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Guhlia

Nesting...

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Michelle, thank you for your post. I am so jealous that you got to do part of your labor in water. I have to be in bed for mine, hooked up to monitors, since I'm a vbac. I'm so glad that I'm choosing to go this route instead of having another c-section. I only wish my first one would have proceded as a natural birth. So you had a vbac too? What was your perception of the risks vs. having another c-section?

Stef, I absolutely LOVE that name!!! I love Lukas with a K and I LOVE Alexander. We were thinking about naming the baby Alexander if for some reason she ends up being a he. We would call him Lex. :) I really like your name choice though. Are you all done with the nursery and everything? I'm going to try to post some pictures later on today of our nursery. I'm finally getting to work on it now that its painted and the paint's dry.

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Michelle, thank you for your post. I am so jealous that you got to do part of your labor in water. I have to be in bed for mine, hooked up to monitors, since I'm a vbac. I'm so glad that I'm choosing to go this route instead of having another c-section. I only wish my first one would have proceded as a natural birth. So you had a vbac too? What was your perception of the risks vs. having another c-section?

I was able to labour (and birth) in water, because I chose to have midwifery care and to labour and birth at home. I planned on water for labour, and for birth if it felt right at the time, which it did. The entire process of birthing was directed by me, with guidance of experienced midwives. They didn't not "deliver" my baby, they simply supported me as I birthed her...I helped her out, I lifted her up, and I held her and we breathed together...no crying, noise, light or hospital bustle to disturb our moment.

My perception...well, I'll try not to write a book here, because I've got pretty strong feelings about vbac and the way that vbac is perceived by the medical community. ;) Most vbacs are no more risky than a first birth...so I find it perposterous that vbacs have to jump through so many unnecessary hoops to achieve success.

I truly believe that vaginal birth is the best choice for a healthy mom and baby. There are a few instances where c/s is the best choice (prolapsed cord as only one example) but most reasons for c/s are created by medical mismanagement (as was my own experience with my two c/s.) Unfortunately, tethering a woman to the bed with monitors and wires is one form of mismanagement that all too often leads a woman through the cascade of interventions that ends in c/s. Once you're stuck in bed, it can become diffcult to manage pain without drugs.

Drs set up many a woman for vbac failure for insisting on restricted movement...they are expecting the worst case scenario rather than a healthy birth. And that "worse case scenario" happens very, very rarely...especially if a vbac woman is allowed to labour without intervention and especially without induction or augmentation.

If you are able to negotiate intermittent monitoring and a help-lock for intravenous, you may be able to get out of bed to better to move about...perhaps even get into the tub or shower to use water for pain management. If your doctor is unwilling to bend on this, then do what you can to prepare for labouring in bed. It can be a more difficult road, but you can navigate it successfully if you are prepared well. I highly recommend checking out the book Birthing From Within for support and guidance in achieving a successful vbac (I found the book and class to be very healing, and an instrumental part in finally achieving a vaginal birth.) Also check out ICAN (International Cesarean Awareness Network) for support. It is a wonderful organization that has some really good resources for preparing for a safe vbac.

Finally, remember that a doctor or nurse cannot do anything to you without your consent, and that you need full information on risks and benefits before making any decisions. Do not get pressured into making quick decisions, and do not let them scare you. Remember that most c/s are not emergency situations...there are far too many stories about women being told they needed to rush into c/s only to end up waiting their turn in the OR...so much for it being an emergency.

I believe that having a doula (one with experience in supporting vbac mothers) can help tremendously in achieving vbac...she can help you get through labour pain, and help you think through decisions about your care before you consent or decline interventions. She cannot speak for you, but can provide expertise in navigating the hospital system, and will provide support to both you and your husband. Quite frankly, I recommend a doula for any birthing woman...its wonderful to have the support of an experienced woman to help one through the birth process.

Michelle

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Ok guys... Since we normally talk about Celiac poop... I have a question... I KNOW I didn't get glutened anytime within the last week, but I have had D for over a day now. Could this relate to the pregnancy or am I probably budding yet another intolerance? I have been casein free so I know it couldn't possibly relate to that if I even have an issue there... I feel so silly, but my first pregnancy was so far from normal I have nothing to base this one on.

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Ok guys... Since we normally talk about Celiac poop... I have a question... I KNOW I didn't get glutened anytime within the last week, but I have had D for over a day now. Could this relate to the pregnancy or am I probably budding yet another intolerance? I have been casein free so I know it couldn't possibly relate to that if I even have an issue there...

