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Anyone Else See Sicko?

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Let me start by saying that if you despise Michael Moore I understand but don't care to discuss that. Generally his movies are pretty one sided but this one was very different in my opinion. He even slammed Hilary Clinton for taking donations from pharma companies and he used to worship her. He's not to the left or right on the healthcare issue - as I understand his points anyway. We were in town for the 4th so we went to the movies and I felt sad and angry that the US is so screwed up regarding healthcare/insurance/drugs - and 37th in healthcare quality world wide - WHAAAAAAA?!

We have the best doctors in the world here but the best I've ever met were not even born in the US. A Neurologist that advised me about a condition he had, and that my deceased MIL and her brother had, told me he was ashamed of the doctors he met in his quest to save his life. He ended up in London for treatment - about 1/10th the cost of treatment here - but it was a different treatment. No on in the US told him about the treatment but he eventually found out that his US docs had been to a conference where this treatment was taught about. In the sick docs words 'why would they tell me I can save 90% of $150K by going to London? He says he was proud of his profession until he got sick and had to deal with greedy docs himself. Now he's simply ashamed that so many US docs are all about the money and not about helping people.

Okay so my question is - did anyone see the movie and if so, what did you think about it? I knew about a lot of what was shown but not all of it. I always thought Kasier was the devil and now I know it's true. I'm talking about the guy who started it so please don't tell me why you love Kasier insurance. I know too many people they screwed over to count - my own Grandmother being one of them. The movie isn't about Kaiser but just played some Nixon tapes approving the HMO idea in the early 70's.

I recommend every American see this movie - even the ones who really really hate Michael Moore. It will really make you think about a lot of things which I can't explain in a post. My husband and I are going to research where his international company has jobs where we could learn the language and will consider trying to move closer to retirement age - if of course we can stay in the chosen country once he retires. We'd actually thought about this before but now it's more serious. I'm actually scared to live out the latter part of my life in the US. Oh and if you do go to the movie make sure to look closely at the scroll of diseases which are conditions you'll be automatically rejected for insurance in the US. Make sure and check the 'C' section.

I love America (so please don't tell me I don't) but you don't have to love everything about a place or person or anything. We are so screwed up on this issue and I just don't think the problems are fixable at this point - and certainly not by the time I'm in my sunset years. More and more people are retiring out of the states and now I totally understand why. Most of them would rather stay put but also want to enjoy their retirement and not worry if they can buy meds/pay for medical care. I mean we save and we invest and in the end, one big bill from a medical emergency/illness could ruin us financially. Blue Cross already tried to drop me two months after I was diagnosed with something that's not supposed to be mentioned in this thread.

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I am going to see the movie tonight. Can't wait!

Why would anyone think you don't love this country? You are exercising your first amendment right of free speech. Humans are not infallable. Therefore, the USA is not infallable. We have serious issues to deal with - one of them being health care.

Always be weary of the people who claim our country to be the greatest yet have never stepped foot outside of it to actually compare it to others. LOL

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I haven't seen it but hope to soon! You bring up excellent points, I get the idea you love the U.S. very much! ;)

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My son went to see the movie and insisted that my husband and I go. I saw "Fahrenheit 911" and was very impressed with it. "Sicko" was equally good. Although Moore is sometimes a little farther left than I, he really knows how to expose the issues. He is sometimes criticized for some of his data, but data from one study to the next can be very different. It's obvious, too, that the other side produces its own set of data.

As a teacher, I see kids who need medical, (especially dental) treatment, but they don't receive it because their parents' insurance policies don't cover the needed procedures. I notice this more with the working poor than the ones whose families have been on public assistance all along. Sometimes I think about all of the benefits that good medical care has provided me, and I feel such sadness for people who have similar problems that have not been addressed. I have foot problems and wear customized orthotics. Without them, I would have terrible foot pain, which would definitely affect my employment. I also have severe seasonal allergies which lead to sinus problems if untreated. On top of that, I've been on medications for depression for years. Without these, I would be terribly depressed.

