Celiac.com Sponsor (A1):



Celiac.com Sponsor (A1):


Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Lymetoo

I Understand That "tailz" Has Been Banned From This Site.

Recommended Posts

Gina was the one accusing her of that--but I noticed she did not then post the accurate post of what had been misquoted. So I don't know if there was deliberate misqutoing or honest misunderstanding of intent.

Yes but to be fair quoting what someone else said you said is somewhat cyclic...what you really want is the mods to look at your ORIGINAL POSTS in context and let them decide. If you start quoting misquotes.... well, its decending down the same path.

I think it's far more disturbing that Scott deleted MY posts defending tailZ and asking Gina if she was okay. Don't you think there is something wrong with that? I didn't write anything incorrect, illegal, irrational, or nasty. I was also not notified in any way that my posts were deleted.

I think the whole thing is a mess.... but also unless you did read every post carefully (and not read the posts quoted or misquoted) then its real hard to say....

I can't say I did ... I actually stopped posting to that thread or even visiting it after Taliz brought up "The Fall" ....

specifically because of Georg Christoph Lichtenberg's quote.....

Scott however did have access to the whole lot because they are just moved to a side forum and i think if your posts were deleted then its possibly just because they contained quotes from Taliz...

Like I say, I think the whole unpleasantness could have been avoided by quoting the rule #3.

and by having a WRITTEN RULE about not posting explicitly religious views in that thread. I don't mean not asking for prayer etc. I mean saying ALL DISEASES are due to the fall of man. I think it should be obvious that one is not explicit and the other is...

The bottom line is because this was not public noone knows what went on..... I don't however think Scott is likely to have done this lightly; lets face it if I thought he was like that I wouldn't be posting this!


Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. (JC, De Bello Gallico Liber III/XVIII)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

Sorry if this is hijacking, but whether or not all diseases were brought about by the fall of man doesn't matter, because we are all living in a "Post-Fall-of-Man" world . . . so now we just have to deal with it . (Just as we would have to deal with it if there were no such thing as the Fall . . . after all, in the world we live in, there ARE diseases - genetic and otherwise - and we have to cope! That's part of life . . . and we grow and learn from our experiences.)

Obviously I must have missed the other thread, or I wouldn't have been worked up enough to post this response here.

Now back to the orginal discussion . . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

gfp said Personally I'm not ready to exclude Lymes disease as a possible trigger for some celiacs...we don't know enough IMHO... but I am ready to say that it can't possibly cause ALL cases because of what you say and also many celiacs live in Lyme free areas they have never left!

There are no Lyme free areas in my opinion. Some areas have fewer cases than others, but no place is free of disease. Animals travel, birds migrate, pets travel with their humans. Everyone should be alert to it. Many of us who have this long term never had a rash.......keep that in mind!


Negative biopsy for celiac 1980

Fibromyalgia 1980

IBS 1980

Interstitial Cystitis 1992

Systemic yeast

Diagnosed w/ Chronic Lyme Disease 2000

Diagnosed w/ Chronic babesia 2000

Tachycardia 2001

Asthma 2005

Have had Lyme and babesia for

about 48 yrs.

Began gluten-free July 19 '06

Native TEXAN living in Missouri

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

Why would Gina need to repost? Her original post was still there, was it not?

I read that post of yours, and my recollection was that by the way you wrote it you were asking her if she was mentally disturbed.

When I looked for Gina's original post to see what tailZ had misquoted, I couldn't find it. I'm not saying that it wasn't there--just that I couldn't find it.

To the best of MY recollection, I posted something like, " Gina, your recent posts are so full of rage, they don't sound like your usual thoughtful and sensitive ones--are you okay?" And then I tried to joke a little by saying that maybe it was the full moon?

I never asked if she was mentally disturbed. I did point out in a later post that Gina had posted quite a bit on another thread here about her experience with being bipolar, and that maybe that might have explained her sudden rage, and that perhaps we could cut her a break.

