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JenKuz

Sub-lingual B Vitamins

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I just went gluten free a few days ago. I've been suffering for months with lethargy and sleepiness, and I'm not digesting my food very well at all at the moment (the nurse freaked out when I brought in my last stool sample...Her: Is this blood!? Me: No, I had tomato salad yesterday.... ) Vitamin pills have been doing no good.

My friend who has suffered with Crohn's for years, told me that B vitamins are one of the worst offenders in malabsorption, and I should try taking an extra supplement of them, even if they didn't digest well, it might still help with the lethargy. I found a sub-lingual form, held under the tongue and then swallowed, easy to absorb, and I feel fantastic! After only two days of these vitamins. Really, like a new person. I slept beautifully last night, and awoke fully as energetic as a hyper-driven 28 year old ought to be.

I'm going to try to find sublingual forms of other vitamins, especially the fat-soluble ones, and give them a go. I'll report back if they seem to help.


Enterolab:

Fecal Antigliadin IgA 20 (Normal Range <10 Units)

Fecal Antitissue Transglutaminase IgA 9 Units (Normal Range <10 Units)

Quantitative Microscopic Fecal Fat Score 1223 Units (Normal Range <300 Units)

Fecal Anti-Soy IgA 18 Units (Normal Range <10 Units)

Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 3,3 (Subtype 8,7)

Gastritis dx 10/24

Eosinophilia of large bowel dx 10/29

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Thanks for posting this. I've been wondering about it, and have been looking at different brands. Many are not gluten-free, so we need to be careful about that. In particular interest is the B12, as it is basically the only one we cannot get from a vegetable diet. Sublingual is ideal for B12 apparently because the usual route requires both the stomach and the liver to make B12 available to the body. So it is even more important, and would be essential when those organs aren't up to the challenge. I'm guessing we would not derive such an increase availability from other vitamins taken in this form, and a quick Google for it seems to suggest this is true.

The stomach has to make something called "intrinsic factor". From what I've read, if it doesn't you won't be getting B12 from ingesting it in the usual forms. The sublingual B12 is usually something called Cyanocobalamin, but some have methylcobalamin. Both are supposed to get absorbed directly into the bloodstream. There is apparently some debate over which is the better of the two, but as I recall the Cyanocobalamin sounded like a more complete form to me.

Glad it worked for you!


A spherical meteorite 10 km in diameter traveling at 20 km/s has the kinetic energy equal to the calories in 550,000,000,000,000,000 Twinkies.

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Thanks for posting this. I've been wondering about it, and have been looking at different brands. Many are not gluten-free, so we need to be careful about that. In particular interest is the B12, as it is basically the only one we cannot get from a vegetable diet. Sublingual is ideal for B12 apparently because the usual route requires both the stomach and the liver to make B12 available to the body. So it is even more important, and would be essential when those organs aren't up to the challenge. I'm guessing we would not derive such an increase availability from other vitamins taken in this form, and a quick Google for it seems to suggest this is true.

The stomach has to make something called "intrinsic factor". From what I've read, if it doesn't you won't be getting B12 from ingesting it in the usual forms. The sublingual B12 is usually something called Cyanocobalamin, but some have methylcobalamin. Both are supposed to get absorbed directly into the bloodstream. There is apparently some debate over which is the better of the two, but as I recall the Cyanocobalamin sounded like a more complete form to me.

Glad it worked for you!

The brand I have is Sundown. It's "guaranteed free of: yeast, wheat, gluten, milk or milk derivatives, lactose, sugar, soy and artificial coloring."

It does contain sorbitol. I don't think it's very much, though, because I'm pretty sensitive to sorbitol's negative effects, and I haven't had any from this. This one contains, well, no less than 20,000% USRDA of cyanocobalamin, along with 100% niacin, riboflavin, B-6, and 300% pantothenic acid. I'm guessing excess B-12 is exreted in the urine.

Even if other vitamins don't benefit too much from being taken sublingually, I think I can do better with liquid forms. I've tried taking pill vitamins, and they tend to, well, it's the same thing that happens to *normal* people with corn kernals, if you know what I mean. I know I'm compounding the problem by taking antacids all the time, but the heartburn is unbearable if I don't, so my stomach acids are a bit impaired along with my small bowel. Given that, liquid vitamins may be the only way for me to actually get to them.

So, if you know of any such, even if they aren't sublingual, let me know. You seem very knowledgable about them.


Enterolab:

Fecal Antigliadin IgA 20 (Normal Range <10 Units)

Fecal Antitissue Transglutaminase IgA 9 Units (Normal Range <10 Units)

Quantitative Microscopic Fecal Fat Score 1223 Units (Normal Range <300 Units)

Fecal Anti-Soy IgA 18 Units (Normal Range <10 Units)

Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 3,3 (Subtype 8,7)

Gastritis dx 10/24

Eosinophilia of large bowel dx 10/29

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I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable can report on this, but I am fairly certain that antacids can really interfere with absorption in the stomach--I'd say this is why the sublingual is helping but the pills are going through digestion intact. You should probably have your B12 levels checked, just to see how much you should actually be taking.


