Feel worse after diagnose

[celiac1337]

I was diagnosed with celiac disease in june 2020. I had some symptoms like stomach pain and bloating. I have had a strict gluten-free diet since, and have not had any known accidents. My blood tests come back fine now. But my health has severely decreased. My stomach hurts constantly and I am much more bloated than before. Before starting a gluten-free I could eat everything I wanted, and didn’t have a reaction to anything. After I started eating gluten free, I became lactose intolerant, and I began reacting to other foods like pepperoni and cold meat. I have tried talking to several doctors, but none have had an answer to why this happened. It is normal to have lactose intolerance before starting a gluten-free diet when you have celiac disease, and when your intestines heal, the lactose intolerance goes away. For me it was the other way around. None of my doctors have had an answer to what I can do so that my pain decreases. It is hard to be at school because I am constantly in so much pain. Does anyone know why this happened and what I can do to make it better?

[trents]

You mention that pepperoni and cold meat give you problems. You might want to look up "meat glue" and the problems it causes for some celiacs. The meat glue in processed meats is very similar to gluten.

[celiac1337]

25 minutes ago, trents said:

You mention that pepperoni and cold meat give you problems. You might want to look up "meat glue" and the problems it causes for some celiacs. The meat glue in processed meats is very similar to gluten.

Thank you for the answer! I will look it up. Do you know if this means that I have to cut out all meat?

[trents]

Please understand that I am not definitively saying that meat glue is your problem. I'm just suggesting it could be based on what you shared. Meat glue is principally used in processed meats where shaping and molding of the product are involved, i.e., where the meat scraps are "pressed" into a shape for packaging. It would not be found in fresh meats such as steaks, chops, whole chickens, chicken breasts or drumsticks, whole hams, etc. Does this make sense?

Meat glue is a topic that has bee posted about on this forum. One of our members is a biochemist and shed some light on the issue and it's possible relation to celiac reactions.

Edited February 11, 2022 by trents

[celiac1337]

Just now, trents said:

Please understand that I am not definitively saying that meat glue is your problem. I'm just suggesting it could be based on what you shared. Meat glue is principally used in processed meats where shaping and molding of the product are involved, i.e., where the meat scraps are "pressed" into a shape for packaging. It would not be found in fresh meats such as steaks, chops, whole chickens, chicken breasts or drumsticks, whole hams, etc. Does this make sense?

Yes, I see! Thank you.

[trents]

Here is some information:

https://worldmedicinefoundation.com/health-news/widely-used-meat-glue-food-additive-may-cause-celiac-disease/

[Wheatwacked]

Keep a journal of what you are eating now. Gluten free does not mean healthy. Now that you are not bloated by gluten containing foods you may be noticing problems that were previously masked by the morphine like effect gluten has on some people. Most wheat products have supplemental vitamins and minerals that may not be in your adjusted diet. Your blood work is better, that proves the concept that gluten is toxic to you. It appears on average to take around two years to figure out what to eat by trial and error. You are not alone in that at first you feel better, 6 months to a year later you start to feel worse. My opinion is that you have used up your reserves of essential vitamins and minerals.

The key to recovery is not just removing things that bother you from your diet, but simultaneously replacing them with foods that make you feel better.

Here is a sample of my journal: http://nutrientlog.doodlesnotes.net/. It also has the minimum and upper limit nutrient RDA's for most that I've culled from NIH. The food nutrition data comes from the National Nutrition Database. https://www.ars.usda.gov/northeast-area/beltsville-md-bhnrc/beltsville-human-nutrition-research-center/methods-and-application-of-food-composition-laboratory/mafcl-site-pages/sr11-sr28/

[celiac1337]

7 hours ago, trents said:

Here is some information:

https://worldmedicinefoundation.com/health-news/widely-used-meat-glue-food-additive-may-cause-celiac-disease/

Thank you so much!

58 minutes ago, Wheatwacked said:

Keep a journal of what you are eating now. Gluten free does not mean healthy. Now that you are not bloated by gluten containing foods you may be noticing problems that were previously masked by the morphine like effect gluten has on some people. Most wheat products have supplemental vitamins and minerals that may not be in your adjusted diet. Your blood work is better, that proves the concept that gluten is toxic to you. It appears on average to take around two years to figure out what to eat by trial and error. You are not alone in that at first you feel better, 6 months to a year later you start to feel worse. My opinion is that you have used up your reserves of essential vitamins and minerals.