As for Kaiser, I used to be an early intervention specialist and worked with small children with disabilities. One of the kids was this beautiful little twin with cerebral palsy. I can't remember the exact details, but the Kaiser doctor had not arrived to deliver the baby so they had the medical staff delay the birth until their doctor could arrive. Problems developed in the meantime, and the sweet little girl sustained brain damage.

There will always be the people who believe that everything in America is good, politicians are honest (as long as they profess a certain type of religious faith), our international policies are always motivated by a higher good, etc. While I love my country, I believe that the United States is not infallibe and that in recent years we have strayed far from the values made us the greatest nation on earth. I hope that some day we can get back to those values and be respected again around the world.

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I hope to see it soon. Don't retire to here (Canada) as our health care is getting worse by the day. I actually would love to retire to Cuba.

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I am looking forward to seeing that movie! I understand your fears of talking bad about of the US, many people take the "if your not in agreement with everything we do, your against all we do!" stance. I agree i love america, but there are so many ways we need to improve it!

I had a problem with healthcare limiting my choices. Previously, I was switching job, and because I was ill (not one seemed to be able to figure out what was wrong with me), I needed to keep Insurance. I applied for indvidual coverage, and was denied... due to my weight. You know Health insurance companies will insure smokers, but will not insure overweight people!? this forced me to stay on Cobra for quite a while. :( I am curently looking for a job... I found the perfect one... it dosen't have a goup health insurance plan, only a monthly stipend to cover costs. I had to give up my DREAM job, all beacuse of Celiac and my weight.

I have been shuttled around to doctors, and they all (except my GP) want to get you in out and on some drugs. Sad Sad state of a once well respected profession.

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I hope to see it soon. Don't retire to here (Canada) as our health care is getting worse by the day. I actually would love to retire to Cuba.

Well Rusla - after you see this movie, you really will want to retire in Cuba.

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Let my start off by saying I do not think US govt. can do a good job with healthcare - I do not trust them with my health - case in point is US govt. military hospitals and especially how a veterans hospital misdiagnosed my husband and disrespected him...anyway I think that we are going to see a great change in our healthcare system as many people are rising up in protest.

Part of the movie you described I don't understand is how this person got treatment in UK and wasn't a UK citizen? I heard that UK health system is like Canada's....so I am very confused now.

I also feel that the working poor who cannot afford insurance are in trouble. Only problem is I can't afford higher taxes to help them as it'll make me then live out of my car. How do we resolve all this to everyone's benefit?

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Sorry to confuse you - the neurologist I spoke of paid cash for his London treatment and is not in the movie at all. I was just making the point that doctors here will literally let you die if you can't afford treatment before telling you there is alternative treatments that are much cheaper out of the US. And not just in Mexico. This was not a point made in the movie either - just my personal observation and the doctor who lived it's truth.

I agree that the US gov't can't run a healthcare program and that's why I'm not planning on living here forever. If the US citizens had a healthy lifestyle - and let's face it most of them do not - there might be an answer to this horrific problem. If Brittian had hoards of obese people coming in for treatment, they probably could not afford to offer the care they do now. The average American wants to eat junk, not exercise and take a pill for everything. This is very unlike most of the rest of the developed world. I'm not trying to offend anyone but when in Europe on vacation we can almost always tell who is American by their size. True the normal or thin Americans don't stand out but if you see someone who's obese in Rome, London or Paris - 99 times out of 100 they are American. I proved my point more often that I was comfortable with so I stopped playing the game. It really made me sad to see how unhealthy Americans are as a whole. I never thought about it until I went to Europe and saw it first hand. It's really shameful to me. How many people are dying from hunger all over the world and we're (not me mind you) over here supersizing everything.

