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Rachel--24

Omg...i Might Be On To Something

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Must never leave :ph34r:

Actually- the talk I had with my friend was VERY interesting. She's an MD (dermatologist) and has many of the same symptoms I have. I told her the first person I thought of when I got diagnosed was her- they thought she had lupus and a whole host of other problems. Everything came back negative. She was pretty much disabled for 2 years and has just gone back to work part-time (2 kids too!).

Anyhoo- If the doctors in her office, because of the amount of families/patients with Lyme in the area, even SUSPECT lyme (especially neuro-Lyme) they order Igenix testing.

Uhmm...why won't she do it for herself- duh!!!!!!!!!!!

The other thing that she said, and my PCP said this as well, is that the TRUE Lyme controversy is not over treating undiagnosed Lyme with long-term antibiotics. It's over treating patients who are diagnosed right away, do a round of antibiotics and then continue to be symptomatic.

I didn't realize this. I thought long term antibiotics were controversial period. I guess if you're a long-term Lymie, then long-term treatment is not controversial. Interesting.

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Dear Murph,

It is not as easy as you think with the yeast. There are so many things that feed it. It is not just sugar and yeast! Alcohol, vinegar, moldy foods (dried fruits, mushrooms, cheeses, tomatoes, teas (except for green), and so many other things are a problem. You pretty much have to do the Atkins Diet to get rid of it. I have been having trouble going low-carb. It is difficult when your blood sugar gets low frequently.

I like words as well. I know exactly what you mean about hearing people say things in a way you are not used to. It can drive me crazy, too! Some people pronounce the h in herbs, and it is so odd that way! However, it is a correct pronunciation. When I was in 7th Grade, we had Etymology. I really enjoyed it.

Sincerely,

Jin

I can't help wondering if those that say the H in herb (Brits for sure & whoever else) also say it in heir.

Re: "It is not as easy as you think" - I hope I never implied it was easy to be on an all-out anti-candida diet. I did it for almost a yr & a

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I never made it to Starbucks--or the grocery store :(

I'm so sorry Patti. :(

Okay, so it's soft down filled chaises or sofas for Bev, Patti and I...and pink furry slippers for the rest. :P

I'll take both. :D

I think I've posted this before, but while we're on the subject of words, "pumpernickle" is a great one :lol:

....from What in the Word? by Charles Harrington Elster

:lol: :lol:

Laura,

Hi! Hope you're feeling ok today. :D

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RIGHT NOW I'M DEAD..LEGS AND FEET ARE KILLING ME.

GOING TO READ THE FORUM AND THEN TAKE A NAP.

HOPE ALL IS WELL WITH MY DEAR FRIENDS.

HAPPY SUNDAY..ALL

JUDY

Hope you can get some quality rest. Glad you stopped by to update us. :D

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Uhmm...why won't she do it for herself- duh!!!!!!!!!!!

Now that is one thing I don't understand. If people have the money for testing why don't they just get a whole bunch of testing done to rule things in or out?!

Money is scarce for us and going to make things more difficult but we'll still find a way to do some testing and treatment of whatever comes up......it may take quite awhile.

I already warned my hubby that I could get worse after my amalgams are out next year. Who knows how much the last round of crowns did to me, not to mention what damage it did to Seth.

I came back to these forums (was a regular a few yrs ago under some forgotten name) to try to find out what else might be wrong w/ me or what else I should try to do. I'm looking into Lyme, merc & any/everything else mentioned.

Also it is nice to see u all supporting each other so much. :)

I'm glad you are looking into other things and am hopeful (and positive) that that will yield some results for you.

I didn't realize you had so many sensitivities as well.

This thread is all about support. Most everyone is dealing with lyme, a lot with mercury and candida.

I'm glad I have a place here to call home. :D

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I have a question.....

Whey protein is used as part of the mercury removal support protocol....

What about the possible hidden msg in whey protein, whey protein concentrate and whey protein isolate?

I had also heard from Howard Lyman (the mad cowboy) that whey was a toxic substance that couldn't just be disposed of, so they put it in our food. Kinda like a lot of other things huh?

I know Mercola sells a whey protein that is from raw milk and not a by product of the cheese industry. I assume that that is the "toxic" whey?

I'm sincerely curious.

