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Ursa Major

No Support At Home

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For the record, I've tried marriage counseling with my husband, and it's useless. Since he seriously thinks he is perfect, and I am the problem, he goes to help the counselor fix me. Which makes things worse, not better. But I go to ongoing counseling myself, just to be able to cope. Otherwise I'd go over the edge.....I better not talk about what would happen then. And it isn't that I might harm others.......that is not within me to do.

Susie really is a kind soul. I was out this afternoon, and when I got back, I saw a note on the wall across from the front door, saying 'Mom and Dad, don't read this note to Janet', pointing to a note peeking out behind a picture frame. I could just make out that it is an apology about what she wrote under Janet's note last night. She is the type of person who can't live with herself after being unkind, and will apologize sooner or later.

All her friends (including a boy who is 18) go to her with their problems, because she is a good listener, and is compassionate and kind. It really hurts me to see a sweet kid like her being treated like garbage by her older sister, and her dad wanting to control her every move.

I met with a friend this afternoon (she is also the pastor's wife), who suggested that her, her husband, my husband and I need to get together (we've done it before, any difference it made was temporary) to get my husband to see how abusive he is. And to let him know that it is imperative for Janet to move out. She has the money to afford that, she has a full-time management job at a very large potato farm, and a part-time job as a freelance photographer for our local newspaper. I know she is trying to save money for a down payment on a house she and her boyfriend want to buy for when they get married (and Rusla, they are Christians and won't just live together before being married, he sleeps in our basement when he is here, while she sleeps in her room upstairs). But with them both working full time, they should be able to afford a modest house by next spring anyway, even if she has to pay rent.

Ursula: I seriously think that if you can make this about Ken, not YOU it would be better.

He already thinks he's perfect (or perhaps he knows is not and is acting so hard to be perfect ;) ) BUT I can see that having perhaps the only person he respects telling him about the way he treats YOU is likely to have negative effects on the way he treats you (as if it can get worse?)

Ask the pastors wife about the possibility of the pastor addressing in the context of your community how he treats people..... don't give him a specific person to blame (except the pastor and like I say that is a part of his job)....

Seriously do you think I would be recommending a Pastor unless I thought this was the best?

He could give Ken some extra responsibility BUT say he needs to have spiritual councelling in order to do it properly for instance.

So far as Janet moving out.... I respect the "no sex before marriage" BUT they can live in the same house and have seperate rooms. Yes people will talk but isn't this between her and God? Is this not putting what people think BEFORE their relationship's with God?

The effort of controlling the gossip might well take over some of the controlling aspects of HER life.

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I don't know what the rules are on this board but IMHO people should not be able to give others such dangerous medical advice here. That someone who is supposedly a medical student would do so is quite alarming. Advising a celiac to eat gluten? That is just too risky. A celiac who eats gluten is risking everything from vitamin malabsorption to dehydration to (possibly) GI cancers. And remember that while Ursula might read this and think "he's a jerk, I will listen to my body rather than to this random guy on the internet who doesn't believe in celiac disease"... There may be newly diagnosed people on here who actually believe IMResident's terrible, dangerous advice (esp since he's supposedly a "medical professional"). Are there any mods willing to put their foot down about this?

Wow, some people seem to be really overreacting. This is not dangerous medical advice. Going on gluten again is common in blood test positive celiacs for the gluten challange for 6 months or more without any adverse long term effects. I said she should TRY it for 2 weeks. No harm in that. Believe me this is NOT like insulin, and it's not going to kill her. :rolleyes: I tried to help by giving medical facts.

By the way this is my last post on this forum. So, I'd like to wish Ursula and other people on this board continued recovery from their health problems.

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Wow, some people seem to be really overreacting. This is not dangerous medical advice. Going on gluten again is common in blood test positive celiacs for the gluten challange for 6 months or more without any adverse long term effects. I said she should TRY it for 2 weeks. No harm in that. Believe me this is NOT like insulin, and it's not going to kill her. :rolleyes: I tried to help by giving medical facts.

By the way this is my last post on this forum. So, I'd like to wish Ursula and other people on this board continued recovery from their health problems.

People who over react usually have a reason.

Since your not posting again you won't be able to answer this but is there any evidence that a gluten challenge doesn't harm people?

I ask since I know of several people who have been hospitalised by gluten challenges.... and also because evidence seems to exist that not all people ever fully recover from the effects of glutening, especially older people (post 30's)

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Seriously do you think I would be recommending a Pastor unless I thought this was the best?

:lol: Steve, gotta luv ya - this statement gave me a good chuckle. Just goes to show how much you care about us and Ursula in particular in this situation.

.... and also because evidence seems to exist that not all people ever fully recover from the effects of glutening, especially older people (post 30's)

You have no idea how true this is......

For me, the diagnosis of refractory celiac sprue is official now and even I have to believe it (reminds me, I must alter my signature.....) The latest biopsy in August show complete villous atrophy despite being gluten free for over 3 years AND my bloodwork showed normal antibody levels (proving I am completely complying with the gluten free diet)..... I am one of those "Over 30's" who are past the point of recovery....