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Before I make an opinion (private opinion) on this I'd need to know:

credentials of doctors offering the alternative treatment in other countries

locations of those other countries

types of alternative treatments and the ailments they are for

peer review of the alternative treatments (both in that country and in USA teaching hospitals)

mortality rates of those taking those out of country alternative treatments vs. standard treatents in USA

cost of living/income of USA vs. those other countries

standard of living/income of USA vs. those other countries

The information provided doesn't provide this documentation so it's premature to say "yea" or "nay" to the idea of moving out of this country due to healthcare issues.

This is not about people who get diseases naturally:

Agreed that Americans need to take better care of themselves - but from what I see they continue to keep their bad habits (overeating, smoking, suntan booths, etc.) and then look for help when they are unhealthy & have a health problem and then need a lot of medical attention and need more than one specialist -- then it's expensive. So it could be said that if you take the steps to ensure that you are in good health all your life (no smoking, no tanning booths, no bad diets, no extreme sports, etc.) you can help prevent health care expenses from spiraling out of control. Avoiding bad habits won't stop all health ailments but it'll help. Additionally, people who these bad habits don't want to hear about how they are hurting themselves: I have a sister in law who does not believe that smoking causes lung cancer.....and continues to smoke.

I also believe, however that people in these other countries which have alternative treatments smoke and overeat as well. Especially in a developed country. Maybe it's not to the point that USA citizens do it.

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I'm not trying to offend anyone but when in Europe on vacation we can almost always tell who is American by their size. True the normal or thin Americans don't stand out but if you see someone who's obese in Rome, London or Paris - 99 times out of 100 they are American. I proved my point more often that I was comfortable with so I stopped playing the game. It really made me sad to see how unhealthy Americans are as a whole. I never thought about it until I went to Europe and saw it first hand.

This is so true! I was in Europe last fall for 15 weeks, and we could play spot the tourist by the end! You can tell Americans because of their size, their loudness, their jeans, their sweatshirts, and their shoes :lol: In fact, people always assumed I was German or English because I was thin/talked quietly/dressed well. However, I think if we did change the philosophy of healthcare to preventative instead of treatment oriented, people would be more likely to be thinner. And if we could through out most of the processed crap that the major companies pass as food, we'd be all set.

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My family is mostly in England/UK. Their socialized health system is FAR from perfect. When my grandpa was sick with cancer and multiple strokes, the wait times were horrendous. I don't think socialized medicine is the answer, but we should look at the reasons it's so expensive, and fix those.

Better government support for drug research, and then issue drugs without patents.

Better scholorships for medical schools/nursing schools, etc.

more limitations on suing for medical damages. (Dr's will make mistakes. they can be held to very high standards, but suing them for hundreds of millions when they make a mistake does no good for our society.)

etc, etc.

The fact is, Medicine is expensive. Someone has to pay for it.

Of course, if were weren't spending Hundreds of Billions in Iraq, we could pay for a lot of health care here.

I look forward to seeing the movie, but I don't believe socialized medicine is the answer.

Geoff

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My family is mostly in England/UK. Their socialized health system is FAR from perfect. When my grandpa was sick with cancer and multiple strokes, the wait times were horrendous. I don't think socialized medicine is the answer, but we should look at the reasons it's so expensive, and fix those.

Agreed.

It's free at the point of entry, but you (seriously) might die waiting to see that specialist.

If you don't like the alotted doc you finally get to see - too bad

If I had the money I would pay for private healthcare.

Many procedures in the UK (e.g heart bypass, hip replacements) can be refused on the grounds of smoking/obesity.

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Agreed.

It's free at the point of entry, but you (seriously) might die waiting to see that specialist.

If you don't like the alotted doc you finally get to see - too bad

If I had the money I would pay for private healthcare.

Many procedures in the UK (e.g heart bypass, hip replacements) can be refused on the grounds of smoking/obesity.