Asking if someone is okay is a far cry from asking if they are mentally disturbed (which has all sorts of unpleasant connotations), so please don't put words in MY mouth, eKatherine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

Asking if someone is okay is a far cry from asking if they are mentally disturbed

I read this post and did not think you were implying anyone was "mentally disturbed." It didnt come across that way to me anyway.


Rachel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

gfp said Personally I'm not ready to exclude Lymes disease as a possible trigger for some celiacs...we don't know enough IMHO... but I am ready to say that it can't possibly cause ALL cases because of what you say and also many celiacs live in Lyme free areas they have never left!

There are no Lyme free areas in my opinion. Some areas have fewer cases than others, but no place is free of disease. Animals travel, birds migrate, pets travel with their humans. Everyone should be alert to it. Many of us who have this long term never had a rash.......keep that in mind!

There are only three species of ticks able to carry lymes disease and transmit it.

To my knowledge noone who has never left Iceland ever contracted Lymes disease. However iceland has a large celiac population.

I read this post and did not think you were implying anyone was "mentally disturbed." It didnt come across that way to me anyway.

No and I doubt fiddle-faddle meant it that way BUT... if someone is bipolar or paranoid (Im in no way suggesting Gina is) then it could be interpreted that way....


Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. (JC, De Bello Gallico Liber III/XVIII)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

To the best of MY recollection, I posted something like, " Gina, your recent posts are so full of rage, they don't sound like your usual thoughtful and sensitive ones--are you okay?" And then I tried to joke a little by saying that maybe it was the full moon?

I never asked if she was mentally disturbed. I did point out in a later post that Gina had posted quite a bit on another thread here about her experience with being bipolar, and that maybe that might have explained her sudden rage, and that perhaps we could cut her a break.

Asking if someone is okay is a far cry from asking if they are mentally disturbed (which has all sorts of unpleasant connotations), so please don't put words in MY mouth, eKatherine.

I didn't read the original thread so I'm not getting the full picture but from these quotes - lines you yourself culled - I gotta tell ya, this is seriously offensive stuff :blink: . It looks like you were snidely suggesting that her opinions were invalid because she had a mental illness. Now I know you wouldn't deliberately try to stigmatize someone just to win an argument. There must be alot missing in translation here! :unsure:

Article on Mental Illness and Stigma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

I didn't read the original thread so I'm not getting the full picture but from these quotes - lines you yourself culled - I gotta tell ya, this is seriously offensive stuff :blink: . It looks like you were snidely suggesting that her opinions were invalid because she had a mental illness. Now I know you wouldn't deliberately try to stigmatize someone just to win an argument. There must be alot missing in translation here! :unsure:

Article on Mental Illness and Stigma

What is tolerance? -- it is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly -- that is the first law of nature.

Voltaire

One can read into that whatever ones wishes and by compounding what someone said over several seperate posts compound it further! Knowing fiddle-faddle as I do I find it hard to believe she meant it like that...

Several times I have been accused of being too tough or last time it was "HARSH".by a third party.. and then in most cases the poster has actually thanked me. This is always a danger of communicating without facial expression and in economy of words on a board like this.

I don't agree with fiddle-faddle's interpretation of Gina BUT I do not accept she would deliberatly say anything offensive but people can take offense at the slightest thing....

Yesterday I was buying groceries and the Arab guy spotted my accent and told me the price in English so I joked back and asked "How much? 22 Euros " in Arabic.... and he got all offended....

Meanwhile elsewhere some guys are asked to get off a plane on the basis of them speaking Arabic?

Prejudices are what fools use for reason.

and no I don't mean your a fool, Im just in the mood to quote Voltaire!


Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. (JC, De Bello Gallico Liber III/XVIII)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

gfp, what accent? I've never noticed one.... :D


Husband has Celiac Disease and

Husband misdiagnosed for 27 yrs -

The misdiagnosis was: IBS or colitis

Mis-diagnosed from 1977 to 2003 by various gastros including one of the largest,

most prestigious medical groups in northern NJ which constantly advertises themselves as

being the "best." This GI told him it was "all in his head."

