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Mtndog

Anyone Seen Dannon Commercial?

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I was breastfed till I was about 2 y/o. My mom didn't intoduce wheat until I was about 1.5, since my family has allot of alleriges. I know I had celiac by the time I was 2.5.

As for the corn syrup, they put it in formula even now. They have to make it "taste good" for babies or they won't drink it. It is one of the major ingredients. Here is one of the lists of ingredients for formula.

INGREDIENTS

Nonfat Milk, Lactose, Corn Syrup Solids, Whey Protein Concentrate, Palm Oil or Palm Olein, Coconut Oil, High Oleic (Safflower or Sunflower) Oil, Soybean Oil Less than 2%: Crypthecodinium Cohnii Oil (Docosahexaenoic Acid), Mixed Tocopherol Concentrate, Monoglycerides, Mortierella Alpina Oil (Arachidonic Acid), Soybean Lecithin, Taurine

The problem is most women think breast feeding is gross. They associate it with "hippies". It is natural, people don't freak out when a cat nurses her kittens, etc. In the US people have been brainwashed into believeing it isn't good for the baby. Only in recent years, has the perspective started to change. Just my 2 cents.

-Laurie

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The problem is most women think breast feeding is gross. They associate it with "hippies". It is natural, people don't freak out when a cat nurses her kittens, etc. In the US people have been brainwashed into believeing it isn't good for the baby. Only in recent years, has the perspective started to change. Just my 2 cents.

-Laurie

That blows my mind...I think it's the most beautiful, natural thing!

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To some people it is the most beautiful and natural thing and to some it isn't. I did not breast feed my kids, I was very uncomfortable about it all. I do not think anyone should be made to feel bad about their choices. When I think about it, none of my grandkids were breast fed.

I was born in 55 and we were given evaporated milk with karo syrup in it--forumla's back then were probably very new and expensive and most people probably did not use them. As sick as I was when my babies were babies, I could not have nourished them properly anyways.

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I won't be able to breast feed either due to medical issues. Hmmmm...what's an alternative to formula?

Donated, pasteurized mother's milk from a human milk bank.

I highly recommend that those women who have an ample supply are able to pump to donate milk. It can be a lifesaver for premies or health-compromised newborns, especially if their mothers are unable to produce enough milk, and they can't tolerate formula. If you can't donate milk, then donate money to help keep the few milk banks that are available up and running.

When my son was born, he lost quite a bit of weight before my milk finally came in (due to cesarean section). I was very concerned about exposing him to allergens through formula, so we were able to use some milk from the local milk bank to supplement before we were released from hospital. A the 5 day mark, my milk was in (thankfully!) and was in ample supply. :)

Michelle

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The problem is most women think breast feeding is gross. They associate it with "hippies". It is natural, people don't freak out when a cat nurses her kittens, etc. In the US people have been brainwashed into believeing it isn't good for the baby. Only in recent years, has the perspective started to change. Just my 2 cents.

-Laurie

That is really sad. If someone thinks that breastfeeding is "gross" then what about birth? How in the world could a woman get through birthing a baby only to get grossed out about breastfeeding? Or is this why primary cesarean section by choice is allowed in North America? To keep birth clean? Hmmm...gotta keep everything as clean as possible...next we'll be finding a way of avoiding sex too. Gross!!! :rolleyes:

Michelle

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I wanted to reply to original question/observation...

Yes the intestinal tract is lined with hundreds of lymph nodes and immune system has to be prominent in that area becasue that is where foreign proteins enter the body on a daily basis, when we eat, when we swallow.

The immune system is throughout the body - in the spleen, liver, bone marrow and thymus gland too.

I believe that the trigger for an autoimmune issue can be environmental, chemical, viral or bacterial simply because each one of these things would stimulate the immune system.

sandy

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Guest AutumnE
Donated, pasteurized mother's milk from a human milk bank.

I highly recommend that those women who have an ample supply are able to pump to donate milk. It can be a lifesaver for premies or health-compromised newborns, especially if their mothers are unable to produce enough milk, and they can't tolerate formula. If you can't donate milk, then donate money to help keep the few milk banks that are available up and running.

