A Couple Questions

[Clark Bent as Stupor-Man]

I have been on a modified elimination diet since January and am now focusing more on the candida. I started taking SF722 yesterday (1 x 2 now until I build up to 3 x 3) and felt awful afterwards. I don’t feel anywhere near as bad today although I still feel somewhat off. I was informed I would probably feel bad the first 5 days or so, and I’m actually optimistic about feeling bad because it could mean these withdrawal/detox symptoms are related to the candida and could go away after I clear out my system. I have a couple questions about this process for those who have gone through it:

1.) Has anybody taken SF722 (a Thorne product), and if so, what were your experiences with it?

2.) How did you feel the first week taking an antifungal or whatever you took? How long was it until you started getting better, particularly a lot better?

3.) What foods should I absolutely avoid for now? I know to basically avoid sugars, yeast, alcohol, fermented items, moldy foods like cheese, etc.? I'm still staying gluten-free, df, sf, etc. for allergy reasons, but I'm not sure about some other foods. Is a bar that has cane juice and maple syrup okay to eat at times? Blueberries (or a pear/pineapple) every couple days? I’m avoiding corn aside from the candida currently, but if I want to try something with corn, there’s no reason not to in terms of the candida, correct?

[Guest katzmeow21]

I have been on a modified elimination diet since January and am now focusing more on the candida. I started taking SF722 yesterday (1 x 2 now until I build up to 3 x 3) and felt awful afterwards. I don’t feel anywhere near as bad today although I still feel somewhat off. I was informed I would probably feel bad the first 5 days or so, and I’m actually optimistic about feeling bad because it could mean these withdrawal/detox symptoms are related to the candida and could go away after I clear out my system. I have a couple questions about this process for those who have gone through it:

1.) Has anybody taken SF722 (a Thorne product), and if so, what were your experiences with it?

2.) How did you feel the first week taking an antifungal or whatever you took? How long was it until you started getting better, particularly a lot better?

3.) What foods should I absolutely avoid for now? I know to basically avoid sugars, yeast, alcohol, fermented items, moldy foods like cheese, etc.? I'm still staying gluten-free, df, sf, etc. for allergy reasons, but I'm not sure about some other foods. Is a bar that has cane juice and maple syrup okay to eat at times? Blueberries (or a pear/pineapple) every couple days? I’m avoiding corn aside from the candida currently, but if I want to try something with corn, there’s no reason not to in terms of the candida, correct?

My personal opinion. No sugars in any form period until you are done. Blueberries, apples are questionable since they contain very little sugar but pear/pineapple are very high in sugar. Corn also turns to starch/sugar. I guess my suggestion to you is call Thorne and ask them or call the doctor who put you on the product. You only want to go through it once if you can

[Guest cassidy]

I had an amoeba, a bad bacteria and candida overgrowth. My doctor sent me home with two antibiotics - for the amoeba and bad bacteria and I went on a total low carb diet. I felt horrible for about 10 days. I don't know if it was from the antibiotics or the diet or both. After those antibiotics I started nystatin, a rx antifungal. I've been on that for 1 1/2 months. It is helping - no more intestinal symptoms but my skin and my rapid heart beat wasn't improving.

Once my mom found heard about my candida problem, she realized she probably had it to. She started threelac and she never felt bad and her heart stopped pounding in a few weeks.

I have never heard of what you are taking. I just started the threelac along with the nystatin. The threelac says just to stay away from refined sugar and that is really all I'm doing at this point.

I tried the very strict diet and it was impossible to leave the house - there was nothing to eat that wasn't refrigerated. I travel a lot and eat lunch in the car everyday, so I just couldn't stick with it.

[CarlaB]

I would avoid the stuff with cane juice, maple syrup, honey, etc. it's still sugar. I think you can eat things with rice syrup, as long as it's gluten-free (don't know whether it's gluten-free or not) when you're really wanting something sweet because it's a more complex sugar. I didn't take anything for mine, mainly because I didn't think I'd find a doctor to believe me, so it was all diet, garlic supplements, and probiotics. The only carbs I ate for six months were veggies. I'd have a bowl of hot cereal once or twice per week. I actually gained 10 pounds on this anti-candida diet and thought it was peculiar at the time ... now I know it's because I was totally off gluten for the first time in my life!!