Serious Depressive state ensued

Finally Diagnosed with celiac disease in 2003

Other food sensitivities: almost all fruits, vegetables, spices, eggs, nuts, yeast, fried foods, roughage, soy.

Needs to gain back at least 25 lbs. of the 40 lbs pounds he lost - lost a great amout of body fat and muscle

Developed neuropathy in 2005

Now has lymphadema 2006It is my opinion that his subsequent disorders could have been avoided had he been diagnosed sooner by any of the dozen or so doctors he saw between 1977 to 2003

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

I didn't read the original thread so I'm not getting the full picture but from these quotes - lines you yourself culled - I gotta tell ya, this is seriously offensive stuff :blink: . It looks like you were snidely suggesting that her opinions were invalid because she had a mental illness. Now I know you wouldn't deliberately try to stigmatize someone just to win an argument. There must be alot missing in translation here! :unsure:

Article on Mental Illness and Stigma

Since you didn't get to read the original posts, you missed that Gina full-out attacked tailZ, and that there was a rage and viciousness to her posts that shocked a lot of us (to be fair, not everyone was shocked--eKatherine completely agreed with Gina, but there were many of us who were wondering why Gina was over-reacting so). She also complained to Scott, and I believe it was her complaints about tailZ (who in my opinion did nothing wrong) that got tailZ kicked off the board.

I was not looking to explain her point of view, but the viciousness and rage of her posts. Sudden rages are a common behavior of bipolar. I actually was suggesting that as an excuse to cut her a break (which you yourself highlighted). To cut someone a break means to give them the benefit of the doubt.

As gfp said, you put 2 things together that I said on different posts, added them up to equal something that wasn't even close to my intent, let alone what the unadorned words meant. I asked her if she was okay; I pointed out the difference between her recent posts and her earlier ones, I tried to joke about it to give her an easy "out ("Yeah, sorry, must be the full moon!"), and in a later discussion, I mentioned her bipolarity also as a way to give her an easy out ("sorry, I went off my meds" or "I got glutened and I wasn't myself,") and to avoid people attacking her. Although I thought that Gina was totally in the wrong, I did say that I didn't think either tailZ or Gina should be banned.

You totally misinterpreted my words (and even rereading them, I don't think there is THAT much room for misinterpretation. You added ideas and intent that were not there. Yes, I agree, much must have been lost in translation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

Since you didn't get to read the original posts, you missed that Gina full-out attacked tailZ, and that there was a rage and viciousness to her posts that shocked a lot of us (to be fair, not everyone was shocked--eKatherine completely agreed with Gina, but there were many of us who were wondering why Gina was over-reacting so). She also complained to Scott, and I believe it was her complaints about tailZ (who in my opinion did nothing wrong) that got tailZ kicked off the board.

I saw her post as a breath of rationality. I will continue to warn people when they are about to do something risky based on what they see as ideas that are superior because they are not contaminated by science.


Nothing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

To my knowledge noone who has never left Iceland ever contracted Lymes disease. However iceland has a large celiac population.

Sorry, I was referring to the United States, though Lyme is found all around the world. I think Iceland would have VERY little of it!! :D

There are only three species of ticks able to carry lymes disease and transmit it.

and PS>....WHICH THREE species of ticks would that be?????


Negative biopsy for celiac 1980

Fibromyalgia 1980

IBS 1980

Interstitial Cystitis 1992

Systemic yeast

Diagnosed w/ Chronic Lyme Disease 2000

Diagnosed w/ Chronic babesia 2000

Tachycardia 2001

Asthma 2005

Have had Lyme and babesia for

about 48 yrs.

Began gluten-free July 19 '06

Native TEXAN living in Missouri

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

Enough is enough, I thing the avenue is exhausted. Pointes were made, accepted or rejected.

But the bottom line here is that it is time to close this tread. There are newbies out there and they need our help. If you are spending time on a "go no where subject", you are not available to help others. All of you, remember where you began here on this site. I did not know where to turn and I expect that so many of you did not.

Chill your buns and go forth and help the ones in need. Be done with this mess.