It can definitely be related to contractions/labour. :)

Michelle

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Hi Angie, oh yes, D is definitely connected with early labor. Congratulations, you might be there :lol: . The reason, why you get D right before the entire thing starts to get rolling is, so that your body can cleanse your intestines before pushing. It makes pushing stage easier, because there is no #2 in the way of baby :rolleyes: . This is the reason, why you'll get enemas in some hospitals.

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Oh, another thing, I forgot. I wrote a birth plan and showed it to my ob/gyn. He said, he was fine with that and put the entire birth plan as a copy into my patient files. Saturday, when I come to town next time, I will bring one to the hospital, too. So they can put it into my admittance/preregister file. I already preregistered four months ago, but they can still add it.

In my birth plan I wrote, that I would like to try and walk first to speed up labor instead of pitocin or any other augmentation. And instead of the EFM I would like to have Telemetry. This is basically the same thing, but without the wires, so that I can move around freely. Then I requested to only put in the hep lock set up, but not to connect it to a bag, so that I'm not restricted in my movements. My doc said, this is doable, since I also included to rehydrate myself with clear fluids.

Just wanted to let you know about the Telemetry thingy, in case you didn't know. A lot of hospitals actually DO have it, but don't remember anymore, where they put it, cause it's never really requested. So I made mine dig it out... lol. Best is to go there ahead of time and ask them or your doctor about it.

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Hi Angie, oh yes, D is definitely connected with early labor. Congratulations, you might be there :lol: . The reason, why you get D right before the entire thing starts to get rolling is, so that your body can cleanse your intestines before pushing. It makes pushing stage easier, because there is no #2 in the way of baby :rolleyes: . This is the reason, why you'll get enemas in some hospitals.

Enemas before birth are outdated, uncomfortable and completely unnecessary. Virtually no hospitals do them anymore (same goes with shaving.) Regardless of whether the body has been "cleaned out" (whether naturally or artificially) there is usually some stool passed during birth.

Michelle

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Enemas before birth are outdated, uncomfortable and completely unnecessary. Virtually no hospitals do them anymore (same goes with shaving.) Regardless of whether the body has been "cleaned out" (whether naturally or artificially) there is usually some stool passed during birth.

Michelle

Haha, that's funny. That's the exact same thing, I told Kathy, my best friend (she turns 50 in 5 days... so old school... lol). Kathy was like 'Really? Since when? I never heard about enemas being outdated.' She didn't believe me, when I told her, so I assumed, I was wrong. So, actually I was NOT wrong. Enemas ARE outdated. Glad, somebody confirmed that. Thanks, Michelle!... And actually I'm really glad for myself, cause I would be embarrased to get an enema and couldn't relax anymore, just by thinking aobut it...! <_<

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Oh, another thing, I forgot. I wrote a birth plan and showed it to my ob/gyn. He said, he was fine with that and put the entire birth plan as a copy into my patient files. Saturday, when I come to town next time, I will bring one to the hospital, too. So they can put it into my admittance/preregister file. I already preregistered four months ago, but they can still add it.

In my birth plan I wrote, that I would like to try and walk first to speed up labor instead of pitocin or any other augmentation. And instead of the EFM I would like to have Telemetry. This is basically the same thing, but without the wires, so that I can move around freely. Then I requested to only put in the hep lock set up, but not to connect it to a bag, so that I'm not restricted in my movements. My doc said, this is doable, since I also included to rehydrate myself with clear fluids.

Just wanted to let you know about the Telemetry thingy, in case you didn't know. A lot of hospitals actually DO have it, but don't remember anymore, where they put it, cause it's never really requested. So I made mine dig it out... lol. Best is to go there ahead of time and ask them or your doctor about it.

It's great you have your birth plan together, and have thought everything out...you'll be well prepared. :)

The telemetry monitoring can be hit or miss. As I understand it, it doesn't get used too often because it's awkward, somewhat uncomfortable (it is strapped around your belly), and isn't any more accurate at reading FHR (there is some measure of inaccuracy with both stationary and telemetric monitoring, especially when baby shifts position). Also it's not that readily available, and the one telemetric monitor available at a hospital may be in use by someone else when you are admitted.