The key to recovery is not just removing things that bother you from your diet, but simultaneously replacing them with foods that make you feel better.

Here is a sample of my journal: http://nutrientlog.doodlesnotes.net/. It also has the minimum and upper limit nutrient RDA's for most that I've culled from NIH. The food nutrition data comes from the National Nutrition Database. https://www.ars.usda.gov/northeast-area/beltsville-md-bhnrc/beltsville-human-nutrition-research-center/methods-and-application-of-food-composition-laboratory/mafcl-site-pages/sr11-sr28/

This really helps, thank you!

[knitty kitty]

11 hours ago, celiac1337 said:

I was diagnosed with celiac disease in june 2020. I had some symptoms like stomach pain and bloating. I have had a strict gluten-free diet since, and have not had any known accidents. My blood tests come back fine now. But my health has severely decreased. My stomach hurts constantly and I am much more bloated than before. Before starting a gluten-free I could eat everything I wanted, and didn’t have a reaction to anything. After I started eating gluten free, I became lactose intolerant, and I began reacting to other foods like pepperoni and cold meat. I have tried talking to several doctors, but none have had an answer to why this happened. It is normal to have lactose intolerance before starting a gluten-free diet when you have celiac disease, and when your intestines heal, the lactose intolerance goes away. For me it was the other way around. None of my doctors have had an answer to what I can do so that my pain decreases. It is hard to be at school because I am constantly in so much pain. Does anyone know why this happened and what I can do to make it better?

Celiac Disease  causes malabsorption which results in malnutrition.  The small intestine is damaged and Celiacs don't absorb enough vitamins and minerals.

You have cut out gluten.  Products made with wheat flour are required by law to be enriched with vitamins removed during processing.  You are no longer getting those vitamins.  You need to talk to your doctor about checking for vitamin and mineral deficiencies before you start supplementing.  Blood tests are not accurate measures for your body's stores of vitamin.  Blood tests usually reflect how much of a vitamin you've consumed in the previous twenty-four hours.  

Abdominal pain and bloating are classic symptoms of malnutrition.  Malnutrition can occur on a gluten free diet, especially if you eat a lot of processed gluten free facsimile foods.  Gluten free processed facsimile foods are not required to be enriched.  Hence you're not getting enough vitamins to digest foods properly.  

Thiamine is needed to turn carbohydrates, fats and proteins into energy and building blocks the body can use to heal. 

Thiamine deficiency can cause digestive problems because thiamine is needed to make digestive enzymes.  Thiamine is needed to process the protein and fat in the cold meat and pepperoni.  Digestive enzymes work at body temperature, hence cold meat can inactivate the digestive enzymes.

The World Health Organization (WHO) says a thiamine deficiency diagnosis can be made if, after taking 300 mg of thiamine over several days, there is improvement.  I had improvement within hours!  I took 300-100 mg thiamine hydrochloride and a B Complex.

There are eight B vitamins.  They work together to keep your body and brain functioning.  A B-Complex vitamin contains all eight.  There are four fat soluble vitamins (A, D, E, and K) that are needed.  And Vitamin C.  I supplemented these, too.

Please consult your doctor and a nutritionist who can help you replenish your vitamin deficiencies and teach you which foods are nutrient dense.  

Keep us posted on your progress! 

 

 

[celiac1337]

8 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

Celiac Disease  causes malabsorption which results in malnutrition.  The small intestine is damaged and Celiacs don't absorb enough vitamins and minerals.

You have cut out gluten.  Products made with wheat flour are required by law to be enriched with vitamins removed during processing.  You are no longer getting those vitamins.  You need to talk to your doctor about checking for vitamin and mineral deficiencies before you start supplementing.  Blood tests are not accurate measures for your body's stores of vitamin.  Blood tests usually reflect how much of a vitamin you've consumed in the previous twenty-four hours.  

Abdominal pain and bloating are classic symptoms of malnutrition.  Malnutrition can occur on a gluten free diet, especially if you eat a lot of processed gluten free facsimile foods.  Gluten free processed facsimile foods are not required to be enriched.  Hence you're not getting enough vitamins to digest foods properly.  

