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Guest Kris Fisher

Msg?

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It's a flavor enhancer. A quick search on the Internet will give you more than you could ever read about it.

richard

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It is monosodium glutamate....it is so bad for you.

http://nomsg.com/harmful.html

MSG intolerance is not an allergic reaction, but a powerful drug reaction. It is neither a necessary additive, nor a harmless flavor enhancer like common table salt. MSG actually tricks your brain into thinking the food you are eating tastes good.

That paragraph I got from that site.

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What the FDA has had to say about msg

Keep in mind that glutamates occur naturally in foods, and naturally occurring glutamates are chemically indistinguishable from those that are added as msg.

Natural glutamate content of common foods

A more recent study showed that only a small percentage of people who thought they were extremely sensitive to msg had reactions when given large doses in an experiment.

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The following is a list that was in Dr. Russell Blaylock's book Excitotoxins. He has written extensively on the dangers of excitotoxins and the link between them and neurodegenerative diseases. One of many links it seems. He is a now retired neurosurgeon.

Hidden Sources of MSG

As discussed previously, the glutamate manufacturers and the processed food industries are always on a quest to disguise MGS added to food. Below is a partial list of the most common names for disguised MSG. Remember also that the powerful excitotoxins aspartate and L-Cysteine are frequently added to foods according to FDA rules require no labeling at all.

Additives that always contain MSG:

Monosodium Glutamate

Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein

Hydrolyzed Protein

Hydrolyzed Plant Protein

Plant Protein Extract

Sodium Caseinate

Calcium Caseinate

Yeast Extract

Textured Protein

Autolyzed Yeast

Hydrolyzed Oat Flour

Additives that frequently contain MSG:

Malt Extract

Malt Flavoring

Bouillon

Broth

Stock

Flavorings

Natural Flavorings

Natural Beef or Chicken Flavoring

Seasonings

Spices

Additives that may contain MSG:

Carrageenan

Enzymes

Soy Protein Concentrate

Soy Protein Isolate

Whey Protein Concentrate

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What the FDA has had to say about msg

Keep in mind that glutamates occur naturally in foods, and naturally occurring glutamates are chemically indistinguishable from those that are added as msg.

Natural glutamate content of common foods

A more recent study showed that only a small percentage of people who thought they were extremely sensitive to msg had reactions when given large doses in an experiment.

This of course is the same FDA who approved Vioxx and many other meds that have killed thousands of people. A lot of people in the FDA should be fired for conflict of interest, because they profit directly from the sales of a lot of those harmful foods/meds. Why trust them?

And glutamate naturally occurring in certain foods, and adding it to foods that don't normally contain it, is a totally different thing. For all we know, the foods naturally containing it, have another ingredient that renders it harmless to humans.

Its like that with fructose. It is fine when you ingest it in the fruit you eat. It causes problems when extracted from that fruit and added as a sweetener to other things.

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This of course is the same FDA who approved Vioxx and many other meds that have killed thousands of people. A lot of people in the FDA should be fired for conflict of interest, because they profit directly from the sales of a lot of those harmful foods/meds. Why trust them?

And glutamate naturally occurring in certain foods, and adding it to foods that don't normally contain it, is a totally different thing. For all we know, the foods naturally containing it, have another ingredient that renders it harmless to humans.

Its like that with fructose. It is fine when you ingest it in the fruit you eat. It causes problems when extracted from that fruit and added as a sweetener to other things.

True that the FDA is pretty ineffectual right now, but it's better than no regulatory agency. There is science behind these reports, I have read some of them. The people with these websites are making money too, why should we trust them?

We in fact do know what is in food. There are no hidden ingredients in natural glutamate-containing foods that act to neutralize harmful effects of only those but not the additive msg.

The problem with sugars is that when we refine them, we eat them virtually pure and undiluted, as in candy. MSG and naturally occurring glutamates always are found in very small quantities and are never eaten straight.

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True that the FDA is pretty ineffectual right now, but it's better than no regulatory agency. There is science behind these reports, I have read some of them. The people with these websites are making money too, why should we trust them?

We in fact do know what is in food. There are no hidden ingredients in natural glutamate-containing foods that act to neutralize harmful effects of only those but not the additive msg.

The problem with sugars is that when we refine them, we eat them virtually pure and undiluted, as in candy. MSG and naturally occurring glutamates always are found in very small quantities and are never eaten straight.

From what I've read they've done some shady things in their "testing". For example it was discovered that the placebos used actually had aspartame in them which coincidently causes the same negative effects as MSG. So when people were reacting to the placebos they were saying there is no basis and the reactions people get had nothing to do with msg. Alos....remember who was paying for these tests to begin with.

So far it has not been proven that MSG is safe and the evidence is very much against it.

Also, natural glutamates and MSG are 2 entirely different things. Natural glutamates such as what is found in a tomato is nothing like the neurotoxin it becomes once its processed into MSG. I said this in another thread and I read this analogy somewhere but the coca leaves from which coacaine are made are perfectly safe and you can drink coca tea all day with no ill effects. Once those coca leaves are processed into the drug known as cocaine its an entirely different story. Its no longer "natural"...its a drug....and theres nothing natural or safe about it. Its the same with MSG....they've taken it from something natural and call it safe....when it clearly isnt.

They've done over 400 tests using MSG on animals and the results arent pretty and they say it is even more harmful to humans than it is to rats.

MSG isnt safe for *anyone*. EVERYONE will react to it but at different dosages. Some can tolerate higher doses than others but everyone reacts at some dose. This has been proven. In one study when given MSG (I think it was 3 grams) on an empty stomach 90% of the people reacted to it. Taken with food it was something like 30%.

