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Nomi2

Do Wild Oats contain Gluten?

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We are a new business making raw, gluten-free, organic, local, nutritious and delicious, super-seed & veggie  crackers. They are flax based and on opening a new bag from a new supplier we noticed a few wild oats in the flax mix.

We've not used this stock as we want to check the safety out first before using or sending back. Other than this the flax is of the highest quality.

Does anyone out there have any answers? 

Many thanks!

Nomi

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3 hours ago, Nomi2 said:

We are a new business making raw, gluten-free, organic, local, nutritious and delicious, super-seed & veggie  crackers. They are flax based and on opening a new bag from a new supplier we noticed a few wild oats in the flax mix.

We've not used this stock as we want to check the safety out first before using or sending back. Other than this the flax is of the highest quality.

Does anyone out there have any answers? 

Many thanks!

Nomi

It worries me that you label products gluten-free but don't seem to really understand  what gluten is.  If you use this flax that is contaminated with something - you believe its oats, but it could be anything.  Will you update the ingredient lists on your products to reflect that they now contain oats?  I really think its irresponsible to use an "unclean" product/ingredient in a product.  If there are brown specks in the sugar - do you still use it?  I hope not.  I think you have a moral, maybe a legal, responsibility to provide safe products to your customers.

 It sounds like you are trying to make a healthy and pure product and I think the part of the market you are aiming for expects a certain "purity" to the crackers.  

 

I would send the product back and ask them a few questions about their manufacturing practices.

Edited by kareng

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I think Nomi is here to try to improve things in their store. It is doubtful that a few oat flakes would convey enough gluten to cause the flax to be dangerous to someone with celiac disease, as pure oats are gluten-free anyway (they can get contaminated by wheat, but a few flakes could not contain enough for that, especially after you pulled them out.

For the bigger picture, looking for ways that your store can prevent this, and other forms of contamination, is a great way to go, but it does take some work (which it appears that you are committed to doing).

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I think I didn't say that right.  I am not worried about the gluten that probably isn't attached to some wild oats.  I worry that a company that is claiming their food is gluten-free, doesn't know what is gluten-free and is asking people on a forum. It makes me wonder if they are like a few other companies we have seen and are using spelt (as an example) and thinking its gluten-free.   I also worry about a place that would use an ingredient that has a problem with it.  

 

I work in a bakery.  We would never use a product that isn't right when we open the bag.  

Also, if you are using nuts and seeds, you might check with the manufacturer and make sure they are considered gluten-free.  For some reason, a lot of nuts seem to have disclaimers that they might contain wheat from processing.

Edited by kareng

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Wow. I hope kareneng was just having a bad day.... in looking for assistance a character assassination was totally unexpected. Intimating that we're irresponsible or immoral is not helpful - nor true. 

Thank you Admin for recognizing that we are indeed trying to be responsible in asking some questions here on this forum.

As I said, we are not using the product in question. In speaking to the company who grows and sells the flax, they told us it was wild oats. How it got there, I am still awaiting a reply. However, we will be sending it back.

We do our utmost to make sure all of our food is of the highest quality and though this flax was recommended to us as being that, this was something we've not encountered before.

My understanding is: oats are naturally gluten-free (we're also making a granola bar with gluten free oats)  and the brands that are not gluten-free are due to the plants they're processed in also processing gluten grains etc. Am I correct?

We make everything in a gluten-free designated kitchen using organic and local ingredients. It is our company's mandate to always be diligent in our processing - hence my question.

Thank you for your helpful replies.

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Nomi2 said:

Wow. I hope kareneng was just having a bad day.... in looking for assistance a character assassination was totally unexpected. Intimating that we're irresponsible or immoral is not helpful - nor true. 

Thank you Admin for recognizing that we are indeed trying to be responsible in asking some questions here on this forum.

As I said, we are not using the product in question. In speaking to the company who grows and sells the flax, they told us it was wild oats. How it got there, I am still awaiting a reply. However, we will be sending it back.

