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Nancym

Gut Article: Leaky Gut May Occur From Gluten Even In Absence Of Celiac Disease

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http://thefooddoc.blogspot.com/2007/01/lea...en-even-in.html

Snippet follows, click link for full article:

Zonulin levels are increased in celiac disease. However, chronic gluten (gliadin) exposure also affects zonulin in non-celiac intestine. The result is an increased gut permeability (or leaky gut). Just published in Gut is an article reporting abnormal claudin proteins result in patchy loss of barrier function or tight junctions (leaky gut) in active Crohn

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No doubt about it......gluten is not good.

I like dogtorj's article as well. He's a veterinarian and also celiac that has done some research.

His website is www.dogtorj.net

The article is called the Answer. Why the Plane of this Nation's Health is in a Death Spiral (or something like that) is within that article.


Andrea

Enterolab positive results only June 06:
Me HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 1 0201; HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 2 0301; Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 2,3 (subtype 2, 7)
Husband HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 1 0201; HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 2 0302; Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 2,3 (subtype 2,8)



The whole family has been soy free since February, gluten free since June 2006.

The whole family went back to a gluten diet October 2011.  We never had official testing done and I decided to give gluten a go again.  At this point I've decided to work on making some gluten free things again, though healthwise everyone seems to be fine.  The decision to add gluten back in was also made based on other things I'd read about the 2nd sequence of genes.  It is my belief that we had a gluten intolerance, but thanks to things I've learned here, I know more what to keep an eye on.  If you have a confirmed case of celiac, please don't go back to gluten, it's a lifelong lifestyle change.

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Nancy...I couldnt access the link but I think its something that has been discussed here before....about zonulin opening the gates...so to speak.

I've been thinking about this alot latey because I have severe leaky gut. Positive tTG through Enterolab and high malabsorption (913). I still have severe leaky gut after nearly 2 years gluten-free.

Recent tests.....although done through alternative methods...are showing a big problem with gluten....that my body does not like it and that it would affect multiple areas of my body if I were to consume it.

I have a fibroid that was found on ultrasound earlier last year. The tests I had last week indicated that gluten could be causing problems with fibroids. This kind of scared me and I told the woman administiring the test that I do have a fibroid. She said its good that I'm off gluten because eating wheat *may* cause my fibroid to grow. :huh:

All I know is that I had bad pain in the area where the fibroid may be when I was eating crackers that were made on shared equipment with wheat...they were not advertised gluten-free and I just took a chance. I only had the pain while eating those crackers....I guess I ate them for about a month. During that time I was going to the obgyn because the pain was worrying me.

I used to believe that gluten caused leaky gut in non-celiac individuals....I believed in this 100%.

Now I question it. :unsure:

My main question is this....

How can they know that gluten is actually *causing* the leaky gut??? So many factors can attribute to leaky gut....including genetics. Also the permeability of the gut can change from day to day....so some days it may be leakier than others.

Obviously stuff like alcohol, antibiotics and even a short term yeast overgrowth can cause the gut to become leakier...so the very first time gluten leaks into the bloodstream there will be antibodies produced by the immune system. From then on....as long as the gut is leaky someone without Celiac can get imflammation to the gut lining from consuming gluten. This is the case with *all* food intolerances and leaky gut....they continue to irritate the lining so that is not allowed to heal.

These days leaky gut occurs more frequently because of our lifestyle and all of the chemicals in our food.....so yeah...ALOT more people will be reacting to gluten because ALOT more people will have leaky gut. Since gluten so closely resembles our own body's tissue...its gonna cause more severe reactions due to the autoimmune factor associated with gluten.

I'm just not convinced that gluten is actually *causing* leaky gut....especially since leaky gut is a condtion that has become more of a modern day affliction. Gluten has been around for ages whereas leaky gut is only more recently becoming a common occurrance.

I think it is more likely that the chemicals, preservatives, prescription medications, highly processed foods, and high sugar and carb diets...not to mention lifestyle and stress....are more to blame for leaky gut. Gluten just gets a free pass into the bloodstream and lots of problems from then on.

Keep in mind that there are also bacteria, fungi, parasites and LOTS of other "invaders" crossing through the leaky gut so while gluten is an enemy at this point...there are also ALOT of *other* enemies the immune system has to deal with. A person can become quite symptomatic with leaky gut and of course gluten will most likely *always* be a trigger for symptoms and damage once the immune system is actively fighting it.

Here is a list of contributing factors for leaky gut...

*Antibiotics because they lead to the overgrowth of abnormal flora in the gastrointestinal tract (bacteria, parasites, candida, fungi)

*Chronic Stress

*Alcohol and caffeine (strong gut irritants)

*Foods and beverages contaminated by parasites like Giardia lamblia, cryptosporidium, blastocystis hominis and others

*Foods and beverages contaminated by bacteria like helicobacter pylori, klebsiella, citrobacter, pseudomonas and others

*Chemicals in fermented and processed food (dyes, preservatives, peroxidized fats)

*Enzyme deficiencies (e.g. celiac disease, lactase deficiency causing lactose intolerance)

*NSAIDS (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) like ASA, ibuprofen, indomethacin, etc.

*Prescription corticosteroids (e.g. prednisone, hydrocortisone, DepoMedrol, etc.)

