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The Grey Science of Nutrition in a Black and White world of Genetics or Why Vitamin Test often Fail to Give us a Black and White Anwser



The Grey Science of Nutrition in a black and white world of Genetics and disease or the Elegant Neat IE

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Key method to (uncontrolled) inflammation in the body or How/Why low micronutrients IE Vitamins and

restoring micronutrients aka(B-Vitamins) are key to maintaining good GI health or Why Vitamin Deficiency Test

often fail to give us a black and white answer.

The Purpose of this Blog post Is To Educate for “To Educate is to Free” for those who want to know and would

try a Vitamin for their health…(sorry about the formatting I will endeavor to add breaks but the flow of the matter

might not be concise)

This Posterboy blog post is to encourage you to be tested for a B-Vitamin deficiency…but I betting you won’t test low…

Through my research on Nutrients/Vitamins/Minerals IE Nutrients I with other deep researchers have come

to similar opinions from different perspectives or journeys…

For now …I just wanted to float the idea…of an “Elegant” theory of supplementation and how it can help

people’s GI problems…. Last time I spoke of KIA’s and Jaguar’s…

This time I am writing/speaking on “The Grey Science of Nutrition”…referring to an early DRAFT version

of  a “White” paper (new idea) not spoken or discussed before….

This will be wrong as much as right hence….the Grey Science…thought provoking ideas…

though while sound in their logic and reasoning….totally unproven as to the science…

the difference between an Hypothesis… and a theory…

Even good working theories can take years let’s say 20+ years for this model/example…

to be proven more than a good hypothesis…

I will refer you to the “hormone smatter” site if you want to know more about Thiamine…which I will cite at the end

regarding how and why vitamin deficiency test often fail us....

Where they will say similar things …only having Thiamine aka B1 as their focus…

I have spoken about my experience with Niacin aka B3 here before so I will not belabor that point now…

What I want to discuss/talk about is how these B-Vitamins B1,B2, B3 together ----

work in a neat/elegant way to help control our immune system…

Without which our immune system becomes disordered…IE attacks itself….

B3 was an easy target….because without it you will die…it is a medical fact…

A short summary of why this is so can be seen here by a 2nd Year biology student that says it well

you find “Pellagra in unexpected places” today every where are bodies needs energy…

eventually Pellagra will show up…


Described here as “Pellagra: A Non-Eradicated Old Disease”


But you do not have Pellagra but more like Pellagra Sine Pellagra aka Ariboflavinosis

or a severe Riboflavin deficiency…

Without energy…we can’t manage our bodies properly and stress kills us…but it maims us first…

We all know stress kills but rarely do we think of it maiming us.

“Fight or Flight” right! Well all these fleeing or fighting causes use to use up great amounts of energy

(think Adrenaline and a young child lifting a car).

Our body has a instant decision to make.  Think for yourself when your GI flares up …

are not you going through some personal stress in your life.

Who has ever heard of the phrase – “A place for everything and everything in its place”

We like for things to look neat and be neat most of the time right???
When we are low in B-Vitamins our bodies place for things get’s disordered…

More importantly it should make sense to us IE be in black and white. We want to be able to find things

in a moment’s notice.  And why nutrition is a “Grey Science”

Admit it you have gone to google and typed in a few symptoms on webmd etc (web) and diagnosed

yourself of the latest plague to hit the airways.

But seriously, the medical community does this almost to the extreme.

If you have xxx, then it is yyy because zzz happens when you are allergic, sick, etc ad naseum.
They are called “keys” in the medical community.

That is why the doctor in 15 minutes can diagnose low body temperature as a thyroid problem

because it is our thermostat…but nutrition rarely can be reduced to just one thing/Vitamin right?

But We want these quick hits.  Because it make’s sense and is easy(ier) to diagnose that way.

But what if a disease is more general in scope say malaise (celiac)/NCGS or has a possible nutrition

base then it get complicated (messy) more test’s (keys) are needed to see which one fits.

The problem with Celiac disease today is there are many “keys” than can fit in the door and seemingly

all the keys work.  200 symptom’s all least by some estimates.

So it can be hard if you are not looking at the right key’s to determine if have the right diagnosis. …

IBS, Chrons, NCGS etc…. The problem with this solution is the more (longer) the doctor/practitioner/clinician

looks for the right key the more their patients suffers.