When my son was born, he lost quite a bit of weight before my milk finally came in (due to cesarean section). I was very concerned about exposing him to allergens through formula, so we were able to use some milk from the local milk bank to supplement before we were released from hospital. A the 5 day mark, my milk was in (thankfully!) and was in ample supply. :)

Michelle

My only concern would be with this is aids, Aids can take up to a year to show up as antibodies which is the only way it is tested.

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Guest AutumnE

Michelle, not picking on ya honest ;) but I know with my csection it was not allowed by choice. I had a huge baby at 37 weeks, low water, on pitocin for 4 days, water broke and her heart decelled (spelling) and 14 pages of reasons why I needed to have her then and they still had to appeal after she was born. I cant imagine it being different for others if insurance pays for it since it costs so much more to have a ceasarean. My perinatalogist and my ob/gyn knew that she was too big for my pelvis and figured we would have problems. I only dilated to 1 cm when my water broke even after 4 days of pitocin. She was still at -3 station even with my water gone, her head was too big to fit.

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I wanted to ask about the milk bank thing. How would u get hooked up with one of them? I'm planning to do all I can to breastfeed, if I have extra, I'd be glad to help.

I do think formula serves a purpose.. My best friend had a kid almost 2 years ago. Due to some hormonal thing (dx'd by a doc, but I don't know specifics), she didn't even go into labor on her own. Her milk never came in. She breast fed for over a week, he baby was losing weight really badly. Nothing came with the pump. When she went to formula, she never became engorged. I felt bad for her, she wanted to breastfeed so badly, and her doc made her feel inadequate for it!

But when I mentioned to my sis that I'm planning on BF, she freaked out! Like there was some reason I was wrong for wanting that! "Why don't u just bottle feed, everyone does it", "you'll never get any sleep, u'll be in pain" etc. Whatever. I guess I'll just have to get help/support elsewhere...

You guys rock! I think I'll be asking TONS of BF questions when the time comes!

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Honestly, bottle feeding is more of a pain than breast feeding. You have to get up in the middle of the night heat a bottle and sit there and feed them. Plus washing and sterilizing the bottles. Mixing the formula and lets not forget the cost. As for breast feeding, pick the kid hop back into bed, tuck a pillow or you arm under there head and go back to sleep.

My sister bottle fed her kids. That was a nightmare. They were allergic to all the formulas and she ended up having to give them goat milk. They constantly threw that up also. Whenever I babysat them, they got about 3 baths. They smelled so bad from it. Plus never mind the diaper part, it was like something crawled in there and died.

-Laurie

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My only concern would be with this is aids, Aids can take up to a year to show up as antibodies which is the only way it is tested.

The same tests that are done for blood donation are done for milk donation, thus only donors who test negative (fore many tests including HIV) are accepted. In addition, women typically have HIV tests done during pregnancy, so there would likely be records from those tests as well.

Michelle

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Michelle, not picking on ya honest ;) but I know with my csection it was not allowed by choice. I had a huge baby at 37 weeks, low water, on pitocin for 4 days, water broke and her heart decelled (spelling) and 14 pages of reasons why I needed to have her then and they still had to appeal after she was born. I cant imagine it being different for others if insurance pays for it since it costs so much more to have a ceasarean. My perinatalogist and my ob/gyn knew that she was too big for my pelvis and figured we would have problems. I only dilated to 1 cm when my water broke even after 4 days of pitocin. She was still at -3 station even with my water gone, her head was too big to fit.

I'm not talking about necessary c-sections. And I won't argue the necessity of anyone's cesarean section, because I wasn't there, and I don't know the full story. I've had two (unwanted) c-sections that, looking back at my healthy pregnancies, details of my labour & birth records, and perfectly healthy babies, ended up being very much unnecessary. I went on to have a third very healthy baby (almost 10lbs) with a natural, drug-free labour and birth.

I am talking about those women who choose to have a primary c-section for non-medical reasons. It happens way more often than you think, and contributes to the sky-rocketing c-section rate. Unfortunately, those choices are often made in the absense of true informed consent (where the women has not been given full information on the risks of major abdominal surgery and potential health problems for baby...which includes delayed lactation and a potential struggle to establish breastfeeding), so the doctors are very much a party to this. Even the insurance companies can encourage the surgery, because sometimes it is viewed as the "safer" choice in terms of potential malpractice suits.

