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Wow, this thread got into some pretty interesting tangents. lol

Bottom line: As a collective race we are always learning and growing. The first time man ate a tomato, he was going out on a limb: was it going to kill him (as other plants killed members of his "tribe"), or was it going to nourish him? He was lucky.

Sure, there are corporate cover-ups generated by fiscal drive, but most things, like the consumption of milk products, are not new. Generations have flourished "on the cow". Perhaps our increasingly toxic environment has more to do with current food intolerances than the foods themselves. Perhaps the levels of stress we live with does too (although I can't imagine more stress than living the unsure life of a few hundred years ago.)

So learning and sharing is a good thing. That's the beauty of the internet and folks like us who are willing to share our knowledge. It does pay, however, to be cautious with information. It's important, IMHO, to throroughly research anything before jumping on the bandwagon.

Thanks, again, for the lively and informative posts.

Wishing each of you success on your wellness journies!

Nama

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Just out of curiosity, Jestgar, how did YOU know that it is a neurotoxin?

I know because I pay attention. Since chemicals are something that interest me, I listen when they are mentioned on the news. I think everyone has personal filters and they take in what's important to them. There was that whole milk/calcium thing on this thread and none of it made sense to me. This weekend I realized that since I never liked milk, I probably have never bothered to pay attention to anything about it.

I don't research things on the internet unless I need more information. I have access to the same media you all do (maybe less, since I don't have cable or dish TV), but only pay attention to what's important to me.

I couldn't tell you anything about sports, schools, childhood vaccines, the latest celebrity baby adoption deal or new car models.

I can tell you that aspartame is worse for you than nutrisweet, that brown eggs aren't more healthy than white, that smoking actually causes more cardiovascular problems than pulmonary problems, and that they have never shown that people can get mad cow disease form eating sick beef. (Okay, I had to actually research that, but it is true.)

Look at HawkFires' last post. Nitrates are HORRIBLE for you. This was made public years ago, but most people don't care, they'd rather have their hot dogs.

Remember the connection between cooking in aluminum pots and Alzheimer's? How about Teflon and cancer? Outgassing of materials in new construction?

And I would still argue that most people don't know about these things because they don't care to know. How many parents have you seen stuffing french fries into a 1-year-olds mouth? Or giving them soda? or kool-aid? Are these the same parents that tell there kids to take their vitamins because our foods have less natural levels of vitamins than they used to?

Accepting personal responsibility for your choices is something I get pretty intense about. Yes, we all took the easy route when it came to our eating habits - until we knew better. Now we are all learning to take better care of ourselves, but I don't think it's entirely fair to say "oh, I was misled". I didn't know any better at the time, but I also accept that I didn't really want to. It was easier.

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I can tell you that aspartame is worse for you than nutrisweet, (snip)

Nutrasweet is a brand name of aspartame...do you mean to say Splenda/sucralose is better than aspartame?

Michelle

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I know because I pay attention. Since chemicals are something that interest me, I listen when they are mentioned on the news. I think everyone has personal filters and they take in what's important to them.

I agree about everyone having filters and taking in only what interests them. I watch the news and I try to keep up with the events of the world...although politics isnt my thing at all. :ph34r:

I didnt know one iota about any of this stuff prior to getting sick....it could have been that I wasnt paying attention. However, for the past 4 years I have been paying attention. When are they talking about this stuff on the news?? :unsure:

I havent seen or heard a thing about Aspartame or MSG or any other food ingredient....I know I would not filter this out...I wouldnt miss it....its just not being mentioned. :(

The only way I've learned of any of this was from my own research on the internet...Thank God for the internet because if I were waiting to hear this on TV or on the radio...I'd be pretty darned clueless still. :blink:

Learning about this stuff came from listening to my body and looking up the ingredients. This is something that does interest me now (even if it didnt in the past)....I would LOVE to see this info. being passed on to people.

Maybe it was a one time thing?? Maybe it was metioned in one segment a decade ago or something?? Seriously, I must have missed it!! :unsure:

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I too watch the news and other shows to keep up with whats going on around me. I always like to check out the Health cast, but never do they mention Celiac or other things which we need to know.