Ursula,

What you need is to move to Newfoundland. You will be adopted by the whole community and well taken care of by some of the most caring, kind, compassionate people on the face of this planet! I guess I am kind of biased, since my family is Newfie! :P:D

I remember months ago, you stating you were going to hide some money away bit by bit to plan on leaving. I fervently hope you were successful in doing that - you need to get out of that situation, not only for you, but for your daughter. I have to wonder how much emotional damage is being done to her by all this horrendous treatment of not only you but her.......

Know that we love you and are here for all the emotional support you need......

Hugs.

Karen

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Wow, some people seem to be really overreacting. This is not dangerous medical advice. Going on gluten again is common in blood test positive celiacs for the gluten challange for 6 months or more without any adverse long term effects. I said she should TRY it for 2 weeks. No harm in that. Believe me this is NOT like insulin, and it's not going to kill her. :rolleyes: I tried to help by giving medical facts.

By the way this is my last post on this forum. So, I'd like to wish Ursula and other people on this board continued recovery from their health problems.

Very easy for someone to say who doesn't have to live with the effects of a glutening!!!! It's like intentionally exposing yourself to the flu because it won't kill you!!! Plus, gluten challenges to confirm diagnosis are not considered necessary today ... some do them for initial testing because they've been off gluten for a while and want a firm diagnosis.

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Wow, some people seem to be really overreacting. This is not dangerous medical advice. Going on gluten again is common in blood test positive celiacs for the gluten challange for 6 months or more without any adverse long term effects. I said she should TRY it for 2 weeks. No harm in that. Believe me this is NOT like insulin, and it's not going to kill her. :rolleyes: I tried to help by giving medical facts.

By the way this is my last post on this forum. So, I'd like to wish Ursula and other people on this board continued recovery from their health problems.

Don't believe everything you read in a text book.

Oh and by the way it can kill you. People have died from this diseases, some have gotten colon and stomach cancer. Many have almost starved to death and this disease causes many problems some of which are life threatening. It is more than obvious that you don't have this problem or personally know people with this problem.

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I doubt I can add a whole lot to what's already been said, but at least I can add my support. I also have family and relatives who think I'm totally nuts. I won't go into it, but they really tried to do some horrible stuff. Ironically, many of them are definitely showing Celiac symptoms too. I know they will NEVER accept it. I am still a target for their nags now and then, but they seem to have figured out I am firm in my resolve. They can't prove the diet doesn't work, so they haven't any actual leverage.

My thoughts are as follows:

Have you asked them if you should go back on gluten, reverting to your former condition including the diarrhea, pain - AND all the pain killers, etc? Do they recall what life was like then compared to now? I am not suggesting you take their answer seriously, but just to see what they'd say - a reminder to them that you aren't nuts, the diet is helping, and so forth. Ask them how much cyanide they'd like in their food, to which a reply of "None" is the obvious answer. Ask them if they know that raw lima beans contain a cyanide compound, but cooking the beans deactivates it. Then ask them if they know that just one 8 oz. package of apricot pits can have enough cyanide to kill a healthy adult! Here's an actual report of such: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...750C0A965958260

Would it be possible to use Stevia or some other sweetener and make your own chocolate treats? If sugar is what your husband thinks is the problem with the chocolate, maybe you can prove it one way or the other for him? I seem to recall hearing that eating chocolate in the form of the actual cacoa beans is supposed to have some true health benefits. Here's a page about raw chocolate nutrients. Looks like the beans are rich in magnesium just to name one. The Google results included one that said "Cacao beans contain a great deal of fat, in addition to small amounts of mildly stimulating alkaloids, including caffeine." I didn't follow it to see the rest. I'm sure you know how to do your research.

I wonder what would happen if you set your browser's home page to this thread? If others use the same computer, that might be one interesting day indeed. Only you can decide if that's a good idea or not. I'm guessing though that it's a bad idea. Especially with the references to a trip. Unless somehow that would make them realize how serious this all is. Again only you can know, but my relatives would likely not react well if I tried such a thing.

I truly hope you can get your family in line behind you rather than against you. You could use the extra momentum.

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Thanks again, guys. Karen, maybe I need a Jewish Newfie mother (is there such a person?) :D By the way, have you tried if you have other intolerances that may be causing the villious atrophy? From everything I read, dairy and soy can cause it, too. I am sure you have, but I just want to make sure nothing is overlooked, I really feel for you (and will be praying).

Yes, I have been putting money away. But now I need new glasses, and Ken doesn't agree that I need the ones I ordered. I have very sensitive skin, and get an open sore on my nose that gets very painful from the nosepiece of my glasses. Those already are really light, but not light enough. I can't wear contact lenses. So, I need the ultra-light titanium frames (well, it's not even really a frame, but a nosepiece and arms of titanium attached to lenses). They are so light, you can't even tell you're wearing glasses.