[Lister]

not sure how to answer your question because i dont know, but i do have a question for you. How did you get dianosed with candida, i really suspect that candida could be something wrong with me( i scored very high on online tests and my spit test was a instant octopuse and then cloud withen less then 20 seconds) but im not sure how to get a test for it. is it the same as a bactera/parasite stool culture? or is it something else?

sorry for not being able to answer your question

[Nantzie]

I'm a big fan of Threelac. That stuff works without any detox symptoms, as far as my experience, as well as that of my husband, and a couple of our friends. I don't restrict my diet when I'm on it at all, and it works great.

The first doctor who ever mentioned candida to me used Thorne supplements and I took SF722. He had me on so many other things at the same time, and it was such a long time ago, that I don't really recall anything other than taking it. I know that doctor used only two different brands of supplements, and that was one. I really respect him too, so I know it's good stuff. He's just an hour away, so I don't have a chance to go see him anymore.

I have heard that if you're prone to candida, you should take a good probiotic. Candida is a normal part of our digestive system, and basically just overgrows and overpowers the rest of the beneficial bacteria in our guts. When it's all in balance, everything works fine. It's just when candida overgrows that it's a problem.

When you treat candida overgrowth, it doesn't restore the balance of the microflora, it just destroys the candida. So you end up with a much better, but still unbalanced, system.

I'm not too sure what constitutes a good probiotic. Maybe someone has some suggestions?

Nancy

[Clark Bent as Stupor-Man]

I've been trying to eat carbs with every meal for a while now to have a more balanced protein to carb ratio (I hadn't been eating carbs with many meals for a while on this diet, just veggies and protein)... should I cut back on carbs again to help treat the candida? I'm eating mostly rice (or rice crackers), sweet potatoes, some beans and occassionally white potatoes, but no simple sugars and whatnot outside of maybe blueberries.. is this fine?

How did you get dianosed with candida, i really suspect that candida could be something wrong with me( i scored very high on online tests and my spit test was a instant octopuse and then cloud withen less then 20 seconds) but im not sure how to get a test for it. is it the same as a bactera/parasite stool culture? or is it something else?

I got diagnosed by 2 separate labs my nutritionist had me do tests for... it's a stool test... I would recommend seeing a nutritionist if you think this is an issue

[Guest cassidy]

not sure how to answer your question because i dont know, but i do have a question for you. How did you get dianosed with candida, i really suspect that candida could be something wrong with me( i scored very high on online tests and my spit test was a instant octopuse and then cloud withen less then 20 seconds) but im not sure how to get a test for it. is it the same as a bactera/parasite stool culture? or is it something else?

sorry for not being able to answer your question

my doctor had me do a three day stool test. It is from www.doctorsdata.com. It showed my amoeba, bad bacteria and candida over growth.

Nantzie - if you used Threelac, how long did you stay on it? Did it completely clear up your problem?

[Nantzie]

I do Threelac for 30 days. One box has 60 packets, so two packets a day. It totally clears it up for months for me. I usually am symptom-free by day 5. It does come back every once in a while for me. But we're talking once or twice a year. I'm pretty sure that's because I'm really lazy about taking probiotics like you're supposed to to encoourage the beneficial bacteria to grow. I also like it because you don't have to alter your diet at all.

Nancy

[Guest cassidy]

I do Threelac for 30 days. One box has 60 packets, so two packets a day. It totally clears it up for months for me. I usually am symptom-free by day 5. It does come back every once in a while for me. But we're talking once or twice a year. I'm pretty sure that's because I'm really lazy about taking probiotics like you're supposed to to encoourage the beneficial bacteria to grow. I also like it because you don't have to alter your diet at all.

Nancy

Thanks. I have 1 1/2 months left on the nystatin and I think I'm going to take the threelac that entire time. I want to get pregnant as soon as I'm better so I don't want it to come back at all, especially while I'm pregnant. I have been very diligent about taking probiotics and I was on a very strict diet for a while, so I'm hopefully that I won't have to deal with this again.