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Maybe it was a one time thing?? Maybe it was mentioned in one segment a decade ago or something?? Seriously, I must have missed it!! :unsure:

Unfortunately it usually is a one-time thing. The media tends to give more air time to things that we can eat (dark chocolate, wine), and give less attention to issues that would require people to do something (fair trade coffee/chocolate, eat less meat (for the sake of the planet, not your own personal health), destruction of the rain forest for cows, and so on).

I think that money makes almost all decisions, and so I never view anything without considering the source and what prompted it. This is my objection to some of the urls people give to support their theories. Many of them can be traced back to a financial gain for the person/item on the url. I don't trust money as a source of information either on the web, or from the media, or from my government.

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I know because I pay attention.

I'm sorry, Jestgar, but I really feel like you are slamming everybody who doesn't know what you know.

I, too, pay attention--especially to news about aspartame. You see, the father of my best friend in high school was one of the Searle company's chemical engineers who helped develop Aspartame, and he never let his family touch it. She told me that he said that it had not been sufficiently tested, and that he thought it would turn out to be carcinogenic. So I've been waiting for news of this for nearly 30 years. But I have not *once* heard anything about Aspartame being a neurotoxin--except from you. Not that it would surprise me if it is a neurotoxin. I just can't understand your condescending attitude towards those of us who have not heard that it is, as though we are either not as intelligent as you or as though we have blinders on.

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Fiddle-Faddle, I didn't mean for it to sound that way, that's why I went on to explain that there are a lot of things I DON'T pay attention to.

I think that everyone is brilliant when discussing something that they personally take an interest in. You sub-consciously pay attention and so pick up on one -line mentions of certain things.

I'm also not surprised that you haven't heard anything because the aspartame people have some political connections and managed to down-play the information (unlike the the saccharin people who had the "carcinogen" label attached to their product for years).

I haven't heard anything about it being carcinogenic, but like any chemical ingested in large doses, it can't be good for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy

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I remember the aspartame controversy dating back to when it was first introduced...and followed it somewhat through the years. I thought it was a bad idea then and still do, but ingest it more now that I used to allow myself to. I won't let my kids have it except for the odd piece of sugarless gum.

I also remember hearing about celiac about 10 years ago. At that time, there was tv segment that was shown repeatedly in Vancouver, BC that talked about what celiac is, and what the diet was all about. I actually paid attention to it and got a lot out of it...and remember thinking how difficult it would be to manage. Who thought I would end up looking at it from a different perspective now?

I do have a tendency to pay attention to/seek out medical and health information, and especially consumer info...guess it's a bit of a passion/hobby...maybe just a little OCD. LOL! :lol:

Michelle

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Sure, there are corporate cover-ups generated by fiscal drive, but most things, like the consumption of milk products, are not new. Generations have flourished "on the cow". Perhaps our increasingly toxic environment has more to do with current food intolerances than the foods themselves. Perhaps the levels of stress we live with does too (although I can't imagine more stress than living the unsure life of a few hundred years ago.)

Sorry to go on another tangent, but if a person goes to the grocery store and buys a carton of fat-free homogenized, pasteurized milk, the substance they are about to drink has very little resemblance to the stuff that actually came out of the cow. So...I guess I'm saying I agree with you about this. B) It might not be the actual food that's causing the intolerances and problems, but rather the extreme levels of processing that result in highly toxic substances being marketed as food.

Just felt like saying that. Back to the aspartame discussion.....

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This makes me feel quite defensive,

I'm sorry that I said something that made you feel that way, I really didn't mean to. Since your original source was worried about it being a carcinogen, maybe you were paying more attention to that aspect of it.

Did you ever hear anything about it being a carcinogen?

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I'm sorry that I said something that made you feel that way, I really didn't mean to. Since your original source was worried about it being a carcinogen, maybe you were paying more attention to that aspect of it.

Did you ever hear anything about it being a carcinogen?

Nope, never heard anything about it except that it increases one's appetite (which makes it totally useless as a weight-loss tool). I was paying attention to anything about it, not just the carcinogen aspect. I also tend to pay intense attention to *anything* with neuro effects, as one of my kids was initially diagnosed with autism.