So, because Ken said I couldn't have them, I told him I have some money saved up. Immediately he asked, 'where did you get that?', and I just said, 'well, I used to have a job last year, right? and he dropped it. I wasn't lying, but he thought I meant I saved up money from when I had my job last year.

Anyway, he said I could have those glasses if I paid a couple of hundred dollars myself. I also need new reading lenses (my right eye has changed quite a bit, while the left has stayed the same, and I am getting headaches because my eyes are unbalanced with the lenses I have). Meaning, that I have to pay for those lenses myself as well. And the combination means that I have to start from scratch with squirreling money away.

RiceGuy, the weird thing is, that Janet and Ken get very upset with me when they see me eating something that they think isn't safe for me to eat (they don't really know, of course, what I can and cannot eat, because they refuse to find out ANYTHING about celiac disease, other than what I tell them). Plus, Ken gets angry when he thinks I am eating something that HE thinks would stop me from losing weight (again, having no idea about those things).

So, if I'd suggest going back on gluten, they'd definitely yell at me and declare me insane. Yet, they'll cover the house in gluten and think that's okay. It's not logical. But then, you've never been able to accuse either one of them to be a logical person. :blink:

You see, neither one of them is a bad person. Just misguided. Janet has seen her dad treat me like I am no good all her life. That is the problem with her attitude, of course. Like father, like daughter. And the two of them together in the same house, ganging up on me, is just horrible.

Steve, thanks for your thoughts and for truly trying to help, I appreciate it. The weird thing is, that just about everybody thinks that Ken is this incredibly nice person. He treats people in the community well. Of course, he doesn't really let any of them close, our pastor is the only one he actually opens up to. Everybody else just gets his best impersonation of the perfect Christian.

And even the pastor and his wife are telling me now that I shouldn't tell anybody but them what's happening, because as a 'good wife', I need to make sure I don't damage his good reputation. Meaning, that his reputation, and the work he does for the church, being a 'pillar of the community' is far more important than I am. In effect, I am now asked to 'keep the family secret' for the greater good, putting a guilt trip on me! I am very upset about that, and I'm not sure what to do yet.

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There is no need to go back on a gluten-free diet once a person has a formal diagnosis of celiac disease, and there is good evidence that even those who do not have a formal diagnosis but do have gluten intolerance should also discontinue eating gluten forever. The gluten challenge that you are referring to is being used less and less by doctors because scientific findings have determined that most people with celiac disease have little or no symtoms at all. For those with little or no symptoms going back on the diet will likely accomplish nothing. Celiacs who do go back on a gluten containing diet increase their risk of cancer and other disorders associated with celiac disease--regardless of whether or not they have symptoms.

So advising a diagnosed celiac to "just forget about the glutening symptoms" and eat gluten for "about 2 weeks" and "see how you feel" and "if you feel the same just forget about the whole thing" is very, very poor medical advice. As you may know the damage caused by celiac disease can take years to reverse, but it has been shown that in those with celiac disease even relatively short periods of gluten consumption can lead to intestinal damage that can take weeks, months or years to reverse, depending on the person.

In summary, advising a diagnosed celiac to go back on a regular gluten-containing diet is not good advice, even if it is only for a short period of time. Certainly the only reason a doctor would advise such a thing would be to run a test to verify or determine if somone has the disease, which would be pointless in someone who has already been diagnosed. Again, most people with celiac disease have little or no symptoms, but must remain gluten-free to avoid serious heath risks.

Here are some related articles that may help you:

Challenging the Gluten Challenge - By Dr. Ron Hoggan, Ed.D.

Celiac Disease—Gluten Sensitivity: What’s the Difference? By Ron Hoggan

Early Diagnosis of Gluten Sensitivity: Before the Villi are Gone by By Kenneth Fine, M.D.

Gluten-free Diet and Quality of Life in Patients with Screen-detected Celiac Disease

Take care,

Scott

Wow, some people seem to be really overreacting. This is not dangerous medical advice. Going on gluten again is common in blood test positive celiacs for the gluten challange for 6 months or more without any adverse long term effects. I said she should TRY it for 2 weeks. No harm in that. Believe me this is NOT like insulin, and it's not going to kill her. :rolleyes: I tried to help by giving medical facts.

By the way this is my last post on this forum. So, I'd like to wish Ursula and other people on this board continued recovery from their health problems.

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Ursula, I can't help disagreeing with your assessment of Ken. If my husband treated me like I am no good, and taught my duaghter to do the same, would you say he was a good person, but misguided? UUUURRRRGGHH! (Sorry, that's steam coming out of my ears--I know that I have no right to say that anyone is not a good person, but it sure sounds like Ken is just a big phony, and a typical abusive husband, and your pastor and his wife are enabling him and in the process, belittling you.)

SOMEONE WHO DELIBERATELY HURTS SOMEONE ELSE IS NOT A GOOD PERSON.

Please, please, PLEASE don't tell him you have any more money, or he will go looking for it, steal it, or find a way to make you use it all up. I know lying is totally against your nature, and this is the first time in my life I can remember suggesting that anyone lie on purpose, but I think from now on, you need to lie about your money to keep it safe. This is for your future survival. Tell him you used it all up on the new glasses, or on groceries fro your daughter, anything. And make sure that there is no way he can find any record of a separate account for you. I don't know how you could do this, but contact your local women's shelter for advice.

