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Does ionized water work for NCGS treatment?


Murilo P

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Murilo P Apprentice

Has anyone tried to use these special water ionizer devices to treat non-celiac gluten sensitivity?

For many years I have been wishing to purchase one of those to use it as a medical device. But I'm still unsure because they are quite expensive due to the titanium plates needed to break the water molecules. So I'm hoping maybe someone has already tried it out?

More info:

The device works as a water splitter, breaking H2O molecules. It actually has two distinct water outputs. It produces acid water (H+ or H3O+) on one side and alkaline water (OH-) on the other side. This is not regular alkalized water because it has special properties, such as a negative ORP (oxidation reduction potential) and significant hydrogen levels (H2), at different levels depending on the device. This type of alkaline water is unique and can do incredible things like removing oil-based pesticides from fruits because it can emulsify oil. In my understanding, the special water works for us mostly by dissolving undesired matter that gets stuck in the lining of our colon. With that, it promotes a direct improvement of our health, which is further improved by following a healthier diet (to fill up the space with a healthier microbiome). The science goes much deeper and may involve pathogen-killing and free-radical neutralization effects.

The story begins more than 50 years ago with Dr. Hiromi Shinya, who "pioneered modern colonoscopic techniques, and invented the electrosurgical polypectomy snare now common on colonoscopes, allowing for removal of colon polyps without invasive surgery". There is a video with colonoscopy images where all of his patients take the "Kangen water". Just note the images are very unpleasant, so I strongly suggest only listening to the video while not looking at the images. Those patients were drinking many quarts (litters) of water with pH 8.5-9.5. Modern ionizer devices can produce water with a pH of up to 11.5, but this should not be consumed. This image shows the ranges: https://i.imgur.com/llO9e4c.png

The devices using "Kangen" name have been sold under the Enagic brand, but today there are other brands that have been measured to perform better, such as the AlkaViva brand. Many comparison videos can be seen on Cathleen's YouTube channel. She runs the alkalinewaterplus.com website. The videos show the ORP and H2 measurements.

By the way, there are simple water filters that can alkalize water and increase the pH to 8 by using special filtering devices that release ionized minerals (such as magnesium) into the water, but this is not the same process and does not produce the same results. I actually am drinking water with a better pH because I have a clay filter with a special filtering unit. It tastes better and has healthy bacteria in the water, but does no miracle.

 


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Scott Adams Grand Master

When considering treatments for non-celiac gluten sensitivity (NCGS), it’s important to focus on evidence-based approaches. There is currently no scientific evidence supporting the use of water ionizers to treat NCGS.

Water ionizers claim to alter the pH level of water, but NCGS involves the body's response to gluten, a protein found in wheat, barley, and rye. Managing NCGS typically involves a gluten-free diet, as gluten triggers symptoms in sensitive individuals.

Murilo P Apprentice

Yes, Scott, I posted it exactly because I don't have any evidence yet, and your warning is important so that people don't waste their time (and money) with unverified approaches.

However, as you showed me, the food sensitivity tests from Enterolabs are entirely based on stools, and this local article indicates there are connections between microbiome and celiac disease. I know our antibodies are not produced by our gut microbiome, but doesn't it make sense to think that our microbiome could play a role in causing NCGS at least?

If this is a plausible idea, then wouldn't it also be reasonable to expect that any effective gut health treatment (such as the one shown in the video, done with special water plus a special diet) to be helpful with gut-related food sensitivities, such as NCGS?

Anyway, I posted this thread with the hopes that one day someone in the forum may post their personal experience with those devices and tell whether they think it had any effect on their food sensitivities or NCGS, particularly when there is also poor nutrient absorption and nutrient deficiencies.

By the way, those devices are said to be used in hospitals in Japan. Again, it is important to clarify that this is not just about pH. If this was just about pH, all we would need to do is add 0.1g of baking soda (Sodium bicarbonate) per litter of water, which is a very tiny amount, but I don't think this would go well by the end of the day.

It seems like the effects of changes in the microbiome are a new science that is still poorly understood. For instance, this video about "The Anorexic Poo Project" states that some anorexic patients were cured by simply treating their microbiome (with diet and probiotics), without requiring any other parallel treatment. Also, this local article from 2017 indicates that microbiome science is promising - "In the very near future, your personal microbiome may be the key to creating a customized treatment for celiac disease."