*High refined carbohydrate diet (e.g. candy bars, cookies, cake, soft drinks, white bread)

*Prescription hormones like the birth control pill

*Mold and fungal mycotoxins in stored grains, fruit and refined carbohydrates

So with alot of these things being a part of our daily lives....its no wonder that the gut is particularly vulnerable. Also residing in the gut is a HUGE portion of our immune system...when that goes out of balance....health will deteriorate. I dont know that it would be possible to have leaky gut and *not* have dysbiosis to some extent.

Eating a normal diet has its consequences. Fast food, chemicals, preservatives, refined sugar....not to mention neurotoxins like MSG and Aspartame....how much of these daily assaults can our guts really handle?? All of these have increased to the point that much of our food supply contains things that are harmful to us and its nearly impossible to avoid. It has steadily increased over the years.

It makes more sense to me that gluten intolerance is a *consequence* of leaky gut rather than a cause in non-celiac individuals. When the gut is already damaged gluten becomes a contributing factor but I'm not convinced it actually started the process.

I would love to see evidence that gluten alone is causing leaky gut in non-celiac gluten sensitivity...obviously this would clear up alot of things for me.

Right now I'm not convinced it was the cause of my leaky gut...and the issue has not resolved itself with the removal of gluten. I am much less symptomatic w/out having gluten passing through my very leaky gut...but its just one of many things I need to avoid in order to not have serious neurological symptoms.

I find that MSG and Aspartame cause much more damage passing through the gut than gluten does.....by FAR. I can only speak from my own experience though.

I think more studies need to done on leaky gut to determine if gluten by itself can cause damage to the intestinal lining when someone is not genetically predisposed for Celiac Disease.


Rachel

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That is odd, it works for me. Well, the doctor's blog is here and he's got tons of stuff like this: http://thefooddoc.blogspot.com/

How can they know that gluten is actually *causing* the leaky gut??? So many factors can attribute to leaky gut....including genetics. Also the permeability of the gut can change from day to day....so some days it may be leakier than others.
I'm not a scientist but my reasoning would be thus:

1) Gliadin causes the gut to produce zonulin, they can measure the zonulin somehow.

2) Zonulin causes the TJ's to open which is the source of the leaky gut.

Now you're implying that they're saying only gliadin can do that, which isn't what they're saying at all. It sounds to me like they're looking at one specific things which is the linkage of gluten (gliadin) to leaky gut.

In fact the article goes on to say:

Altered gut flora from antibiotics, including those in provided to animals from which we get meat, milk or eggs are also likely contributing as well as our cleaner environment. This effect is becoming known as the hygiene effect that is theorized as possible cause for increasing incidence of Crohn's disease and autoimmune disorders occurring in well developed countries. Co-existing gut injury from non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAID) like ibuprofen, motrin, or advil also appears to be a risk factor. The use of acid blockers, recently reported to increase the risk of osteoporosis, may also adversely impair breakdown of food proteins and predispose to abnormal gut bacterial or yeast levels increasing the risk of gut injury resulting in the leaky gut.

I do hope you get to the bottom of your problems, Rachel! Are you at least doing better? You seemed to be for awhile.

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I do hope you get to the bottom of your problems, Rachel! Are you at least doing better? You seemed to be for awhile.

Yeah...I'm ALOT better from how I was 2 years ago....posting on the thyroid board. :)

I go to work everyday and noone can tell that I'm sick or anything but my gut is still VERY leaky and I react to nearly all foods chemicals and environmental allergens.

They suspected maybe I have a serious candida issue. They tested me and the results came back last week. My antibodies were over 8100....with normal being 0-2000. She said its the second highest results shes seen. Someone out there is worse than me! :o

So thats where I'm at. Yeast and dysbiosis is most likely keeping my gut extremely leaky and causing all these sensitivities. :(

Thanks for asking....if it wasnt for the sensitivities I think I'd feel pretty normal. Hopefully they can "fix" my leaky gut. :)

Now you're implying that they're saying only gliadin can do that, which isn't what they're saying at all. It sounds to me like they're looking at one specific things which is the linkage of gluten (gliadin) to leaky gut.

Thanks for clarifying about the article...I couldnt access it so was just going by what you had quoted.

I agree with what was mentioned in your second post.....that all these other things have a role in leaky gut as well. There is certainly a link with gluten keeping the gates open....I'm just not sure if gluten can actually open the gates to begin with....all by itself. :huh:

If the gut flora wasnt affected by all these other hazards of the modern world....do you think gluten would still be opening these gates or would the healthy gut and uncompromised immune system keep that from happening??


Rachel

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Does the presence of DH indicate that there is a leaky gut?


Diagnosed by my doctor on the basis of symptoms only (May 2005). My symptoms include:

-amenorhea (all my life)

-high prolactin levels

-major bloating ("Are you pregnant?")

-swollen ankles

-possible DH: had the rash on my elbows and scalp (gone now)

-joint pain

-childhood arthritis

-all dairy allergy

-dry skin

-fat in stool sample (no connection was made at the time...I was being tested for something else...When the doctor told me of the fat I replied by saying: "I eat alot of olive oil". DUH!!!!)

