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Gluten Intolerance & Bacteria Overgrowth

Lizking531

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Lizking531 Rookie
Lizking531
Posted

I was researching via the web on my symptoms & possible causes & treatments. I still have the hydrogen breathe test to complete for my GI Doc.

I was reading about bacteria overgrowth & what all it can do to your system.

While my symptoms have definitely responded to the gluten-free diet, I'm not totally convinced that it is the root cause of my problems. (Mainly because all my test came back negative & the last test to complete is the bacteria test - crossing my fingers) My doc told me to take probiotic supplements & I have been, it hasn't been quite daily & not necessarily the whole dosage (it calls for 1 can/day - I usually take 1/2). Well my symptoms have been bad this week - I'm thinking because I drank over the weekend - no glutening though. I drank 1 container of my probiotic last night & almost instantly my belly swelled to the size of a basketball & was rock solid - like it could get bigger. I did a bunch of deep breathing and relaxed and didn't really eat anything else - and today my tummy's flat and I feel better than I have all week.

I've read that bacteria overgrowth can lead to other issues such as food allergies, leaky gut, chronic fatigue, NASH, and a host of other ailments.

What kinds of test are out there?

What kinds of treatments are available? I've read that antibiotics, while they can relieve overgrowth symptoms, can actually aid in a recurring overgrowth by eliminating the good bacteria as well.

Is anyone familiar with any natural remedies/treatments?

I'm going to wait and see how my test goes & how well I continue to respond to the gluten-free diet, but I'm interested in researching my next move before I need to do it.

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CarlaB Enthusiast
CarlaB
Posted

Did you do the stool test to test for bacterial overgrowth? I did a 3 day random sample test ... it showed that I was lacking good bacteria despite the fact that I take a lot of it (VSL#3, Ultra Flora, and Theralac). It also showed that I have an overgrowth of Klebsiella and Citrobacter.

About two years ago I started losing weight ... I lost 15 pounds in three months, and I was not overweight at all to begin with. I appeared to have classic celiac symptoms and went through all the testing. I stopped eating gluten even though all the tests were negative and had a good response to the diet.

I would still have outbreaks of diarrhea and stomach cramping. I cut out corn, soy, and dairy. That didn't help at all. I made our whole house gluten-free and stopped eating out unless the restaurant had a gluten-free menu. I was definately 100% gluten-free, doing better, not losing weight, but still not regaining my health.

Several months into the gluten-free diet, my health started declining again. To make a long story short, I tested positive for Lyme Disease and am currently on treatment for it.

I kept telling my Lyme doctor that it was not the antibiotics causing the diarrhea, I had it before. So, I was tested for the bacterial overgrowth and we now knew the problem.

They started me on Cipro for the overgrowth and mega probiotics (I take about a trillion bacteria per day -- the VSL#3 has 450 billion cultures and I take it twice along with the others). The Cipro completely eliminated the cramping and diarrhea! I stayed on it for 20 days and the day I stopped it, it all came back.

The doc does not want me to stay on it longer because it's a "last resort" abx, so I'm on herbs for it now. The fact that I responded favorable to the Cipro was proof that the bacteria was causing the problems for me.

The herbs are working more slowly, but are a lot better for me. Today was the first day my diarrhea started resembling a normal bm ... I even got a YAY out of my 11 year old! LOL

I'm taking oregano oil and Uva Ursi. I'm supposed to be taking plant tannins and berberine as well.

I don't think it would be a good idea for you to take more probiotics than your body can handle. I eat NO sugar, NO alcohol, and NO yeast (no exceptions either ... except for a once per month treat with sugar). I eat low carb, with no simple carbs. I only eat berries for fruit because they are lower in sugar than other fruit. I always eat protein with a carb, even if it's undenatured whey protein (which is great with fruit, btw).

My stomach is getting better and I challenged gluten for the first time in 18 months ... NO reaction AT ALL!!! YAY!

I am NOT going back to eating gluten regularly as it's obviously a stress on my body or I wouldn't have felt better eliminating it, but I don't worry as much about contamination when I eat out any more (NOTE- I tested negative for celiac, it would NOT be advisable for a celiac to do this). I stick around here because I can still answer questions like these and answer questions about what's gluten-free and what's not. :) I have a lot of friends here. :)

If you got tested by Geneva Laboratories, I know that on the test results (ask for a copy) that they have the treatments listed ... both pharmaceutical and natural.

Your response to the alcohol and then to the probiotics could indicate a candida overgrowth as well. But candida doesn't just happen on its own ... you need to determine what caused it. Bacterial overgrowth could be from past abx ... I think that's how I got mine.