I'm really worried about you.

On a slightly lighter note--why are you unable to wear contact lenses? I ask because I was told that I could not wear soft lenses by a fancy schmancy opthalmologist who tried one pair on me (they were the wrong size). Hard lenses weren't a good option because the air is so darn gritty here in Pittsburgh, I kept gettin grit blown into my eyes, and it would scratch my cornea when I blinked because it would get trapped under the lens (ouch).

But one day, a colleague recommended an optometrist at Sears (yeah, I know, I couldn't believe it either). But he was so convincing, I finally gave it a try,. The Sears optician was fantastic--he tried 9 different kinds of soft lenses on me until we found one that worked, and that didn't dry out in my eyes in 15 minutes.

Turned out, Dr. Fancy Schmancy had tried the thinnest lens with the highest percentage of water, which immediately dried out, leaving my eye feeling like there was a piece of glass stuck in it. The Sears optometrist, on the other had, thought that a slightly thicker lens with a much lower water content would be more comfortable, and he was right. Been wearing them ever since--and over the last 5-6 years, the manufacturers really have improved them. I do have some astigmatism, in addition to being very nearsighted, but the newer lenses partially correct the astigmatism even though they are not the TOric lenses (made especially for astigmatism).

Just thought I'd throw that in there just in case your case is similar.

Anyway, save, save ,save, and do whatever you can to earn a little extra money. You've been so helpful on this board and done so much research--maybe you can hook up with someone at the local University at whatever nutrition program they have, or become an advisor for the local hospital's food service or something....

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Alison, I can't work with people per se, I get overwhelmed very quickly doing that, and then I stop functioning. But I have started web design courses at our community college in the next city (a 40 minute drive from here) on Wednesday. According to our instructor, I should be able to design websites by December (after the second course). I plan on taking more courses after Christmas (probably graphic design). Ken is paying for them, because the excellent reason I gave him was, that our church website sucks, and needs somebody to fix it up. The guy who is doing it now is a computer guy, but simply doesn't have the time. He is very excited, and told me that the site (which he didn't design) needs to be replaced, not fixed, and he can hardly wait for me to do that.

So, Ken is very willing to pay for the courses, because it will help the church. ;) But, while I honestly plan on making a new website for our church and be the webmaster, the real reason for taking the courses is, to start my own webdesign business, to be able to make enough money to be independent. And I can do it from my own computer, without being forced to constantly interact with people personally. It is the most fun thing to do that I can think of! And I have several people already who are interested in having a website done and maintained by me once I'm ready.

You know, Ken and Janet honestly, seriously don't believe they're deliberately hurting anybody. It's hard to believe, but especially Ken is so deluded, that he really thinks that I NEED fixing, and he is doing me a FAVOUR by showing me constantly how deficient I am, and trying to help me become who he believes Christ wants me to be. Really, I believe he is mentally ill. And everybody believes him when he says that I AM the one who has mental problems! It's infuriating and depressing, to say the least.

My bank account is set up in such a way that he has NO access to it. And I haven't given him the information he would need to gain access, either. So, no problem here.

I am not nearsighted, but farsighted, plus I need prism. Also, my eyes are extremely sensitive, the slightest little speck of anything that gets into my eyes drives me crazy. I have sensory issues, too. I don't think I could handle deliberately putting something like contact lenses into my eyes every day, I'd soon stop (even if I could tolerate them). It would be a waste of money.

It was either my money, or keeping the frames I have that hurt my nose more all the time. So, I chose to have the new glasses. I'll make sure to let Ken know that all my money is now used up, before I start accumulating more.

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Steve, thanks for your thoughts and for truly trying to help, I appreciate it. The weird thing is, that just about everybody thinks that Ken is this incredibly nice person. He treats people in the community well. Of course, he doesn't really let any of them close, our pastor is the only one he actually opens up to. Everybody else just gets his best impersonation of the perfect Christian.

And even the pastor and his wife are telling me now that I shouldn't tell anybody but them what's happening, because as a 'good wife', I need to make sure I don't damage his good reputation. Meaning, that his reputation, and the work he does for the church, being a 'pillar of the community' is far more important than I am. In effect, I am now asked to 'keep the family secret' for the greater good, putting a guilt trip on me! I am very upset about that, and I'm not sure what to do yet.

Ahem, sorry I hate "blackmail" but if this is what they think then they had better do something more general than marriage councelling.

This is just my 2c but I think the pastor is wimping out of the bigger issue and hoping to patch together appearances for Ken's "good reputation".

You need to make it clear that sooner or later you won't be able to put up with any of it and that good reputations be damned ... I think you are entirely correct in "putting a guilt trip on me!" and that is because the Pastor is not tackling the wider issue so he is probably subconciously trying to pass the buck.

I'm sure he is not sure how to approach this and is scared of upsetting Ken.... well tough beans ... because by not tackling this he is upsetting you far more.