Finally, there is an alarming trend of unnecessary c-sections happening North America wide...whether it's a doctor who doesn't want to wait for a long labour, or a labour and birth that have been medically mismanaged causing the need for a c-section, or a dr that simply believes that surgical birth is always the safer choice.

Michelle

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I wanted to ask about the milk bank thing. How would u get hooked up with one of them? I'm planning to do all I can to breastfeed, if I have extra, I'd be glad to help.

Check with The Human Milk Banking Association of North America: http://www.hmbana.org/ From there you can find out details, including locations. In Canada, there is a Milk Bank at the BC Women's Hospital in Vancouver.

I do think formula serves a purpose.. My best friend had a kid almost 2 years ago. Due to some hormonal thing (dx'd by a doc, but I don't know specifics), she didn't even go into labor on her own. Her milk never came in. She breast fed for over a week, he baby was losing weight really badly. Nothing came with the pump. When she went to formula, she never became engorged. I felt bad for her, she wanted to breastfeed so badly, and her doc made her feel inadequate for it!

But when I mentioned to my sis that I'm planning on BF, she freaked out! Like there was some reason I was wrong for wanting that! "Why don't u just bottle feed, everyone does it", "you'll never get any sleep, u'll be in pain" etc. Whatever. I guess I'll just have to get help/support elsewhere...

You guys rock! I think I'll be asking TONS of BF questions when the time comes!

First, I'd argue that the immunilogical benefits of breastfeeding make it well worth the effort. Breastmilk, especially colostrum, is essential for a infant's immature gut...it helps baby's system to develop the correct balance of beneficial bacteria necessary for proper GI functioning and health.

I'd also argue you'd get more sleep with breastfeeding. You don't even have to get out of bed. I nursed all my babies in bed with me, and it really helped keep me from losing too much sleep...and helped keep my sanity. ;) Contact La Leche League for good support. It's a good idea to contact them during pregnancy to prepare well before the birth.

Michelle

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To some people it is the most beautiful and natural thing and to some it isn't. I did not breast feed my kids, I was very uncomfortable about it all. I do not think anyone should be made to feel bad about their choices. When I think about it, none of my grandkids were breast fed.

I was born in 55 and we were given evaporated milk with karo syrup in it--forumla's back then were probably very new and expensive and most people probably did not use them. As sick as I was when my babies were babies, I could not have nourished them properly anyways.

I think the problem is that it IS a choice--and I don't think it ought to be, any more than smoking when pregnant, or having breast augmentation at age 16.

Clearly, there are always going to be women who legitimately NEED formula, for all kinds of reasons. But given all that we know today, I don't think it should be presented as a legitimate FIRST choice. If you give birth to a baby, and are planning on keeping it, then breastfeeding should be part of the package that you expect.

Now, that opens all kinds of cans of worms here: our society does not support breastfeeding. Employers don't give pumping breaks, people complain if you nurse in public, even if you are totally covered up, and like several people said, a lot of people think it's somehow disgusting (though they seem to think it's perfectly fine to feed your baby something out of a can poured into a bottle and attached to a rubber imitation of--Mom's breast! They also think it's fine for babies and even toddlers to go around sucking on another rubber imitation of Mom's breast, all day long. :blink: )

Look at all the moms who think that they are actually getting more sleep by giving formula. All that is happening is that there are more babies who are unattached to their mothers--who still have to get up in the middle of the night to feed their babies! Only because they are not sleeping "in sync" with their babies, they are on different sleep cycles, and their sleep patterns are far more disturbed.

So, Deb, you shouldn't feel at all guilty for your choices because society decreed that those choices were just fine; heck, the formula manufacturers pushed VERY hard to make everyone think that formula was actually preferable! And, obviously, they succeeded. And they've been at this a long time--commercial formulas have been in common use for well over 100 years, at least, in the US. So, no, they were not new and expensive in the 50's.