-mother is allergic to wheat

-ravenous appetite: I eat for 5 people

-light coloured stool

-pass stool 7 times a day sometimes

-hemorrhoids

-get the hiccups alot (not sure if this is related)

-some reflux

I'm sure there are more that I don't recall at the moment. SIGH.

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Does the presence of DH indicate that there is a leaky gut?

DH would be an idicator of Celiac Disease. I could be wrong but I dont think there is a connection between DH and leaky gut.


Rachel

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So maybe DH *does* have a connection with leaky gut because I just found this...

Scientists found that zonulin was elevated both in serum and in the lumen of the gut in celiac disease. They also learned by monitoring people with skin reactions to gluten called dermatitis herpetiformis, that this leaky gut/zonulin phenomenon was a part of the disease process that occurred before the flattening of the villi. They learned that the disruption caused by zonulin could be set in motion by a simple exposure to gliadin.

Apparently, zonulin keeps the gate open. I don't think they've figured out exactly why or how it does that, but this may have to do with the fact that the piece of gluten called gliadin mimics part of a molecule called calreticulin that carries a huge load of calcium. Calreticulin is known to be involved in the regulation of oxalate in plants, but any role for calreticulin at this location at the tight junction has not been characterized in animals. There also seems to be one other molecular mimic of gluten at this site in intestinal cells.

Unfortunately, we are stuck with the order in which scientific discovery is taking place because this work on zonulin and the leaky gut is brand new. Antibodies to calreticulin have been found in celiac disease, and also in a lot of other autoimmune diseases associated with a leaky gut that tend to develop alongside celiac disease. This raises several questions:

So I think that since Leaky Gut is relatively new....they dont know anything for certain. It seems that all of their studies re: zonulin center around Celiac Disease because celiac disease so far is the best model system for understanding zonulin and how it opens the gates.

These new-found mechanisms confirm why hyperoxaluria is a well known component of celiac disease. In fact, celiac disease is the main disease emphasis circling around the study of zonulin. I've put abstracts from three studies below that talk about this connection between zonulin and celiac disease, but there are only thirteen articles on zonulin in the whole of Medline so far.
If you read this whole article it seems that there are several things that may be attributing to opening the gates.....

Medical literature on the leaky gut provides useful information that may help unify the picture of how diets used in autism are addressing some issues that have been studied more carefully in celiac disease. This mini-paper will review these mechanisms that may not yet be familiar to many in the autism community.

Most people have heard of the term "leaky gut" but may not realize that this term refers to how larger molecules may get into the blood when structures called tight junctions that are there to seal the gaps between intestinal cells, have instead, opened up. This opening creates a passage that lacks the same type of regulation that happens when substances move through intestinal cells. Scientists like to call this movement of fluid and its solutes through this opening "paracellular transport". Other tissues can be leaky like this, too, like the bladder, kidney cells and even the blood brain barrier.

How does paracellular transport work?

Below you'll see a drawing of the epithelial cells that are the absorbing part of the gut. It is important to notice that these cells are very different on the food side versus the blood side where you are trying to shuttle the nutrients that come from digestion.

Think of your gut as a big hose. That hose has an outside and an inside. The picture below is a cross section, as if I cut through the hose with a knife, and we are looking at the open edge of the hose as it would be seen on the top side.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

OUTSIDE of the "hose"

This is called the blood side or serosal side

or basolateral side

------------- -------------- -------------

| | | | | |

| | | | | |

| | | | | |

| |======| |======| |

]]]]]]]]]]]]] ]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ]]]]]]]]]]]]]

This is the brush border or apical side or

"lumen" where the food is.

INSIDE of the "hose"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The big rectangles are intestinal cells, and the goods from food travel from the bottom (or food side) to the top (or blood side).

The ]]]] represents the highly absorptive side that is touching the food that is going through the intestine, and it has transporters on it that help to absorb particular things across this membrane. The membrane also excludes some things from crossing into cells. You'll hear this side called the brush border, too, because of the villi that make this side look very different. Here is a photograph of the brush border:

http://microvet.arizona.edu/Courses/MIC420...ush_border.html

The dashed line on top is the membrane that helps deliver things that were absorbed into these cells to the circulation. Nutrients move across the cell to get to this membrane that is on the blood side. Transporters within this membrane will move only certain selected things across that membrane in order to deliver them to blood.

In my drawing above, the line of ====== represents tight junctions which keep things from crossing between cells to get to the space that has access to the circulation. When this junction is closed, the nutrients HAVE to go through the cells to get absorbed, and that is a process that is regulated by the transporters on the top and bottom side working together.

Immediately below, I've put a link to someone else's cartoon of this scene, but this time, we are viewing things from the bottom side of the "hose". The point of the drawing is to show how glucose gets transported into the cell, moves across the intestinal cell, and then crosses that last membrane en route to the blood:

http://www.rpi.edu/dept/chem-eng/Biotech-E...s/bauerp/co.gif

Another system of regulation exists that has to do with nutrients taking a different route. Instead of going through cells, this time, the nutrients are going around, cells using the gaps that exist between these cells that are usually closed off by structures called tight junctions.

The substances that travel this route (called the paracellular route as opposed to the transcellular route) can be peptides from foods (like gluten or casein peptides or peptides from other foods), or non-protein molecules like oxalate. Oxalate is a compound found mainly in plants which is highly reactive and binds to calcium and other molecules.

