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Canadian Karen

Celiac In Toronto News Today

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Thanks, Jessica, it helps me so much :D . For my husband just said: 'Stef, I would like to order a magazine for you, since I can't decide on one for me.' He's so sweet. He knows I love to read new stuff and the more, if it's about celiac.

Thanks a lot!

Hugs, Stef

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Wow Stef,

Sounds like you have a real sweety there..... That was incredibly considerate....

Hope you have a wonderful Valentine's Day....

Hugs,

Karen

(who is hoping to at least get a card when hubby gets home......)

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Wow, I had never read this thread before until it just popped up. I struggled a lot with this issue this year, as I am Catholic.

The Church has always maintained that anyone with gluten intolerance be permitted to drink the Precious Blood. There is no reason why a small, separate cup of wine cannot be consecrated along with the rest.

I use the low-gluten hosts. I am particularly sensitive to gluten, and have had no problem with it. There is virtually no gluten in it at all - no more than you would get from your environment.

Btw, I know of a woman, a sensitive celiac, who is Greek Orthodox. They use actual bread in their communions. They too believe in Transubstantion btw. She has never had a reaction to receiving the bread, despite the obvious gluten content. I am not recommending people try it, but I found it quite remarkable.

OT, since the thread seemed to have gone into some theological debate over the Church herself, I would encourage anyone who disputes the validity of the Catholic Church to visit catholicconvert.com . It is a fabulous community/message board of (mostly)Catholics, Protestants, Athiests, etc. that discuss the Catholic faith. There are many, many very knowlegable people there who can answer these questions (Church authority was one big issue that arose here, for instance).

Since others freely expressed their opinions on this,I just wanted to point out, for those who say the Church is unbiblical, that Jesus established the Church, and the Church compiled the New Testament. Jesus did not give us ONLY the Bible. The numerous translations of the Bible are evidence that there need be an interpreter. The Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, and has every authority to govern it's members. After all, how many have used Scripture to justify atrocities? Certainly there is corruption, as there is in every organization with human beings! But as a Catholic, we must trust the Church's teachings with regards to matters of faith and morals. If one were firm in their Catholic faith, surely the issue of communion would not convince them to leave the Church, but rather learn the Church's position, and try to encourage change if neccessary.

I had to fight to even have the low-gluten hosts used in my parish, but I believe in the Holy Eucharist, and I would never leave the Church which has Him truly present, even if I could never actually receive Him Sacramentally. The Church does NOT teach that salvation can only be obtained through the Eucharist, but through faith in Jesus and the living out of that faith. Surely, the Eucharist is the greatest means one can obtain grace, but grace is obtained in EVERY Catholic Sacrament. Catholics also believe in actual grace, which is bestowed on EVERY PERSON. I am barely touching on these issues, but I feel an obligation to set this straight.

I am saddened to hear about people leaving the Church. I too left at one time. I feel obligated, not only in defense of my faith, but in respect and love for my neigh bor, to invite you to look beyond your past experiences with the Church, and look at the core of the faith. Look beyond the evident corruption, the misrepresentation and seek to understand WHY the Church teaches what it teaches. Most everything the Church teaches has a Biblical foundation (despite what many believe).

Anyway, sorry I got long-winded. I had a lot to respond to ;) . If you are Catholic and feel excluded, work to educate priests about this. Work at having a small cup of wine accepted for transubstantiation if you don't like the idea of the host. Make spiritual communions. Visit the Blessed Sacrament - so many graces are obtained simply by visiting Him where He is so often ignored ;) - in the Tabernacle. Encourage your parish and area parishes to have Eucharistic Exposition. Receiving communion is a great privilege, but I will remind those who are Catholic, that a great many saints were not permitted to receive communion for various reasons - some, very unJUST reasons! If one has true faith, they will persevere, and no hardship will lessen his faith in God, or the Church!

Godspeed!

-donna

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Hey Karen,

yes, he is a real sweety. Although he has his moments, where you could "slap" him. But I guess, everybody has them from time to time :P .

Hugs, Stef

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Guest BellyTimber

Thanks everyone for a most stimulating debate on this subject.

The Chicago newspaper extract celiac3270 posted in I think September about the social effects of having this - hardly ever going to restaurants and the rest of it - was particularly vivid.

I'm RC as well! But with one Protestant foot from an early age.

The elements retain the chemical composition of their "appearance" (bread and wine) after consecration. I've met several people who have experienced they are not harmed by the communion elements even though they are normally harmed by those things. However, I think it's important to respect those whose conscience guides them to hold back entirely, like me (also in other denominations, to save confusing anyone else).

It's easy for me, it's over 40 yrs since my 1st and I'm not married so I don't have to agonise about not doing the same as my other half any more.

I think it is getting on very difficult ground to retrospectively invalidate something a child is doing for his/her initiation. Mind you I thought baptism & confirmation were more important.

There are as someone pointed out, 101 good, bad and indifferent reasons for discerning one should not partake in communion or have it discerned by someone else.

Convert vicars who are married may be made priests so perhaps we could hope that after the 3rd 4th or 5th Vatican councils we will become convert vicars who are wedded to another grain!

A long time for the Waldmanns and the little girl who was keen to keep the rules, certainly.

Michael

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Update to story of Haley Pelly-Waldman of Brielle, NJ -- the 9 year old who has celiac disease and wants a gluten free communion host.