Lisa

Gluten Free - August 15, 2004

"Not all who wander are lost" - JRR Tolkien

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

Right on Lisa.


"Throw yourself a pity-party and you'll be the only guest." - Earlene Fowler

Diag. Celiac Disease by positive blood test 2/03/2004

Allergies - corn, soy, casein, egg whites and wheat

Morphia Scleroderma

Osteoarthritis

Hypothyroid and Hperthyroid

Essential Tremors

Asthma

Migraines

Fibromyalgia - diag. in 1978 when they called it Fibrositis

PAD Peripheral Artery Disease

Angina and Atrial Fibrillation

Gluten Ataxia

Vitiligo

Scoliosis of the spine (caused by malabsorption and it is horribly painful) This would be enough reason for someone to go gluten free.

Ocular Myastenia Gravis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

My response was prompted by Gena's post in the other, on-going thread, and I thought this was a better place to post it. The topic is done and finished with when no one feels the need to respond any more. I completely agree about the need not to confuse people, but there's been lots of confusing people going on.

Count me in as confused--I didn't know there was another on-going thread dealing with this. :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

Count me in as confused--I didn't know there was another on-going thread dealing with this. :blink:

Count me in on check'in out of this one. Whew!

Lisa


Lisa

Gluten Free - August 15, 2004

"Not all who wander are lost" - JRR Tolkien

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

Guest Robbin
:blink: Let this thing die already... beating a dead horse with talking about it. I hope all involved get well, are happy, find answers, and take time to smell the flowers. And all of the rest of us --the same :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

Sorry, I was referring to the United States, though Lyme is found all around the world. I think Iceland would have VERY little of it!! :D

and PS>....WHICH THREE species of ticks would that be?????

Lymetoo:

That's really all I'm trying to say is that I can't dismiss Lymes leading to celiac but since celiac's exists in places with no Lymes (and Iceland is possibly specially high in celiacs) that it cannot be the sole cause of celiacs.

But the bottom line here is that it is time to close this tread. There are newbies out there and they need our help. If you are spending time on a "go no where subject", you are not available to help others. All of you, remember where you began here on this site. I did not know where to turn and I expect that so many of you did not.

Chill your buns and go forth and help the ones in need. Be done with this mess.

Agreed


Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. (JC, De Bello Gallico Liber III/XVIII)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

Hello Everyone,

I think Ursula has clearly explained why Tailz (AKA Breezy) was banned--and it wasn't because of her theory that lyme disease causes celiac disease. The part that Ursula left out was that she was also PM'img people with her theory--and was doing this even if someone had not made a single post regarding lyme disease. In her PM's she was pushing her theory to people who didn't even ask for it and were totally uninterested in it. Several people complained about this to me. Additionally, as Ursula explained in great detail, she was responding to nearly all threads, no matter how unrelated they were (for example one person was just seeking a doctor in a certain city), with her theory on lyme disease--again, these people didn't ask for this info but Tailz became obsessed with giving it to them anyway. She was warned twice to stop using the board to publicize her unscientific theories to EVERYONE here, but she ignored the warnings and simply created a new personality and continued doing exactly the same thing. Ultimately we made the decision to ban her and it was the right decision.

I have no problem with members creating a topic called "Does Lyme Disease Cause Celiac Disease"? and creating a discussion about it. No problem. I do, however, have a big problem with someone who goes into nearly every current, unrelated topic on this board to try to spread such a theory (not to mention--abuse the PM feature to do this as well).

The board isn't meant to be used for such purposes--no matter what the theory is. Remember, if someone is making an extraodinary claim that goes against mainstream science it is up to them to provide the scientific evidence for it--it isn't up to everyone else to disprove the claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. She provided no scientific studies or evidence to back her claim, other than her explanation that her doctor thought lyme disease causes celiac disease--but again, that wasn't why she was banned.

Take care,

Scott


Scott Adams

Celiac.com - Celiac Disease Board Moderator

Founder Celiac.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

I do, however, have a big problem with someone who goes into nearly every current, unrelated topic on this board to try to spread such a theory (not to mention--abuse the PM feature to do this as well).