It is exactly the same here in Canada--socialized health care. It's a wonderful, heartwarming idea in principle, universal care for all citizens, but in reality it just no longer works. There is far too much expensive technology now, too many aging baby-boomers, too many obese/stressed out/smoking Canadians, for the system to hold up like it did, very efficiently, fifty years ago when universal health care became mandated here. Like in the UK, we have long wait times for surgeries (Michael Moore was incorrect in his movie on this one), and a critical shortage of family doctors. The thought of two-tier health care frightened me a few years ago, but then I started teaching at the French Embassy and found out from discussing it with the diplomats how this can really work. The French health care system is likely the best in the world. Those who can afford to go to a private hospital, do so. Those who can't, go to a public hospital. Doctors and specialists must do time in both places. No wait times, great quality of care....It's a system worth carefully looking at.

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Ok,

So I saw the movie last night. Moore focused most of the movie on people who had normal jobs (with health care) and suddenly lost everything due to sever illness. He makes Kaiser Permanente look like Lucipher (which they are). He focuses on the non-published atrocities of the US system (raising premiums so sick can't afford them, denying coverage due to experimental treatments or denying coverage due to pre-exisitng medical conditions).

He then focuses on the Canadian, English and French health care systems. He mentions that elective surgeries are often a long wait (though he made no mention of cardio thorasic or brain surgeries).

He really marvels at the French system (and so do I) and how they beleive in preventive medicine and better lifestyles than Americans (even though they smoke more and eat fatty foods too).

Lastly, he looks at the history of the US government and how it and health care providers have used propaganda against "socialized medicine" for years (scary some of the stuff they came up with).

He ends the show taking 9/11 workers who had respiratory problems from working on ground zero (that had been denied health care subsequent to 9/11) and took them to Cuba where they were treated quickly and freely (as well as a HUGE DISCOUNT on prescriptions).

All in all, a good flic. However, you may need a hankie for some parts of the movie. The story about the deaths of a father and a daughter will tug at your heart strings (Kaiser denied them coverage and rhey died).

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Alot of the Canadian health care system needs improvement, but alot of it is also hit or miss.

When my mom was hospitalized with diverticulitis last fall, she got excellent care. She was discharged (after the initial attack had subsided), had the colonoscopy the following week, showed she needed surgery, and was booked and had it two weeks later. I firmly believe it has alot to do with where you live in Canada and the availability of medical care in the particular area you live in......

Karen

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Guest Doll

I can't wait to see this movie. From what I know, healthcare is the US is truly a sad state of affairs. I agree that socialized Canadian healthcare is far from perfect, but it is NOT that bad for the majority of people. It really depends on where you live. If I lived in the US, I'd be dead right now. I have had a chronic serious health condition since age two, I would never get insurance of any kind, or without paying through the roof. As a student, I could not afford that. Instead, in Canada, I know I can walk into any walk in clinic for medical care and not pay a cent, go to a local hospital if I am injured and not have any direct costs, and have my eyes examined for diabetic retinopathy (leads to blindness if untreated) for free. I am also able to see a Registered Dietitian for free. Anyone who needs a medically prescribed diet can. I did not have to pay for my Celiac testing. I was Dx'd based on that, since EMA, Anti-Gliadin, and TtG (expensive) tests were used. I can claim gluten-free food on my taxes. Sure, I might have to pay for some minor things out of my own pocket, and I used to think this as unfair. However, I now realize just how lucky I am to be Canadian. My province pays for 100% of my diabetes supplies (insulin pump supplies alone are $350/mth) after I pay a small deductible once annually (3% of my income). I shudder to think of those with Type 1 diabetes who end up dead and/or in comas because they literally couldn't afford to live, and the US government doesn't care. Even for those without Rx coverage in their province, drug costs are still a fraction of the US. I see a specialist for free (Endo), and my GI referral for my biopsy (my choice) was rather quick. We have a doctor shortage, true, that is because many doctors move to the US to make more money. For profit is the name of the game in the US. We are expanding medical school seats and offering tuition reimbursement for those who will stay and work in their home province.