I've heard so many conflicting things about many different things with food etc. :(

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random drive-by:

I think I've posted this before, but while we're on the subject of words, "pumpernickle" is a great one

....from What in the Word? by Charles Harrington Elster

That is hilarious!! :lol:

JIM IS THE FEATURED ARTIST OF THE MONTH AT THE MEDIA LIBRARY FOR THE 2ND SATURDAY ART EVENT ON SAT NITE FROM 5-9...WE HAVE TO BE THERE

THEN SET UP AT 7:00 THE FOLLOWING AM...

RIGHT NOW I'M DEAD..LEGS AND FEET ARE KILLING ME.

GOING TO READ THE FORUM AND THEN TAKE A NAP.

HOPE ALL IS WELL WITH MY DEAR FRIENDS.

HAPPY SUNDAY..ALL

Judy, you did so well on the quoting thing!!! :P

Wow, congratulations to Jim on being the freatured artist...I did some oil painting, but never got very good...I should post one of my paintings for laughs. :P

Uhmm...why won't she do it for herself- duh!!!!!!!!!!!

The other thing that she said, and my PCP said this as well, is that the TRUE Lyme controversy is not over treating undiagnosed Lyme with long-term antibiotics. It's over treating patients who are diagnosed right away, do a round of antibiotics and then continue to be symptomatic.

I didn't realize this. I thought long term antibiotics were controversial period. I guess if you're a long-term Lymie, then long-term treatment is not controversial. Interesting.

Especially if the doctors are willing to test for it, and with Igenix no less!!! Wow. That is very interesting about the long term versus recent diagnosis thing.

Also it is nice to see u all supporting each other so much.

That's what we do best here! :P You've been sucked into the vortex as well though. :P

I have a question.....

Whey protein is used as part of the mercury removal support protocol....

What about the possible hidden msg in whey protein, whey protein concentrate and whey protein isolate?

I had also heard from Howard Lyman (the mad cowboy) that whey was a toxic substance that couldn't just be disposed of, so they put it in our food. Kinda like a lot of other things huh?

I know Mercola sells a whey protein that is from raw milk and not a by product of the cheese industry. I assume that that is the "toxic" whey?

I'm sincerely curious.

I've heard so many conflicting things about many different things with food etc.

I've not heard this...sheesh...my main concern with whey was the possibility of casein, but toxic substance?? Maybe it's toxic after the cheese industry gets done with it, but whey by itself wouldn't be would it? I mean whey is just another milk protein isn't it?

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OMG- I leave for a day and have to read 7 pages!!!!!!!!!!! Must never leave again :P

:ph34r: Um, that had a lot to do with Yours Truly, I was menstrual, and it was a full moon, and I was just a little spastic - - the only scientificness I contributed was a bit of etymology..... :huh:

random drive-by:

I think I've posted this before, but while we're on the subject of words, "pumpernickle" is a great one :lol:

....from What in the Word? by Charles Harrington Elster

:lol: EXCELLENT!

Hey Donna - - what is that cute birdie in your avatar? :)

and count me in for the fluffy slippers and down sofa sit-in!

well.......just did hours of planting and weeding - - - SO FREAKING hot - - - Rachel would have loved it - - me, not so much....... :angry: but the girls, they found a big fat frog, and unbeknownst to me, they were torturing it......knocking it about and putting it in their dingo mouths, and the frogs cause them to foam and froth......so I had to bash it with a shovel to kill it (the frog, not the dingo)......gruesome........ :o

Well, I have nothing to add, and don't want to hog up too much space with my nonsense! :ph34r:

Love and hello to all, those who are well, enjoy this day, and those who are not feelign so great.....rest and get better.

xoxo

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That is an Evening Grosbek...know nothing about them :lol: it was a photo the instructor picked out for me...the lilacs were a different photo and she wanted me to combine them. :P

I have one of Hawaii in my personal pic.

These are horrible photos cuz I'm way to lazy to try to set up the correct lighting and such...I just took the photos a minute ago and I'm already in lazy, relaxed mode for the day. :P

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I've not heard this...sheesh...my main concern with whey was the possibility of casein, but toxic substance?? Maybe it's toxic after the cheese industry gets done with it, but whey by itself wouldn't be would it? I mean whey is just another milk protein isn't it?

See, that is what I'm confused about.

That is an Evening Grosbek...know nothing about them :lol: it was a photo the instructor picked out for me...the lilacs were a different photo and she wanted me to combine them. :P

I have one of Hawaii in my personal pic.