So, when your tight junctions open up, those cells will change like this:

---------------------------------------------------------------

Blood side: serosal side: basolateral side

------------- -------------- -------------

| | | | | |

| | | | | |

| |* *| |* *| |

| | = =| |= =| |

]]]]]]]]]]]]] ]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ]]]]]]]]]]]]]

Brush border or apical side or "lumen" where

the food is.

---------------------------------------------------------------

When the gate is open, many molecules pass through those open junctions just as your dog might go through an open gate in your fence. Remember there is a flow of solute-loaded fluid moving through these open gates.

Perhaps we've had the impression that having a leaky gut means something is broken, but that is not necessarily the case. The opening of the gates is regulated, and that regulation can be called upon by systems like the immune system. Certain of the immune system's cytokines open up the "gates" in order to let cells of the immune system in the blood have access to antigens that have been in the gut. Some new work has shown that this opening and closing of the gate also has a lot to do with calcium which makes this system of gatekeeping have an unusual relationship to dietary oxalate.

What have scientists learned about this system of gatekeeping?

I've put a study at the end of this article whose authors discovered that some of this process of opening and closing the tight junctions appeared to be mediated through an interaction with calcium. This did not involve the concentration of calcium that was inside the intestinal cells, but it only involved the calcium that was outside the cell. Removing the calcium from either side of that tight junction could really change things, but changing the level of calcium inside the rectangle (representing the inside of the cell) made no difference at all.

Right next to where that gate is located on the basolateral (or blood side) are some molecules and a "sensor" that picks up calcium that is travelling in the fluid on this basolateral or blood side. I've represented that sensor as an asterisk. If there is adequate calcium at that sensor, then the leaky gut closes, just as if it had been zipped up. In fact, calcium is actually a key ingredient used to close the zipper. When there is not enough calcium present to close the gate, the gate stays open so that calcium from the food side can come in through the gap until there is enough calcium to close the gate again. In fact, at times, there are oscillations that occur as this gate opens and closes in response to calcium.

What happens if the calcium level gets low?

If after the gate opens to let calcium in, there is not enough calcium on the food side to travel through and bind the sensor, then that means there won't be enough calcium to zip up the zipper and close the gate again. The gate will stay open, and until enough calcium comes around to close the gate again, you've got a "leaky gut" that will stay leaky . This means it is important to think about all the circumstances that might cause the supply of calcium to diminish that is travelling from the lumen of the gut or what might cause the calcium on the basolateral side to get low.

What is the connection between calcium and fat maldigestion?

Scientists have figured out that calcium in the lumen can be tied up in fat when one has fat maldigestion and malabsorption. The fat left undigested in the gut binds calcium and makes something of a soap, but this doesn't provide that either the fat or the calcium will get absorbed. This also means that the calcium would fail to make it to the basolateral side when the gate was open, and that would mean the calcium wouldn't be there to interact with the molecules that govern the tight junctions by sensing that there is adequate calcium there. Scientists have done experiments to quantify how this fat effects oxalate absorption, and they also have noted that very often people with celiac disease have this very same maldigestion of fat. This offers one reason people with celiac sprue have a predictable problem with this leaky gut and a condition of excess oxalate absorption that is reflected by high levels of oxalate excretion in the urine called hyperoxaluria.

What is the connection between calcium and oxalic acid that is in the gut?

Undigested fat is not the only way to tie up that needed calcium. Calcium could also be tied up by soluble oxalate that comes from food high in oxalates that were eaten and are present on the inside of the gut.

Food is not the only source of oxalate in the gut. Nature has provided a system to help the body get rid of excess oxalate. Intestinal cells become loaded with oxalic acid when this acid is transferred into them from circulation from the basolateral or blood side, and from there, this acid is actually secreted into the gut. Why does this happen? It is nature's way of ridding the body of a compound that is highly reactive and can be damaging to organs in the body, especially after those organs have already suffered some sort of injury. Oxalates seek injured tissue because they bind to molecules that ordinarily may be hidden from them in healthy tissue.

The secretion of oxalate into the gut happens regardless of the source of those oxalates. That oxalate may have come from the diet, or from chemical or environmental exposure to precursors to oxalate (such as to glycolic acids), or from excess production of oxalates by our own cells due to vitamin deficiency, genetic defect, or some other reason. Scientists have found our bodies make excess oxalate when deficient in vitamin B6, which is a vitamin that has been under a lot of study in autism. Some people may make excess oxalate from an excess of glycine. There are also genetic defects that produce excess oxalate. If there are times when our bodies produce extra oxalates for a good purpose, it has not been discovered yet, but we will be looking for this good purpose in our oxalate project.

One factor that may determine the level of secretion of oxalate into the intestine is its concentration gradient. Oxalate will try and move from places where it is in a higher concentration to places where it is in lower concentration. An excess level of oxalate on the food side of enteric cells may hamper the secretion of oxalates from the blood side. The body may use signals like angiotensin II to step up oxalate secretion from intestinal cells, but sometimes, even though the level in blood might be higher, the secretion may be disrupted by a biochemical signal. This happened experimentally when the signal from angiotensin II was disrupted....something that might happen with an ACE inhibitor or possibly with a chelating agent. More work needs to be done here.