[Clark Bent as Stupor-Man]

is it normal (or at least not abnormal) to feel worse my second week on the antifungal than first week? I've felt much worse the past few days as I increased the dosage... I've only been on it two weeks to the day, and I was told to expect to feel bad the first 7-10 days or so.. I'm assuming that I'm feeling bad due to detoxing from symptoms tied to the candida, but is there any way to be sure this is working and that I'm not just negatively reacting to the antifungal without it fixing my system?

I've also been very strict in avoiding sugars since I started the SF722 two weeks ago... no fruit whatsoever nor sugars outside of gum... the only carbs I've pretty much been eating are rice-based carbs and sweet potatoes, one of which I generally have a little of with every meal..

also, how important is it to take a probiotic with the antifungal? I took one part of the first week but haven't taken it in a week and a half

[CarlaB]

I have never taken an anti-fungal, but I think that probiotics are essential to build the good bacteria to fight off the candida. You want to have the bacteria to prevent the candida from coming back.

It took me a very long time to get rid of the candida overgrowth -- I'm not surprised at all that you would feel bad if you increased your dosage -- but then again, I've never been on an anti-fungal.

[Lymetoo]

Since I have worked with a lot of Lyme patients who are on long term antibiotics, I have the following information at my fingertips. The plan outlined below will help you beat the yeast and keep it away. DIET is very important!!

I battle candida myself all the time even though I'm no longer on antibiotics.

As for the product you mentioned, I've never taken it. My favorite is Theralac ... www.theralac.com

Candida diet and elimination:

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

"Successful control and elminiation of a Candida Albicans overgrowth requires a multifaceted program as described below. Failure to follow ALL the steps simultaneously will result in slow progress and will lengthen healing time significantly. The program should be tailored to the individual and must balance the need to eliminate the Candida and deprive it of its food source while insuring proper nutrition for the individual."

Five Steps to Candida Elimination:

1. You must starve it into submission by eliminating its food source.

2. You must kill it with anti-fungal herbs and supplements. [e.g....garlic, onion, caprylic acid, Pau D'Arco capsules or tea, clove, grapefruit seed extract, olive leaf extract, oil of oregano, tea tree oil, Echinacea, Goldenseal, black walnut, MSM, barberry root, uva ursi, neem leaf, biotin]

3. You must reestablish the proper balance and quantity of probiotic bacteria in the digestive tract. [...multi-strain lactobacillus acidophilus and bifidus capsules with FOS should be taken between meals to maximize repopulation of the digestive tract by beneficial bacteria.]

4. You must reestablish proper levels of all B vitamins (yeast free) and utilize other immune enhancing supplements to boost immune system function. [e.g ... B complex vitamins (yeast free), biotin, beta 1-3 glucan, colostrum, maitake mushroom, vitamins A, C, E, zinc and selenium]

5. You must cleanse and heal the digestive tract to promote proper elimination of toxins and Candida and assimilation of nutrients. [e.g...chlorophyll, MSM, omega 3 fatty acids found in flax seed and salmon oils, GLA found in borage, evening primrose and black currant oils. Pantothenic acid, digestive enzymes between meals]

Hope this helps!!

2.) How did you feel the first week taking an antifungal or whatever you took? How long was it until you started getting better, particularly a lot better?

3.) What foods should I absolutely avoid for now? I know to basically avoid sugars, yeast, alcohol, fermented items, moldy foods like cheese, etc.? I'm still staying gluten-free, df, sf, etc. for allergy reasons, but I'm not sure about some other foods. Is a bar that has cane juice and maple syrup okay to eat at times? Blueberries (or a pear/pineapple) every couple days? I’m avoiding corn aside from the candida currently, but if I want to try something with corn, there’s no reason not to in terms of the candida, correct?

[CarlaB]

Since I have worked with a lot of Lyme patients who are on long term antibiotics, I have the following information at my fingertips. The plan outlined below will help you beat the yeast and keep it away. DIET is very important!!

I battle candida myself all the time even though I'm no longer on antibiotics.

