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I want to share will all my Celiac cyberspace friends what I found out about SOY. I thought I was getting better gluten & dairy free and replaced SOY as a major part of my diet. After almost 5 years of living gluten & dairy free I developed major THYROID problems I believe are from SOY. It is my opinion... but read for yourself and draw your own conclusions.

I welcome others throughts and views on this so we all can understand this better.

www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/Soy%20Allergens.html

www.thyroid-info.com/articles/soydangers.htm

www.mercola.com/forms/whole_soy_story.htm

www.emedicine.com/ped/topic2128.htm

www.ithyroid.com/soy.htm

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/soyinfo/a/soy_p.htm

www.foodallergy.org/allergens/soy.html

www.ehponline.org/members/2002/suppl-3/349-353doerge/ehp110s3p349.pdf

www.zianet.com/desertskies/AvoidSoy.pdf

http://ratical.com/ratville/soydangers.pdf

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http://tuberose.com/Soy.html

I've been on a mission to inform others about soy for a year now. Thanks for bringing it up again. People wonder why our country has had such an increase in thyroid trouble over the last decade... they can attribute it to the use of SOY in our diets. I'd rather rid my pantry of gluten any day than try to eradicate SOY from my shelves! Soy is in everything..... But- I did get rid of it! Kinnikinnick is almost completely SOY free now... they were working on being completley SOY free, so they may be now. Also, Hellman's Or BestFoods Mayo now comes with Canola oil and is soy free for those interested in ridding themsleves of SOY.

Scarier still, is the approval of SOY in our children's school lunches. Because it is considered a better source of protein than fat filled meats, they can put it into school lunches almost 100%. Trying to thin down our kids but burning out their thyroids.... :( When we lived in Virginia for a year, one of the things that really bothered me was that the schools (most of them) had NO RECESS.... so stuff the kids full of fat free soy and take away their recess???? This world is nuts.

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I'm glad I'm not the only one who tries to tell people about the dangers of soy. Please, PLEASE don't feed it to your children, except in small amounts like soy sauce. Especially don't give it to little boys. If women take it to balance out their female hormones, what do you think it will do to developing little boys?

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I gave up soy about a month ago and my chronic pain is 50% less. I used it as dairy gives me asthma and had lots more when I left work. I think it may have caused my possible thyroid problems. What tests/results symptoms do you have Ms sillyak? Thanks for the links.

Donna

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Guest cassidy
I want to share will all my Celiac cyberspace friends what I found out about SOY. I thought I was getting better gluten & dairy free and replaced SOY as a major part of my diet. After almost 5 years of living gluten & dairy free I developed major THYROID problems I believe are from SOY. It is my opinion... but read for yourself and draw your own conclusions.

I looked at the articles posted. My question is, how is soy labeled on food? Is it like gluten where there are tons of different terms that mean something contains gluten, or is it always the ingredient soy?

I have never looked for soy in things. Is it in a lot of items? I tend to eat mostly organic foods, due to my gluten issue, have you found soy in these types of things or in just traditional processed foods?

Thanks for the info.

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Soy is called soy.

It's also called veggie broth in many things also in TUNA FISH packs.

It's in chocolate bars called lecithin -- soy lecithin.

It can be called emulsifier and/or artificial flavoring.

I wish I know about soy before I did the damage to my thyroid. It goes back for me to birth I only made the connection a short while ago. My mom has since passed on but my 85-year old daddyO winters with me and he was telling me all these things. My darling mother had my daddyO chasing all around South Beach Miami looking for Soy MILK, or Goat's milk beacuse I was allergic to MILK as an infant. And my mother didn't breast feed me. A bad no no. Who knew it would cause me life threatning illnesses and celiac disease later in life.

Don't listen to doctors -- listen to your body!

Oh I also am thinging of changing my screen name from Ms_Sillyak_Screwed to "Soy_is_Poison" [giggle]

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Oh, yikes, I am reading only the first article now (the one from Nexusmagazine) and found this!

BOWELLED OVER

People diagnosed with "allergic colitis" suffer from bloody diarrhoea, ulcerations and tissue damage, particularly to the sigmoid area of the descending colon. The leading cause in infants is cow's milk allergy, but 47 to 60 per cent of those infants react the same way to soy formula. Curiously, inflammatory changes in the mucus lining of the intestines appear even in infants who seem to be tolerating soy: no diarrhoea, no hives, no blood in the stool or other obvious allergic signs. One study showed that clinical reactions occurred in 16 per cent of the children on soy formula, but that histological and enzymological intestinal damage occurred in an additional 38 per cent of the children. This second group showed damage to the intestinal cells and tissues as viewed under a microscope and through blood tests, indicating increased levels of xylose (an indigestible sugar used to diagnose "leaky gut" and other intestinal disorders). The researchers also found depleted levels of sucrase, lactase, maltase and alkaline phosphatase—evidence that the infants' digestive capacity was compromised, their stress levels were increased and immune systems challenged.92