These are horrible photos cuz I'm way to lazy to try to set up the correct lighting and such...I just took the photos a minute ago and I'm already in lazy, relaxed mode for the day. :P

Very nice! Off to look at the personal photo. :D

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Personal photo is very nice as well.

You're talking to someone who couldn't draw a thing if her life depended on it. :P

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Yes, you can never leave. You aren't allowed to have too much of a life if you want to keep up here. :P

...

:lol:

I never made it to Starbucks--or the grocery store :(

About 2 miles from the house, my stomach started cramping up and I felt nauseous. I always panic in those situations, so Mark turned the car around and brought me home.

I hate this--it's just what Miamia and I were talking about yesterday....

Gonna try to at least hit Acme for a few essentials in a little bit.

:(

I've been thinking about my health history and one thing that strikes me is that after my smallpox vaccination I developed some compulsive behavior things, like everything had to be in threes but it had to be even too :rolleyes: and none of it was too obtrusive and it eventually went away.

It makes me wonder if that vaccination wasn't just the first real assault on my health and that throughout my life I have become progressivlely more vulnerable as I have become more toxic. I can remember playing with mercury as a child too and it seems even the fumes are bad.

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Personal photo is very nice as well.

You're talking to someone who couldn't draw a thing if her life depended on it. :P

I used to draw all the time when I was very young...then took it up again as an adult. I do okay, but not great. Painting is easier for me, but I could never losen up the way I wanted to...it started to get stressful not being able to do what I wanted with it.

The one thing I LOVE to paint is skies...if I never painted anything else I would be happy. I love doing skies and clouds. In fact, I had a closet full of nothing but sky paintings. :P:ph34r: They relax me. Alas, the chemicals in the paints started to get to me. :(

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Maybe it's toxic after the cheese industry gets done with it, but whey by itself wouldn't be would it? I mean whey is just another milk protein isn't it?

I've always been confused about the whey thing too. I always thought it was just another protein until I heard it was actually a waste by-product. Who knows....

The US dairy industry produces 67 billion pounds of cheese whey annually. A waste by-product of cheese production, whey consists of water, milk sugar (lactose), casein (protein), and salts amounting to about 7% total solids. Ultrafiltration is used to concentrate cheese whey into a protein-rich foodstuff; however, it too produces a waste stream, known as ''whey permeate,'' (rejected water, lactose, and salts from the membrane). Whey permeate contains about 4.5% lactose and requires treatment to reduce the high BOD (biological oxygen demand) before disposal. Ab Initio, a small business with strong chemistry and dairy processing background, desired help in developing methods for bioconversion of whey permeate lactose into lactic acid. Lactic acid is an organic acid primarily used as an acidulant in the food industry. More recently it has been used to produce polylactic acid, a biodegradable polymer and as a new method to treat meat carcasses to combat E. coli bacteria. Conversion of whey permeate to lactic acid is environmentally sound because it produces a valued product from an otherwise waste stream. FM&T has expertise in bioconversion processes and analytical techniques necessary to characterize biomass functions. The necessary engineering and analytical services for pilot biomass monitoring, process development, and purification of crude lactic acid were available at this facility

http://www.osti.gov/bridge/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=16549

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I can remember playing with mercury as a child too and it seems even the fumes are bad.

You used to play with mercury!!!!! :o:ph34r::o:blink:

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We always have to reboot to get the other websites to work.

Your computer likes celiac.com! :P

Andrea...it is a bit on the conservative side cuz the Dr. actually stated 90% on the east coast and 40% here in Nor. Cal. I dont know if she was referring to the whole west coast with 40%...I just heard "here in our area they estimate that 40% have been exposed".

So, does this mean this many people have been exposed to Lyme, but a smaller % of people develop symptoms?

See, this is what I thought too, but I am really starting to believe that anyone with lyme has the tendency to have, or develop if they don't have already, candida problems.

I bought a candida book a couple months ago because I thought it would be a good idea to get on the diet again. Reading the book, I could see I really don't have candida symptoms. So, I don't think I have candida problems ... and thinking back, when I tried the diet back when I was seeing the wacky doctor, I didn't really feel any better .... maybe a little bit since I was eating better, but VERY little.

But I do think in general that candida and mercury go with Lyme. I don't seem to have those problems though. :blink:

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I've always been confused about the whey thing too. I always thought it was just another protein until I heard it was actually a waste by-product. Who knows....

http://www.osti.gov/bridge/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=16549

Interesting Mango.