A good alternative is to simply have the nurse do doppler monitoring at regular intervals. Unfortunately, it's more work and time for the nurses rather than relying on read-outs of all the active monitors at their station, but if you insist, then they should be willing to do it for you. It's also more accurate, simply because there is a person actively using the device and reading the results immediately. Best of all, you're not constantly attached to a machine. :)

Michelle

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Thanks, Michelle. I will consider that. That's also the same thing, they tell you in most of the (more modern) books. :rolleyes: So, what I will do is. I will change the sentence I have in my birth plan, that says: "Would prefer monitoring with Telemetry" into "Would prefer monitoring with Telemetry or, if not available, would like to have a nurse do doppler monitoring at regular intervals" Does that sound too pushy???

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Thanks, Michelle. I will consider that. That's also the same thing, they tell you in most of the (more modern) books. :rolleyes: So, what I will do is. I will change the sentence I have in my birth plan, that says: "Would prefer monitoring with Telemetry" into "Would prefer monitoring with Telemetry or, if not available, would like to have a nurse do doppler monitoring at regular intervals" Does that sound too pushy???

I don't think it sounds pushy. You do want to sound firm in your requests. Personally, this is the way I would word it in my own birth plan (I would prefer intermittent first, telemetric EFM second, EFM third, internal monitoring fourth):

"Because we would like to remain fully mobile during labour, we would prefer intermittent fetal monitoring by doptone. If constant monitoring becomes necessary, we would prefer to use telemetric EFM."

Michelle :)

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That especially sounds very good and also logically, because I asked my doctor and also the nursed in the hospital already, if I could labor in the tub. Well, everybody said yes, provided my membranes haven't ruptured yet. So, I think, the doptone makes even more sense, because I don't think it's possible to take that Telemetry gear into the tub with me <_< .

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some of these things you gals are discussing sound so nice in theory, but in reality, there can be some really serious and unforseen complications during the delivery of a baby. i would hate to see anyone not take these possibilites into account and be disappointed if their delivery did not turn out how they had planned. i had 3 successful v-bac deliveries, but they were not without some worry during the labor. one of them was delivered with forcepts and one of them had a brief few minutes that were pretty tense and the doc actually ended up calling to have the surgery room ready and put me on oxygen for awhile. we delivered ok, but the doc told me later he had thought he might have to section me. my uterus did tear after my last daughter was delivered, her v-bac could have been disasterous if we had done it---but keep in mind that she was my 9th baby and i was over 40.

if i were doing it all over again, even with complications, i would still choose to attempt the v-bac deliveries.

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some of these things you gals are discussing sound so nice in theory, but in reality, there can be some really serious and unforseen complications during the delivery of a baby. i would hate to see anyone not take these possibilites into account and be disappointed if their delivery did not turn out how they had planned. i had 3 successful v-bac deliveries, but they were not without some worry during the labor. one of them was delivered with forcepts and one of them had a brief few minutes that were pretty tense and the doc actually ended up calling to have the surgery room ready and put me on oxygen for awhile. we delivered ok, but the doc told me later he had thought he might have to section me. my uterus did tear after my last daughter was delivered, her v-bac could have been disasterous if we had done it---but keep in mind that she was my 9th baby and i was over 40.

if i were doing it all over again, even with complications, i would still choose to attempt the v-bac deliveries.

Yes, there can be complications in birth and one cannot ignore that. Often birth does not go according to plan either. However, a healthy woman who is allowed to labour and birth at her own pace and with minimum intervention is likely to have a safe, healthy birth outcome.

Having a birth at home doesn't mean that no precautions are taken either. My midwives had all the necessary equipment in case of emergency, and a plan was in place for transfer to hospital if necessary. A woman's body will also tell her when things aren't quite right...and that's when you make the switch to hospital, before it becomes an emergency situation. Like with my second birth, I knew that home wasn't the place to stay so I transferred to continue labour at the hospital.

It is very, very rare that a uterus will abrupt during a naturally progressing labour, even during a vbac. It is when a woman is induced or augmented that the risk jumps. Women should never be induced in a homebirth setting...well, inductions are done way too often in hospital settings too. And a woman attempting vbac should never be induced in either situation.

Michelle

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michelle, i am so glad to know that you had a plan in place to transfer to a hospital in case things looked like they could go wrong. i was connected (years ago) to a group of people that were so set on home delivery that they were upset with the doctor, who was will to home birth babies, because he insisted that they would have to go to the hospital if it looked like there could be problems. one of my cousins chose to delivery her baby at home with no one but her husband present-----no mid-wife. the baby died the next day on the way to the hospital. i have known of a couple of other people that had disastrous problems with home deliveries and it seemed like such a shame to be so set on something that it mattered more than the well being of the child. it is good for people like me, who admittedly are a little bit jaded about this issue, to hear that there are people like you that go about it very sensibly.