Most gastrointestinal problems connected to soy formula involve non-IgE delayed immune reactions.93 However, local IgE reactions may contribute to these problems by triggering the formation of immune complexes that alter the permeability of the gut mucosa. As C. Carini, the lead author in an Annals of Allergy study published in 1987, wrote, "The resultant delayed onset symptoms could be viewed as a form of serum sickness with few or many target organs affected".94

The baby's small intestine is at special risk. Scanning electron microscopy and biopsies have revealed severe damage to the small intestine, including flattening and wasting away of the projections (known as villi) and cellular overgrowth of the pits (known as crypts). Allergic reaction may not be the sole cause here, as the observed destruction dovetails with that caused by soy antinutrients known as lectins and saponins, with the lectins possibly doing double duty as allergic proteins (see chapters 14 and 15). Villi are the projections clustered over the entire mucous surface of the small intestine where nutrient absorption takes place. Flattening and atrophy of the villi lead to malnutrition and failure to thrive, with a clinical picture very similar to that found in children and adults afflicted with coeliac disease.95–97

Coeliac disease is a serious malabsorption syndrome most commonly associated with gluten (a protein fraction found in wheat and some other grains) and dairy intolerance. Few people know that there is also a connection with soy. Some adults with coeliac disease experience diarrhoea, headache, nausea and flatulence even on a gluten-free diet when they eat a tiny amount of soy. And a study of 98 infants and children with multiple gastrointestinal allergies revealed that 62 per cent had both soy and milk allergies and 35 per cent both soy and gluten.98, 99

They are saying that soy in susceptible people will also flatten the villi! And that a lot of people get the same reaction from soy and cows milk, or soy and gluten. Meaning, that celiacs who then use soy as a substitute for gluten containing flours might get the same reactions as they would from gluten, with the same damage, and will then look for gluten contamination, when soy is the culprit. Now I ask you: How many doctors and/or nutritionists know that?????????? Not many (if any) I'm sure.

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Ursula -- you are right. Thank you. You have helped me so much you have no idea. xo xo xo

When I had my food allergy tests SOY was so so high I couldn't believe my eyes. It was worse then anything else. I think I have continued to damage my body with soy for the past 5 years even if thought I have been gluten and dairy free... It's gonna take me a long time to heal my body.

We need to spread the word to our Celiac family here online before they get sicker and don't know why.

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Thanks so much for this. I replaced gluten containing products with soy containing ones and it came up on my York tests as me being intolerant to soy. I gave it up but have caved in a couple of times and had some really yummy gfdf chocolate cakes that contain soy. I end up feeling totally exhausted. I've been feeling incrediblly tired since being gluten-free and am waiting for the results of checks on my thyroid - I've had problems with an underactive thyroid in the past. Will post here as soon as I know. thanks so much for this thread - I def won't be having anymore soy!

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I learned about this years ago from my alternative med doctor. Scary, scary.

The most telling thing I think is that when my dad got diagnosed with stomach cancer, his doctors were adament that he avoid soy. I don't know, maybe it's harder to digest when you have stomach cancer, but I thought that that was really telling.

I try to avoid soy as much as I can, but it's hard. Margarine is soy. Mayo is soy. Crisco and every other store brand/off brand "vegetable" shortening is soy. "Vegetable" oil is soy. Even a lot of peanut butter is soy - Peter Pan peanut butter isn't if you can find it.

I use canola oil now, and canola mayo most of the time. I don't bake as much as I used to, of course, but will have to use Crisco for certain recipes during the holidays if I want to try to recreat them gluten-free. I figure I'm getting a lot less soy that I would if I didn't try to sub as much as possible.

Nancy

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There seems to be a mixed message amoung scientists. Is soy good or bad?

I'm certainly no expert, but from what I've read, a lot of the research on soy has been done in Asian countries. They usually ferment their soy products, which makes it more digestible and neutralizes acids (phytic acid, I think) that are harmful. The fact that their soy is fermented has been largely ignored. Also, a lot of research and health claims have been made by companies that stand to benefit from selling more of it.

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FYI...

Soy was one of the first foods/drinks that I associated with joint pain. I'm lactose intolerant and was using soy as a milk substitute. I was in my early 30's then. It was about ten years ago when the word out there was that soy mimics estrogen. I have never be able to take the birth control pill since it gave me terrible knee pain. (I could hardly walk up the stairs even in my 20's.)