The “key” solution works fine if the medical problem is “Neat”.

“ A place (key/symptom) for Everything and everything in it’s place.”

But those of who have ever been diagnosed with Celiac disease or a gluten allergy know

it is anything but “Neat”. It is a very messy process at times.

But if you find/are a “good” doctor/practitioner/clinician who has been through the process

with another patient then luckily your diagnosis goes more smoothly.  Or not?

Maybe they haven’t learned the keys yet.  They have seen them before maybe. 

IBS, NCGS, Celiac Disease, UC etc all look a lot of like.

Now remember for the most part these are all “general” practitioner’s.  They have a lot of keys to juggle.

And after a while they all look the same. Especially if it is a “sprue” tropical or non-tropical in nature disease like Celiac is.

According to the medical dictionary “sprues” are a chronic form of malabsorption syndrome Time for a little vocabulary lesson

chronic what does – Chronic mean?

According to google dictionary “(of an illness) persisting for a long time or constantly recurring.” …

most doctor’s will call it chronic if it lasts more than 6 months.

So now we have a disease/syndrome of symptom’s (more on that later) that does not fit a “neat” picture

in fact it can be very messy for the patient at times (and the clinician) who is doing his/her best to help

you one key at a time. INSTEAD of 15 minutes it might take 5 to 10 years until a  doctor/practitioner/clinician

makes sense of all his or her keys.  The fact that the problem is chronic “of an illness persisting for a long time

or constantly relapsing” tells him/her that she has not found the right key yet right???

Is there a better way more Elegant way?

(The Answer is YES there is – It is called Vitamins/Nutrition)

Disease need not be CHRONIC when one understands the underlying cause.

Indeed I believe we need got to all the way back to the root cause of nutrition — Pellagra Sine Pellagra

presenting as digestive disorder which is healed (put in to remission) with supplementation in as little as 3 to 4 months

depending on how many times a day it (B-complex) is taken.

Knowledge is power as they say….use this new found knowledge to have your doctor test for B-Vitamin deficiencies

is all I ask …. have them test for Vitamin B1, B2, B3 you might be surprised…or not depending on what you expect to find...

or how well the test(s) are done...

The researchers where who said “Pellagra, an Almost‐Forgotten Differential Diagnosis of Chronic Diarrhea:

More Prevalent Than We Think”


That is too Elegant to theorize/propose/diagnose Vitamins’ (more correctly the lack thereof) as the (possible) cause

of (Celiac) disease/GI/digestive problem’s?

Vitamins are the very definition of ‘elegant’ a nutrient needed in a minimum amount without which we become

sick and develop malaise, disease and syndromes (like Pellagra) or Pellagra Sine Pellagra presenting

as Celiac Disease or even Beri Beri etc).

See this research on a Thiamine deficiency in someone with IBS and Chronic Fatigue…

Entitled Thiamine and fatigue in inflammatory bowel diseases: an open-label pilot study.

The researchers were surprised to find it and your doctor probably will be too!

And the doctor’s can’t find there keys/studies in the medical record until more patients are diagnosed

with these Vitamin deficiencies in (More) GI patients….because a “small cohort” is not deemed to be medically significant

….you can change the future today by being tested for these Vitamin deficiencies…it is really up to you now!

But you we can educate them so they will begin looking! For this key nutrient Vitamin deficiency/dependency

for “To Educate is To Free” …the next generation….

But note: Pellagra did not happen in a uncomplicated way (single nutrient) IE elegant way but in complicated

Triad of nutrient deficiencies….a syndrome of symptom’s…from  a complex of Vitamins…

hence the “Grey Area” of Nutrition have left doctor’s/clinician’s  in the dark as to the true cause

of your syndrome of GI symptom’s…


**** Note: This is not medical advice.  I am not diagnosing, treating or recommending  you change your routine

before consulting your doctor but only advocating that nutrition needs to be rediscovered today as possible

cause of your GI problems….More testing will need to be performed to confirm this analysis….

I meant this to be shorter than it is but you can only cover so much in one blog post I guess.

It is important to note I do not NOW take Niacinamide or Riboflavin or Thiamine and have not for several years now.