Take care,

Scott

I so agree with this 'above botton line'. Based on this alone, I think you and the moderators did the right thing.

Judy in Philly


Judy in Southern CA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter

I see "Fiddle-Faddle" continues to make things up about me - telling others on here I was 'vicious with Tailz' and that I am bi-polar (a total fabrication on her part)...

...perhaps Scott would like to ban Fiddle-Faddle now for that...I believe he should - and, I should PM him at this point now, but won't, unless Fiddle-Faddle continues HER vicious assualt on ME -

About Tailz...

Tailz is gone, along with her proselytizing about God's will...and her COMPLETELY IRRATIONAL thoughts that Lymme disease was messing up genetic studies about Celiac Disease-

THANK GOD Scott banned her - her thoughts couldn't have been much more irrational, and were VERY dangerous to those who come here seeking rational emotional support and REAL Science...

... as soon as I pointed out some of her nasty tricks (in a rational, straight-forward way - NOT vicious), she began to have a melt-down...it was sad to see, but perhaps she needed 'to hit bottom' to begin to lose her obsession and start to deal with her health in a rational fashion. She was so convinced, and wanting to convince everyone else, that her thoughts were the only ones that had any truth to them - it was sad, and SHE became abusive - just like an alcoholic who is confronted...she was/is still? addicted to her beliefs...which were not supported in the real/rational world...if you read her bio info, she states that she believes Lymme is passed down from generation to generation and causes Celiac Disease...and that God made all of us perfect - that environment is responsible for everything...

I do hope that she finds a way to break free of her obsession with those thoughts and her desires to 'make it her mission' (as she put it) to convinve the world of it -

Anyway - I am copying and pasting below my last post on that lovely 'coping with' thread that Tailz posted in order to promote her Anti-Science stuff about colloidal silver:

Hope it clarifies a few things for those who didn't ever read that thread, but have been reading Fiddle-Faddles posts since then -

Again, it's SO sad to see people like Tailz, and NOW Fiddle-Faddle, slandering and putting down those of us on here who try to keep this place rational -

---------

Two things...just for the record:

1) I am not on any meds for bi-polar - not sure who wrote that, as no time to check - I do, however, take meds for minor depression/anxiety and now also for ADHD - if anyone has a problem with that, you've got problems...

2) Also, below is the full interaction between myself and Scott - please note that I did not address only 'the proselitying' (sp? - sorry, also have dyslexia and a poor memory - doesn't make me inept in my assessment of Tailz, though - what she did on here, was pretty easy to see, if you ask me...anyway...)...

Tailz' decisions to write untrue things about those who weren't giving her the replies she wanted to hear was another thing I addressed to Scott - her posts were akin to that bit above about me being on meds for bipolar - no such post appears anywhere by me on this forum - because I am not bi-polar - however, my older sister and paternal aunt are...does that also make me 'irrational?'....OK...back to Tailz - she attacked other members on here who disagreed with her, in both subtle, and not-so-subtle fashions, - not certain if that's the main reason (?) why her posts got nixed, appropriately by Scott - please note, though, that I never asked him to delete anything.

Anyway - I didn't, at first, think it necessary to get into the full problem I had with Tailz' posts in this thread, but since some members seem to think I was only '100%pro-Science and somehow anti-religion' .....which I obviously was not...nor did I ever say anything along those lines...I think it best, at this point, to just copy and paste exactly what I wrote to Scott and exactly what he said in reply - please note that my interpretations of Tailz' posts were apparently supported 'across the board' by Admin in his brief and direct reply of "I agree, I warned her again.' AND - apparently SOMEONE ELSE besides myself also complained about her posts...hence the 'again' in there...

...and also note, please... Admin, removed tailz' posts - I did not request that in my PM to him - he chose to do so - and I respect him FULLY for having done so-

OK...well...that's it for this trip into cyber-support...can't read all posts, as have to do chores, etc - I just saw the untrue new thing about me being on meds for bipolar, and knew someone was fishing for a reply from me, so there you have it-

OK...still hoping to see religion posts in the chat room....and no more untrue posts about members by other members... I see that hasn't occurred, though... but, hope springs eternal...