Thiamine is needed to turn carbohydrates, fats and proteins into energy and building blocks the body can use to heal. 

Thiamine deficiency can cause digestive problems because thiamine is needed to make digestive enzymes.  Thiamine is needed to process the protein and fat in the cold meat and pepperoni.  Digestive enzymes work at body temperature, hence cold meat can inactivate the digestive enzymes.

The World Health Organization (WHO) says a thiamine deficiency diagnosis can be made if, after taking 300 mg of thiamine over several days, there is improvement.  I had improvement within hours!  I took 300-100 mg thiamine hydrochloride and a B Complex.

There are eight B vitamins.  They work together to keep your body and brain functioning.  A B-Complex vitamin contains all eight.  There are four fat soluble vitamins (A, D, E, and K) that are needed.  And Vitamin C.  I supplemented these, too.

Please consult your doctor and a nutritionist who can help you replenish your vitamin deficiencies and teach you which foods are nutrient dense.  

Keep us posted on your progress! 

 

 

Thank you for such a detailed answer! How can you test for vitamin deficiency other than blood tests? I will definitely look in to thiamine and the vitamins. Thank you so much!

[trents]

2 hours ago, celiac1337 said:

Thank you for such a detailed answer! How can you test for vitamin deficiency other than blood tests? I will definitely look in to thiamine and the vitamins. Thank you so much!

Blood tests for vitamin deficiencies are not always helpful since they do not necessarily indicate how much of a vitamin is actually being taken into the tissues. Also, supplementing with some vitamins can mask deficiencies of others, such as folate supplementation masking B12 deficiency. Keep in mind also that the B vitamins are water soluble so there is no danger of overdosing with them. Best to just start using them and see if they help. Invest in a high potency B12 complex to start with. Costco's Nature Made brand is a good choice. Adding in about 5000IU of D3 is also a safe measure and vitamin D is commonly one of the deficiencies celiacs experience because of malabsorption issues.

[celiac1337]

13 minutes ago, trents said:

Blood tests for vitamin deficiencies are not always helpful since they do not necessarily indicate how much of a vitamin is actually being taken into the tissues. Also, supplementing with some vitamins can mask deficiencies of others, such as folate supplementation masking B12 deficiency. Keep in mind also that the B vitamins are water soluble so there is no danger of overdosing with them. Best to just start using them and see if they help. Invest in a high potency B12 complex to start with. Costco's Nature Made brand is a good choice. Adding in about 5000IU of D3 is also a safe measure and vitamin D is commonly one of the deficiencies celiacs experience because of malabsorption issues.

I see! I will start taking vitamins. Hopefully it will help.

[Wheatwacked]

Dietary Reference Intakes for Thiamin, Riboflavin, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Folate, Vitamin B12, Pantothenic Acid, Biotin, and Choline.   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK114324/

For RDI of choline, one needs to eat 4 large eggs or 15 ounces beef or 10 cups of cooked broccoli every day. "Most people in the United States consume less than the AI for choline."    https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Choline-HealthProfessional/

Does that make a breakfast of steak and eggs with hash brown potatoes a healthy food choice? Skip the pancakes and toast.

[Potato:] "It is a good source of vitamins B1, B3 and B6 and minerals such as potassium, phosphorus and magnesium, and contains folate, pantothenic acid and riboflavin. Potatoes also contain dietary antioxidants, which may play a part in preventing diseases related to ageing, and dietary fibre, which benefits health."   https://www.fao.org/potato-2008/en/potato/factsheets.html

Could it be that since Richard Nixon and the Green Revolution, we've been scammed?

Quote

In 1862, Adolph Strecker (1822–1871) (Figure 2), recently having moved to the University of Tübingen as a Professor, was characterizing the composition of bile from pig and ox, and found that lecithin from bile, when boiled, generated a new nitrogenous chemical that Strecker named “choline”.   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4422379/

It is important in processing fat in the liver, nerve signal transmission, cell structure and along with folate controls homocysteine levels (independent indicator of vascular health) and in fetuses helps prevent neural tube defects together with folate. Mostly ignored until 1970's when they discovered lack of choline in parenteral feeding caused Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease in those patients.

 

[knitty kitty]

15 hours ago, celiac1337 said:

Thank you for such a detailed answer! How can you test for vitamin deficiency other than blood tests? I will definitely look in to thiamine and the vitamins. Thank you so much!