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michelle, i am so glad to know that you had a plan in place to transfer to a hospital in case things looked like they could go wrong. i was connected (years ago) to a group of people that were so set on home delivery that they were upset with the doctor, who was will to home birth babies, because he insisted that they would have to go to the hospital if it looked like there could be problems. one of my cousins chose to delivery her baby at home with no one but her husband present-----no mid-wife. the baby died the next day on the way to the hospital. i have known of a couple of other people that had disastrous problems with home deliveries and it seemed like such a shame to be so set on something that it mattered more than the well being of the child. it is good for people like me, who admittedly are a little bit jaded about this issue, to hear that there are people like you that go about it very sensibly.

I find it hard to believe that anyone could be hell-bent on homebirth to the point of risking a life. I would hazard a guess that your cousin's homebirth was not as cut and dried as you have made it out to be...you probably don't know the whole story, and I'd bet they were way more sensible about it than you give them credit. To give you another perspective, that cousin could very well have lost the baby with a hospital birth too. Sometimes babies don't survive regardless of the birth. Life is risky. Birth is no more risky than anything else we do in life.

Quite frankly, there really is no reason that a woman can't give birth on her own. It is wise to have the support of others who have BTDT, but it is really not absolutely necessary. And hospital is not the best setting for all people. Hospital is not a good place for me to birth, I proved it twice. I do not labour well in a foreign setting with strangers all around me. I labour better in my own space, where I can call the shots and can be myself with no apologies.

If I lived in a place where midwives were illegal, or it was illegal for them to attend a vbac, then I, too, would consider birthing unassisted. Glad I didn't have to face that situation. I really feel for women whose birth choices are limited by oppressive policies and doctors who are quick to perform surgeries. The c/s rate in the US and Canada is astoundingly high.

I experienced the doubt and talking behind my back when I planned my homebirth. I got no support from anyone other than my husband, and a couple of friends who had had their own homebirths. Everyone else was fearful, and tried to plant doubt in my mind, to make me change my mind. Everyone was certain that something bad would happen. Well, guess what? I did my homework, I knew exactly what I was getting into, and I had a safer birth at home than I could at hospital...where they would have likely augmented my long labour (putting my uterus at risk of rupture), and sent me back into the OR for another risky cesarean section because I wasn't progressing on their timeline.

So I'm jaded too. The medical community did me no favours in how I was forced to birth my sons. Women need to make their own birth choices for themselves. Everyone else needs to keep their worries to themselves, and stop spreading horror stories about homebirth as proof that women are making stupid, dangerous decisions.

Michelle

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Michelle, I have the same opinion, you do. In fact, I would love to be able to birth at home, too. I had a wonderful pregnancy, and I'm at low risk at the moment (was considered high risk for almost miscarrying in week 28 for a few days, but not anymore now, cause I made it to fullterm). There is nothing at the moment, that would keep me from birthing at home, except from my husband, who is a chick about it. He's so afraid, it ain't even funny anymore...

And to that story about the baby who was born at home and died the next day to the hospital. I also did my homework, like Michelle. Not only now, that I'm pregnant, but I also studied medicine for 14 months, years before I got pregnant. And from what I heard and read, that baby might as well have faced the danger of dying in the hospital.

In hospitals you or your baby are also likely to get an infection quicker than at home, with all their sick people having way more germs floating around than you at home. But the US anyway is the only country I ever experienced who is totally germophobic (not all of you, god bless you, but most) anyways. It's ridiculous. For heavens sake, we grew up in dirt and it didn't kill us. In fact, when I was a police officer in police Academy I had to hold and prepare a speech about SIDS. And in course of my research for this speech I discovered, that scientists found out, that more babies died of SIDS in households where it was meticulously clean all the time, than in households, where it was dirty. And why? Because the babies in the dirty households had more resistance against all those bacteries and viruses. Sounds logically to me... I experienced this myself already. Also, when I'm at home for weeks and don't get around much, I'm more likely to get sick once I go out than when I'm out and about all the time. And why? In huge masses and crowds of people you get in contact with germs more and therefore you get more resistant. Makes sense! When I had the security job I controlled thousands of people and their id cards each day. THAT was the time, when I was least sick, even when I was outside in rainy, stormy, snowy weather for hours, plus I had the undiscovered celiac at the time!

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Well, I just got back from the doctor and nothing's changed... No dilation, no changes to my cervix, the baby isn't locked in, nothing... I was hoping maybe there would be some sign that my body does in fact work. Nothing yet though.