As for the product you mentioned, I've never taken it. My favorite is Theralac ... www.theralac.com

Candida diet and elimination:

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

"Successful control and elminiation of a Candida Albicans overgrowth requires a multifaceted program as described below. Failure to follow ALL the steps simultaneously will result in slow progress and will lengthen healing time significantly. The program should be tailored to the individual and must balance the need to eliminate the Candida and deprive it of its food source while insuring proper nutrition for the individual."

Five Steps to Candida Elimination:

1. You must starve it into submission by eliminating its food source.

2. You must kill it with anti-fungal herbs and supplements. [e.g....garlic, onion, caprylic acid, Pau D'Arco capsules or tea, clove, grapefruit seed extract, olive leaf extract, oil of oregano, tea tree oil, Echinacea, Goldenseal, black walnut, MSM, barberry root, uva ursi, neem leaf, biotin]

3. You must reestablish the proper balance and quantity of probiotic bacteria in the digestive tract. [...multi-strain lactobacillus acidophilus and bifidus capsules with FOS should be taken between meals to maximize repopulation of the digestive tract by beneficial bacteria.]

4. You must reestablish proper levels of all B vitamins (yeast free) and utilize other immune enhancing supplements to boost immune system function. [e.g ... B complex vitamins (yeast free), biotin, beta 1-3 glucan, colostrum, maitake mushroom, vitamins A, C, E, zinc and selenium]

5. You must cleanse and heal the digestive tract to promote proper elimination of toxins and Candida and assimilation of nutrients. [e.g...chlorophyll, MSM, omega 3 fatty acids found in flax seed and salmon oils, GLA found in borage, evening primrose and black currant oils. Pantothenic acid, digestive enzymes between meals]

Hope this helps!!

2.) How did you feel the first week taking an antifungal or whatever you took? How long was it until you started getting better, particularly a lot better?

3.) What foods should I absolutely avoid for now? I know to basically avoid sugars, yeast, alcohol, fermented items, moldy foods like cheese, etc.? I'm still staying gluten-free, df, sf, etc. for allergy reasons, but I'm not sure about some other foods. Is a bar that has cane juice and maple syrup okay to eat at times? Blueberries (or a pear/pineapple) every couple days? I’m avoiding corn aside from the candida currently, but if I want to try something with corn, there’s no reason not to in terms of the candida, correct?

Takes at least a week or two before you'll begin feeling alot better....depends upon how bad you have the candida.

For the first several weeks....until the candida appears to be under control....I would NOT eat blueberries, pears, pineapples, at all. Corn is not good either as it is a starch. Cane juice and maple syrup is a NO. Sorry, I have to eat this way all the time.....I do know how tough it is!!!

After you feel you have the candida beaten down, you can let up a bit.

What are you taking for probiotics?? Actually, what I listed is a probiotic.....it does not kill candida. I take Diflucan to kill the candida.

YOU MUST take probiotics everyday!!!!! I would also not chew gum with sugar in it or eat rice or rice products for the next few weeks.

I did pretty much all of this and it took 6 months before I felt they were completely under control. I still use lots of coconut oil and take garlic and probiotic supplements. The hardest part is keeping to the diet that starves them out. If I remember correctly, I took caprylic acid.

[Lymetoo]

I've also been very strict in avoiding sugars since I started the SF722 two weeks ago... no fruit whatsoever nor sugars outside of gum... the only carbs I've pretty much been eating are rice-based carbs and sweet potatoes, one of which I generally have a little of with every meal..

also, how important is it to take a probiotic with the antifungal? I took one part of the first week but haven't taken it in a week and a half

Sorry, I'm having a rough time figuring out this board!!! Never can click on the right "reply" button!!

I would NOT chew gum containing sugar...at least not now. Rice-based carbs are not good either, look to see if sweet potatoes are OK in the link I provided. I generally avoid them.

YOU MUST take probiotics with the antifungals!!!! Absolutely essential!! The reason you HAVE a problem is because your body doesn't contain adequate probiotics in the gut.

[CarlaB]

No sweet potatoes! At least I avoided them. If you're eating rice and sweet potatoes, you are not starving the candida!