Diagnosed July 2004

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I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable can report on this, but I am fairly certain that antacids can really interfere with absorption in the stomach--I'd say this is why the sublingual is helping but the pills are going through digestion intact. You should probably have your B12 levels checked, just to see how much you should actually be taking.

Yeah, I know they can. I put off taking antacids regularly for *so* long. But finally I just broke down. I was in too much pain, not sleeping, it was awful.

As for getting my levels checked, it takes me weeks to get in to see any doctor, so I don't bother with getting anything checked unless I need a prescription to fix it. Sad, potentially bad for my health, but true. Student insurance is crap. You'd think we'd benefit from being at a school with such a big research hospital, right? I mean, Emory has it's hands in every major hospital in Atlanta except Grady. But it doesn't seem to help me at all to actually be a student there. It's still a six month wait for GI, six months gyno, four months derm, etc. Our student health service is fast to get into, but their lab is very small, and they only do the most basic of tests. *sigh*


Enterolab:

Fecal Antigliadin IgA 20 (Normal Range <10 Units)

Fecal Antitissue Transglutaminase IgA 9 Units (Normal Range <10 Units)

Quantitative Microscopic Fecal Fat Score 1223 Units (Normal Range <300 Units)

Fecal Anti-Soy IgA 18 Units (Normal Range <10 Units)

Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 3,3 (Subtype 8,7)

Gastritis dx 10/24

Eosinophilia of large bowel dx 10/29

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I use liquid B complex. I put 1/2 tsp in a cup of crangrape juice morning and evening. If I don't, then I don't sleep very well, and I eat like a hog. It is amazing, isn't it, what a little bit of a vitamin does for us!


Dessa

The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make His face shine upon you and be gracious to you." Numbers 6:24-25

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Well, that seems to explain it. Using antacids over time can actually destroy the stomach's ability to produce the intrinsic factor. It's called "pernicious anemia". Then your basically stuck with the supplement from then on. I have not read of anything to restore that ability, though I imagine someone someplace probably claims to have a solution. Also with low stomach acid, you won't be breaking stuff down properly, so the pills will remain longer, or never get dissolved, as you noticed.

If you get extra B12, the body can store it up for later use. So it seems extra isn't supposed to be harmful, but it may not benefit you at some point. From what I've read, the body can store it for over 20 years.

It might sound crazy, but you need a strong stomach acid to keep things right, not a weak one. Have you tried apple cider vinegar? Look that up, and you'll see people report it cures their heartburn. I don't have that problem so I cannot speak from personal experience. The articles indicate that it is important to use the right kind of vinegar - real apple cider vinegar, not flavored up or anything.


A spherical meteorite 10 km in diameter traveling at 20 km/s has the kinetic energy equal to the calories in 550,000,000,000,000,000 Twinkies.

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Well, that seems to explain it. Using antacids over time can actually destroy the stomach's ability to produce the intrinsic factor. It's called "pernicious anemia". Then your basically stuck with the supplement from then on. I have not read of anything to restore that ability, though I imagine someone someplace probably claims to have a solution. Also with low stomach acid, you won't be breaking stuff down properly, so the pills will remain longer, or never get dissolved, as you noticed.

If you get extra B12, it seems the body can store it up for later use. So it seems extra isn't supposed to be harmful, but it may not benefit you at some point. From what I've read, the body can store it for over 20 years.

It might sound crazy, but you need a strong stomach acid to keep things right, not a weak one. Have you tried apple cider vinegar? Look that up, and you'll see people report it cures their heartburn. I don't have that problem so I cannot speak from personal experience. The articles indicate that it is important to use the right kind of vinegar - real apple cider vinegar, not flavored up or anything.

That's really interesting. I've only been taking the antiacids for a couple weeks, though, and I took pepcid for two weeks about six months ago. When I was on a gluten-free diet before, I was practically living on yogurt, which has a lot of B-12, and I felt really good. Now, everything I eat makes me sick. I think the damage has gotten worse. I don't know what's causing the heartburn, in particular, but it's also gotten progressively worse since I went back on wheat three months ago.

So, I don't think I've progressed to pernicious anemia yet, at least I shouldn't think so, but I'm glad to have the warning in advance. In any case, for whatever reason, the B complex pepped me right up.

I've always felt that strong stomach acid was important for keeping harmful bacteria in check, digesting properly, etc. But this heartburn has been a serious business. It isn't normal acid indigestion. The first time it happened, I swear I thought I was collapsing a lung. If it had been a pain near my heart, I might have gone to the ER, but it happened to be right where I knew my esophagus was, so I took some pepcid complete and slept it off. The pain hung around for two days, I think it was residual, and I was hoarse for four or five days afterward. Every episode has been like this, with bouts of normal indigestion in between. I will definitely try the vinegar, cause I would love a cure that didn't involve neutralizing everything.