It makes good sense that the body sends excess oxalate to the gut, because the gut is where calcium from the diet could bind the oxalate and that would keep it from being reabsorbed. The oxalate can just stay in the stool in the form of calcium oxalate because it is only the unbound form that is readily absorbed. There are many studies about this.

How do the microbes in the gut affect oxalate absorption?

A different method of reducing oxalate absorption is provided by microbes inside the gut whose role is to eat oxalates and turn them into something else. Unfortunately, these same microbes are easily killed off by antibiotics. Quite a number of studies have found a lack of these specialized bacteria in people who develop oxalate-related health problems. Trying to address this problem, a biotech company is currently working on a probiotic/enzyme formula to "recolonize" the most capable oxalate-eating bacteria, which is oxalobacter formigenes.

The intestines might feel better when the secretion into the gut of oxalic acid is reduced, because research has shown that oxalic acid is by nature corrosive and burning to tissues. Even so, whenever the intestines lose the ability to get rid of "waste" oxalate (using this secretion coupled with binding calcium or being metabolized by oxalate-eating bacteria), then the oxalate remaining in circulation can cause someone to suffer the consequences of having higher levels of oxalic acid reaching other tissues.

What is the role of zonulin in opening up tight junctions?

A study a number of years ago found that the proteins from wheat and corn could induce a leaky gut in rats which had first been made niacin deficient. Since then, other work has found that there is a relationship between exposure to the wheat protein gliadin and the excess production of a talented disrupter of the tight junction called zonulin.

Zonulin is a physiological molecule which was discovered in 2000. Before that discovery scientists had been studying a mimic of this molecule: a toxin produced by a phage that infected a bacteria that could be infecting a human. This toxin was called Zot, and all its talents at disruption of the tight junction came from its being a mimic of zonulin. By watching what Zot did, scientists learned a whole new set of interactions that were governing paracellular transport in the gut.

Zonulin's presence (similar to lack of calcium) opens up the tight junctions between cells. Scientists found that zonulin was elevated both in serum and in the lumen of the gut in celiac disease. They also learned by monitoring people with skin reactions to gluten called dermatitis herpetiformis, that this leaky gut/zonulin phenomenon was a part of the disease process that occurred before the flattening of the villi. They learned that the disruption caused by zonulin could be set in motion by a simple exposure to gliadin.

Apparently, zonulin keeps the gate open. I don't think they've figured out exactly why or how it does that, but this may have to do with the fact that the piece of gluten called gliadin mimics part of a molecule called calreticulin that carries a huge load of calcium. Calreticulin is known to be involved in the regulation of oxalate in plants, but any role for calreticulin at this location at the tight junction has not been characterized in animals. There also seems to be one other molecular mimic of gluten at this site in intestinal cells.

Unfortunately, we are stuck with the order in which scientific discovery is taking place because this work on zonulin and the leaky gut is brand new. Antibodies to calreticulin have been found in celiac disease, and also in a lot of other autoimmune diseases associated with a leaky gut that tend to develop alongside celiac disease. This raises several questions:

-- Are the oxalates obtaining access to tissues in the body raising the level of oxidative stress and tissue damage whenever they latch to damaged tissues?

I found this part interesting...

Scientists have done experiments to quantify how this fat effects oxalate absorption, and they also have noted that very often people with celiac disease have this very same maldigestion of fat. This offers one reason people with celiac sprue have a predictable problem with this leaky gut and a condition of excess oxalate absorption that is reflected by high levels of oxalate excretion in the urine called hyperoxaluria.

So maybe maldigestion of fat is one reason for the opening of the gates?? This would make for a higher incidence of leaky gut in those who have Celiac Disease.

Interestingly, I have maldigestion of fat and a very leaky gut...but I do not have Celiac Disease. So I think leaky gut can occur in *anyone* but it is more recognized and studied in those who have Celiac. I'm sure it is not always gluten that is keeping the gates open......it cant be the case for those who have been gluten-free for a long time and still suffer leaky gut.


Rachel

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There's barriers all over the body, the intestines, the brain/blood barrier and even the skin. I remember reading that zonulin can open any of those barriers. I always figured zonulin in the skin might be responsible for DH, somehow.

I agree with what was mentioned in your second post.....that all these other things have a role in leaky gut as well. There is certainly a link with gluten keeping the gates open....I'm just not sure if gluten can actually open the gates to begin with....all by itself. huh.gif
I'm pretty sure this is already demonstrated to be true. I've read one of the articles Dr. Fasano wrote. I believe he said in 30% of people it does, and in celiacs it seems to jam it open. Interesting about that 30% number because that's the % that Dr. Fine finds (fine finds?) in randomly testing has antibodies to gluten in their gut.

And you think of all the people with mental/brain symptoms to gluten exposure and figure that gliadin might be opening that barrier.

I haven't read your entire quote above but I noticed it talked about oxalic acid and I recently read something about an intestinal bacteria that digests oxalic acid and how a lot of us are missing that bacteria due to antibiotics. I think they're testing using a specific sort of probiotic in people now that'll put it back.