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burdee Enthusiast
burdee
Posted
What kinds of test are out there?

What kinds of treatments are available? I've read that antibiotics, while they can relieve overgrowth symptoms, can actually aid in a recurring overgrowth by eliminating the good bacteria as well.

Is anyone familiar with any natural remedies/treatments?

My naturopath gave me the Comprehensive Stool Bacteria, Yeast and Parasite test kit. I did the stool sample at home and sent it via DHL to Doctor's Data, Inc. in Chicago. (There are probably other labs which process that test). I put my sample package into a DHL drop box within a mile of my house. In 3 weeks I got my results of a Klebsiella (bad bacteria) overgrowth and very low good bacteria.

My doc treated the Klebsiella overgrowth with caprylic acid (from coconut oil). Then I took 2 week course (6 daily) of probiotic capsules (freeze dried with 8 billion live organisms per capsule) to reestablish my good bacteria. There are many ineffective probiotic products on the market. In order to get viable organisms, you need either a refrigerated or freeze dried product. Freeze dried and refrigerated before sale is best. Also you need a REALLY high viable organism count. If you are deficient in good bacteria, you may need 100-200 viable organisms per day for awhile.

I improved after my first probiotic capsule treatment (normal stools for the first time in my life). Unfortunately I got another food born bacterial infection while on vacation. After I took the stool test again 3 months later, I learned I had absolutely no bifidobacteria or lactobacillus acidophilus (good bacteria). I took a natural antibacterial product called Phytofuge (which is a combination of several antibacterial, antifungal herbs). Then I did a high intensity probiotic treatment (170 billion organisms per packet daily) for a week. However, I again developed symptoms (cramping, constipation despite fluids, fiber and magnesium) a few months months later. 9 months after my 2nd stool test, I took the stool test again and learned my probiotic levels were again very low.

Meanwhile I had read in "Why Stomach Acid is Good for You" by Jonathon Wright that people with low stomach acid easily get food born bacterial overgrowths. Normally high stomach acid destroys potentially dangerous bacteria in the stomach before they travel to the intestines. I took acid blockers and antacids for about 10 years and had all the symptoms of low stomach acid. So I began taking digestive enzymes with HCl (betaine hydrochloride) before I took my last stool bacteria test.

After my last test results showed low good bacteria I began a 2 week course of high dose probiotics. Within 3 days of taking those probiotics, my constipation disappeared (and never returned) and my digestion improved. Of course I suffered gas and bloating every day of that 2 week probiotic course, because probiotics changed how my intestines processed food. My doc told me to expect lots of gas and bloating, which showed the probiotics were 'reseeding' my gut.

I believe having more normal stomach acid levels from taking HCl allowed my last course of probiotics to 'take' without constant influx of bad bacteria from low stomach acid. After I finished the last probiotic course, my gas and bloating disappeared and I continued to have normal stools. I'm doing better now than I ever did before (after abstaining from gluten, dairy, soy, eggs and cane sugar, all diagnosed intolerance/allergies).

BURDEE

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Lizking531 Rookie
Lizking531
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Posted

My regular doc gave me some sort of stool test - it wasn't a multi day sample or anything. It was one sample into 4 different vials of various liquids. She also did blood & urine tests. My GI doc did more blood and a biopsy when he did the colon/endoscopy.

I haven't seen the actual paperwork for any of these tests though - The nurses for each doctor just called and told me everything was negative - I'm gonna try to get hard copies of the results when I go in next.

I've been drinking Bio-K diary free (made with soy) and eating Activia yogurt - both of these on direction from both doctors. It seems to help when I can take enough of it - probiotics are expensive!!

I've been reading about enteric coated peppermint oil to treat bacteria overgrowth. Ever heard of/tried it?

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darkangel Rookie
darkangel
Posted
I drank 1 container of my probiotic last night & almost instantly my belly swelled to the size of a basketball & was rock solid - like it could get bigger. I did a bunch of deep breathing and relaxed and didn't really eat anything else - and today my tummy's flat and I feel better than I have all week.

Rebuilding good gut bugs is just half the equation. If you've got an overgrowth of bad bacteria and/or yeast, you need to take steps to figure out what you've got and get rid of some of the bad stuff before the good bugs will have a shot at repopulating. An anti-candida diet would help. Sugar, alcohol and yeast are going to make the problem worse.

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CarlaB Enthusiast
CarlaB
Posted

I do use peppermint oil (from the health food store, not flavoring) when my stomach feels upset. I don't use it to kill the bacteria though.