We do our utmost to make sure all of our food is of the highest quality and though this flax was recommended to us as being that, this was something we've not encountered before.

My understanding is: oats are naturally gluten-free (we're also making a granola bar with gluten free oats)  and the brands that are not gluten-free are due to the plants they're processed in also processing gluten grains etc. Am I correct?

We make everything in a gluten-free designated kitchen using organic and local ingredients. It is our company's mandate to always be diligent in our processing - hence my question.

Thank you for your helpful replies.

 

 

 

Sorry.  Sometimes I am too blunt.  And I have seen too many companies be irresponsible with the label of gluten free.

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Thank you Nomi2 for your diligence - I'm very sensitive and would feel safe eating your products!  

"Wild oats" is a slightly vague description.  There is more than one species in the oat genus that may be called a wild oat.  Regular oats do not contain gluten.  As you said, regular oats may be contaminated due to shared trucks/silos/equipment.  There is a small fraction of celiacs that react to a protein (that is not gluten) in oats.  The amount of that protein varies with the type of oats.  I can't find anything to tell me if wild oats would have more or less of that protein than regular oats.

In addition, gluten free oats may be created in more than one way.  For some manufacturers it means they take regular oats and sort them somehow to remove the kernels of wheat.  Others grow them under a purity protocol so that the oats don't have a chance of being contaminated with oats.

Hope this helps.

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Nomi2, Here is a link to some fantastic information about oats, celiac and gluten free. I think it's something you will want to learn about.

http://www.glutenfreedietitian.com/gluten-free-oats-produced-via-a-purity-protocol-or-mechanical-sorting-which-would-you-rather-eat/ Follow the links provided there.

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I know this topic also causes people to freak out, but we have reactions to oats because they are sprayed with round up before harvest, just like wheat, rye, and barley. Oats do not contain gluten, but cause a reaction with most celiacs. Corn, on the other hand, contains gluten, just like rice, but doesnt cause a reaction in most celiacs. Scientific and medical studies have proven that the chemical Glyphosate is the cause of celiacs disease. Gluten absorbs the Glyphosate when the crops are sprayed. Corn and rice are not sprayed with herbicides before harvest and are generally safe for celiacs because of it. I have done tons of research on Glyphosate and i am completely convinced that it is the cause of my problems, and not gluten. It would also explain why im getting sick from cranberries. I worked on cranberry marshes for 15 years where we sprayed toxic chemicals like roundup, guthion, diazinon, and many surfactants, which are extremely toxic. I still refer to my diet as gluten free even though i eat corn and rice gluten. But crops sprayed with round up all make me sick. I can't even use canola oil because its sprayed before harvest. My dr has even confirmed that i need to be on an organic gluten free diet.

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1 minute ago, Kurasz said:

I know this topic also causes people to freak out, but we have reactions to oats because they are sprayed with round up before harvest, just like wheat, rye, and barley. Oats do not contain gluten, but cause a reaction with most celiacs. Corn, on the other hand, contains gluten, just like rice, but doesnt cause a reaction in most celiacs. Scientific and medical studies have proven that the chemical Glyphosate is the cause of celiacs disease. Gluten absorbs the Glyphosate when the crops are sprayed. Corn and rice are not sprayed with herbicides before harvest and are generally safe for celiacs because of it. I have done tons of research on Glyphosate and i am completely convinced that it is the cause of my problems, and not gluten. It would also explain why im getting sick from cranberries. I worked on cranberry marshes for 15 years where we sprayed toxic chemicals like roundup, guthion, diazinon, and many surfactants, which are extremely toxic. I still refer to my diet as gluten free even though i eat corn and rice gluten. But crops sprayed with round up all make me sick. I can't even use canola oil because its sprayed before harvest. My dr has even confirmed that i need to be on an organic gluten free diet.