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The other thing that she said, and my PCP said this as well, is that the TRUE Lyme controversy is not over treating undiagnosed Lyme with long-term antibiotics. It's over treating patients who are diagnosed right away, do a round of antibiotics and then continue to be symptomatic.

I didn't realize this. I thought long term antibiotics were controversial period. I guess if you're a long-term Lymie, then long-term treatment is not controversial. Interesting.

Bev, the controversery is over the existance of chronic lyme period. Mainstream does not acknowledge a disease that in many cases requires a clinical diagnosis (chronic lyme). They also dont acknowledge that the disease is not eradicated with 1 month or oral antibiotics. The insurance companies dont want to pay for long term antiobiotic treatment.

My LLMD said that if this disease were acknowledged and these chronically ill people diagnosed with fibro and everything else were treated for Lyme...the number of patients would be staggering...the cost of long-term antibiotic treatment would be tremendous. The insurance companies would not not be able to cope with the amount of $$ required to treat this disease. The number of people infected is too great.

The treatment too costly.

This is why they say that chronic lyme does not exist. Like my Dr. said...its much easier for them to bury their heads in the sand and to say that this disease is over diagnosed and over treated. This is why they started going after the Dr.'s who ARE treating patients with long-term antibiotics.

Heres a lengthy article explaining the controversy...written by Tincup on LymeNET.

People who are stricken with Lyme disease are not only faced with a serious infectious disease, they may easily become distressed over the political predicament they are facing when attempting to find treatment. Little did these people know that once they were bitten by a tiny infected tick, they would be bitten a second time by a group of practitioners who once swore an oath to, 'first, do no harm'.

Since day one, a controversy has been brewing in the world of Lyme, pitting doctors against doctors, labs against labs, and insurance companies against anyone they may have to reimburse. Lyme patients have literally been hung out to dry by this group of so-called professionals, without proper testing, a definitive diagnosis, or a proper treatment protocol. A patient who falls prey to a doctor on the wrong side of the Lyme fence eventually learns these so-called healers do not have the patients best interest at heart. Instead, some doctors are being lead around by the nose and are following whoever happens to be signing their paychecks at any given point in time.

A dwindling group of these callous medical professionals are causing growing numbers of patients to become chronically ill and disabled by ignoring obvious Lyme symptoms, disputing test results from experienced labs, and prescribing drugs to mask symptoms, as opposed to addressing Lyme as an active infectious disease. These doctors have been quick to talk the talk to any unsuspecting passer-by or colleague, but not walk the walk with their patients down the road to recovery. Concrete evidence continues to surface proving these dinosaurs' original theories obsolete, however, they stick by their guns in an attempt to save their declining reputations and almighty pocket books.

As the talkers (Camp A) cut corners and devise new schemes to prevent going down with the ship, the front-line physicians {Camp B} who are treating the devastated Lyme patients are saddled with increasing numbers of extremely ill people who shouldn't have ended up in that leaky boat. For the sake of the almighty dollar, the floundering medical misfits in Camp A have allowed the Lyme controversy to drag on for over 20 years. While patients in their hands needlessly suffer and go untreated, Camp A dismisses any research that contradicts their original asinine conclusions.

Camp A reports Lyme disease is, "over diagnosed and over treated". They have concluded that if someone is bitten by a deer tick they should "wait and see" if the organisms disseminate and cause symptoms before addressing the situation. They ignore research that has proven the Lyme spirochetes can travel to the spinal fluid within days and time is of the essence if treatment is to have a chance. Camp A requires Lyme patients to prove there was a deer tick bite in conjunction with a typical "bulls-eye rash", and be positive on two different blood tests. Research has shown that less than 50 percent of patients with Lyme recall a tick bite and less than 50 percent develop a rash. The standard lab tests used by Camp A miss as many as 80 percent of those who actually have Lyme and are notorious for inaccurate results.

Members of Camp A blatantly ignore the warnings by the CDC, FDA, International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society, Lyme Disease Association, and many other prominent organizations that agree a negative test should never be used to rule out Lyme. Camp A insists that Lyme disease, a systemic infection that can attack multiple organs or systems at random, fit in a nice neat box and conform to antiquated lab standards devised over a decade ago. Then, they claim, and only then, should Lyme disease be considered a possible cause for investigation.