Indeed, I don't see those water ionizer brands advocating that their devices promote any microbiome treatment, but this is the implicit idea we see in Dr. Hiromi Shinya's videos and explicitly said in his books, such as "The Microbe Factor".

Scott Adams Grand Master

Some doctors, for example Dr. Rodney Ford and Kenneth Fine, MD, believe that gluten sensitivity is a spectrum, and most people with celiac disease start out with just NCGS, but due to a viral, antibiotic overuse, or other environmental trigger--end up with full blown celiac disease, at least for those with the specific genes for it. Certainly those with NCGS can also have gut microbiome issues, and an imbalance in bad vs. good gut flora, which can improve on a gluten-free diet, but much more research needs to be done on NCGS.

 

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    • Scott Adams
      The first set of results show two positive results for celiac disease, so at the very least it looks like you could have it, or at the least NCGS.   Approximately 10x more people have non-celiac gluten sensitivity than have celiac disease, but there isn’t yet a test for NCGS. If your symptoms go away on a gluten-free diet it would likely signal NCGS.      
    • Scott Adams
      Elevated tissue transglutaminase IgA (tTG-IgA) levels are highly specific for celiac disease, and they are a key biomarker used in its diagnosis. However, there are some rare instances where elevated tTG-IgA levels have been reported in conditions other than celiac disease. While these cases are not common, they have been documented in the literature. Below are some examples and references to studies or reviews that discuss these scenarios:  1. Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity (NCGS)    - NCGS typically does not cause elevated tTG-IgA levels, as it is not an autoimmune condition. However, some individuals with NCGS may have mild elevations in tTG-IgA due to intestinal inflammation or other factors, though this is not well-documented in large studies.    - Reference: Catassi, C., et al. (2013). *Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity: The New Frontier of Gluten-Related Disorders*. Nutrients, 5(10), 3839–3853. [DOI:10.3390/nu5103839](https://doi.org/10.3390/nu5103839)  2. Autoimmune Diseases    - Elevated tTG-IgA levels have been reported in other autoimmune conditions, such as type 1 diabetes, autoimmune hepatitis, and systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE). This is thought to be due to cross-reactivity or polyautoimmunity.    - Reference: Sblattero, D., et al. (2000). *The Role of Anti-Tissue Transglutaminase in the Diagnosis and Management of Celiac Disease*. Autoimmunity Reviews, 1(3), 129–135. [DOI:10.1016/S1568-9972(01)00022-3](https://doi.org/10.1016/S1568-9972(01)00022-3)  3. Chronic Liver Disease    - Conditions like chronic hepatitis or cirrhosis can sometimes lead to elevated tTG-IgA levels, possibly due to increased intestinal permeability or immune dysregulation.    - Reference: Vecchi, M., et al. (2003). *High Prevalence of Celiac Disease in Patients with Chronic Liver Disease: A Role for Gluten-Free Diet?* Gastroenterology, 125(5), 1522–1523. [DOI:10.1016/j.gastro.2003.08.031](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.gastro.2003.08.031)  4. Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD)    - Some patients with Crohn’s disease or ulcerative colitis may have elevated tTG-IgA levels due to intestinal inflammation and damage, though this is not common.    - Reference: Walker-Smith, J. A., et al. (1990). *Celiac Disease and Inflammatory Bowel Disease*. Journal of Pediatric Gastroenterology and Nutrition, 10(3), 389–391. [DOI:10.1097/00005176-199004000-00020](https://doi.org/10.1097/00005176-199004000-00020)  5. Infections and Parasites    - While infections (e.g., giardiasis) are more commonly associated with false-positive tTG-IgA results, chronic infections or parasitic infestations can sometimes lead to elevated levels due to mucosal damage.    - Reference: Rostami, K., et al. (1999). *The Role of Infections in Celiac Disease*. European Journal of Gastroenterology & Hepatology, 11(11), 1255–1258. [DOI:10.1097/00042737-199911000-00010](https://doi.org/10.1097/00042737-199911000-00010)  6. Cardiac Conditions    - Rarely, heart failure or severe cardiovascular disease has been associated with elevated tTG-IgA levels, possibly due to gut ischemia and increased intestinal permeability.    - Reference: Ludvigsson, J. F., et al. (2007). *Celiac Disease and Risk of Cardiovascular Disease: A Population-Based Cohort Study*. American Heart Journal, 153(6), 972–976. [DOI:10.1016/j.ahj.2007.03.019](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ahj.2007.03.019)  Key Points: - Elevated tTG-IgA levels are highly specific for celiac disease, and in most cases, a positive result strongly suggests celiac disease. - Other conditions causing elevated tTG-IgA are rare and often accompanied by additional clinical findings. - If celiac disease is suspected, further testing (e.g., endoscopy with biopsy) is typically required for confirmation. If you’re looking for more specific studies, I recommend searching PubMed or other medical databases using terms like "elevated tTG-IgA non-celiac" or "tTG-IgA in non-celiac conditions." Let me know if you’d like help with that!
    • MaryMJ
      I called zero water and they state their filters do not contain gluten or gluten containing ingredients. 
    • trents
      I agree. Doesn't look like you have celiac disease. Your elevated DGP-IGG must be due to something else. And it was within normal at that after your gluten challenge so it is erratic and doesn't seem to be tied to gluten consumption.
    • Jack Common
      Hello! I want to share my situation. I had symptoms like some food intolerance, diarrhea, bloating, belching one year ago. I thought I could have celiac disease so I did the blood tests. The results were ambiguous for me so I saw the doctor and he said I needed to do tests to check whether I had any parasites as well. It turned out I had giardiasis. After treating it my symptoms didn't disappear immediately. And I decided to start a gluten free diet despite my doctor said I didn't have it. After some time symptoms disappeared but that time it wasn't unclear whether I'd had them because of eliminating gluten or that parasite. The symptoms for both are very similar. Giardiasis also damages the small intestine. The only way to check this was to start eating bread again as I thought. Now about my results.   These are my first test results (almost a year ago) when I had symptoms: The Tissue Transglutaminase IgA antibody - 0.5 U/ml (for the lab I did the tests 0.0 - 3.0 is normal) The Tissue Transglutaminase IgG antibody - 6.6 U/ml (for the lab I did the tests 0.0 - 3.0 is normal) Immunoglobulin A - 1.91 g/l (for the lab I did the tests 0.7 to 4 g/l is normal) IgA Endomysial antibody (EMA) - < 1:10 titer (for the lab I did the tests < 1:10 titer is normal) IgG Endomysial antibody (EMA) - < 1:10 titer (for the lab I did the tests < 1:10 titer is normal) Deamidated gliadin peptide IgA - 0.3 U/ml (for the lab I did the tests 0.0 - 6.0 is normal) Deamidated gliadin peptide IgG - 46.1 U/ml (for the lab I did the tests 0.0 - 6.0 is normal)   Then I didn't eat gluten for six months. Symptoms disappeared. And I started a gluten challenge. Before the challenge I did some tests. My results: The Tissue Transglutaminase IgG antibody - 0.5 U/ml (for the lab I did the tests < 20 U/ml is normal)) Deamidated gliadin peptide IgG - 28 U/ml (for the lab I did the tests < 20 U/ml is normal)   During the challenge I ate 6 slices of wheat bread. After the challenge my results are: The Tissue Transglutaminase IgA antibody - 2.0 U/ml (for the lab I did the tests < 20 U/ml is normal) The Tissue Transglutaminase IgG antibody - 2.0 U/ml (for the lab I did the tests < 20 U/ml is normal) Immunoglobulin A - 1.31 g/l (for the lab I did the tests 0.7 to 4 g/l is normal) Deamidated gliadin peptide IgA - 2.0 U/ml (for the lab I did the tests < 20 U/ml is normal) Deamidated gliadin peptide IgG - 2.13 U/ml (for the lab I did the tests < 20 U/ml is normal)   To be sure I continued consuming gluten. I ate a lot each day. Two months after I did the tests again. My results I got today are: The Tissue Transglutaminase IgA antibody - 0.7 U/ml (for the lab I did the tests < 20 U/ml is normal) Immunoglobulin A - 1.62 g/l (for the lab I did the tests 0.7 to 4 g/l is normal) Deamidated gliadin peptide IgG - 25.6 U/ml (for the lab I did the tests < 20 U/ml is normal)   Nowadays I didn't have any symptoms except tiredness but I think it's just work. I think it was this parasite because two years ago, for example, and before I didn't have these symptoms and I always ate gluten food. But I'm still not sure especially because the Deamidated gliadin peptide IgG results are sometimes high. What do you think? @Scott Adams
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