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This makes me feel quite defensive, as I did NOT know that aspartame is a neurotoxin, and, as I said, I have been following it closely in the media for DECADES.

I admit I did not know about aspartame was a neurotoxin, these are things that I am learning along the way. There are a lot of things that I never knew before going gluten free. I ate everything and anything I wanted to and didn't feel a need to pay attention. Now things are different and I am very aware of what is going into my body.

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Sorry to go on another tangent, but if a person goes to the grocery store and buys a carton of fat-free homogenized, pasteurized milk, the substance they are about to drink has very little resemblance to the stuff that actually came out of the cow. So...I guess I'm saying I agree with you about this. B) It might not be the actual food that's causing the intolerances and problems, but rather the extreme levels of processing that result in highly toxic substances being marketed as food.

Just felt like saying that. Back to the aspartame discussion.....

I do not mind discussing dairy. The stuff that comes out of the cow, as you say, is no better for you than the homogenized, pasturized, fat free stuff. There is a growing segment of the population that is becoming aware of the dairy propaganda we're force fed from birth. The fact is, your bones will be weaker if you rely on dairy for calcium. Why are cigarette companies the only ones being called to the mat for their product? One day, I hope the dairy industry pays for the suffering they caused for profit.

The party line for those who want to continue the dairy lie is right here from the FDA..

http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/1997/697_bone.html

They are lying to us. They know dairy products are not fit for humans to consume. They know the damage it does. Just as they knew cigarettes were bad for our health. They are all profiting and we are losing. From the time I was a child growing up in the United States until today when I am nearing 40, the tenor, the hysteria calling out to us in every other tv commercial to purchase a drug, to consult my doctor, the ads in the magazines and newspapers, the children on mind altering drugs, the drugs pulled for causing deaths... when did we accept that ? When did disease mongering become so popular?

When did we accept essentially experimenting on the population with poorly tested drugs? Maybe we abdicated all of our authority over our health long ago when we agreed to smoke cigarettes simply because it wasn't "proven" that they caused cancer... or we were outraged that in a free country TAB could be possibly removed from the shelves for containing a NEUROTOXIN... or we started feeding our children ritalin like it was necessary... or we allowed ourselves to think a Lunchable was a healthy lunch... or when we look the other way when thousands of people a year die as a result of drugs that get pulled- AFTER they were declared safe!! Yet a cancer patient can't smoke pot to dull the pain??? Stevia is finally allowed in the United States as a "dietary suppliment" not a food product??? There's such a disconnect of common sense, health and responsibility in this country today.

Let's irradiate our fruits and vegetables now because last night on Dateline NBC they showed the disgusting conditions of the fruit packers urinating near open crates of fruites and vegetables. Nevermind that irradiating the food causes chemicals changes that we have NO way of knowing right now the long term health consequences. They talked about better farming practices on that show, but apparently, those better farming practices aren't practical.. WHAT? That's all? Move on to irradiation, folks! Don't fix problems, just make new ones. Why stop feeding your children sugar? They have these great commercials where happy families monitor their diabetes and the people don't have to make a single alteration in their life! Feed the kids sugar bombs for breakfast and tell yourself you'll purchase a top of the line blood sugar monitor for the little tykes when they develope diabetes!

WOMEN... for decades they have been taking synthetic hormones to control their menopause. When the mass experimentation on females ended, the result was mass death. Dig a grave for all the victims and get a plow. The drug companies pumped women full of hormones declaring that menopause is an unnecessary discomfort not to be endured. The drugs they gave the women in this country were the main reason for the horrible climb in breast cancer diagnosis. Our attention span is so short. Why wasnt' anyone punished? So breast cancer deaths are down dramatically in the three years since hrt was finally shown to be the deadly therapy it is. I'm so sickened by the hrt *scandal* because that is what it is. Someone should be held accountable. The fda should be stopped. Experimenting on human beings.

What's a nitrate? If it's invisable, it must not be that dangerous! Why on earth are nitrates even allowed in our food when the FDA was willing to arrest people for STEVIA??? WHY is it approved for FOOD?

A Neurotoxin?? My skull will protect me! I'm immune to silly little neurotoxins! Why are they necessary in FOOD? WHY are they approved for FOOD?