Camp A believes that patients who remain ill or relapse after short term treatment must not have had Lyme disease originally and were misdiagnosed. These patients, many who not only have active or chronic Lyme but one or more active co-infections, are often told they are faking or malingering and are ordered to go back to their normal routines and/or get more exercise. Increasing numbers of these patients are prescribed psychiatric drugs and are told to accept the fact that nothing is physically wrong with them.

To compound the problems, Lyme patients often must endure a multitude of invasive tests which are intended to try and rule out an obvious case of Lyme (the "anything but Lyme syndrome"). As time progresses and the infections become worse, patients are often misdiagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome, ALS, MS, arthritis, depression, Fibromyalgia, lupus, or a combination of conditions instead of the true tick borne infections that remain active in their body.

Years ago, Camp A first speculated that antibiotics would not work on patients with Lyme disease, therefore, many patients were not treated. Concerned front line physicians discovered no research proving that assumption and discovered they could successfully treat the growing numbers of serious ill Lyme patients with antibiotics.

Camp A, walking about with egg on their face at that point, dilly-dallied about until they were eventually forced to jump on the band wagon and declare, yes, a short course of antibiotics would cure Lyme disease. As Lyme patients began returning to doctors waiting rooms when short courses of antibiotics failed, retreatment or longer courses of antibiotics were found to help these patients recover. After a good deal of foot dragging, Camp A eventually admitted they too were successful when extending treatment courses, and admitted that retreating patients who remained ill might, on a rare occasion, be necessary.

For a number of years, Camp A's wavering and ineffectual protocols adversely affected thousands of patients and their families. In turn, countless numbers of patients suffered from chronic Lyme infections, often resulting in permanent damage and/or death. In desperation, patients searched world wide for physicians who would help them properly address their ongoing infections and multiple symptoms. As the number of Lyme cases increased across the country and some patients were able to see positive results with proper treatment, Camp A came under fire from newly formed Lyme organizations and front line physicians who had documented proof that the infectious organisms often survive after short term treatment.

The mounting evidence gathered concluded that long term treatment resulted in more successful outcomes for many patients. They noted that it was not only necessary to treat the chronically ill, but it was the humane thing to do.

Camp A doctors dug in their heels when they discovered physicians in other areas had proven them wrong again. The good news that patients could improve with longer courses of treatment fell on deaf ears. It wasn't until Camp A discovered more money could be funneled their way by developing a vaccine to prevent Lyme that they actually changed their views and suddenly admitted Lyme was indeed a devastating and debilitating illness. Camp A suddenly flip flopped and abandoned their original claims of "no big deal" as they promoted their recently developed vaccine that would save the world from a horrible disease.

Television and newspaper advertisements began promoting Camp A's new vaccine and Lyme disease quickly became a household word. Some members in Camp A, no doubt with an eye on their precious bank accounts, also found time to promote their newly developed lab tests, claiming a quicker and more accurate result. As Camp A raced to file patents and collect on their inventions, they padded the medical journals with their detailed reports about the unremitting consequences and serious nature of Lyme disease.

Finally feeling they were back on top of the Lyme world, they convinced the CDC, major university hospitals, and unsuspecting physicians to promote their vaccine. Little did they realize, while in their haste to line their pockets, their apple cart was preparing to topple once again.

After reports of serious problems surfaced, the FDA issued warnings about certain Lyme disease tests and cautioned physicians and the public not to rely solely on these tests when diagnosing Lyme disease. To make matters worse, the new vaccine that was once thought to be Camp A's ticket to fame and fortune, quickly blew up in their faces after 1,000 plus adverse event reports (complaints) were filed with the FDA.

The lab tests and the vaccine, which many in Camp A considered to be their proverbial ship coming in, suddenly sank. Legal actions and multiple lawsuits threatened Camp A's reputation and livelihood. As panic set in and the sparks began to fly in Camp A, internal battles over money, positions, job benefits, and stocks ensued. As the fires raged, there was a serious parting of the ways between some of the members of Camp A's former good old boy network. One after another, Camp A associates put their tails between their legs and scattered near and far, while back in the kitchen the fires were burning out of control.

Lyme patients, realizing the atrocities they had been subjected to, were filing complaints and initiating legal actions against Camp A doctors and the brown-nosing insurance companies. Many patients had become permanently disabled or had lost family members as a result of Camp A's inattentive response to their illness and quest for the almighty dollar. The patients believed the very ones they had trusted and paid dearly to help them regain their health, had knowingly caused them irreversible harm.