Some vitamins can be measured by checking a twenty-four hour urine collection for vitamin by products (like measuring exhaust fumes from cars too see how well they utilize gasoline, lol).  These are expensive and rarely done.  There are no tests at all for some B vitamins.  😿 The best way is to take a good B Complex with all eight B vitamins and look for improvement.  😸

Edited February 13, 2022 by knitty kitty
Typo

[Eloise2022]

There could be more going on. I went gluten-free in Aug 2019. Within a few days the sores on my tongue were gone. Joint pain I’d considered normal went away within a couple weeks,but mainly I was excited to finally be living without mouth pain. The honeymoon lasted about 6 mos. And then I started realizing I was having subtle swelling inside my upper lip when I ate certain foods - humus, crackers, nuts, dried fruit, chocolate, coffee, etc. The nutritionist I was working with kept pushing nuts, beans, and supplements. Over 12 mos, this progressed to the point where I was trying to figure out what I COULD eat. I lost over 10% of my weight. On worse days the swelling was painful blisters/hives. I also began feeling mentally weird. Finally an oral medicine specialist referred me for patch testing. I learned I had a nickel allergy. Most likely this already existed as I’d previously been diagnosed with oral lichen planus, a little known symptom. A gluten-free diet can be extremely high in Ni due to the replacements we make: breads, crackers, pancakes made of bean and nut flours, nut milk (if you also have problems with dairy), and snacks of nuts, beans & seeds (to increase nutrition). To be healthy, I’d also started eating fish or shellfish almost daily - more high Ni foods. I’m now on a Ni elimination diet, which also excludes supplements as they can contain Ni as well. I know my symptoms are different from Celiac1337, but the only obvious symptom I had to gluten was oral. Most people with systemic Ni allergies have digestive and intestinal symptoms and external skin rashes. I’m not saying this is the problem described above, but the switch from a gluten based diet can be extreme in ways that we don’t even realize. Even kale is high in Ni (as well as potential allergens like salicylate). It’s probably best to get some help figuring out what you’re reacting to. Unfortunately it can be as difficult as getting a doctor to consider gluten in the first place; I lucked into the oral medicine dentist who started me down the right path. Hopefully someone can suggest the right place to start (gastrointestinal immunology?). Hang in there.  Eloise

[Eloise2022]

Hi Celiac1337 - no need to read my stupid long post! The bottom line is that the switch from a gluten based diet can be extreme in ways that we don’t even realize. In my case it was a switch to a gluten-free diet that’s excessively high in nickel. And I’m apparently allergic to Ni. Who even knew nickel was in food!? It’s probably best to get some professional help figuring out what you’re reacting to. I won’t lie, this has been beyond frustrating. But - as i tell myself - hang in there and just trudge your way thru it. And be glad for groups like this one! 

[trents]

2 minutes ago, Eloise2022 said:

Hi Celiac1337 - no need to read my stupid long post! The bottom line is that the switch from a gluten based diet can be extreme in ways that we don’t even realize. In my case it was a switch to a gluten-free diet that’s excessively high in nickel. And I’m apparently allergic to Ni. Who even knew nickel was in food!? It’s probably best to get some professional help figuring out what you’re reacting to. I won’t lie, this has been beyond frustrating. But - as i tell myself - hang in there and just trudge your way thru it. And be glad for groups like this one! 

If I may summarize what you seem to be trying to say, it is that switching to a gluten-free diet can cause other unexpected problems such as nutrient deficiencies or heavy metal toxicities. I have not heard before of issues with nickel but there have always been concerns about arsenic toxicity when switching to gluten-free eating because of all the rice-based gluten-free products out there. Rice naturally uptakes higher amounts of arsenic than most plants and when grown in areas where there is a high concentration of arsenic in the soil it can be a danger.

[yuluyouyue]

1 hour ago, trents said:

If I may summarize what you seem to be trying to say, it is that switching to a gluten-free diet can cause other unexpected problems such as nutrient deficiencies or heavy metal toxicities. I have not heard before of issues with nickel but there have always been concerns about arsenic toxicity when switching to gluten-free eating because of all the rice-based gluten-free products out there. Rice naturally uptakes higher amounts of arsenic than most plants and when grown in areas where there is a high concentration of arsenic in the soil it can be a danger.