I agree that the French system is best, and that wait times here are well, not always so great. But at least we have the ability to get some healthcare in the first place.

The main reason our system is failing is because Canadians are also facing the same problems as the US (obesity, poor diets, smoking), although to a slightly lesser extent. The longer people fail to accept responsibility for their own choices and their health, the worse it will be for all of us who have genetic/non-preventable illnesses, and the population at large. I strongly think that those who *choose* to smoke, eat a poor diet, not exercise, etc. (and not even consider changing) should pay for all of their own healthcare. That way they can do whatever they want, and it doesn't burden the system. The reason why Canada does not have a national drug program yet is because the government rightfully refuses to pay for treating preventable illnesses, like Type 2 diabetes. Unfortunately due to this, those who have non-preventable conditions must suffer in the meantime.

I agree that if the UK had the same obesity rates as the US, the system would collapse. As obesity and related conditions like some forms of cancer, joint issues, heart disease, and Type 2 diabetes grows here, so do our wait times.

Ooops...sorry removed something I added that was supposed to be in another post... :o

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Ok,

So I saw the movie last night. Moore focused most of the movie on people who had normal jobs (with health care) and suddenly lost everything due to sever illness. He makes Kaiser Permanente look like Lucipher (which they are). He focuses on the non-published atrocities of the US system (raising premiums so sick can't afford them, denying coverage due to experimental treatments or denying coverage due to pre-exisitng medical conditions).

He then focuses on the Canadian, English and French health care systems. He mentions that elective surgeries are often a long wait (though he made no mention of cardio thorasic or brain surgeries).

He really marvels at the French system (and so do I) and how they beleive in preventive medicine and better lifestyles than Americans (even though they smoke more and eat fatty foods too).

Lastly, he looks at the history of the US government and how it and health care providers have used propaganda against "socialized medicine" for years (scary some of the stuff they came up with).

He ends the show taking 9/11 workers who had respiratory problems from working on ground zero (that had been denied health care subsequent to 9/11) and took them to Cuba where they were treated quickly and freely (as well as a HUGE DISCOUNT on prescriptions).

All in all, a good flic. However, you may need a hankie for some parts of the movie. The story about the deaths of a father and a daughter will tug at your heart strings (Kaiser denied them coverage and rhey died).

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I saw Sicko on July 5. I cried during the part about France. If I had the type of support the Frenchwomen described when my children were little and I was desperately ill without knowing the cause, it would have made such a difference in my life! It really made me realize how unsupportive the USA is of families and children despite the rhetoric.

What the movie says about the profit motive in health care creating an incentive to unjustly deny care is absolutely true. I worked for Blue Cross Blue Shield for two years. I was appalled to hear management proudly discussing their techniques for getting their claims denial rates up. They were actually proud of this, not ashamed! They also had different nurse case managers depending on who was calling. If the caller was a corporate bigwig who was involved in choosing the health insurance provider for the next cycle, their calls went to nurses who were instructed to approve claims. If it was an unimportant normal worker who was calling about a precertification or an existing claim, their call was routed to the OTHER case managers, who were instructed to deny claims wenever possible. This was so the executives in the companies insured by Blue Cross would have a positive experience with claims and ignore or discount any complaints their employees might make. They never realized their claims experience was different from that of their employees. When I left Blue Cross I was offered 1 months salary if I agreed to sign a document to never divulge any of this. I refused to sign, did not take the money, and that is why I feel free to tell the truth about them.

I think Michael Moore is right, that we need Universal Health Care. It is not perfect. But our current system is awful. There is a massive infrastructure to support our adversarial claims system. We waste so much energy and money on claims tracking systems, billing clerks, case review nurses, and expensive computers to support it all. That money could much better be used in helping patients and furthering medical research.