I'm viewing this perhaps like a work situation... where one very gifted employee but very hard to approach is upsetting others. The manager might not like addressing this but that is a part of their job. From what you say of your community I think this is an apt comparison.

I think you need to make it plain, you only have so much strength ... it is finite and will snap and agree with the pastor that this is mainly an extension of Ken's overall attitude to people, specifically those in your community and that obviously you have the worst of it because of proximity BUT unlesss Ken is made to realise that upsetting people to get a job done is not acceptable that even if you were not there it would be transferred onto someone else....

Meanwhile keep your seperate egg baskets going!

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Hi Ursula, Hope the tensions in the home are better for you today. You said the pastor wants you to keep quiet. My concern with that is that your husband is undermining you and that is not teaching the children respect for you. The verse that comes to mind is Mathew 18:6

"but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it is better for him that a heavy millstone be hung around his neck, and that he be drowned in the depth of the sea."

I know this is a strong verse, but your husband knows better and so does your pastor.

Prayers, LL

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Ursula, it sound like you are planning very well indeed! Sorry, I did forget that you were taking a course--I think you had mentioned that you were planning to. You GO, girl!

If the pastor and his wife think that Ken's reputation is more important than the harm he is doing to his wife, then I have little respect for your pastor or his values. But that doesn't really help you, does it? Oh, well--at least I can let you know how much I respect you and your values! (a lot) :)

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Ursula, I think the pastor telling you not to talk about it to anyone else could just be an innocent reminder not to gossip about Ken to everyone. What Ken is doing is wrong, but publicizing it is wrong, too. On the other hand, if you have a friend you confide in for advice, there's nothing at all wrong with that.

That would be great if you could get into web design!!

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Hi Ursula,

I could never give advice to anyone regarding their family because I'm not there, I don't know what's going on, I'm not you. However, I can say that in my recovery from this celiac disease I've found that focusing on myself and what I need to be healthy has made all the difference.

I try to have options, other ways to deal with difficult situations, such when friends go out to restaurants with no gluten-free options and ask me to come along. I can always say "no thank you" and often have. It's no fun, but it's not the end of my life. In a way, it's the beginning because I'm saying I know who I am, what my limitations are, and that I'm not ready to compromise myself.

People can say terrible things, but they can't, in the end, make us lose ourselves. Only we can lose ourselves. It is possible to love people who aren't doing the things we wish they would.

You sound like you have a good spiritual life, and it's just times like these that that that is important.

You are who you are, they can be who they are. But they don't get to use your cutting board to cut bread. You love 'em, but if they want to use your kitchen they have to clean it up. Otherwise maybe they don't get to use it, whatever they might say about you.

I dunno. I hope I've helped a little bit. This disease makes me feel like an alien sometimes. But I try to remember that there are a lot of people out there who are really miserable and have no idea they could feel a lot better just by eating differently.

Josh.

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Ursula, it sounds like you are formatting a plan. taking the class will be a good thing for you. Make the most of meeting people and making contacts while you are there. the not telling anyone advice from the pastor is sick, sick, sick. I do urge you to contact the nearest women's shelter for advice & help.

Your husband's control of the money is not right & is just another form of abuse, you are probably so used to it that you do not realize how bad it sounds. get busy and squirrel away everything that you can. Shopping a the mall is a luxury, I do not do that, I shop resale & love the "hunt" for great bargains & better clothes than I can find at the mall. Check it out, I think you would be impressed, might take you a time or two or checking out different spots. I really urge you to check with the womens center, they have resources available to women that they do not advertise, they are strictly confidential. You are not the first woman that has gone thru this stuff & they know how to handle it.

Again keep the good thoughts going & check in here whenever you can to let us know how you are doing.

Also, just a thought, but is there any needle work that you could take up or a hobby to keep your hands busy? Then when the rest of the family is eating - you could just be doing your own thing. Taking your meals before them etc. I would just forget the whole family meal thing, who needs that criticism. Also, if you have a skill at making anything, you can sell it and add to your little stash.

I do not know about your house but if you just had a tiny little refrig to use & chest of drawers to keep the supplies in, you could make a lot of meals there, say in a corner somewhere, or a closet, an electric skillet cooks a lot of stuff, then you could take your dishes to the kitchen for washing. Of course you would only be doing this out of consideration for the rest of the family (sic), Turn all your phrases around to where it is for their benefit. early in the evening if you need a bath & a nice read in your room, just say something like, "excuse me, I will just give you two time to visit and chat with each other".

I am so thrilled you are taking that class. Keep doing God's work ;)

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Guest Robbin

:) Excellent advice, daffadilly and others. Ursula, I have been thinking about you today and I have waited until I could post with my own emotions and bias under wraps, so to speak. I have been where you are, my dear. That is not a good place to be, I know. I was emotionally abused and it escalated to more at times. I will not bore you with my experiences, but I will tell you what I have learned from them.