I just wonder, if rice is such danger, how does half of Asia eat it as much as 3 times a day, every day? 

[trents]

3 minutes ago, yuluyouyue said:

I just wonder, if rice is such danger, how does half of Asia eat it as much as 3 times a day, every day? 

For the most part, the concerns about arsenic toxicity have proven to be exaggerated. There are exceptions in some localities where the soil is high in arsenic content.

[knitty kitty]

@Eloise2022,

Welcome to the forum!

I've read that Vitamin C will binds with nickel and keep nickel from being absorbed in the digestive tract.  Iron competes with nickel for absorption in the digestive tract.  Has your ferretin level been checked?

The AutoImmune Protocol Diet is a Paleo Diet that eliminates processed gluten free facsimile foods, legumes and grains.  As these are sources of nickel, perhaps the AIP diet for several weeks would reduce your nickel load.  After a few weeks on the AIP diet, other foods are reintroduced. 

Eliminating high nickel content foods and reintroducing them slowly allows the body to tolerate nickel foods better.  Increasing Vitamin C and iron to the diet helps the body tolerate nickel better.  Here's a scientific study showing this works.

"Low Nickel Diet in Dermatology"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3667300/

And another for good measure...

"Dietary Nickel as a Cause of Systemic Contact Dermatitis"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2923958/

I have a nickel allergy, too.  I stick close to the AIP diet and don't have problems with nickel anymore.  Hope this helps!  

P.S.  Thiamine (Vitamin B1) will chelate arsenic.

Edited February 13, 2022 by knitty kitty
Added post script

[yuluyouyue]

19 minutes ago, trents said:

For the most part, the concerns about arsenic toxicity have proven to be exaggerated. There are exceptions in some localities where the soil is high in arsenic content.

It is a relief to hear that. I also eat quite a lot of it. It seems there is no winning with food nowadays, what with pollution and allergies. 

[Eloise2022]

56 minutes ago, trents said:

If I may summarize what you seem to be trying to say, it is that switching to a gluten-free diet can cause other unexpected problems such as nutrient deficiencies or heavy metal toxicities. I have not heard before of issues with nickel but there have always been concerns about arsenic toxicity when switching to gluten-free eating because of all the rice-based gluten-free products out there. Rice naturally uptakes higher amounts of arsenic than most plants and when grown in areas where there is a high concentration of arsenic in the soil it can be a danger.

Yes. Though they think, like gluten, there’s a genetic component to Ni allergy. My husband, eating the same diet, had no problems. But there’s also a sensitization process. In my case it was probably a switch to vintage silver plate flatware about ten years ago. I started having gum sensitivity about that time, but again, Alex had no problems. Now that I have a handy Ni app, I’m amazed at the amount in “heath foods”. In terms of gluten-free substitutes, one ounce of almonds can contain 24 micrograms of Ni. Almond flour contains 54mcg/oz (rice flour has 24) Vs white wheat flour at 1.5 mcg/oz. There’s about 150 mcg/day in the SAD Vs over 300 in a plant based / health food diet. It’s probably even more for a gluten free, dairy free diet (milk is almost Ni free). My goals are < 13mcg/meal and < 50mcg/day so my current diet is a long way from healthy. Fortunately I can tolerate some milk.

Here’s an informative site: https://rebelytics.ca/lownickeldiet.html

[Eloise2022]

26 minutes ago, knitty kitty said:

@Eloise2022,

Welcome to the forum!

I've read that Vitamin C will binds with nickel and keep nickel from being absorbed in the digestive tract.  Iron competes with nickel for absorption in the digestive tract.  Has your ferretin level been checked?

The AutoImmune Protocol Diet is a Paleo Diet that eliminates processed gluten free facsimile foods, legumes and grains.  As these are sources of nickel, perhaps the AIP diet for several weeks would reduce your nickel load.  After a few weeks on the AIP diet, other foods are reintroduced. 

Eliminating high nickel content foods and reintroducing them slowly allows the body to tolerate nickel foods better.  Increasing Vitamin C and iron to the diet helps the body tolerate nickel better.  Here's a scientific study showing this works.

"Low Nickel Diet in Dermatology"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3667300/

And another for good measure...