Gliadin, zonulin and gut permeability: Effects on celiac and non-celiac intestinal mucosa and intestinal cell lines.

OBJECTIVE: Little is known about the interaction of gliadin with intestinal epithelial cells and the mechanism(s) through which gliadin crosses the intestinal epithelial barrier. We investigated whether gliadin has any immediate effect on zonulin release and signaling. MATERIAL AND METHODS: Both ex vivo human small intestines and intestinal cell monolayers were exposed to gliadin, and zonulin release and changes in paracellular permeability were monitored in the presence and absence of zonulin antagonism. Zonulin binding, cytoskeletal rearrangement, and zonula occludens-1 (ZO-1) redistribution were evaluated by immunofluorescence microscopy. Tight junction occludin and ZO-1 gene expression was evaluated by real-time polymerase chain reaction (PCR). RESULTS: When exposed to gliadin, zonulin receptor-positive IEC6 and Caco2 cells released zonulin in the cell medium with subsequent zonulin binding to the cell surface, rearrangement of the cell cytoskeleton, loss of occludin-ZO1 protein-protein interaction, and increased monolayer permeability. Pretreatment with the zonulin antagonist FZI/0 blocked these changes without affecting zonulin release. When exposed to luminal gliadin, intestinal biopsies from celiac patients in remission expressed a sustained luminal zonulin release and increase in intestinal permeability that was blocked by FZI/0 pretreatment. Conversely, biopsies from non-celiac patients demonstrated a limited, transient zonulin release which was paralleled by an increase in intestinal permeability that never reached the level of permeability seen in celiac disease (celiac disease) tissues. Chronic gliadin exposure caused down-regulation of both ZO-1 and occludin gene expression. CONCLUSIONS: Based on our results, we concluded that gliadin activates zonulin signaling irrespective of the genetic expression of autoimmunity, leading to increased intestinal permeability to macromolecules.

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I haven't read your entire quote above but I noticed it talked about oxalic acid and I recently read something about an intestinal bacteria that digests oxalic acid and how a lot of us are missing that bacteria due to antibiotics. I think they're testing using a specific sort of probiotic in people now that'll put it back.

Interesting...

A different method of reducing oxalate absorption is provided by microbes inside the gut whose role is to eat oxalates and turn them into something else. Unfortunately, these same microbes are easily killed off by antibiotics. Quite a number of studies have found a lack of these specialized bacteria in people who develop oxalate-related health problems. Trying to address this problem, a biotech company is currently working on a probiotic/enzyme formula to "recolonize" the most capable oxalate-eating bacteria, which is oxalobacter formigenes.

Where can I get some???!!! :o

I guess this a bacteria that is currently not available in any probiotic?? :(


Rachel

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Nancy and Rachel:

I have been reading about Leaky Gut all afternoon. Perhaps that may explain why, when tested, my white blood count was up and liver enzymes as well. My energy level just isn't what it should be. And I am still under that fog.

This is facinating stuff. You both have gained so much knowledge. Thank you for taking the time to post this information.

A light bulb moment for me!

Lisa


Lisa

Gluten Free - August 15, 2004

"Not all who wander are lost" - JRR Tolkien

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A long time ago I had read that candida and gluten are similar in structure and can mimic each other....so that candida can actually trigger the immune response to attack gluten at the same time it is producing antibodies to fight off the yeast.

I didnt believe it. <_<

Now I am curious....since I've been off gluten so long...still have leaky gut and my immune system is heavily producing antibodies against yeast.

Coeliac disease is a T-cell-mediated autoimmune disease of the small intestine that is induced by ingestion of gluten proteins from wheat, barley, or rye. We postulate that Candida albicans is a trigger in the onset of coeliac disease. The virulence factor of C albicans-hyphal wall protein 1 (HWP1)-contains aminoacid sequences that are identical or highly homologous to known coeliac disease-related alpha-gliadin and gamma-gliadin T-cell epitopes. HWP1 is a transglutaminase substrate, and is used by C albicans to adhere to the intestinal epithelium. Furthermore, tissue transglutaminase and endomysium components could become covalently linked to the yeast. Subsequently, C albicans might function as an adjuvant that stimulates antibody formation against HWP1 and gluten, and formation of autoreactive antibodies against tissue transglutaminase and endomysium.

Could this be why I have positive tTG and no Celiac Disease. :unsure:


Rachel

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Nancy and Rachel:

I have been reading about Leaky Gut all afternoon. Perhaps that may explain why, when tested, my white blood count was up and liver enzymes as well. My energy level just isn't what it should be. And I am still under that fog.

This is facinating stuff. You both have gained so much knowledge. Thank you for taking the time to post this information.

A light bulb moment for me!

Lisa

What is the high WBC connection? I have DH and high WBC consistently (not sure if still do, but did for a long time).


Diagnosed by my doctor on the basis of symptoms only (May 2005). My symptoms include:

-amenorhea (all my life)

-high prolactin levels

-major bloating ("Are you pregnant?")

-swollen ankles

-possible DH: had the rash on my elbows and scalp (gone now)

-joint pain

-childhood arthritis

-all dairy allergy

-dry skin

-fat in stool sample (no connection was made at the time...I was being tested for something else...When the doctor told me of the fat I replied by saying: "I eat alot of olive oil". DUH!!!!)