Number one, you are doing the right thing by saving your money away from him. Taking classes is an excellent move in the right direction, too. I applaud your courage. I know how hard it is for you to get out and interact socially. That could be the Aspergers or it could be a symptom of abuse or probably a mixture of both, I can't really speculate on you, but I was like that from abuse.

Now, as for your husband, kill the man with kindness. I know, I know. It is soooo hard, but you can do it. when he criticizes, don't answer him back in kind. Just keep busy, leave the room, read, go for a walk, whatever. Remove yourself from the situation emotionally and physically before it can escalate. If, after awhile that man doesn't change with your kindness and "turning the other cheek" test, he never will, I am afraid.

The crumbs--cover the counter with waxed paper or a paper towel to prepare your food and maybe you can flip over the cutting board and mark your side and not let them use that side? Maybe not even tell them, or as someone said, use a plate.

The glasses--I paid 500. for a rotten pair of glasses with the frames you are looking at. The 350 + reading glasses I got at the dollar store for -you guessed it-a dollar -work better for me at the computer than those expensive ones. Granted, they are not as attractive, but hey, who cares at a work situation, right?

I am so sorry your church situation is not the haven you need at this point. Maybe you could try another church some night during the week services like Weds. night service? You could be anonymous and maybe get some perspective you never dreamed of.

And your dear Susie, she sounds like she is a sensitive girl as well as beautiful. What is the pattern that may be repeated with the example she gets from this? Many abused women see their mothers being abused and the whole thing keeps going on through generations.

You show courage and strength on this forum with your insights and help for others. I know you have it in you, take it out there and above all keep faith and trust. I look at you with those little babies and I see a loving proud grandma who deserves much more than she is getting. Take care.

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Hi Ursula. I've been thinking about you today too. One of the things that really helped me was a book called The Power of a Praying Wife by Stormie Omartian. I truly believe that the prayers in that book, that I clung to like a castaway to a life preserver, is what got my husband and I to the point where we are now.

I don't know if you remember my story that I've told a zillion times here, but basically I was about ready to leave. He was being a horrible jerk, he didn't treat me with dignity, much less respect, and he wasn't showing any signs of changing. In my mind I gave him six months to get his... hmm... ACT together or I was going to get a divorce. Hey, my church has a group for divorced people. I'd much, much MUCH rather stand and have to explain myself in front of Jesus and ask His forgiveness than put up with my husband's constant, unrelenting BS for the rest of my life.

After doing the prayers in that book, my husband is a different man. Or maybe I'm a different woman. Or maybe a little bit both. Or a LOT of both.

If you don't have the book, or can't get one, I'll have to send you a couple of prayers from it. My copy is worn and battered. Partially from use, but mostly from the number of times I threw it across the room. Praying for that horrible man was the last thing I cared to do. But I kept picking it back up because I had nowhere else to turn.

One of the sections of prayer that always stuck in my head was something like this:

Lord, if there is anything that _____ should feel bad about (I can't remember the phrasing...), I pray that You convict his heart about it and reveal to him the path to healing.

I'll try and remember to find that prayer for you. If I don't, PM me and I will get it for you. (I had some glutening last week and I'm still foggy...)

I'm not saying that your situation will be the same as mine, but even if you do end up leaving, having a more cordial relationship with your ex never hurts anything... Personally, although I clung to those prayers for a long time, if he hadn't improved I would have left. No question. No question at all.

Nancy

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Thanks guys, you gave me the courage to go on again. Nantzie, thank you so much, that sounds like a great idea. I guess I'll have to get that book. But if you want to get me started by sending me those two prayers, I'd appreciate it.

Sorry, Robbin and Daffadilly and everybody else who replied, that I didn't reply to your thoughtful, compassionate posts. But I had decided to let this thread 'die', as I didnt want to keep it going forever (I can only handle so much of being the focus of attention, and then I start feeling terribly self-conscious and like wanting to move back into my nice, quiet, isolated cave, away from people). I read and appreciated everything you said.

You know, one thing that certainly isn't helpful is the fact that as I am getting older, I am also getting more autistic (and being gluten-free has not helped with that, it has only helped my tics somewhat). I find that in general, I have a harder time being around people than even a few years ago. And being forced to live with others, especially if they won't let me be who I am, is getting more difficult all the time. I feel like I want to be ALONE!

Of course, if I'd be able to have a break from people now and then, a real holiday (like being in a cabin all by myself for a couple of weeks (I'd want my computer, though, it's great company :-) , without having to interact with people other than maybe grocery shopping), that would help a whole lot to be able to function again. But I have NEVER had that break. Nobody thinks I need it.

My family thinks I need to 'get over' those feelings. They don't understand that I can't.

So, saying that, I know I've been irritable lately, too, and not easy to live with. I have NO energy for anything. And being with people, being nice, taking turns talking, not tuning people out, smiling, looking people in the eyes when talking to them (which takes a conscious effort) all takes a TON of energy for me, energy I don't have.

Really, I am not fit for marriage and have never been (but didn't know that when I got married, of course). I don't like being touched (that has gotten much worse over time), I have executive dysfunction, meaning I am incapable of keeping anything tidy, I am incapable of multi-tasking, and in situations where I am forced to do it anyway, I'll soon stop functioning due to sensory overload.