Certain Camp A members were accused of failing to diagnose or properly treat serious infectious diseases and the courts agreed. Compensation in the millions of dollars were awarded to disabled victims as a result of legal actions. Attorneys, on behalf of patients who died or reported serious complications from the vaccine, also filed lawsuits against Camp A members.

Floating up the creek without a paddle, Camp A was forced, once again, to flip flop their position in an attempt to save their rear ends. They began the "cover your rump" campaign which consisted of shouting to anyone who would listen, true or not, that Lyme was, once again, over diagnosed and over treated.

Having backed themselves in a corner, Camp A tried to convince the public that patients suffered more from "Lyme anxiety" instead of a serious infectious disease that could disable or kill them.

Camp A tried to convince other physicians and patients that positive tests for Lyme were often false positives and labs that specialized in detecting tick borne diseases were faulty for one reason or another. They buddied up with insurance companies who were delighted to discuss any dollar saving tactics that were hidden up the sleeves of Camp A leaders.

Camp A doctors went so far as to claim that people with Lyme were not actively infected and often not physically ill but instead they suffered from a mental disorder called, "antibiotic seeking behavior". This bad publicity allowed insurance companies to sneak in and develop guidelines that would reduce the length of time (and money) needed to treat Lyme patients for active infections.

Camp A doctors with a dwindling patient load spent their spare time in court testifying against Lyme patients. Some, who obviously had high opinions of themselves and too much time on their hands, testified against front line physicians who had been successfully treating chronically ill Lyme patients in an attempt to discredit them in the public's eye.

In order to try and gain credibility, Camp A doctors also granted press interviews and sparked a miniature media frenzy around themselves. To insure their views concerning Lyme would be taken seriously, some Camp A doctors announced they actually needed body guards to protect them from Lyme patients who didn't really have Lyme, but some sort of mental illness instead. The literature coming from Camp A once again promoted the false assumption that the treatment time required to cure Lyme should be shortened dramatically and in turn, their new best friends, the insurance companies, placed them high on their pedestals.

In an attempt to boost their credibility, Camp A members continued to publish additional papers. Evidently, their attempts to mislead other physicians and the public failed miserably and they resorted to using themselves as their own references in reports. As the self-promotion of Camp A doctors became unbearable, hundreds of chronically sick and disabled patients from across the county gathered together and peacefully protested Camp A meetings. Adding insult to injury, some of the world's leading tick borne disease specialists walked out of a Camp A conference in NY City in protest, claiming the Camp A conference was spewing nothing more than hog wash.

Camp A deserves some credit for coming close to being successful in one arena. Flip flopping about over the years has allowed them to have nearly completed a full circle in their little world of Lyme disease. Some of their most recently published articles claims that only ONE dose of Doxycycline is needed to prevent Lyme disease, and oh what a magic pill it must be, indeed! Perhaps if Camp A continues on their stroll backwards through time, anyone with a tick bite may soon be able to simply click their heels together and wish away any serious infectious disease.

Considering the fact Lyme disease currently costs society over a billion dollars a year and can ultimately destroy the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, this should be considered a true miracle.

In the meantime...

Camp B, unfortunately growing larger by the day, disagrees wholeheartedly with Camp A on many points. Camp B knows through personal experience and scientific research that Lyme disease can be a complicated infectious disease that destroys lives and at the least requires prompt, intense, and aggressive treatment in order to have a better chance at a successful outcome.

With so many people originally following the misguided lead of Camp A doctors, Lyme disease web sites now are booming and receive approximately one half of a million hits a month from patients in need of assistance with tick borne diseases. Hundreds of new Lyme education and support groups have formed across the country and the leaders report being overwhelmed by the growing numbers of terribly ill patients they see who were booted out of Camp A offices while still actively infected with tick borne diseases. Telephone hot lines dedicated to providing information for people with Lyme disease respond to over 100,000 calls a year and membership in Lyme organizations has reached approximately 200,000.

As the public demands to know more, numerous articles and books are being published on how to deal with Lyme disease and co-infections. While Camp A sucks up available grant money to try and support their antiquated notions, private groups across the country are holding dinners, dances, walk-a-thon's and other fund raisers and are donating money for the serious help needed with Lyme disease research.

The Camp B physicians on the front lines are increasingly overwhelmed with the numbers of new cases of tick borne disease patients showing up in the United States. Many of their patients come to them already severely and chronically ill after following the outdated protocols and recommendations of Camp A. As the diseases within them take a stronger hold, patients are suffering and dying from a disease reported to be "easily cured and easily treated" by Camp A followers.