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"What the movie says about the profit motive in health care creating an incentive to unjustly deny care is absolutely true. I worked for Blue Cross Blue Shield for two years. I was appalled to hear management proudly discussing their techniques for getting their claims denial rates up. They were actually proud of this, not ashamed!"

This is the reason why it will be a cold day in hell before the US has universal health care.

There is money to be made off of people dying and not getting coverage.

Everyone should see this movie. The first 30 minutes or so are dedicated to the couple that had good jobs, raised their kids, still had benefits and eventually lost all their benefits because of heart attacks and cancer. The company drove their premiums up, drove their deductibles up and they were prescribed so much medication to the point where the couple lost their savings retirement.

This isn't politics, its a wake-up call. Michael Moore doesn't have many friends on the right side of the political aisle, but even they should see this movie.

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I think that the whole of the corporate structure is corrupt. You work for a company for over 30 years contributing to the corporate billions. You retire with a pension. The company declares bankruptcy and terminates your pension and health coverage (promised for life), and notified by a simple form letter and did not have the nerve to have a signature at the bottom...and the corporate executives walk away with a 33 million dollar "golden parachute". And they continue to count their quarterly profits in the billions. Now that sucks!

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Warning: logic being applied - what I am about to say isn't for sake of an argument but it is based on economic principles. I am trying to put this simply for all to understand. Keep in mind I too may not necessarily agree with our system (USA) but I can explain it.

As someone who has been in insurance business all my adult life and understand rate making, etc. I can only say that the health insurance companies are run by stockholders (people like you and me who own stock in a company)...anyway, the state of insurance where they operate allows them to rule on what is covered & pre-existing conditions. It must be approved by the State's Dept.of Insurance first. So that's really who is to blame.

However, if the insurance company doesn't make a profit for the company and for the stockholders they will go out of business.

If the insurance company does not have a "reserve" of money to pay claims the state insurance Dept. will close them down.

This is due to our system of capitalism and insurance is a business. With the exception of certain types of insurance, most insurance is optional. Types of insurance that are not optional: workers' compensation, auto liability and flood insurance.

Dismantling our health insurance system to replace it with socialized medicine will put a lot of people out of work. I don't know how they'll be able to do this without putting our economy in a recession. I am just looking at the problem logically.

(a pre-existing condition rule is applied to discourage people who are suddenly sick and want coverage immediately. That's like insuring a building while it is burning. It's a sure loss for the insurance company. So the state allows this rule so that insurers are not taking on sure losses - no one would bet on a losing team...that's what it's like for insurance companies to write new policies on people with pre-existing conditions. Have I had that happen to me? You bet! Years ago when you had health insurance thru your employer and you changed jobs every health problem then was a pre-existing condition. Only recently the state relaxed the rules wherein in some states, if you've had health insurance for 60 days before taking out new policy you do not have to suffer a pre-existing condition rule.)

I have to agree that we must find another way to help each other; however, I don't have trust and confidence in my fellow man(woman). Everyone is out for themselves.

As a point of interest I have to say that the Amish do not have health insurance and when one of them gets sick their community pays the medical bills. That is true socialism. But this system also has it's downside in that like the other poster said, the healthy will then be paying for those who deliberately ruin their health. Where's the fairness in that? I'd rather take out my own insurance and carry my own weight. Let me deduct my premium on my tax return to offset my insurance expenses and any uninsured medical bills. They should bring down the deduction threshold so that all Americans can do it, not just those who make enough money or own property so that they can claim deductions. I think this will bring some equity to us all.

Just me musing.....