Back in the 50's, the doctors were telling moms that formulas were better (as they were instructed to by the reps from the formula industry, pretty much like the pharm industry today), they were given free samples in the hospital (as I was 5 years ago)--what a way to ruin your milk supply before you've even started! And when my mother insisted that she wanted to nurse my older brother, her doctor gave her very specific instructions: don't feed the baby more than every 4 hours. That's a formula schedule, so, no surprise, my brother was screaming his head off with hunger until she switched to formula because the doctor said she didn't have enough milk. Of course she didn't have enough milk--you gotta nurse every 30-90 minutes those first few weeks in order to MAKE enough milk.

No wonder EVERYBODY thought that formula was better.

But, today, we know better. No matter how much the formula companies want to pretend that their formulas are equivalent to breast milk, they're not even close. And they never will be. Secretory IgA, white blood cells, the specific kinds of fats and proteins--there are still over 100 substances in breastmilk that are NOT in formula. And babies' bodies are not designed to process anything else but breastmilk! (I'll say it again, though--there will always be mothers who have all kinds of totally legitimate reasons to not be able to breastfeed, and for them we are lucky to have formula.)

But it should not be a casual choice. A mom should not be able so say, "Ewww, breastfeeding is gross, I think I'll do formula." There are far too many health risks down the line, for child AND mother, for that to be a casual option.

The big problem here, is that is not possible to legislate who has a legitimate reason to need formula.

So the best we can do is try to make it part of our culture that formula is not a reasonable choice unless medically necessary. And then, we can't point accusing fingers to those for whom formula is medically necessary.

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You're definitely right about the workplace. What's sad is my office is 90% women and we have absolutely no where to go to pump. My boss hung black construction paper up in the windows of a conference room so she could pump while she froze to death in the room we call the freezer. And she had to take the paper down everytime, b/c HR wouldn't allow it to stay up. How sad is that?

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You're definitely right about the workplace. What's sad is my office is 90% women and we have absolutely no where to go to pump. My boss hung black construction paper up in the windows of a conference room so she could pump while she froze to death in the room we call the freezer. And she had to take the paper down everytime, b/c HR wouldn't allow it to stay up. How sad is that?

It certainly doesn't help that so many women in the US have no choice but to return to work soon after birth either...making pumping at work a necessity if breastfeeding is to be successful.

In Canada, we have the choice to take a total of 1 year of materity and parental leave, with employment insurance benefits (I think the benefit is around 40-50% of salary/wages), and the parental leave can be divided between mother and father in the way that best suits them. Some employers also offer a top up of benefits for those on leave (my workplace offered a top up to 90% of my wage, provided I returned to work for so many weeks after my leave was up.)

To have this leave can be instrumental in giving mother & baby time to bond well and develop a good breastfeeding relationship. If that mother is financially able to take the full leave, then that gives a year for breastfeeding without having to pump at work.

Michelle

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Ah, now it's starting to make sense.

Human milk, unlike formula--ANY formula--contains secretory IgA.

I read that 84% of diagnosed celiacs were either not breastfed at all or breastfed for only 2 months or less. The rate was similar to people diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis.

And women still think that giving a baby formula is an adequate choice???!???!

(Of course, this is no consolation for those 16% who breastfed their babies, and their babies STILL had celiac or RA, except to think that things could only have been worse on formula.)

My mom & mom in law both say that during the 1940-50's era they were told as new mothers that formula was better than breast milk. They were discouraged to breast feed. During the 1960's when the "hippies" started breastfeeding again, the "establishment" was aghast that these young women were resorting back to the "old days", etc. It has had this stigma ever since.

As a woman my only problem with breastfeeding in public would be that I wouldn't want my husband or son to see exposed breasts so covering up of some sort is prefered. Yes, I am puritanical in some ways, I'll admit it. I think women going back to work so quickly after giving birth is conflicting with traditional workplaces and some sort of compromise should be done.

I remember the first time as an adult 15 years ago I was unaware that a woman in my exercise class was breastfeeding in the corner of the room, it didn't occur to me that she was doing this, and I was actually staring at her with a puzzled look on my face.

She must have misconstrued my look to be one of aghast but no, I just couldn't figure out what the heck she had hidden under her shirt!