Unfortunately, most of us know people in Camp B who have suffered from tick borne illnesses. Documented research over the past twenty five years, along with biopsy and autopsy reports, countless medical documents, and bacteria cultured from patients tissues after treatment, has proven beyond a doubt that Lyme is a complex infection that can remain active and destructive after treatment.

In addition, Lyme may be complicated by other tick borne infections, yet Camp A followers continue to promote their flawed reasoning and protocols.

Members of Camp B have learned the hard way that Lyme is not, "over diagnosed, over treated, or easily cured". Many patients who were ill for many months or even years actually do improve once they have a proper diagnosis and proper treatment.

For their efforts and dedication to the patient's well being, Camp B front-line physicians are now under pressure and direct attack for treating patients with chronic Lyme disease. They are ridiculed by their peers, investigated by medical boards, and are threatened with loosing their licenses if they treat patients who have suffered at the hands of Camp A.

So why do Camp A doctors still refuse to diagnose or treat a serious debilitating infectious disease or check for and treat co-infections that may be complicating the picture?

The answer is simple, but shameful. One reason for this atrocity is that some of them haven't kept abreast of, or are ignoring years of medical research and documentation that proves them wrong. In addition, many in Camp A refuse to actually listen to their own patients and continually dismiss complaints and ongoing symptoms. The third reason is that Camp A doctors may be in fear of loosing their medical licenses and livelihoods if they don't stick to their guns and continue to support their original mistakes.

After all, some of the successful Lyme disease lawsuits against doctors were for not properly diagnosing and treating Lyme disease. Lastly, insurance companies are loosing money when treating chronic Lyme patients and we all know that hurts a good number of powerful pocket books and ultimately influences the course and cost of treatment.

Why should you be concerned about the situation? There are growing numbers of chronically ill and disabled children and adults still stumbling out of Camp A after they have been improperly tested or treated for tick borne illnesses. More people are loosing the battle with Lyme disease after years of pain and suffering. Physicians who are brave enough and concerned enough to care for these patients are being harassed, ridiculed, and shut down. The madness must stop.

Bottom line...

If Camp A were right, there wouldn't be a Camp B.

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Lastly, insurance companies are loosing money when treating chronic Lyme patients and we all know that hurts a good number of powerful pocket books and ultimately influences the course and cost of treatment.

I just skimmed ... I got a letter from my insurance company this week asking if I had other insurance that is also covering my treatment (we don't).

I haven't turned in any LLMD bills because I don't want them to know I have a Lyme diagnosis. I didn't turn in my IGeneX test either. So far, they've been covering the meds ... but I don't think they actually know what I have.

They also cover my monthly blood work.

I found the letter curious.

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You used to play with mercury!!!!! :o:ph34r::o:blink:

Yup, we did too. broke the thermometers to have it come out....fascinating stuff.....we touched it too, of course, and I would not be surprised if yours truly actually put it in her mouth as a child.....always way too curious.

Rachel - - the Lyme stuff - - - simply astonishing. I have several people who should read exactly what you posted, and I just know they won't, I would be lucky to get them to watch the film trailor. They have listened to their doctors for so many years......and have accepted their fates. (some of these people are no longer friends of mine, I could not stand this sense of small-mindedness and denial that permeated into so many other unhealthy other areas of their lives.....their emotional and of course physical health and growth was really actually stunted....)

Donna - - very cute painting!

I am going to post my very crazy five-minute fauve tree.......be afraid.......you can see I like color. :lol:

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So, does this mean this many people have been exposed to Lyme, but a smaller % of people develop symptoms?

Yes....its a smaller percentage who develop symptoms. The larger percentage of people exposed to Lyme are not symptomatic....but as we know....things can change in an instant.

I think the percentage who are symptomatic is rapidly growing as the world becomes more toxic. We are now exposed to more pollution, EMF's from cellphones (and other wireless technology), countless chemicals in processed foods, thimersol in vaccines, pesticides, toxic water supply, mercury and other heavy metals, chemicals in household products, radiation...etc..etc...

Lyme and co-infections THRIVE in a toxic environment. The daily assaults from all other toxic sources become too much to bear.... the toxins begin to accumulate... the detox organs become overwhelmed... the immune system is constantly dragged down...and then...we get sick.