I put two and two together to figure out that the soy I was drinking was causing my then knee pain. I switched to rice milk and started reading lables to stop all soy and felt better until the issues with gluten came up eight or so years later; bursitis in my shoulders and hips. I stopped gluten felt a little better and then figured out that other food intolerances were causing the pain as well. (My intestinal problems, bloating and gas, were much better after stopping gluten.)

I read a post somewhere on this site about the Paleo Diet. I googled it to find out more about it. It's what I am eating without even trying. Beans of any kind are not recommended. The foods on the Paleo Diet are the only ones that I can tolerate. I even feel so much better with taking salt out of my diet. (It's in the gluten free bread I eat, but I'm not salting my food anymore.) No legumes, night shade foods, tomatoes, peppers, egg plant, potatoes, and no sugar too. I am eating rice, otherwise I'd be down to nothing. There are lots of interesting pieces to read at this web site: http://www.paleodiet.com/.

Good luck with figuring out your food issues. Celiac.com has helped me so much.

Bye, Caperton

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Carrie, the only valid research I find in your links are the ones from sciencedirect, and they investigated fermented soy, which is actually healthy. All the rest are not to be trusted, as far as I am concerned. Especially not the ones from the vegetarian sites. Vegetarians don't WANT to believe that soy is not healthy, because they have been relying on soy for a lot of their protein intake! And their claims that soy protein is BETTER for you than meat protein is just plain untrue. That's what they want to believe, but wanting it to be true doesn't make it so.

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I'm sorry - but I think this is a little silly. Sooner or later we're going to start believing EVERYTHING is bad for us. Then what will we all eat?! Just because one person (or a few) have a reaction to soy doesn't mean it's "poison" to everyone. It just means that you can't tolerate it - just like we can't tolerate gluten. Gluten isn't bad for everyone - not one person in my family has any food allergies - not to soy, gluten, milk, etc. I'm the "lucky" one who got celiac. I, however, have NO other food intolerances. I don't believe, for one second, that soy is harmful to everyone. I'm sorry to hear when people have many food allergies. I can't imagine how hard it must make eating. So, I sympathize with those who seem to be allergic to soy - among our intolerance of gluten and other things. So, I guess I understand why you seem concerned and want everyone to know how soy affects you....but that doesn't mean it's going to hurt me.

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I'm sorry - but I think this is a little silly. Sooner or later we're going to start believing EVERYTHING is bad for us. Then what will we all eat?! Just because one person (or a few) have a reaction to soy doesn't mean it's "poison" to everyone. It just means that you can't tolerate it - just like we can't tolerate gluten. Gluten isn't bad for everyone - not one person in my family has any food allergies - not to soy, gluten, milk, etc. I'm the "lucky" one who got celiac. I, however, have NO other food intolerances. I don't believe, for one second, that soy is harmful to everyone. I'm sorry to hear when people have many food allergies. I can't imagine how hard it must make eating. So, I sympathize with those who seem to be allergic to soy - among our intolerance of gluten and other things. So, I guess I understand why you seem concerned and want everyone to know how soy affects you....but that doesn't mean it's going to hurt me.

Actually, from all the research I have done on soy over several years, it appears that UNFERMENTED soy is bad for everybody. Only fermented soy is safe to eat.

Now, some people have an immediate reaction to it, which can be fatal, while for others it takes years for the effects to show (like thyroid problems, for instance). But ultimately, people will pay for eating a lot of soy.

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I'm sorry - but I think this is a little silly. Sooner or later we're going to start believing EVERYTHING is bad for us. Then what will we all eat?! Just because one person (or a few) have a reaction to soy doesn't mean it's "poison" to everyone. It just means that you can't tolerate it - just like we can't tolerate gluten. Gluten isn't bad for everyone - not one person in my family has any food allergies - not to soy, gluten, milk, etc. I'm the "lucky" one who got celiac. I, however, have NO other food intolerances. I don't believe, for one second, that soy is harmful to everyone. I'm sorry to hear when people have many food allergies. I can't imagine how hard it must make eating. So, I sympathize with those who seem to be allergic to soy - among our intolerance of gluten and other things. So, I guess I understand why you seem concerned and want everyone to know how soy affects you....but that doesn't mean it's going to hurt me.