So, while my husband is a horrible husband (as was his dad and his grandfather, I just heard incredible stories of ill-treatment and simply uncaring from his aunt a few weeks ago), I am not a great person to have for a wife, and have never been. I've been a good mother, even Ken acknowledges that, even though Janet doesn't agree (she is the only one). And I have NOT abused my kids the way my mother abused me, and have broken the cycle of abuse.

Really, the simple truth is, that Ken and I have absolutely nothing in common (other than our children; sometimes I even think my Jesus and his Jesus are two totally different persons). It's hard to find anything to talk about with him, that we manage to even remotely agree on.

I don't know if things would have been different with a different man. At this point I just hate being married. I can't stand being with him, I feel angry just hearing the sound of his voice, his little annoying habits drive me nuts, and I feel like I need to get out to save my own sanity. Which I can't right now. It's a crazy situation, and I have no idea what the solution is.

And of course, other than my counselor, everybody here at home expects me to be 'normal', and the advice I get even from my pastor's wife reflects that. Which is very unhelpful and is making things worse, not better. They all mean well, but don't understand. Trying to explain how I feel, and what I need is like hitting my head against a wall, it's getting me nowhere.

Anyway, I guess by saying all that, I have started something new, which isn't going to be helpful in letting this thread 'die'. Oh well. :rolleyes:

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I know when I was stressed out, I used to want to live in a cave. Really, I used to think it would be great if I worked at home and never had to go out. Now I do work at home, and I feel like I'd like to get out more, go figure.

I think if you weren't under the gun all the time you would be able to reach some level of interaction with the outside world that would work for you, because you would always be in control of what your day would be like.

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Thanks guys, you gave me the courage to go on again. Nantzie, thank you so much, that sounds like a great idea. I guess I'll have to get that book. But if you want to get me started by sending me those two prayers, I'd appreciate it.

Sorry, Robbin and Daffadilly and everybody else who replied, that I didn't reply to your thoughtful, compassionate posts. But I had decided to let this thread 'die', as I didnt want to keep it going forever (I can only handle so much of being the focus of attention, and then I start feeling terribly self-conscious and like wanting to move back into my nice, quiet, isolated cave, away from people). I read and appreciated everything you said.

Then apologies in advance ... you realise I'm posting this as a friend and not taking the easy way and letting the thread die with you feeling like this. Also just because I don't pray doesn't mean you are not in my thoughts....

You know, one thing that certainly isn't helpful is the fact that as I am getting older, I am also getting more autistic (and being gluten-free has not helped with that, it has only helped my tics somewhat). I find that in general, I have a harder time being around people than even a few years ago. And being forced to live with others, especially if they won't let me be who I am, is getting more difficult all the time. I feel like I want to be ALONE!
I think you answer that youself ....

Of course, if I'd be able to have a break from people now and then, a real holiday (like being in a cabin all by myself for a couple of weeks (I'd want my computer, though, it's great company :-) , without having to interact with people other than maybe grocery shopping), that would help a whole lot to be able to function again. But I have NEVER had that break. Nobody thinks I need it.

Ursula how about a religious retreat where the emphasis is on self introspection and your relationship with your God? This would give you a time to recharge your batteries .... and also come to terms with some things ..???

So, saying that, I know I've been irritable lately, too, and not easy to live with. I have NO energy for anything. And being with people, being nice, taking turns talking, not tuning people out, smiling, looking people in the eyes when talking to them (which takes a conscious effort) all takes a TON of energy for me, energy I don't have.

Really, I am not fit for marriage and have never been (but didn't know that when I got married, of course). I don't like being touched (that has gotten much worse over time), I have executive dysfunction, meaning I am incapable of keeping anything tidy, I am incapable of multi-tasking, and in situations where I am forced to do it anyway, I'll soon stop functioning due to sensory overload.

Ursula please.... I can't keep anything "tidy" leastwise not in a way anyone else see's as tidy but there is far more to a marriage than keeping things tidy.

So, while my husband is a horrible husband (as was his dad and his grandfather, I just heard incredible stories of ill-treatment and simply uncaring from his aunt a few weeks ago), I am not a great person to have for a wife, and have never been. I've been a good mother, even Ken acknowledges that, even though Janet doesn't agree (she is the only one). And I have NOT abused my kids the way my mother abused me, and have broken the cycle of abuse.

Really, the simple truth is, that Ken and I have absolutely nothing in common (other than our children; sometimes I even think my Jesus and his Jesus are two totally different persons). It's hard to find anything to talk about with him, that we manage to even remotely agree on.

Sweety..... you just pointed out one thing in common.... you just chose to focus on the other parts of that statement.

I don't know if things would have been different with a different man. At this point I just hate being married. I can't stand being with him, I feel angry just hearing the sound of his voice, his little annoying habits drive me nuts, and I feel like I need to get out to save my own sanity. Which I can't right now. It's a crazy situation, and I have no idea what the solution is.