Gina


"Get busy living

or get busy dying."

From: The Shawshank Redemption

--------------------------------------------------------------

gluten-free since Jan 1 '05

Positive response to diet within days, felt 'alive again' within 2 weeks

Feb 22 '05:

Diagnosed "Celiac Sprue, and IBS" by a GI doc, Dr. David Lin of Danville, CA

via blood testing 53 days after I began the gluten-free diet on my own:

Test results at 53 days POST going gluten-free were:

Gliadin AB IgA = 29.9

Since 30+ = positive for Celiac Disease when ingesting gluten, my doc

diagnosed me with Celiac Sprue then and there.

Gliadin AB IgG was 5.6 at that point

-------------------------------------------

Endoscopy with biopsies, AND colonoscopy with biopsies were done,

only to rule out other possible GI problems (especially intestinal

lymphoma) - My doctor told me the results indicated "no current damage

found" - and that as long as I stay gluten-free, I don't need another

biopsy for ten years.

Follow-up blood testing was done about one year later, by the same

Gastro doc, in Nov '05:

Gliadin AB IgA =26, Gliadin AB IgG <1

Blood testing done again by him, 5 months later (March '06)

He then told me my tests results were back to normal, and "Keep up the

good work! You can't argue with success!" :-)

I now see him one time per year for routine testing to make sure I am

staying gluten-free.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ADDTIONALLY:

I was also diagnosed as positive for antibodies and autoimmune

response to gliadin by Enterolab, via stool specimen taken 56 days

gluten-free

and I have one of the two genes that 'cause' Celiac Disease:

"HLA-DQ8," via Enterolabs cheek cell test kit

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I began a COMPLETE 'Gluten-free Casein-free' diet in Nov '05, due to:

"positive" for casein antibodies from Enterolab (in Feb '05)

and

"positive" for casein IgG (Elisa) via York Labs' finger-prick blood

test, Sept '05

and continued 'stomach pains,' although nothing compared to before

going gluten-free....

UPDATE: ALL remaining symptoms disappeared within weeks of going gluten-free&CF!

**********************

My PAST illnesses I believe are attributable to Untreated Celiac Disease:

Recurrent ear and throat infections in childhood

Frequent childhood stomach aches, underweight, picky eater

Tooth enamel problems/excessive cavities in childhood

Diagnosed in 20's with non-allergic rhinitis

Two spontaneous abortions (childless)

IBS diagnosis at age 28 (all better post going gluten-free and casein-free)

["Horrible" digestive problems from ages 32-47 - excess gas,

diarrhea gone post gluten-free!]

Reflux diagnosis at age 35 ('reflux' gone post gluten-free)

ADHD diagnosis at age 38 and at age 48 (not as bad with Gluten-free Casein-free diet)

Broke elbow in 2 places, age 39

Osteopenia diagnosed at age 44 (bone scan revealed thinning of spine -

taking Calcium and Vit D now)

Fibromyalgia diagnosis at age 40 (fatigue and pain all gone post gluten-free!)

Minor depression with anxiety diagnosed at age 42 (taking Paxil)

Skin cancer - squamous at age 43 and pre-melanoma at age 45

Adult acne (this, too, went away, but only after going dairy-free)

Topical dermatitis (so bad I needed steroid shots) diagnosed at age 46

(That's gone now, too!)

Excessive bruising of skin began at age 45:

I was told by derm doc AND family physician "That's just thin, aging

skin, nothing you can do about that" (GUESS WHAT?! ...NO unusual

bruising POST going gluten-free! I can now wear skirts and shorts

again!)

SO many years of being sick...

Hopefully, others will benefit from Science, and the increasing media

attention being given to Celiac Disease and gluten-based illnesses,

and will not have to go through what I, and others on here, have had

to go through.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join eNewsletter



Join eNewsletter