[Clark Bent as Stupor-Man]

I have no problem cutting out rice and sweet potatoes, but if I do that, I will basically be eating zero carbs... is this okay? I have blood sugar issues (reactive hypoglycemia) so I've been eating high protein for a long time but have tried to also eat carbs with every meal because I was worried I wasn't eating enough carbs after initially going gluten-free.. my diet currently consists of meats (chicken, lamb, pork) and veggies with rice/sw. potatoes... I eat some almond butter (which by itself has a balanced protein-carb ratio) and sometimes eat vegan burgers and Shelton's chicken chili (both of which are balanced protein-carb as well)... my main concern is if it is okay to basically completely cut out carbs for an extended period of time.. I also need to stay "full" enough and I'm not sure I can do so by entirely cutting out carbs but I'm willing to try if it will be beneficial for me to do so.. are there certain carbs which are okay or even good to eat while treating the candida?

as for the probiotic, I have one from my nutritionist: Ther-Biotic Detoxification support from Klaire Labs... it has Lactobacillus rhamnosus, Bifidobacterium bifidum, and Lactobacillus casei... the other ingredients are proprietary polysaccharide complex, cellulose, and L Leucine (derived from chicory root)... I take it on and off because I'm not positive I don't react negatively to it though it states it is free of the common allergens... it's probably fine though... I know acidophillus is the most common one but don't know if any are more beneficial than the other ones..

as for the gum... it's the only gum I know of that I can chew... all the sugar-free ones either have aspartame, splenda, soy, or corn.. I'm still learning about candida but I'd be surprised if a few pieces of gum (1g of sugar per piece) per day would really be that negative.. but I could be wrong..

I'll respond to a couple of the other points later... I appreciate the advice... this candida diet is starting to make me jealous of my initial gluten-free diet

[BRUMI1968]

I'm on day 4 of a candida-starvation diet, though one might call it a Sherri starvation diet.

I eat veggies and proteins from salmon, chicken, and some seeds/nuts (I went overboard on walnuts at first, and now they bug me), and almond butter. I don't eat any grains or beans, and I only use stevia to sweeten things.

I try to keep it at 80% veggies and 20% protein.

I also take Florastor, which is a yeast, which is supposed to heal the gut. I was taking a high potency probiotic as well, but it is powder and I was mixing it in with my other "gut healer" called Endefen which is plantain based...but then I realized the endefen had soy lecithin in it, and I don't do soy...so I haven't been taking the probiiotic, other than the florastor.

Here's my question for all of you who have done this before:

My back and legs hurt like crazy. And my legs and back are tired like crazy. I think I need more water, but is there something else possibly going on?

(interesting about the garlic/onions....I've been craving onions more than usual. I can't eat garlic - or at least couldn't before - haven't tried it lately)

anyway, any advice on if this is normal healing process would be much appreciated.

[Guest cassidy]

I tried the very low carb diet and couldn't do it. I lost 4 pounds in two weeks and I was already below weight. So, I decided to do low glycemic index. I had done that before when I thought hypoglycemia, not gluten, was my problem. You eat slowly digested carbs which don't spike your blood sugar. Sweet potatoes and rice (not instant, but 20 minute cook type) are ok with this diet. www.glycemicindex.com.

I told my doctor that I was eating these things and she said after the first month it is ok. She even encouraged me to eat rice crackers and cereal again. So, two months in, I'm trying to stay away from sugar, but I'm eating all other carbs. I haven't had any intestinal symptoms (except when I have been glutened).

I like to do research online and then find a second source that agrees with what I found. There is so much info on the internet that I want to make sure I am listening to good opinions. I couldn't find two thoughts that agreed on how to treat candida. Some say the diet is necessary. Some say rx antifungals are necessary for 6 weeks, others say 3 months others say not at all. There are all sorts of other natural remedies that my natural doctor was against, but people online swear by, but they are all different. So, my unfortunate opinion is that there isn't a great solution. I would try your best to get the sugar out of your diet, but don't go crazy. If the sugar in your gum is going to stand in the way of your recovery, then I don't think anyone would recover from this. Most people are not that disaplined and cheat on diets all the time.

Hope you feel better. The first two weeks were very rough on me.