Probiotic supplements are going to have a lot more bacteria than yogurt or other products. Plus, yogurt, kefir, etc. all have yeast, which is bad with this type of stomach problem.

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melmak5 Contributor
melmak5
Posted

This is me! (I have been in a lot of pain, especially after eating. Loud burps, gurgles, pressure, distention/bloating, the feeling that someone is shoving their hands under my rib cage)

I just had a bacteria overgrowth study: you drink a special sugar drink, then breath into a bag every 15 minutes for 2 hours. Came back positive.

I am now on xifaxan 400mg 3x daily for a month.

And trying to figure out what probiotic to take to help everything work. I was also on antacids for a few months, so I have been toying with the idea of digestive enzymes as well.

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Lizking531 Rookie
Lizking531
  • Author
Posted
This is me! (I have been in a lot of pain, especially after eating. Loud burps, gurgles, pressure, distention/bloating, the feeling that someone is shoving their hands under my rib cage)

I just had a bacteria overgrowth study: you drink a special sugar drink, then breath into a bag every 15 minutes for 2 hours. Came back positive.

I am now on xifaxan 400mg 3x daily for a month.

And trying to figure out what probiotic to take to help everything work. I was also on antacids for a few months, so I have been toying with the idea of digestive enzymes as well.

With my test I'm supposed to breathe into the bags every 30 mintues for 5 hrs!!!! Yeah!! another 14hr fast for me :( The stinking time involved has delayed my completion of this test.

The doctor recommended FloraQ probiotic. I've heard that the capsules aren't necessarily as stable as liquid form though. I've been drinking Bio-K. So far I can definitely tell a difference when I drink it, but it is very expensive - 6 containers for $25

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Janeti Apprentice
Janeti
Posted

I HOPE THAT EVERYONE IS STILL READING THIS THREAD...ICAN'T FIGURE OUT WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY GUT NOW! AFTER GOING gluten-free FOR 5 1/2 MONTHS, I CAN HONESTLY SAY THAT MY STOMACH IS LIKE A STEEL TANK. WOW, WHAT AN IMPROVEMENT... BUT I THINK THAT I HAVE SOMETHING GOING ON WITH MY INTESTINES. FIRST ONE SIDE OF THE RIBS HURT(NOTHING LIKE BEFORE THOUGH), THEN IT TRAVELS TO THE LOWER RIGHT SIDE, A SECOND LATER MY STOMACH FEELS SORE, BUT THEN DISAPPEARS. IS THIS WHAT BACTERIAL OVERGROWTH FEELS LIKE? I DON'T FEEL SICK ANYMORE, JUST MY INTESTINES SPASMING OUT? I DON'T UNDERSTAND? CAN ANYONE HELP? :blink:

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darkangel Rookie
darkangel
Posted

If you're feeling pain high, up under your ribs, that's not your intestines... maybe gall bladder?

I suppose bacterial overgrowth could cause pain and spasming, but the more obvious symptoms I associate with overgrowth of bad gut bugs are sudden and severe and/or chronic abdominal bloating, gas and gurgling, increased sensitivity to foods, brain fog, coated tongue.

I associate intestinal pain and spasms more with eating foods your body's unable to properly digest. Have you noticed any pattern of eating specific things that trigger these symptoms?

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CarlaB Enthusiast
CarlaB
Posted

Darkangel, the symptoms you describe sound like candida overgrowth, but not bacterial overgrowth.

Janet, your symptoms do not sound at all like mine. I get stomach pain and watery diarrhea from the bacterial overgrowth. I get lots of gurgling in my gut, too.

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Lizking531 Rookie
Lizking531
  • Author
Posted

I did my breathe test on Saturday - took my big bag o' air back to the doc first thing this morning - we'll see what the results say. I noticed when I drank the lactulose (little medicine/drink) almost immediately (a couple minutes) I noticed my guts started rumbling and had the big "d" (kinda - little different) for a couple hours & then it went away & I felt ok.

After the test I started taking a combo I was recommended to help rid my guts of the bad bacteria - enteric coated peppermint oil, caprylic acid tablets, and ginger capsules - 2 each before each meal, & these have toned my symptoms wwwwaaaayyyyy down (haven't had "D" since the special drink for the test) - and gave me long lasting minty breath :)

My next doctors appt isn't for another month, so I'm trying the natural remedy route. I'm trying to avoid taking antibiotics if I can - haven't heard anything good about treating digestive symptoms with them.