According to report in Wed 5/18/05 Star Ledger (main newspaper here in NJ), mother Elizabeth Pelly-Waldman's request was refused by Trenton Bishop, John Smith. The spokesman for Smith said the bishop is not in a position to change the rule, which already has been examined by the Vatican in recent years.

Additionally, according to this article, the mother has written twice to the Vatican and but never received a response.

a quote from the paper:

Some priests have privately offered to accept a non-gluten host, but she has declined, she said.

"We shouldn't have to sneak our bread. Our bread is just as valid as any other bread. I don't feel (sneaking) is the right message to sent to Haley (daughter with celiac disease." (said by mother Elizabeth Pelly-Waldman)

So that's the update as of 5/18/05.

If anyone wants a copy of the article I will scan it in and email it to you. Just let me know.

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In my church which is very simaler to the Apostolic church but is non-denominational, we use Grape Juice instead of wine, and I normally just skip the bread, but if I wanted to get something special, it would be easy, because my pastor is a 20 year celiac himself. I like pot-lucks as well, because then I just watch what he has, and have the same thing lol.. I just joined this church about a year ago, and am loving it. I am actually taking my pastoral trainning through them as well, and will be a certified pastor in 2008.

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The revitalization of conservatism is not necessarily a bad thing...except when it crosses common sense. Like many churches over the last several decades, the Catholic church had moved away from some ideas that had been considered mainstream Christian theology for millenia. There is, however, a big difference in taking a stand on the inerrancy of the Holy Scriptures or the diety of Christ and taking a stand on a church historical/canonical issue. Surely we must all find the balance of standing for what is true eternally and losing our souls to what is only temporal.

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Donna-

I'd have to say I agree with your statement. Some issues us, as Christians, should really spend time thinking about and theology, what we believe, can be crucial to our faith and how we choose to live out the 'every day' of our lives. However, I think sometimes we spend to much time outside the "meat" of the Gospel and little fruit can come from it. I can't help but think when we become fixated on holding the line for an issue such as this, that Christ is all the while saying--"You're missing it. My people are out there, waiting to see you live out the Gospel, and you are in here--worrying about all this..." Perhaps I'm biased :) but these are my thoughts... It's cool to be able to discuss such an issue here.

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Part of the Star Ledger article I didn't post as I didn't have enough time the other day:

This is quoted from the 5/18/05 article itself:

"It's frustrating to say the least," Pelly-Waldman said after the meeting. "I said to the bishop, 'What would Jesus do? Jesus would not deprive a child. I believe Jesus would have accomodated her'......(The bishop) said, "It's a matter of what he did do, not what he would do.'"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now this is Debmidge talking, and I have to speak my peace on this:

What would Jesus do? --- obviously the mother posed that question to the bishop and he responded by referring to the Last Supper when Jesus had used the bread and wine to explain to those with him that he was going to sacrifice himself. The church 'assumes' Christ used wheat bread (what if in 100 years we find out that it wasn't wheat based bread at all!)

Bishop Smith's response was punctuated by the digging in of his heels to maintain the tradition of using wheat in the host. There was no creative theological thinking on his part nor does the article say he'd continue this discussion with his higher ups. Jesus did not use gluten free bread - end of discussion! I can almost hear him say, "Now go away lady, the Lord is too busy for you!"

I'd like to ask him " Does this mean that transubstantiation can only occur in wheat? Is that the problem? If yes, would that then mean that God doesn't accept other breads (rice, potato, corn, etc.) ? Or, that God can only perform this miracle in wheat gluten?"

My God must be stronger than his God because my God CAN ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING! My God, the God of the bible, has been known to do things that are unexplainable to man; if my God wants to transubstantiate Himself into another type of bread He is powerful enough to do it! I, a mere mortal, would not presume to put limits on God's power. To do so, would be an act of faithlessness.

My God is not limited to transferring Himself physically into anything: didn't he, according to scriptures, become at one time, an Angel and then a human being? If He can turn into a human being, He is God enough to accept gluten free bread.

I can't believe that after all these centuries, the Catholic Church is still using Medieval thinking. No one is asking that they loosen up moral law or biblical law; just re-think Canon Law/Tradition. Now they are re-thinking Canon Law in the area of "fast-tracking" people to become saints. The office of Devil's Advocate was abolished some time ago, which according to Canon law was once needed to provide prosecution against those who were looking to "canonize" someone into sainthood. Why is it that some Canon Law/tradition can be dropped and others, that inadvertently hurt others, must stay?

Those who feel compelled to do something on this, I'd say to write to the Vatican and bypass your local Bishop as they obviously are not interested in the problems of those with celiac disease.

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Just to be certain we have our historical and Jewish legal ducks in a row, I have messaged a Jewish friend with the question: Is there a historical or legal requirement that the Passover bread be made from wheat even if a person is celiac disease? How would a Jewish celiac handle this?

After all, where do we get the instructions on Passover which are the basis for the Lord's Supper? I'll let you know the answer as soon as I get it.

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Reply from Jewish source number one is in. She consulted her rabbi. Here is his answer:

>I don't have an authentic Rabbinic answer. However, no halacha (Jewish law) is binding including fasting or breaking Shabbat observance when life may be in danger. Also, to meet the "requirement" for Pesach (Passover), one need only consume an olive-size piece of matzah for the entire holiday period. Sorry, best I can do.

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