[CarlaB]

Veggies are carbs, so you're not technically "no carbs." I did find I felt better on my candida diet if I ate "real" carbs two (or three, sometimes) times per week. Back then I was not gluten-free, so I would eat a small bowl of oatmeal. Back then I also was not dairy free, so I drank lattes made with half-and-half (lower sugar than milk) every day. I gained 10 pounds eating this way, which I think was due to the fact that my gluten intake was so low and my intestines were healing. The lattes probably contributed, too! If I totally avoided starchy carbs, I felt sick when I worked out. It was usually on a cardio day that I would break down and eat a bowl of oatmeal when I got home from the gym.

[Clark Bent as Stupor-Man]

Here's my question for all of you who have done this before:

My back and legs hurt like crazy. And my legs and back are tired like crazy. I think I need more water, but is there something else possibly going on?

(interesting about the garlic/onions....I've been craving onions more than usual. I can't eat garlic - or at least couldn't before - haven't tried it lately)

anyway, any advice on if this is normal healing process would be much appreciated.

my legs and back have been worse overall since I started the antifungal... I've had leg pain for a while (1-2 yrs) but generally haven't had back pain since last year.. but I have noticed both have worsened in the past 2 weeks with the leg pain being pretty bad at times..

I've also had much worse and constant of a headache while on this antifungal... headache is listed on the actual product sheet from Thorne as one of a few likely reactions... I'm hoping all these symptoms are part of the detoxing and will go away once I clear out the candida

[Rice Cakes]

The reason you HAVE a problem is because your body doesn't contain adequate probiotics in the gut.

celiac disease causes us to leave iron in the gut, which encourages fungal growth. The more likely problem is a diet failure, Stuporman have you been keeping to the diet absolutely? Or has it been there since before you were diagnosed?

celiac disease

Ok who's the wise guy with the filter. What if I wanted to use the abbreviation to mean compact disc instead of Celiac Disease?

[CarlaB]

Ok who's the wise guy with the filter. What if I wanted to use the abbreviation to mean compact disc instead of Celiac Disease?

Go look in the gab room at the threads that have to do with music ... people talk about their celiac disease players and favorite music celiac disease's all the time ... it's good for a laugh! We usually use c. d. or C D

[bluejeangirl]

I have an on going problem with candida. I was first diagnosed in 1985 and did the nystatin mainly with strict diet. Back then they had you eating yogurt alot also. I remember drinking alot of tea made with a type of bark? But I hated it, really hated it. Never felt good because of the die off.

I've known for years that I'm back to square one with all the candida but I don't want to go back to the doctor who'll take me through all his high cost testings and the allergy stuff. I have alot of foods I'm suppose to stay away from also and I kind of do but not completely. You'll find it common to have food allergies because your immune system has been so compromised.

So anyway I tried the vicious cycle diet and found it made me light headed all the time. I'm also hypogycemic. So I stopped that.

Then I went to low on my carbs and I wasn't sleeping and the die off was to strong for me. So I upped my carbs even though I know the healing will take longer I can at least enjoy making seritonin again.

The only thing I take is OregaMax, Capryl, coconut oil and a good probiotic. I don't believe I need anything else. Absolutly no yeast, fermented products, sugars or simple carbs, aged foods.

Where I cheat is I have a glass of red wine (6 oz.) on weekends and I have a small serving of complex carb food with my lunch and supper. Usually brown rice or millet, alittle corn or beans.

I'm going to start eating yogurt again tomorrow. I've been putting it off.

So this is what I do for now,....I'm not in a big hurry but have learned sometimes being to aggressive can be to harsh for my system.

gail

Anyway this works for me

[marciab]

Sooooo, do you think we can ease our way into the candida diet. Over say 2 - 3 months.

Let's say we drop sugars and processed grains. Minimize whole grains. But, not all carbs. That's too hard on our bodies.

Gradually add some form of probiotic. Yogurt, Kefir, supplements.

Take some milder anti fungals sparingly. Pau D'arco tea, garlic, etc.

And then once we have gotten that down, completely drop the carbs while coming in for the kill with a strong anti fungal and probiotic ?

That was my plan anyway

This whole gluten free diet was hard on my body. I reeeally don't want to go through that again.

Marcia