If it (B-complex) is the missing ingredient/nutrient(s) you will get better UNLESS more stress/trauma occurs robbing

you of your God given burp indicating to you stress is now a problem again for you.

If it helps (you find you have these deficiencies) and you feel better…tell someone else who is not better yet…

get your doctor to do a key/study on your experience so future doctor’s will have the key/study in the medical

record to find that Pellagra Sine Pellagra or Pellagra or Beri Beri is more prevalent today than once realized…

presenting together (I believe) in the capstone disease Pellagra or Pellagra Sine Pellagra (without skin manifestations)

much more commonly…as It did in me…as/with Angular Cheilitis….

It (Ariboflavinosis) low Riboflavin could of presented with many other symptom’s…and I wouldn’t have and

(and doctors don’t) didn’t recognize it then…until it presented with a “Capstone” symptom…

with it’s many other earlier symptom’s most doctor’s (and myself) did not know Geographic tongue for instance

was an early sign of low Riboflavin aka Pellagra Sine Pellagra…


The earlier you recognize any disease/syndrome the more symptom’s you can spare yourself of…

Knowledge is power…pass it on…hopefully to your doctor ….and you have put your “key” diagnosis

in the medical record so other doctor’s can find their keys for the next patient…we can’t wait another 15 to 20 years…

(has been my thing) till this nutrition(al) knowledge filters down to the medical/clinical practitioner’s level….

I am not a doctor but I like most other sufferers have armed myself with knowledge.  

I studied every day diligently for 4+ years before the Lord being my help ….

I was able to figure out I had a Vitamin deficiency (many reallly)…

now it is up to those still suffering to put it in the/your medical record(s) for others doctor’s

to find it in the future! In black and white!

Praise be to God! To those who hear and listen.

2 Tim 2:7 “Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things” this included.

2 Cor 1:3,4 3)Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies,

and the God of all comfort;  4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them

which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God

Posterboy by God’s Grace,


This Posterboy blog post is/was to encourage you to be tested for a B-Vitamin deficiency…

but I betting you won’t test low…but I hope and pray you will get tested...to see if (it) is happening...and

if you only needed a test to diagnose you...why wouldn't you do it...even a low normal test can be helpful to guide

you...in your journey back to health....right now I am low normal in Vitamin D...but I didn't know until I got tested...

See this Hormones Matter blog post about why most people (even when low in Thiamine) will test normal…


the same is true for Riboflavin (and Niacin often) as well….depending on the factor you used in the test …

a deficiency might show as being normal… see this study in the UK…


factor’s have not (at the time of their test (yet)) been standardized to determine what constitutes a

Vitamin deficiency (for many B-Vitamins)...so we guess often...(at least when it comes to B-2 aka Riboflavin)

though we know what to test for...

soooooo many people go undiagnosed……they (UK researchers) estimated as many as 1/3 of the (UK) population might

have a “hidden” deficiency depending on the “factor” used to determine a Riboflavin deficiency….etc…

Note: I can't tell how much a cow weighs by looking at it...I have to have it tested/weighed to see if my guess is accurate...

and neither will you be able to "guess" what deficiency (if any) you have without being tested for them...

I wish everybody well....I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.

I must stop for now...but good luck and God speed on your continued journey...and if you do test low at least then you will





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It took me a while to get to it but - once  again - your theory that “ Pellegra” causes Celiac and we can all be cured of Celiac with lots of vitamins.  I had plenty of niacin and B vitamins but I still got Celiac.  

I would like anyone who reads this far to know that this is just a guy’s blog and ramblings. It is not necessarily the view of c dot com.  Celiac dot com likes to offer people a place to vent, discuss,  ask questions, and even ramble.  ?

Posterboy - I do not require nor want a response. 