I didn't realize she was breast feeding at that very moment, I thought she was getting weird sitting on floor in corner holding something under her shirt. When I realized what was going on I started to laugh, especially laugh in relief that she wasn't getting strange. In that case since we were all women in the room it would not have mattered to me if she breastfed more openly.

Back to the yogurt product, I wish they were not only gluten-free but lactose free. As a non celiac I cannot handle lactose at any level and even with lactose pills yogurt, sour cream, cream cheese, cottage cheese goes right thru me. Hubby would love to have fruited yogurt again too (gluten issues); he's not big on sour cream and cottage cheese....

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Guest AutumnE
The same tests that are done for blood donation are done for milk donation, thus only donors who test negative (fore many tests including HIV) are accepted. In addition, women typically have HIV tests done during pregnancy, so there would likely be records from those tests as well.

Michelle

Yes its the antibodies that are tested and it can take up to a year after exposure to show up in the testing but you can still transfer it in the meantime. For blood donation yes I can see it because its critical to life. Breastmilk is not, You can use alimentum powder which should be fine for most since it contains no corn, soy, or milk in it. Im all for breastfeeding but not when Im taking a chance with someone else's possible diseases that could be transferred to my healthy baby. I know other moms who do it though, my aunt did for years but I wouldnt do it personally.

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Yes its the antibodies that are tested and it can take up to a year after exposure to show up in the testing but you can still transfer it in the meantime. For blood donation yes I can see it because its critical to life. Breastmilk is not, You can use alimentum powder which should be fine for most since it contains no corn, soy, or milk in it. Im all for breastfeeding but not when Im taking a chance with someone else's possible diseases that could be transferred to my healthy baby. I know other moms who do it though, my aunt did for years but I wouldnt do it personally.

You've got to make a decision for yourself. Formula (ABM or atificial baby milk) feeding is not without it's own risks: http://www.breastfeedingtaskforla.org/ABMRisks.htm Not to mention powdered ABM can be contaminated with bacteria and pathogens during manufacture: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/.../full/110/4/833

Personally, I don't feel that ABM is a "fine" choice, because it is inferior in many ways to human milk. And when it comes to the health of a seriously ill infant, human milk cannot be replaced...that's where milk banks provide an essential service.

Michelle

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As a woman my only problem with breastfeeding in public would be that I wouldn't want my husband or son to see exposed breasts so covering up of some sort is prefered. Yes, I am puritanical in some ways, I'll admit it. I think women going back to work so quickly after giving birth is conflicting with traditional workplaces and some sort of compromise should be done.

I remember the first time as an adult 15 years ago I was unaware that a woman in my exercise class was breastfeeding in the corner of the room, it didn't occur to me that she was doing this, and I was actually staring at her with a puzzled look on my face.

She must have misconstrued my look to be one of aghast but no, I just couldn't figure out what the heck she had hidden under her shirt!

I didn't realize she was breast feeding at that very moment, I thought she was getting weird sitting on floor in corner holding something under her shirt. When I realized what was going on I started to laugh, especially laugh in relief that she wasn't getting strange. In that case since we were all women in the room it would not have mattered to me if she breastfed more openly.

Just as with your experience in exercise class, you probably wouldn't know that a woman was breastfeeding. I rarely covered up with a blanket, but there was no way you would have seen anything but a baby laying across my lap. It's pretty hard to exposure yourself, unless you're trying to.

Personally, I'd like my kids to see breastfeeding happening in public. It normalizes it, and will increase the odds that they will ensure their own children are breastfed when the time comes.

Michelle

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I was a formula-fed baby. :(

And guess who was breast fed.

Just great. First I find out I'm 1 in 130 that has Celiacs, then I find out I'm in the 16% who were breast fed. Story of my life ;)

No wonder my doctor kept telling me "you're a weird case" LOL

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Personally, I'd like my kids to see breastfeeding happening in public. It normalizes it, and will increase the odds that they will ensure their own children are breastfed when the time comes.

Michelle

Heck, I'd say there's much less actual breast exposure when a woman nurses a baby than you'd see in any blue jeans or perfume ad!

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