Enterolab:

Fecal Antigliadin IgA 20 (Normal Range <10 Units)

Fecal Antitissue Transglutaminase IgA 9 Units (Normal Range <10 Units)

Quantitative Microscopic Fecal Fat Score 1223 Units (Normal Range <300 Units)

Fecal Anti-Soy IgA 18 Units (Normal Range <10 Units)

Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 3,3 (Subtype 8,7)

Gastritis dx 10/24

Eosinophilia of large bowel dx 10/29

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I think there's a good chance the heartburn might get better the longer you're gluten free... :)

Pauliina

I sure hope so :( I'm pretty badly off. Nothing helps. I can't even go on dates anymore. It's impossible to be charming with heartburn, I've discovered. And the guy I've gone out with a couple times took me to a Malaysian restaurant last night! Cripes. And I had even mentioned to him that my stomach was awful, I'd been avoiding spicy foods, and was swearing off wheat for a while. What did the sweet boy do, but to order several spicy dishes, including one with bread, and insist that I finish "my fair share" of the dishes! I know he meant well, but I was in searing pain by the time the movie was over. I tried to refuse politely, but it was clear he was going to be offended if I didn't clean my plate. No kiss goodnight. I'm sure he was offended, but all I wanted to do was crawl onto my bed with a bottle of tums and cuddle with my puppy. I think I should swear off dating until I'm at least passably well :rolleyes:


Enterolab:

Fecal Antigliadin IgA 20 (Normal Range <10 Units)

Fecal Antitissue Transglutaminase IgA 9 Units (Normal Range <10 Units)

Quantitative Microscopic Fecal Fat Score 1223 Units (Normal Range <300 Units)

Fecal Anti-Soy IgA 18 Units (Normal Range <10 Units)

Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 3,3 (Subtype 8,7)

Gastritis dx 10/24

Eosinophilia of large bowel dx 10/29

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Wow, you really ought to see a doctor about that. It could be something more serious than just heart burn.

I mentioned it to the nurse at student health and also my GI doc, as one of the several symptoms I have. Neither of them seemed too concerned; I guess they both figured all the symptoms have the same source, and when they figure out what it is, they'll know what to do. Controlling the symptoms is all I can do until the test results from enterolab come back. If I'm gluten intolerant or celiac, then I'll know that being assiduous about wheat will help get the heartburn under control. If those are negative, then I might consider going back to the doc. But I think they're getting impatient with me. They're very understanding, but both of them are like, "hold tight till we've scoped you. Then we might have something constructive to say." In the meantime, it's just like, well, keep taking the antacids and hope for the best....


Enterolab:

Fecal Antigliadin IgA 20 (Normal Range <10 Units)

Fecal Antitissue Transglutaminase IgA 9 Units (Normal Range <10 Units)

Quantitative Microscopic Fecal Fat Score 1223 Units (Normal Range <300 Units)

Fecal Anti-Soy IgA 18 Units (Normal Range <10 Units)

Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 3,3 (Subtype 8,7)

Gastritis dx 10/24

Eosinophilia of large bowel dx 10/29

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Nature's Way, B-100 Complex pills

ingredients:

Thiamin

Riboflavin

Niacin

Vitamin B6

Folic Acid

Vitamin B12

Biotlin

Pantothenic Acid

Inositol

Choline

Gelatine

Cellulose

Magnesium sterate

Is this okay for me?


"I have failed and that is why I succeed."

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Nature's Way, B-100 Complex pills

ingredients:

Thiamin

Riboflavin

Niacin

Vitamin B6

Folic Acid

Vitamin B12

Biotlin

Pantothenic Acid

Inositol

Choline

Gelatine

Cellulose

Magnesium sterate

Is this okay for me?

That's not the true list of ingredients, so there's no way to be certain of the safety from that list. You have to look for "other ingredients" - the stuff that makes up the bulk of the product. While the sort of vitamins they use are important too, the gluten-free part is more dependent on the fillers, flavors, sweeteners, etc. I've found most companies stop short of saying gluten-free, but Freeda brand lozenges and Nature's Bounty liquid complex appear to make the claim of gluten-free. I'm sure there are others too.


A spherical meteorite 10 km in diameter traveling at 20 km/s has the kinetic energy equal to the calories in 550,000,000,000,000,000 Twinkies.

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JenKuz, I'm dealing with the student insurance at Penn State--not much better to be honest, but I've been demanding enough to get in to see the doctors I need to, even if it takes them a month. I usually try as much as possible to make appointments in person and try to charm the receptionists responsible for scheduling with chit-chat about their families, favorite hobbies, anything I can think of based on the stuff on their desk. I'd imagine that if you're having unbelievable pain and other GI issues since going back on wheat, then it's probably a good idea not to stay on it at all rather than just trying to avoid it. However, if you haven't gotten your blood work done yet and you really want to see the proof in the numbers, then you should tough it out until you do, so that you don't get a false negative. If it were me, the positive response to the gluten free diet would probably be enough for me to go completely gluten free and never look back.

As far as pernicious anemia is concerned, I would say there's no way you have it. It's an autoimmune disease that can be prompted by a number of factors, such as celiac disease, but it can not appear from a few weeks of taking antacids. I was just diagnosed with PA, and it was only after years and years of my celiac disease causing my body to have an autoimmune response to intrinsic factor--this did not show up over the course of several weeks or months but rather years.


Diagnosed July 2004

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