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I haven't gotten to see Sicko yet, but I will. I was never a big fan of Michael Moore's, but I applaud his efforts to bring this subject onto the big screen. Our nation MUST do something about our healthcare.I for one would not mind being a federal employee again..I used to work at the VA for 2 years when my kids were young. But what many private insured Americans don't get is that nationalizing healthcare will mean LESS for them as it will now be SOMETHING for those who don't have. Many of them get a deer in headlight look when I make that comment! Perhaps the French system(I need to read more about that) would be the best. And that doctors working both sides of the streets so to speak definitely makes it more egalitarian! From my Canadian patients I do understand there is a wait for certain services and procedures, just as it was 20 years ago at the VA. So we must pray for quality political leadership to guide us through this maze....I won't hold my breath. Neither side has shown much intestinal fortitude for this fight. AND !! There's more! Jan 1,2008 may signal the biggest crunch in US medical history. That is when there is a 10% cut to doctors from Medicare starts...they've put it off in Congress for the last 3 or 4 years . It is slated to decrease roughly 5% per year after that for 7 years......to average 40% total cut from now by then ! How many of you can take a 40% cut in income and still want to do that job??Since private insurance PPO's,etc tie their rates to Medicare, they will reap a HUGE non-earned profit and many, many docs will just stop practice. Importing doctors may not be so easy in the future,too.

SO if any of you have any great ideas, feel free to add it on. I hope to get my face in front of a Senator before they break for the holidays.....all said and done, universal healthcare will make my life better.

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AND !! There's more! Jan 1,2008 may signal the biggest crunch in US medical history. That is when there is a 10% cut to doctors from Medicare starts...they've put it off in Congress for the last 3 or 4 years . It is slated to decrease roughly 5% per year after that for 7 years......to average 40% total cut from now by then ! How many of you can take a 40% cut in income and still want to do that job??Since private insurance PPO's,etc tie their rates to Medicare, they will reap a HUGE non-earned profit and many, many docs will just stop practice. Importing doctors may not be so easy in the future,too.

SO if any of you have any great ideas, feel free to add it on. I hope to get my face in front of a Senator before they break for the holidays.....all said and done, universal healthcare will make my life better.

This decrease in benefits for Medicare is scary....doctors will want to refuse to take on new elderly patients and those on disability and the dependents of those on Medicare would suffer too, like children of people on disability. This just further proves that the government should not be in the business of health care.

I am not against importing doctors as it was a doctor from India who diagnosed my husband properly. Perhaps if American doctors didn't have their finger up their sweet potato for decades we'd see improvement on their side. Perhaps Medicare, with this benefit cut, is only now getting around to paying American doctors what they are really worth <_<

But all seriousness, the health industry is going to see further tough times.

I also see our healthcare problem as a result of people not making enough money to either buy health insurance or to pay the medical bills off -- although we are told that the economy is robust, it is not for the "everyman."

I heard a survey just a couple of months ago wherein people said that they felt that they were not doing as well as even their parents did when their parents were their age. This is true.

For example, in the late+ 1940's thereabout, and oldsters please correct me if my info is wrong -- many people didn't have 30-year mortgages on their homes --- many had only a 10-year mortgage.

And you were able to pay it off and have some money for retirement, pay for health insurance / medical bills, afford a modest vacation home, families would pool their money together to put Grandma in a nursing home - no Medicaid then and no social security system --- and you'd be able to put kids through college (or the college kid used to work their way through college - this occurred at least up until the early 1970's before college tuitions skyrocketed).

What I am saying is that during those days, and usually, a family had only one income (husband) - they did all these things.

Ok, there were groups of men/women who didn't have it like this, my in-laws for example; but a good number of middle-class people did live like this.

We keep looking at the symptoms of this problem (i.e., expensive health care, expensive insurance, expensive to buy a car/home/vacation/education) when we should be seeing that the problem could be economic. Additionally taxes have gone up. Many years ago there was no federal or state income tax nor sales taxes...and these taxes keep going up for the middle class - so more of your money is being taken away and you're left with less to spend. I'd like to know what percentage property tax was back then as compared to now....

So what I am basically opining is that, in my opinion as a person who has worked consistently for the past 33 years, is that personal income hasn't kept up with our standard of living.

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