Please link to the studies that prove that glyphosate is the cause of Celiac.  From what I have seen, that has been looked at but hasn't been proven.

corn and rice " gluten" is a completely different protein than the ones that a Celiac reacts to.  The common useage of the word " gluten" means the protein found in wheat, rye and barley. 

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I dont know how to post links here. You can goolge "effects of Glyphosate on the human body" or Glyphosate and celiacs disease. Its not only linked to celiacs disease, but also Chrones disease, lupis, fibromyalgia, and almost every form of cancer.

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Hi Kurasz,

Glyphosate was discovered in 1970, celiac disease has been around for hundreds if not thousands of years.

Hi Nomi,

The word gluten the way it is used on this forum and by most celiacs is a protein in the wheat, rye and barley grains.  All grains contain a protein called gluten, but only these 3 commonly cause the celiac reaction.  However about 10% of celiacs also react to oat gluten.

In the USA there is an FDA rule about labeling products as gluten-free.  There has to be less than 20 ppm of gluten in a product for it to be labeled gluten-free in the USA.  I am not sure what the Canadian rule is, it may be stricter or more lenient.  Manufacturers can be fined for failing to ensure their gluten-free labeled products are at or below the threshold.

There are some test kits for gluten available.  Glutentox is one.  Tricia Thompson (gluten free watchdog) does testing on products that claim to be gluten-free.  https://www.glutenfreewatchdog.org/product/quaker-yellow-corn-meal-not-labeled-gluten-free/230  There are also labs that do the testing.

 

 

Edited by GFinDC

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12 hours ago, kareng said:

Sorry.  Sometimes I am too blunt.  And I have seen too many companies be irresponsible with the label of gluten free.

I don't think you are too blunt, Karen.  Really, who would approach a medical and lifestyle forum and ask about commercially safe food handling procedures?  Nice to ask, but really, are you going to listen to people who have no food product manufacturing experience?  Makes a person wonder if you are complying with local, state and federal rules and regulations.  

Your best bet would be to test your end product for gluten contamination, especially if you are not confident that your supply chain is pure.  Consider getting certified.   Contact your local or regional food associations like a milling association (grains) and other food associations/organizations.  Contact celiac associations for input.  Learn from reliable sources.  

I hope you have good liability insurance!  :)

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Actually, I do have some of that experience, but how would anyone know that unless they knew me?  Lol

 

Universities with an Agricultural program  can test for gluten.  It costs money, but they can give you a complete analysis of your product, too.  some stores will require that sticker that says calories, sodium , etc  if you want to sell in them.  So, if you are doing it anyway, get an official test for gluten.

Edited by kareng

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I am not sure it is helpful to criticize anyone who comes to this forum for help on any topic related to "gluten-free," or how they might be able to make their foods safer for celiacs. This is indeed why this forum exists, and certainly anyone who posts here will need to be able to sift through and evaluate any advice offered and apply it to their situation. In this thread I do see that some of Nomi's initial questions have been answered, and some good advice has been offered regarding testing.

Nomi may also look at a gluten-free certification organization like http://www.gfco.org/  which can go into far more detail with you, should you want such certification. 

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Does anyone remember the study a while back that found gluten contamination in store bought flours that would normally not be expected to contain gluten?  I am thinking they tested corn and rice for and found gluten contamination.  Anyway, the point is, products like corn meal may not be safe to use in Nomi's products even though there is no apparent reason to think they should be gluten contaminated.  Not saying Nomi's products use corn meal, but any product that is not certified gluten-free is suspect.  That leaves Nomi's company in the circumstance of testing their end product, or buying only certified gluten-free ingredients.

If the individual ingredient suppliers are providing certified gluten-free ingredients, they seem to bear some of the responsibility for possible problems with the end product.  If they aren't certified gluten-free ingredients, it would be Nomi's company that has to test and verify.

As long as we get safe gluten-free crackers, it's all the same to the munchers! :)  Although I'd prefer products from a company that does it's own testing myself.

 

Edited by GFinDC

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