-mother is allergic to wheat

-ravenous appetite: I eat for 5 people

-light coloured stool

-pass stool 7 times a day sometimes

-hemorrhoids

-get the hiccups alot (not sure if this is related)

-some reflux

I'm sure there are more that I don't recall at the moment. SIGH.

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What is the high WBC connection? I have DH and high WBC consistently (not sure if still do, but did for a long time).

Wow, you're asking the wrong person. I am just beginning to learn.

This is the best that I know now. When your gut is porous, molecules seep out, by- passing your liver which cleanses the toxins in your system. It seeps into the blood stream and your body fights the toxins. Resulting in a high WBC. And those toxins can effect other parts of your body.

I may or not be correct. I will continue to explore this, but...... Please leave this for Nancy and Rachel.

They are so much more informed than I.


Lisa

Gluten Free - August 15, 2004

"Not all who wander are lost" - JRR Tolkien

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I'm not sure if high WBC is something directly linked to leaky gut or not. I couldnt find anything to say that it is or isnt.

The white blood cells are involved in the immune "attacks" on the various antigens passing through and into the bloodstream.

When the intestinal lining becomes further damaged, even larger substances, such as disease-causing bacteria, undigested food particles, and toxins, pass directly through the damaged cells. Again, the immune system is alarmed and antibodies and substances called cytokines are realeased. Cytokines alert white blood cells to fight the particles. This fight produces oxidants, which cause irritation and inflammation throughout the body.

I dont know if this could cause high WBC or not. As far as I know I have never had any abnormal bloodwork or high WBC. I dont think its something that can rule leaky gut in or out.

A high WBC can indicate an infection...it could be an infection contributing to leaky gut or a completely unrelated infection. High WBC can also indicate that there is imflammation somewhere in the body. I think lots of things can cause high WBC. Did they ever look for a cause in your case??


Rachel

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Rachel:

I don't know who you are addressing. But, I will answer as if:

I had the endoscopy and biopsy, both indicated celiac. I talked to a NP for a five minute follow-up. She said, yup you have Celaic. My PP, who sent me, never called and it has been a year and half. No one told me anything.

In the interim, found celiac.com. and taught myself.

Two months later, new DR. of choice, tested for celiac (two months gluten free, ah yeah, Neg.). He suggested Lexapro, as my blood test was negative. He asked ME questions about celiac.

I will follow up with my original doctor in a month or so and review my blood work. But, I will go prepared.

Yeah, a little angry here, ya prolly soo.


Lisa

Gluten Free - August 15, 2004

"Not all who wander are lost" - JRR Tolkien

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I'm not sure if high WBC is something directly linked to leaky gut or not. I couldnt find anything to say that it is or isnt.

The white blood cells are involved in the immune "attacks" on the various antigens passing through and into the bloodstream.

I dont know if this could cause high WBC or not. As far as I know I have never had any abnormal bloodwork or high WBC. I dont think its something that can rule leaky gut in or out.

A high WBC can indicate an infection...it could be an infection contributing to leaky gut or a completely unrelated infection. High WBC can also indicate that there is imflammation somewhere in the body. I think lots of things can cause high WBC. Did they ever look for a cause in your case??

HI Rachel:

First...I must say that I enjoy many of your posts....very informative.

Second...on the high WBCs...I have had them on and off since childhood. There was one particular stretch during childhood where I remember my mother crying in the doctor's office (I was very sick). I had high WBCs and docs could not figure out what was wrong with me. I was bedridden...could barely walk or lift my hands....I remember feeling very very sick. My mother's english was not so good at the time, so she is still unclear about what was happening to me, but she does say she thinks that I had rheumatism. I remember not being able to walk or lift my hands.....I had lost control over my own limbs. I did not go to school during this time and I remember asking my mother if I was dying. Come to think of it...much of what I experienced was like someone who has MS...or perhaps a form of gluten ataxia in a child???? I don't know...it's a mystery.

I think I'll see if I can find that doctor to get the reports....might be interesting. My mother does remember clearly that I had extremely high white blood cells.

This celiac stuff can be one huge puzzle, can't it? I wonder if I'll ever connect all of the dots, but it certainly is interesting.


Diagnosed by my doctor on the basis of symptoms only (May 2005). My symptoms include:

-amenorhea (all my life)

-high prolactin levels

-major bloating ("Are you pregnant?")

-swollen ankles

-possible DH: had the rash on my elbows and scalp (gone now)

-joint pain

-childhood arthritis

-all dairy allergy

-dry skin

-fat in stool sample (no connection was made at the time...I was being tested for something else...When the doctor told me of the fat I replied by saying: "I eat alot of olive oil". DUH!!!!)

-mother is allergic to wheat

-ravenous appetite: I eat for 5 people

-light coloured stool

-pass stool 7 times a day sometimes

-hemorrhoids

-get the hiccups alot (not sure if this is related)

-some reflux

I'm sure there are more that I don't recall at the moment. SIGH.

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HI Rachel:

First...I must say that I enjoy many of your posts....very informative.

Thanks Eliza.....I'm certainly no expert but I like brainstorming and trying to the put the pieces together. :)

If you had Celiac since childhood that could have been the cause of the high WBC count. It could have been due to the imflammation occurring in your gut and possibly other areas. Could also have been an infection of some kind. Did you have symptoms of Celiac since childhood...that resolved after diagnosis??