The same people who claim MSG is "safe" also recommend a large meal of carbohydrates with the MSG to avoid reactions.

In my opinion there is *nothing* safe about it.

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3 grams of msg is a HUGE dose. 3 grams of salt on an empty stomach will probably make as many people sick. But only 30% reacted with a meal?

Glutamate is glutamate, just as chloride is chloride. We don't eat it straight, just as we don't eat salt from a spoon, and we shouldn't eat sugar from a spoon. We dilute it back down when using it. Some people are sensitive, but it is just not killing us. If it was that toxic, people should clearly be in the ER and dying from it. Japanese people eat it all the time, lots of it, and they're healthier than we are in many ways.

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We in fact do know what is in food. There are no hidden ingredients in natural glutamate-containing foods that act to neutralize harmful effects of only those but not the additive msg.

Do we really? Do you seriously believe that scientists have by now figured out what exactly every single part of a plant contains, and what it does? Personally, I don't believe we'll ever really know. The reason why certain vitamins and supplements don't work as they should, or are harmful, because parts of a plant will be used (or copied chemically), thinking that it's possible to achieve the same results a whole plant will give, without any thought to the fact that one ingredient without the others may not work. There is a balance in nature that isn't easily copied or understood. Anybody who thinks otherwise thinks he/she knows more than God.

But only 30% reacted with a meal?

ONLY 30%? That's 30% too many, in my opinion. And actually, 30% of people reacting to it is a LOT!

but it is just not killing us
Right, not immediately, but ONLY over years. And actually, it IS killing some people, there are people who have anaphylactic reactions to msg.

Glutamate is glutamate, just as chloride is chloride.
You couldn't be more wrong on that one. In fact, it appears that you don't know what you're talking about.

And Japanese people aren't healthier than us. They're just dying of different types of cancers from the American people, and their rate of celiac disease isn't as high, because their diet isn't based on wheat.

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My degree in chemistry tells me that an ion is an ion, and nature does not undetectably balance out naturally-occurring components in foods in order to be convenient for us.

The idea that msg is essentially different from naturally occurring glutamates in some way is not scientific. The lists I have seen of symptoms that are (not could be, but ARE) due to msg poisoning in virtually undetectable amounts cover every symptom imaginable. The long lists of food components or additives that "are" msg or are "deliberately hiding" msg actually are materials that contain naturally occurring glutamates.

This is not a conspiracy.

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This is not a conspiracy.

If there's nothing harmful or insideous about MSG why do they feel the need to process it into other ingredients in order to avoid the labeling....innocent sounding ingerdients such as "natural flavors"?? Why not label it as msg so we *know* what we're eating. They call it "clean" labeling. I call it *dirty*.

As long as msg is processed *into* another ingredient it does not have to be identified and because of that the amounts of msg we consume in a normal diet drastically exceeds what is considered to be "safe".

The U.S. uses more MSG in in its highly processed and toxin form than any other country....including Japan. Its a neurotoxin...why should putting a neurotoxin into the vast majority of our food be considered safe?

It appears as Ursula stated that you havent done alot of research on the subject of MSG.

I agree with Ursula. 30% of people reacting to a standard meal containing msg is ALOT of people reacting. Rememeber, everyone reacts at different dosages. Some people may react severely enough to be hospitilized on a dose as small as less than .5 gr. Another persons tolerance may exceed 5 gr. If you happen to be someone who doesnt react to small amounts then great....it doesnt render msg as "safe" though. I would have been on your side in this debate 3 years ago when I was perfectly healthy. Now I've read about msg....know a little bit about it and what it does...and I'm aware that a persons tolerance to it can change overnight. A person who was once healthy can find themselves in a downward spiral of health problems due to msg. I've read many stories about how this neurotoxin has affected the health of otherwise normal and healthy people...even kids. Children are suffering migraines and other symptoms due to the excess amounts of msg in our food. Do you really think this is OK?

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My degree in chemistry tells me that an ion is an ion, and nature does not undetectably balance out naturally-occurring components in foods in order to be convenient for us.

The idea that msg is essentially different from naturally occurring glutamates in some way is not scientific. The lists I have seen of symptoms that are (not could be, but ARE) due to msg poisoning in virtually undetectable amounts cover every symptom imaginable. The long lists of food components or additives that "are" msg or are "deliberately hiding" msg actually are materials that contain naturally occurring glutamates.

This is not a conspiracy.

You may have forgotten things you learned in analytical chemistry. Think about a simple subject as Na+ in NaCL and NaOh. So what Ursula says is very much scientific.

elisabet

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My mother used to be absolutely convinced she reacted to MSG in Chinese foods at restaurants. Then she discovered A) a couple of times she was sure she reacted she found out the restaurant did not use MSG in anything, and B) she was eating processed foods with MSG without knowing it and wasn't reacting at all. So much for her MSG reactions.

richard

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Some people are sensitive, but it is just not killing us. If it was that toxic, people should clearly be in the ER and dying from it.

Actually it is killing us, slowly killing us. If glutamate isn't harmful than why are the drug companies developing drugs for Alzheimer's and Parkinson's that are glutamate receptor blockers. They have made a direct link between glutamate neurotoxicity and these neurological diseases.

So my family and I would have to disagree with you since we've already had 5 deaths from Alzheimer's.

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My mother used to be absolutely convinced she reacted to MSG in Chinese foods at restaurants. Then she discovered A) a couple of times she was sure she reacted she found out the restaurant did not use MSG in anything,

As far as I know there is no such thing as a resteraunt that does not use MSG. True they might not *add* msg but it would be plentiful in the ingredients they use. Its unavoidable.

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