And of course, other than my counselor, everybody here at home expects me to be 'normal', and the advice I get even from my pastor's wife reflects that. Which is very unhelpful and is making things worse, not better. They all mean well, but don't understand. Trying to explain how I feel, and what I need is like hitting my head against a wall, it's getting me nowhere.

Anyway, I guess by saying all that, I have started something new, which isn't going to be helpful in letting this thread 'die'. Oh well. :rolleyes:

Ursula... I'm apologising now for being tough over this with you and I'm doing it in public because then other people who also care about you can comment.

You are blaming yourself ... your quirks and what makes you. you....

We all love you not regardless of but BECAUSE of who you are.

BUT:

You are tired and worn out by all this. I'm sure that Ken in is own special way does make efforts from time to time and that because you are in your own words

"At this point I just hate being married. I can't stand being with him, I feel angry just hearing the sound of his voice, his little annoying habits drive me nuts"

From what you have said about Ken I don't expect his efforts are very transparent .... I don't suppose they are easy to spot (especially for you) BUT I would bet he thinkls he keeps making them and that you keep rebuffing them. Well this is NORMAL in any marriage BUT you being you magnifies this. You need a break... you need to recharge and also discharge this anger that has built up over time.

Running to Europe is one way but you know full well it is asking for a one way ticket in the marriage and I know you love your children, even the abusive one deeply and completely. (Just because you don't miss people doesn't mean you do not love them ... don't let anyone tell you different)

I can't see how Ken can object to a religious retreat .... and it keeps your options more open than Germany.

I can't see your pastor and his wife having a sound reason not to support you on this ... especially given the alternative option... and Ken ... well he might not appreciate you now but maybe this would open his eyes as much as a burning bush and maybe not.... but you still have all your options.

I hope I didn't offend you with this.... but someone has to say it.... because you owe it to yourself to do everything you can and then some. When you have done everything and then some then ... you may still have a hard decision but you will make it knowing you did everything and be at peace with yourself over it.

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). I find that in general, I have a harder time being around people than even a few years ago. And being forced to live with others, especially if they won't let me be who I am, is getting more difficult all the time. I feel like I want to be ALONE!

I'd rather be ALONE than be with your family, too.

Seriously, your family is NOT a good representation of neurotypicals! I admit to being extremely judgemental here, but I wouldn't even call them a good representation of humanity! :ph34r:

Now, if you lived in our family, I'm sure we would drive you crazy, too--but it would never be because we are inconsiderate, obdurate, thoughtless, rigid, intolerant, control-freak BOOBS! (We're not.)

Well. I don't know about you, but I sure feel better now.

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Guest ~jules~

Ursula let me just say you are alot stronger than you think you are for living like this. I'm sorry your homelife is a mess right now, and I really hope things get better for you. I could not do it, the slightest tad of stress sends me into a downward spiral, I have to keep things really simple. After the way I was raised,some "real choice" relationships, and many other tradgedies I have managed to make it through. I think you need to do what you feel is right in your heart, and for your health as well. ;) Take care...

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Ursula how about a religious retreat where the emphasis is on self introspection and your relationship with your God? This would give you a time to recharge your batteries .... and also come to terms with some things ..???

Steve, I can't believe you said that. Coming from you (and knowing where you stand when it comes to religion), that must be one of the sweetest, most caring things anybody has ever said to me. You sure are a true friend. How can I be upset with you for saying what you did?

And you're so right. I don't know about a religious retreat, but I am thinking that maybe it would be possible to rent a small cabin somewhere north of us, where I can be alone for a few days, to be, to pray, to walk and be alone with God. No other people allowed. If our pastor agrees that I need to do that, I am sure Ken will agree. Because really, I am totally burned out, and need a break.

Ken HAS been trying, but he is doing all the wrong things, and they don't make me feel better. His 'love language' is works of service. So, he'll wash my car (which I do appreciate), do the dishes, wash the floor etc. And really, I notice and appreciate all that. But it doesn't make me feel loved. What makes me feel loved is 'words of affirmation' and 'receiving gifts'.

Well, even though Ken knows what makes me feel loved (we've gone through that by both reading the book 'The five love languages', and through a marriage seminar, which we did so they could help me be the wife he wanted, obviously), he NEVER gives me gifts outside Christmas and birthday, and even then he won't give me what I really want, even if I outright tell him.

I try to do stuff for him, like cooking nice meals, or getting special gifts (my specialty, of course), or organizing his 50th birthday party this year, even though having people come from far and wide and having the house 'invaded' by them was incredible stress for me. But I really hardly have the energy for living right now, never mind always 'doing' special things.

Today my chiropractor (who is also a good friend), asked me what's happening, and I told him I need to get away for a while. And he said, "Well, what's stopping you? If that is what you need to do, then go for it, you deserve a break." And he said that there are lots of places I could go to north of here, and he is right.

Alison, you really made me laugh, you're good at that. Maybe I'll come and visit you for a while! :o

Thank you Julie, I appreciate your support.

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