If you havent had bloodwork in awhile maybe you can get it rechecked and see if the WBC are normal now. If they are still high and you still experience symptoms it could be something like leaky gut continuing to cause a heightened response from the immune system and imflammation can be a result of other food intolerance or toxic overload.


Rachel

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Thanks Eliza.....I'm certainly no expert but I like brainstorming and trying to the put the pieces together. :)

If you had Celiac since childhood that could have been the cause of the high WBC count. It could have been due to the imflammation occurring in your gut and possibly other areas. Could also have been an infection of some kind. Did you have symptoms of Celiac since childhood...that resolved after diagnosis??

If you havent had bloodwork in awhile maybe you can get it rechecked and see if the WBC are normal now. If they are still high and you still experience symptoms it could be something like leaky gut continuing to cause a heightened response from the immune system and imflammation can be a result of other food intolerance or toxic overload.

As a child I had many symptoms of celiac, but unfortunately was not diagnosed until age 30. :(

I've been doing some reading and have learned that there is a link between celiac and rheumatoid arthritis (according to my mother, I had this as a child....I remember it!!!). I guess I'm genetically inferior...haha.... This rheumatoid arthritis bit kind of scares me, but the causal arrow and links to celiac are not clear. Researchers only know that many with Rheumatoid Arthritis also have celiac....how they are connected is not clear.

Last time I had blood work done my WBCs had finally gone down. Not sure if this is due to eliminating gluten. The prolactins were still elevated though. So many puzzle pieces. I should have blood analysed again.

I have to admit that I'm not always careful with the gluten free diet. I cheat knowingly sometimes (not always!!!), but for the most part I'm good. But when I remember the things it has done to me, it's probably a stupid thing to do (ie. amenorrhea, diarrhea etc). The rheumatism link (even if not clear) should also be enough to make me more diligent. Oh....and I also had what my doctor is certain was DH. I guess it does mean that immune system is/was in overdrive. Not sure if this means that I likely have a leaky gut too.

I'm tired so the above may not make sense!


Diagnosed by my doctor on the basis of symptoms only (May 2005). My symptoms include:

-amenorhea (all my life)

-high prolactin levels

-major bloating ("Are you pregnant?")

-swollen ankles

-possible DH: had the rash on my elbows and scalp (gone now)

-joint pain

-childhood arthritis

-all dairy allergy

-dry skin

-fat in stool sample (no connection was made at the time...I was being tested for something else...When the doctor told me of the fat I replied by saying: "I eat alot of olive oil". DUH!!!!)

-mother is allergic to wheat

-ravenous appetite: I eat for 5 people

-light coloured stool

-pass stool 7 times a day sometimes

-hemorrhoids

-get the hiccups alot (not sure if this is related)

-some reflux

I'm sure there are more that I don't recall at the moment. SIGH.

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Every autoimmune disease seems to have a link with celiac, i.e. there are more people with autoimmune disease that also have celiac. I think the connection is the leaky gut. The pathogens leak out of your gut and your body goes nuts trying to kill them, but unfortunately some of these pathogens look like human proteins, so the body turns on itself. For instance, the disease I have there is a theory that a gene call HLAB27 that secretes a protein, this protein looks similar to the bacteria klebsiella pneumonia (sp?). So the thought is the bacteria escapes from the gut into the blood stream and starts a autoimmune attack going that attacks the stuff created when your body repairs tendons.

A lot of the sufferers of this disease go on a no starch diet to starve out the KP, which lives on undigested starches you consume. It seems to work for some of them.

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As a child I had many symptoms of celiac, but unfortunately was not diagnosed until age 30. :(

I've been doing some reading and have learned that there is a link between celiac and rheumatoid arthritis (according to my mother, I had this as a child....I remember it!!!). I guess I'm genetically inferior...haha.... This rheumatoid arthritis bit kind of scares me, but the causal arrow and links to celiac are not clear. Researchers only know that many with Rheumatoid Arthritis also have celiac....how they are connected is not clear.

Last time I had blood work done my WBCs had finally gone down. Not sure if this is due to eliminating gluten. The prolactins were still elevated though. So many puzzle pieces. I should have blood analysed again.

I have to admit that I'm not always careful with the gluten free diet. I cheat knowingly sometimes (not always!!!), but for the most part I'm good. But when I remember the things it has done to me, it's probably a stupid thing to do (ie. amenorrhea, diarrhea etc). The rheumatism link (even if not clear) should also be enough to make me more diligent. Oh....and I also had what my doctor is certain was DH. I guess it does mean that immune system is/was in overdrive. Not sure if this means that I likely have a leaky gut too.

I'm tired so the above may not make sense!

I wouldn't be surprised if arthritis is in fact linked to celiac. I had arthritis as a child, I am not sure if it was reumathoid [is that the one that leaves 'scars'?] I know my joints and bones ached a lot when I was a kid, they still do but I really haven't been able to have that checked for the past 6 -7 years. I still haven't been diagnosed with celiac but I have a lot of problems with gluten, a lot of nausea and then also vomiting, diahrea, etc.

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