"Dietary Nickel as a Cause of Systemic Contact Dermatitis"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2923958/

I have a nickel allergy, too.  I stick close to the AIP diet and don't have problems with nickel anymore.  Hope this helps!  

P.S.  Thiamine (Vitamin B1) will chelate arsenic.

Thanks so much for this info. I worried that the AIP would be too restrictive - that I’d be calorie deficient if I gave up dairy. Has that been a problem? My iron level is good & I use iron cookware to be safe but I’ve been wanting to try using C.  The doctor that did the patch test advised me to eliminate supplements because of their potential Ni.  I’ve slowly added in the ones that were prescribed - D and Ca (tho I’m a little suspicious of the latter) and also a one strain probiotic (Culturelle). Have you found a brand of C (& other vitamins) you’re happy with? Thanks again! C
PS have you had trouble with chicken bone broth? It’s a problem for me & others. But we can’t figure out why! Any thoughts?

[Wheatwacked]

11 hours ago, Eloise2022 said:

Fortunately I can tolerate some milk.

I repopulated my gut lactobacillus by making my own dill pickles. Commercial ones are usually sterilized and most have vinegar, you get the pickle taste but not the nutrition because the bacteria are inhibited by vinegar.  Sterilized dead bacteria are not helpful to the gut biome in my opinion. https://www.makesauerkraut.com/fermented-pickles/

That fixed my recent lactose intolerance. I drink lots of coffee with whole milk. Started when I was 10 years old (pediatrician suggested it for ADD before Ritalin was around) but in the past few years, I noticed that by bedtime I was drinking it black to avoid upset stomach in my sleep. Switched to 100% Pasture fed. Problem gone. It tastes creamier, like the milk I grew up on. I depend on milk mostly as a quick source to reach RDA of calcium and potassium and iodine. The problem is the feed supplements used to increase milk fat and volume and pasture fed cows "consume more omega-3s and less omega-6s as a result of increased access to pasture" https://milkgenomics.org/article/getting-omega-3-fatty-acids-milk/

Here is an article for people with thyroid issues.   Could nickel be their common trigger for thyroid disease and celiac disease?

Quote

A 2014 paper suggested that a systemic nickel allergy is a risk factor for developing autoimmune thyroid disease.   https://www.verywellhealth.com/nickel-allergy-and-autoimmune-disease-5198646

 

[Eloise2022]

On 2/13/2022 at 11:59 PM, Wheatwacked said:

I repopulated my gut lactobacillus by making my own dill pickles. Commercial ones are usually sterilized and most have vinegar, you get the pickle taste but not the nutrition because the bacteria are inhibited by vinegar.  Sterilized dead bacteria are not helpful to the gut biome in my opinion. https://www.makesauerkraut.com/fermented-pickles/

That fixed my recent lactose intolerance. I drink lots of coffee with whole milk. Started when I was 10 years old (pediatrician suggested it for ADD before Ritalin was around) but in the past few years, I noticed that by bedtime I was drinking it black to avoid upset stomach in my sleep. Switched to 100% Pasture fed. Problem gone. It tastes creamier, like the milk I grew up on. I depend on milk mostly as a quick source to reach RDA of calcium and potassium and iodine. The problem is the feed supplements used to increase milk fat and volume and pasture fed cows "consume more omega-3s and less omega-6s as a result of increased access to pasture" https://milkgenomics.org/article/getting-omega-3-fatty-acids-milk/

Here is an article for people with thyroid issues.   Could nickel be their common trigger for thyroid disease and celiac disease?

 

Thanks so much for this. You put a smile on my face! Dairy supposedly helps with Ni but I’m not sure anyone knows why or if it’s even true. Milk does make me feel better and I only have problems when I go crazy with it - drink over 8 ounces/day.  Eating it in custard doesn’t seem to be a problem at all. I’ve been buying local unpasteurized - because it’s organic and in a bottle - and then pasteurize it (or make custard). Friends swear by it unpasteurized but I’m dealing with so many problems right now that I don’t want another one. It’s got the creaminess you’re talking about & I’m wondering to what % it’s pasture raised. I know they’re out most of the year but not sure what they’re fed in winter. [As far as glass bottles go, I’ve developed an allergy to Gallates and they’re used as a stabilizer for fats. They don’t have to be labeled and are even being added to packaging to increase shelf life. They’re not supposed to be added to organic foods but I feel safer with glass packaging.]