Autism is still on the rise...environmental triggers are the suspected cause...lyme is proving itself to be a piece of the puzzle.

I dont think Lyme is suddenly becoming a more serious infection. I think our bodies are becoming less able to cope with it. I think it becomes serious due to all the toxins our bodies are exposed to. Things like amalgams...a constant flow of mercury vapor into our bodies....injecting healthy human beings with mercury in vaccinations...these types of assaults cause immune dysfunction.

Its an invitation for the opportunistic lyme to gain ALOT of ground.

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random drive-by:

I think I've posted this before, but while we're on the subject of words, "pumpernickle" is a great one :lol:

:lol::lol: pumpernickle :lol::lol:

Must never leave :ph34r:

Actually- the talk I had with my friend was VERY interesting. She's an MD (dermatologist) and has many of the same symptoms I have. I told her the first person I thought of when I got diagnosed was her- they thought she had lupus and a whole host of other problems. Everything came back negative. She was pretty much disabled for 2 years and has just gone back to work part-time (2 kids too!).

Anyhoo- If the doctors in her office, because of the amount of families/patients with Lyme in the area, even SUSPECT lyme (especially neuro-Lyme) they order Igenix testing.

Uhmm...why won't she do it for herself- duh!!!!!!!!!!!

The other thing that she said, and my PCP said this as well, is that the TRUE Lyme controversy is not over treating undiagnosed Lyme with long-term antibiotics. It's over treating patients who are diagnosed right away, do a round of antibiotics and then continue to be symptomatic.

I didn't realize this. I thought long term antibiotics were controversial period. I guess if you're a long-term Lymie, then long-term treatment is not controversial. Interesting.

That is quite cutious about your friend. If I were in her position, I'd have gotten tested long ago.

I also had the same inpression as you did about Lyme. I didn't realize this..Thanks for clarifying it for me :)

I came back to these forums (was a regular a few yrs ago under some forgotten name) to try to find out what else might be wrong w/ me or what else I should try to do. I'm looking into Lyme, merc & any/everything else mentioned.

Also it is nice to see u all supporting each other so much. :)

Would we know you by your former name? Only kidding :P Yes, this is a wonderfully supportive place--a very special group of people. :wub:

I have a question.....

That is a good question--I'll be interested to see what everyone says.

That is an Evening Grosbek...

Very pretty! I'm off to look at you personal pic as soon as I post this :D

It makes me wonder if that vaccination wasn't just the first real assault on my health and that throughout my life I have become progressivlely more vulnerable as I have become more toxic.

I wouldn't be at all surprised. A Kinesiologist who muscle tested me said that a good percentage of my issues were from prior vaccinations. <_<

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... practitioners who once swore an oath to, 'first, do no harm'.

The Hippocratic Oath doesn't actually say this, tho I know we've all seen and heard it quoted as such.

One thing it *does* say is "I will not use the knife", which sounds awfully irrelevant in modern medicine.

(Uh oh am I being too picky again?)

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well.......just did hours of planting and weeding - - - SO FREAKING hot - - - Rachel would have loved it - - me, not so much....... :angry: but the girls, they found a big fat frog, and unbeknownst to me, they were torturing it......knocking it about and putting it in their dingo mouths, and the frogs cause them to foam and froth......so I had to bash it with a shovel to kill it (the frog, not the dingo)......gruesome........ :o

xoxo

I have no idea why but THAT CRACKED ME UP!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: Yuck though.

Rachel- Wow! That's a great article. Well-it looks like my friend is in Camp B (I NEVER thought she'd be...was afariad to even tell her). I'm pretty sure my new PCP is too. But not entirely. I'm not sure she knows how unreliable the testing is. My friend definitely does.

Although I *think* that due to more exposure (yucky word) camp a is getting whacked in New England.

Speaking of words- I love OVOVIVIPAROUS. producing eggs that are hatched within the body, so that the young are born alive but without placental attachment, as certain reptiles or fishes. Learned it in high school biology and never forgot it.

There's oviparous- lays eggs (BAWK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) :P

viviparous- gives birth to live young.

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Yup, we did too. broke the thermometers to have it come out....fascinating stuff.....we touched it too, of course, and I would not be surprised if yours truly actually put it in her mouth as a child.....always way too curious.

:ph34r::blink::o:o:blink::ph34r:

I'm in shock!...........I think you ought to be tested for mercury/metals toxicity.

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