Now I have a slight rant... I've been back from the doctor for a little over two hours and my husband has yet to ask me how the appointment went. He works from home and he's been upstairs several times and not once has he even acknowledged that I even went to the doctor. I know he knows I had my appointment today because he had to watch our daughter while I was there. My feelings are really hurt. Plus, my birthday's friday and I know he hasn't gotten me anything. He knows its my birthday because he had said that he thought the baby would be born on my birthday. I'm just feeling really down right now.

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i don't know that much about my cousin's home birth----but i do know that she chose to have a mid-wife the next time.

stef---i don't think my husband has ever asked me how an appt went in almost 20 years of marriage. if he has, it hasn't been often. i think mens brains are just wired differently----and they probably short out at times. LOL!!!

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Well, I just got back from the doctor and nothing's changed... No dilation, no changes to my cervix, the baby isn't locked in, nothing... I was hoping maybe there would be some sign that my body does in fact work. Nothing yet though.

Now I have a slight rant... I've been back from the doctor for a little over two hours and my husband has yet to ask me how the appointment went. He works from home and he's been upstairs several times and not once has he even acknowledged that I even went to the doctor. I know he knows I had my appointment today because he had to watch our daughter while I was there. My feelings are really hurt. Plus, my birthday's friday and I know he hasn't gotten me anything. He knows its my birthday because he had said that he thought the baby would be born on my birthday. I'm just feeling really down right now.

I'm sorry you're feeling hurt, Angie. :( Some guys (my DH included) can just be so thick headed. I'd suggest reminding him again that your birthday is on Friday, and go ahead and tell him what you'd like to do for it.

Regarding the appoinment itself, trust that your body is working. There may be no signs at all even up to right before you go into labour. Please don't let you doctor tell you that s/he needs to make things progress faster either...let your body take the time it needs...your baby will be born when she is ready. Until then keep busy, and try sex to encourage labour to start.

My babies didn't drop, water didn't break and cervix didn't move at all until labour started. My water broke in my last two pregnancies many hours into labour (didn't break at all until my c/s for my first.) :)

Michelle

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stef---i don't think my husband has ever asked me how an appt went in almost 20 years of marriage. if he has, it hasn't been often. i think mens brains are just wired differently----and they probably short out at times. LOL!!!

Angie, not Stef! I don't want to be a downer, but my husband has asked me everytime but once and that one day he was very busy. I gave him a list for my birthday as well and he invited me to Outback's Steakhouse. I know, he hates wrapping gifts, so Outback's seemed to be the best solution to him and at that point I haven't been out in ages. So that was kind of nice!

I hope your dh is coming around, Angie. I'm sure, once he sees his little sunshine, he will. Same goes for the birthday. As stupid as it sounds, but the male psychology works that way. They need to be reminded, what we want. Well, who on this earth has the power of foresight anyway, right? So if you don't tell him, what you want, he's clueless (how could he know?) and THAT discourages men. So go ahead and tell him, what you want.

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Michelle, I have the same opinion, you do. In fact, I would love to be able to birth at home, too. I had a wonderful pregnancy, and I'm at low risk at the moment (was considered high risk for almost miscarrying in week 28 for a few days, but not anymore now, cause I made it to fullterm). There is nothing at the moment, that would keep me from birthing at home, except from my husband, who is a chick about it. He's so afraid, it ain't even funny anymore...

It took some time for my husband to be accepting of homebirth. Neither of us was ready for it for my first birth, but I do wish that we had hired a midwife rather than going with our family doctor. Midwives had hospital privileges and were paid for my BC Health a month before I was due. I was too fearful to make a last minute switch at the time. Ended up with a c/s for breech without labouring.

After the hospital experience and doing a lot of studying and planning, my husband was fully supportive of both midwifery and homebirth. When we finally had our homebirth with my third baby, he found the experience to be just as amazing as I did. He had an active role in supporting me through labour, got to "catch" our daughter, and was able to snuggle up with us right after birth for a good nap while the midwives and doulas tidied up. No way that would have happened in hospital.

Michelle

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I still don't feel a real "need" to clean up. Yes, I wish, it would be cleaner. I never "wished" that before... lol. So maybe a step into the right direction. Tuesday evening, when I walked the one mile on the treadmill I thought, maybe what's a normal cleaning urge to a normal woman is 'sport' to me... lol. Pretty much like "my way of nesting"... lol. :lol:

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