually you usually don't "get" it at 50 --- it's BEEN there for years & years & years UNDIAGNOSED.

*edited to add jestgar*
  • 1


#813934 Please Help.....bloated

Posted by on 26 July 2012 - 10:59 AM

Are you eating anything which contains soy? Soy can cause big bloat problems.
  • 1


#812575 Some gluten-free Bread May Not Be Gluten Free!

Posted by on 21 July 2012 - 04:48 PM

Also quoting from your ref. to the Livestrong article:

If you have celiac disease, your body can't safely digest gluten from wheat, rye and barley. However, the zein form of gluten in corn is safe for individuals with celiac disease.



And:

However, the gluten found in corn will not cause this autoimmune response and your villi remain healthy.




And the references for the article are:


Celiac Sprue Association: Treatment of Celiac Disease
National Foundation for Celiac Awareness: The Gluten-Free Diet
Celiac Sprue Association: Gluten-Free Diet: Grains and Flours
The University of Chicago Celiac Disease Center: Gluten-Free Diet
MayoClinic.com: Gluten-Free Diet



DW in NYC, please know that we are not against you. We are aware people & are not being "hoodwinked" on the subject of corn.

I really think you are upset right now & more than a little anxious. This DOES happen when newly gluten free. As has already been mentioned part of gluten withdrawal is brain fog &; I think perhaps you are getting a bit mixed up. I do not say this to infuriate you! I know this is true b/c I had it; and sooooo many others here went through it. Please try to calm down &; look at this subject on a new day in a new light.

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  • 1


#812187 I Got Officially Dx'd Today

Posted by on 19 July 2012 - 05:36 PM

Thanks everybody!!!!!


Before I forget --- the doc actually said to me that the testing for celiac was so inaccurate & there is a too large % of false negatives in the celiac panel as well as a worse % for the dh biopsy. And then he went on to talk about how the endoscopy misses so many celiacs also. It was like he had been reading this board & saying all the things we say! I was stunned to say the least.

Yes, IH, it is incredibly validating to be told what we already know.

But I'll tell you guys --- it's so weird --- I suppose I should be "over the moon" but the truth is that I was perfectly content & quite comfortable with being self dx'd. I'm sort of a rebel if you will and I did not go with the intent of getting a dx. I only brought all those records & such to get him to take me seriously enough to agree to run the tests I knew I needed & so many have had problems getting their doc to run. I did not have a single doubt in my mind that I was celiac with dh. And I could live with that forever. And woe be unto the person who doubted me. I would tell ppl I had an official dx with no problem if they should be "that kind". And seriously, even if you end up in the hospital ---- when have you ever had to prove you had a dx of this or that or the other disease in your entire life? They don't ask you for documentation of your dx. Do they ask you for proof you are diabetic? No. You say it, you ARE it.

Just like life isn't it? When you don't give a darn about having an official dx, one drops right in your lap. Yet some search & search & search to get an official dx & can't get one no matter what. Life's weird that way.


  • 2


#812158 Please Take A Peek For Me?

Posted by on 19 July 2012 - 03:05 PM

Everything you have described IS consistent with celiac! Your friend doesn't know what she's talking about just like so many doctors don't know. We've had umpteen hundred overweight ppl here who have been told they can't possibly be celiac b/c celiacs are skinny. THEN we've had another umpteen hundred ppl on here who are skinny who were told they are just anorexic b/c celiac is RARE. 1 in 130 ppl is NOT rare!

TRUST YOURSELF!

No one knows your body like you do --- NO ONE.

And expect lots more ppl to be skeptical & they will ask you if you have a Dr. dx. You know what? Just tell them you do. Shut them up. The riot is THEY probably have celiac & don't know it.
There is also something known as "silent celiac" where the person has NO outward symptoms at all but still the damage is being done inside them & it's real. There are a # of them on this board who found out completely by chance getting tested for something else. Furthermore, ppl with dh tend not to have GI symptoms or GI symptoms which are not severe --- that's b/c it's in our skin but our guts are still being damaged.
  • 1


#811570 No Iodized Salt In Hormel Products

Posted by on 17 July 2012 - 05:53 AM

I called Hormel yesterday to ask if they use iodized salt in their Cure 81 Classic Dinner Ham. 1-800-523-4635
The lady read from their company statement that they do not use iodized salt in ANY of the Hormel products.

So those of you avoiding iodine can feel good about Hormel.
  • 2


#811085 Celiac And Time

Posted by on 14 July 2012 - 06:28 PM

I'll go with eatmeat & say I know from personal experience that you can go 55 , well, no, my hubs is 64, years without knowing you are celiac.

And we eat whole foods too. Our food bills went down also.
  • 1


#810864 Am I Hurting Myself?

Posted by on 13 July 2012 - 03:21 PM

YES! You are doing damage. Your reaction is no indicator of the damage being done. You need to be vigilant --- very vigilant! This is serious business & every time you get glutened or cc'd then you risk your health -- now & in the future.

I would NEVER say to myself that it's okay for me to get cc'd to the point of 20ppm --- NEVER! That is for testing purposes of gluten free food & does not mean that we can gauge how much cc equals 20ppm.
  • 1