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Undiagnosed or poorly-managed people with celiac disease may be deficient in vitamins and minerals.  I was iron deficient (oddly nothing else) when I was diagnosed.    My doctor recommended an iron supplement just until my iron levels improved.  Once they improved, I stopped  taking a supplement and focused on getting my iron from food sources.  But with healing and a proper well-balanced and varied diet, taking any supplementation may not be necessary.  They might if you have a condition like my autistic cousin who only likes to eat orange or yellow foods only (a challenge for her parents).  Celiacs or those with malabsorption illness need follow-up care.  Doctors can help determine vitamin or mineral deficiencies with lab tests.  Do not forget that all leading celiac research centers and support groups recommend follow-up care like this: 


As far as pellagra goes, if you google “Celiac Disease Pellagra”, the first google page shows only your posts/blog (congratulations on making the first page which is a coveted advertising achievement) and one documented case of celiac disease and pellagra.  ONE.  Pellagra used to be a serious issue when poor people were not properly preparing corn which was their main dietary staple (these were not native populations).    It can also be found in patients who are alcoholics too.  Maybe you should blog on a venue that is directed to alcoholics or groups that help underdeveloped or food poor countries.  You might actually be helping more people since there has only been one case of pellagra and celiac disease.  I am being sincere.  I am sure there might be a few more cases of celiac disease and pellagra , but it is rare.  Crunch the numbers.  

Read this about vitamins.  Researchers are now questioning the value of all the supplements we buy.  Do they really work for most?  



Edited by cyclinglady

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On 11/23/2019 at 1:21 PM, cyclinglady said:

Undiagnosed or poorly-managed people with celiac disease may be deficient in vitamins and minerals

On 11/23/2019 at 1:21 PM, cyclinglady said:

But with healing and a proper well-balanced and varied diet, taking any supplementation may not be necessary.

Cyclinglady et Al,

That is all I am saying newly diagnosed Celiac's should be tested for these deficiency's....I know I wasn't...

I actually think it is more likely Arbiflavinosis aka Pellagra Sine Pellagra than full blown Pellagra...

This sciencedirect article explains the main difference(s)...


Many newly diagnosed Celiac's are already low in Vitamins when they are diagnosed...


Low B-Vitamin status can be triggered by medicine's like a round of Antibiotic's for example....I think it happened to me recently when I took a Sulfa antibiotic...

Here is an example of where it has happened in a Chron's patient...


If it is happening in Chron's it is probably happening Celia'c too and nobody has associated the risk???

I just know people need to be tested to see if it is happening to them...

I know I had Pellagra Sine Pellagra once because I had Angular Cheilosis that got better with Riboflavin supplementation...but since I was never tested for it...it is not in my medical record(s)...my doctor's brilliant advice was to stop licking my lips.

I never developed full blown Pellagra (with pervasive skin issues) and I think we are in agreement most wont'....but since PSP can/does happen alot without (intense) skin involvement(s) ....most people never develop past PSP...we have a safett net...good sources of protein in our diet...

this science direct link explains why this is soo....

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/riboflavin-deficiency quoting from the bottom left paragraph on this topic...

Complicating Factors in the Etiology of Pellagra

Deficiency of Vitamins B2 and B6

"The enzyme kynurenine hydroxylase in the oxidative pathway of tryptophan metabolism is a flavoprotein, and hence its activity is impaired in riboflavin (vitamin B2) deficiency. The enzyme kynureninase is pyridoxal phosphate-dependent, and its activity is impaired in vitamin B6 deficiency. This means that deficiency of either vitamin B2 or B6 will reduce the rate of oxidative metabolism of tryptophan and hence the rate of formation of quinolinic acid and NAD. If the intake of tryptophan is anyway marginal, this could well precipitate pellagra."

Because we have high quality protein sources most wont’ develop Pellagra but the  disease development stops with Pellagra Sine Pellagra…aka Arbiflavinosis…

Here is a general link on Riboflavin for other who might or want to know more about PSP aka Arbiflavinosis...


The best I can do for anyone is to recommend they be tested….for this deficiency…and why I encourage/encouraged others to get tested to see if your/their medicine(s) (particularly a round of antibiotics as a common example) have triggered an undiagnosed B-Vitamin deficiency in you/others who might be reading this.

For some reason I am low normal again in Vitamin D ....despite having caught up two or three times before...I wouldn't know this if I had not insisted on being tested again...

Sadly after care for Celiac's are poor....testing is important to see if you still have these deficiencies...

I hope every body has a good  Thanksgiving!

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.


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We both agree that undiagnosed celiacs could have deficiencies as well as non-compliant celiacs!  I would not worry about becoming  deficient  after a course of antibiotics.  The body is pretty resilient.  

As winter approaches, get into the sun!  I read something about sitting under LED lights.  Something worth investigating.  

Enjoy your Thanksgiving!  

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