Anyone a fan of the history channel?? I am. I saw a great few shows on the downfall of the world's great civilazations. Soon after that came the show on the Dark Ages. It got me thinking.. I think we're headed there again. People have lost all sense of the fact that we're spiritual beings living in an organic shell. You can't nourish your body with chemicals. And people seem oblivious to the fact that their own government agencies are profiting financially by allowing deadly products on the market.

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A little late to the party here.....interesting stuff. One thing I'm wondering, Hawkfire, and others, is about the health benefits of coconut oil. I have been reading controversial reports about it - the bad reports maintaining that it's definitely not recommended for heart patients:

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Except that it has a higher smoke point and stability....but would you guys mind explaining why coconut oil is so healthy? I tried to explain it to someone today and for the life of me, couldn't remember anything. Thanks!

It's a good fat.

Check out mercola's site for a more thorough explanation.

http://www.mercola.com/products/coconut_oil.htm

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thanks susan for the other side.

I too have been hearing the good things about using coconut oil and was going to get some..

i never heard what you found either

thanks for sharing.

judy

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A little late to the party here.....interesting stuff. One thing I'm wondering, Hawkfire, and others, is about the health benefits of coconut oil. I have been reading controversial reports about it - the bad reports maintaining that it's definitely not recommended for heart patients:

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What comes to mind about "sheople" (people following like sheep) being oblivious to eating all the processed crap and chemicals is the movie idiocracy. (I'm not calling anyone an idiot). But I think that is where the world is headed. They just do what the goverment says is good. They don't think for themselves.

I feel bad that Nama's thread has been steered off topic. Perhaps we should start antoher thread to discuss the evils of the fda and what not?

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Yes, Nama, we're sorry we got so far off course!

Just wanted to add that the nitrATES aren't as big a problem as the nitrITES (which is what is in bacon and cured deli meats). HawkFire, I think nitrITES was what you wanted to mention rather than nitrATES?

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I was going to mention the hijacking of my thread, but was getting a kick out of the debate, so let it slide.

BTW, coconut oil has more saturated fat than butter. I think that is why the american heart assoc. doesn't recommend it's use as a common cooking agent.

I understand from this forum and my own research that coconut oil has a higher smoking temp than the liquid oils, and that may mean that it produces less toxicity as it heats, but one should not throw caution to the wind just because someone (mercola?) says so.

Yes, let's not be sheople. What about your health are you more interested in? And, if heating oils is unhealthy in general, why not quit frying? There are better ways of preparing foods.

Also, it is reasonable to assume that most businesses are based on profit. Every business wouldn't be in business if they didn't assume a profit of some sort. I actually work for "the government" and never use my power for personal gain, nor does anyone I know who works for government. It's just a job. I am grateful that our country has the resources for research, etc. (that takes a lot of money.). I try to use my common sense when deciding what is healthy and what is not. I personally don't buy into the whole "government as the enemy" thing. Just my opinion, don't mean to offend anyone, or suggest that others' opinions are not valid.

Anyway, gotta run. Thanks for the lively discussion.

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I am thinking that a lot of the testing on coconut oil was done with hydrogenated coconut oil (transfat) rather than the pure stuff, but this is just conjecture. I do think I read that somewhere, but don't have the source.

Coconut oil is a natural anti-fungal, anti-biotic, anti-viral. It's also a medium chain fatty acid, but for the life of me I can't remember why that's significant. :lol:

It's not saturated fats that are bad for you, rather transfats. This is only now coming out in the open. They were treated as the same thing before, but they're very different. Natural saturated fats are the way they are found in nature. Transfats are hydrogenated to make them solid at room temperature.

Of course, all fats should be used in moderation ...

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...p;dopt=Abstract

The fat in coconut oil is not the same as the long chain fatty acids. It is a MEDIUM chain fatty acid. There are pages and pages and pages out there of studies proving coconut oil is far better for you than the seed oils we're used to using. WHY do we use them? Because it is a profitable agricultural crop in the U.S. and the people we elect are taking money from those big agribusinesses and allowing them to continue to push their lesser quality products on us.

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