Some things were not meant to be eaten. Just because they found a way to mass produce a product, stirred it up into an "edible" paste, and stamped a positive lable on it (It's HEALTHY for you!)... doesn't make it true. It's nothing more than a cheap agricultural product that a sleazy company or two found a way to market to vulnerable consumers. Look at "non-stick" pans. Teflon is also on it's way out of this world. I've been telling all my friends for years not to buy nonstick pans, not to microwave food in those plastic containers ( put the food on a kitchen plate), and that Dupont is evil.... :rolleyes: FINALLY, after 12 years of my warnings, Dupont and their poison are under fire. Soy will be the same. And don't even get me started on those birth control patches.... There is plenty approved products out in our world that are harmful.... not just to some, but to damn near everyone. There are people who will still tell you cigarettes are not deadly... to EVERYONE, just leave the smokers alone... :o IMO, no one should smoke, and no one should use nonstick pans, and no female should use a birth control patch, and no one should consume soy products... it should be removed from chocolate, mayo and all the breads it's in.

oh, and mass poisonings of floride... I just read an article on the dangers of floride. I would not give my children floride drops when we lived in an area where the water was not floridated despite my dr's insistence that it was safe and recommended. Then, when we lived in a town where the drinking water was floridated, I used bottled... even for boiling spaghetti. I think it's a crazy crime to intentionally put floride into the drinking water. When will they stop that barbaric practice!? They even water crops with floridated water... how much floride do they think we "need" anyway?

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Thanks CARRIE for confusing the issue.
I am actually confused about the safety of soy, that is why I provided the links. I have found that some articles say that soy has negative effects on humans; however, I have read that soy can actually be good for humans, such as reducing the risk of cancer. I mean if soy can prevent cancer, then why wouldn't I eat it! If I'm not intolerant or allergic to soy, then why would eating soy be a bad thing if it prevented diseases such as cancer? I think more research needs to be done in order to convince me if soy is safe or not.

Carrie, the only valid research I find in your links are the ones from sciencedirect, and they investigated fermented soy, which is actually healthy.
I don't think that the first two articles are on fermented soy, but I could be wrong. I just did very quick searches to find those articles. I just wanted to point out that there appears to be some benefits to soy. Here are a few more articles:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...2&dopt=Citation

http://www.springerlink.com/(o1kqyc55l53xk...ults,1:100150,1

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/71/6/1705S

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/68/6/1375S.pdf

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As I made my way down this thread, I've felt worse and worse. I am a type one diabetic, and was unable to nurse my second baby as my diabetes got so dangerously out of control when I nursed my daughter after my first pregnancy (apparently the prolactin can wreak havoc on blood sugar control). I was advised by my endocrinologist to keep my kids away from milk for the first three years of their lives, as there is compelling evidence connecting early milk consumption and the appearance of type one diabetes. So, I put my infant son on soy formula, and he stayed on it for quite a while. Now I'm very concerned about him. My question is this, however: what do we advise diabetic mothers to do when they have a baby and cannot nurse? Staying off milk is very important to ward off early development of diabetes...but soy is apparently just as dangerous. What other choices could I have made? Ohhhhh, the guilt....

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Do you have references?

Here is one that supports *both* sides of the argument:

http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2000/300_soy.html

BUT, right now it seems that all scientific, controlled studies show that soy is BENEFICIAL.

There is some stirring, and some controversy that some components of soy MIGHT be "bad". Studies must be done to prove or disprove those claims.

I do have to comment about this quote from www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/Soy%20Allergens.html from the original poster, ms_sillyak_screwed.

QUOTE

If your child is allergic to peanuts, you must eliminate all soy as well as all peanuts from your child's diet. Your child's life may depend upon it.

ENDQUOTE

This is 100% UNTRUE. My son is anaphylaticly allergic to peanuts, even the smell of peanuts (and hence inhallation of protein) can and will kill him without advanced medical intervention. He has been consuming Soy for 4 years with no adverse effects. His Immunologist (One of the best and most active in Ohio) has told us that since he has no soy allergy soy is NOT a problem or issue from an immune perspective. He, nor anyone, has ever recommended eliminating soy as a condition of a peanut allergy. Just as proof, my son is at the top of his class, his reports come back with excellent marks, he is in the 90% for height and weight for his age. No other abnormalities, and since he has so many allergies, along with celiac, we (And his immunologist, and his pediatrician) watch his health and developmentVERY closely.

BUT, let's not take away from the effects of being allergic or intolerant to soy. The symptoms can be every bit as difficult to endure as celiac and gluten intolerance, and soy is very pervasive in the food industry.

Ursula, vegetarians are a GOOD source for opinions and effects on soy. Do you honestly think that people who take their health seriously enough to alter their diet to achieve a better standard of living would really continue to ingest a food item known to cause health problems just to "support the cause". I can't speak for everyone, but as for my family you are entirely incorrect.

Know what, I've heard that pollution, and some naturally occuring checmicals in the air we breathe cause cancer!!! Let's all run out and buy bottled air and breathe that instead!!!!

;-)

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