I'm staying gluten-free & try this for a bit before I go for another round of probiotics. Its day by day, but so far, on average, I'm starting to get back to where I was - I'm gonna quit smoking again -didn't smoke for 4 months, until all this got bad, then its been about 5/day - not a big smoker, I just cant seem to get rid of them completely

Anyone know anything about treating this herbally?

- I went on recommednation from a friend that works at the health food store, but I'm wondering what else is out there

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darkangel Rookie
darkangel
Posted
Darkangel, the symptoms you describe sound like candida overgrowth, but not bacterial overgrowth.

Janet, your symptoms do not sound at all like mine. I get stomach pain and watery diarrhea from the bacterial overgrowth. I get lots of gurgling in my gut, too.

My bad. I thought they had similar symptoms and they do, to a certain extent. Symptoms of bacterial overgrowth of the small intestine from Genova's Web site:

abdominal bloating and gas and possibly diarrhea within one hour of eating. You may also experience problems digesting dairy products or other carbohydrates. Unexplained weight loss, steatorrhea (fatty diarrhea) and Vitamin B12 deficiency are other clues to bacterial overgrowth.
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Janeti Apprentice
Janeti
Posted

I forgot to mention, that 10 ago before I started taking the threelac, I was fatigued and was getting sores in my mouth. I know, it's gross. The mouth sores are gone, but I do think that I have trouble digesting some foods. Why is that though? I wonder if now I will always have a problem. I also feel that I am on the verge of a vaginal yeast infection, then that feeling passes.....ITS MAKING ME CRAZY!!! Anyone have any thoughts? :o

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CarlaB Enthusiast
CarlaB
Posted

Lizking, I'm on Uva Ursi, Oregano Oil, and Plant Tannins. They were recommended by the lab that found I was positive for bacterial overgrowth. They are starting to help.

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burdee Enthusiast
burdee
Posted
I did my breathe test on Saturday - took my big bag o' air back to the doc first thing this morning - we'll see what the results say. I noticed when I drank the lactulose (little medicine/drink) almost immediately (a couple minutes) I noticed my guts started rumbling and had the big "d" (kinda - little different) for a couple hours & then it went away & I felt ok.

After the test I started taking a combo I was recommended to help rid my guts of the bad bacteria - enteric coated peppermint oil, caprylic acid tablets, and ginger capsules - 2 each before each meal, & these have toned my symptoms wwwwaaaayyyyy down (haven't had "D" since the special drink for the test) - and gave me long lasting minty breath :)

My next doctors appt isn't for another month, so I'm trying the natural remedy route. I'm trying to avoid taking antibiotics if I can - haven't heard anything good about treating digestive symptoms with them.

I'm staying gluten-free & try this for a bit before I go for another round of probiotics. Its day by day, but so far, on average, I'm starting to get back to where I was - I'm gonna quit smoking again -didn't smoke for 4 months, until all this got bad, then its been about 5/day - not a big smoker, I just cant seem to get rid of them completely

Anyone know anything about treating this herbally?

- I went on recommednation from a friend that works at the health food store, but I'm wondering what else is out there

I took caprylic acid capsules to successfully get rid of my Klebsiella (bad bacteria) infection. Then I took high dose probiotics to restore the good bacteria in my gut. CA kills off everything. I use peppermint tea occasionally for intestinal cramps and drink ginger tea for indigestion or nausea. Ginger tea is also great for chills or when I feel like I'm coming down with a cold.

BURDEE

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    • Fluka66
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      Thank you very much for your reply. I hadn't heard of celiac disease but began to notice a pattern of pain. I've been on the floor more than once with agonising pain but this was always put down to another abdominal problem consequently I've been on a roundabout of backwards and forwards with another consultant for many years. I originally questioned this diagnosis but was assured it was the reason for my pain. Many years later the consultant gave up and I had a new GP. I started to cut out certain food types ,reading packets then really started to cut out wheat and went lactose free. After a month I reintroduced these in one meal and ended screaming in agony the tearing and bloating pain. With this info and a swollen lymph node in my neck I went back to the GP.  I have a referral now . I have also found out that acidic food is causing the terrible pain . My thoughts are this is irritating any ulcers. I'm hoping that after a decade the outlook isn't all bad. My blood test came back with a high marker but I didn't catch what it was. My GP and I have agreed that I won't go back on wheat just for the test due to the pain , my swollen lymph node and blood test results.  Trying to remain calm for the referral and perhaps needed to be more forceful all those years ago but I'm not assertive and consultants can be overwhelming. Many thanks for your reply . Wishing you all the best.
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