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renik

Do I Have Celiac Or Another Disorder?

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Hi there,

I have been having intestinal problems now for about 6 months. I am a 28 year old male who has not had any medical problems up to this point. My guts have been constantly grumbling and growling consistently over that time. In the first couple months I had these symptoms I lost about 15 pounds. I also have not had a normal bowel movement since it began. I rarely get dirahea but do go to the bathroom 4-5 times a day. The stool is constantly a very light brown and quite often floats and smells really bad. It is also rarely in solid form but most of the time is I guess what you would call soft. I seems to all go in one pile. Sorry for being so graphic ;). I also seem to get really gassy quiet often. I also occasionally get a dull pain in the upper right area of my abdomen that seems to last for about 2 days and then goes away. I have had stool samples, upper GI, barium enema, and have had numerous blood test including a anti-glutaminase blood test that have all come back negative. I do have an appointment with a GI specialist coming up at the end of October. I really don't have any other symptoms except maybe feel a little fatigued when my bowels are really grumbling.

Of all the bowel conditions I have read about it seems that Celiac disease seems to be the condition that fits most. I have read about candida and wondering if it could also be that. I have read that most doctors believe that candida cannot occur in healthy individuals. What are other people's view on Candida here and do think it could happen in healthy individuals?

I am also wondering if I should change my diet to see if that helps. Should I go gluten free? Lactose free? Yeast free? or all the above?

Anyways thanks for reading and for any advice.

Thanks,

renik

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The stool description does sound suspicious for celiac. Is there any history of it in your family?

Candida overgrowth in the intestines is very common. Risk factors include having several courses of broad spectrum antibiotics and/or being on antibiotics long term for acne, and a poor diet high in starches and sugars. Try taking this online quiz to see if it might be a problem for you.

http://www.yeastconnection.com/yeast.html

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Guest Doll

That does sound suspicious for Celiac, but of course it could also be something else. What tests were done (i.e. liver enzymes, screening for bowel infections,) and what were the results? Do you have mucous or blood in the bowl? Do you have any other symptoms that you haven't mentioned?

What is your personal and family medical history?

At this point, *do not* go gluten-free yet if you want to try and get a confirmed diagnosis. If you do, your results can be falsely negative. Also, some gastrointestinal (stomach and intestine) diseases actually initially improve on the gluten-free diet (usually for a short time) but they are NOT Celiac and need additional treatment. I would follow up with your GI appointment and make sure you are properly screened for Celiac. That means a full Celiac panel (EMA, Ttg, Anti-Gliadin antibodies). Some people have negative bloodwork but a positive biopsy. This often is due to an IgA antibody deficiency, but this can be detected if the doctor does a total IgA count. If IgG antibody testing is done, usually this will come back positive if the person has Celiac, even if they have an IgA deficiency and those parts of the test come back negative.

Sorrry...that is probably too much info right now! :huh:

What you need to take from this is to make sure you get a *good* doctor who is willing to work with you, listen to you, do some detective work and piecing together, and figure out what's wrong. If all of your tests with the specialist come back normal, then I think trying the gluten-free diet would be the way to go. Go from there and see what happens.

Some people support Enterolab home stool testing for "gluten sensitivity", but I *personally* can't say that it is worth the amount of money when the current data says that stool testing is inaccurate or unreliable. Lots of false positives and false negatives. At this point, I *personally* recommend you try the diet instead without putting out any money on home testing. Until Enterolab publishes its data, it's really hard to say that it's worth the money ($200 I think?).

Hope you feel bette soon and welcome to the board! :)

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Hey thanks for the info guys.

As for my personal history the only thing I can think of is that about 5 years ago I experienced the dull pain in my upper abdomin that I am experiencing now. It only occurred back then once every few months for about a year. Each time I experienced it it started slowly and became more uncomfortable over about a 2 day span then it would go away. I never had abnormal bowel movements back then though. For the next 4 years I never experience the pain until the last few months. Not sure if that would be related or not.

As for my family history I do know that my Dad has had bowel problems for years since he was also in his late 20's. He is now 62. His family doctor at the time did think he had Crohn's initially but he never was diagnosed with it. I know he was diagnosed with polyps but I think that was over the last few years or so. I've never really asked him what all his symptoms have been.

I asked about candida earlier because my dad has stated that he believes that it is the yeast in foods like pasta, bread etc.. that has bothered him for years. I have been thinking that maybe it's not yeast that bothers him but rather the gluten. I don't believe he has ever been tested for Celiac.

As for myself I really haven't had any other symptoms than what I have stated above. I haven't seen any blood in my stool and my tests have also shown no blood. I was also tested for parisites which came back negative. I never was tested for liver enzymes.

Hopefully the specialist will do some thorough test on me. I do know that it was the specialist who asked my family doctor to get the anti-glutaminase blood test done on me. That's what got me thinking about Celiac and lead me to this web site.

Anyways thanks for the help. I think this forum is great and I have already learned a lot already.

renik

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Some people support Enterolab home stool testing for "gluten sensitivity", but I *personally* can't say that it is worth the amount of money when the current data says that stool testing is inaccurate or unreliable. Lots of false positives and false negatives.

What data is this & where is it available? I'm not trying to be argumentative ... I would be interested in looking at it. I didn't have the Enterolab testing until I had a positive response to the diet. Doing the test was more a matter of getting support for sticking to the diet in light of skeptical family members. I know my dear hubby thought my positive response to going gluten-free was all in my head until I could show him the test results. I am interested in seeing what happens to my scores after a full year when I retest.

I have wondered about the accuracy of the soy & yeast tests personally, since I've never noticed much of a reaction (to yeast, never; to soy, well ... at first I seemed to have some reaction if I messed up -- six months into the diet, I seem to be able to tolerate small amounts).

Of course, I would be interested in knowing how one can tell what IS false. Wouldn't you have to have some other means of testing that you know is accurate? It seems to me I've read lots of people on this forum who have had false results from blood work & endoscopies as well (or results they feel are false anyway :D )

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Hey thanks for the info guys.

As for my personal history the only thing I can think of is that about 5 years ago I experienced the dull pain in my upper abdomin that I am experiencing now. It only occurred back then once every few months for about a year. Each time I experienced it it started slowly and became more uncomfortable over about a 2 day span then it would go away. I never had abnormal bowel movements back then though. For the next 4 years I never experience the pain until the last few months. Not sure if that would be related or not.

As for my family history I do know that my Dad has had bowel problems for years since he was also in his late 20's. He is now 62. His family doctor at the time did think he had Crohn's initially but he never was diagnosed with it. I know he was diagnosed with polyps but I think that was over the last few years or so. I've never really asked him what all his symptoms have been.

I asked about candida earlier because my dad has stated that he believes that it is the yeast in foods like pasta, bread etc.. that has bothered him for years. I have been thinking that maybe it's not yeast that bothers him but rather the gluten. I don't believe he has ever been tested for Celiac.

As for myself I really haven't had any other symptoms than what I have stated above. I haven't seen any blood in my stool and my tests have also shown no blood. I was also tested for parisites which came back negative. I never was tested for liver enzymes.

Hopefully the specialist will do some thorough test on me. I do know that it was the specialist who asked my family doctor to get the anti-glutaminase blood test done on me. That's what got me thinking about Celiac and lead me to this web site.

Anyways thanks for the help. I think this forum is great and I have already learned a lot already.

renik

You sound like me, similar symptoms, simliar age (I'm 26) - my folks told me the same thing, that food with a lot of yeast bother them. All my tests (including celiac) came back negative, etc, etc.

Do you drink at all? If so, do you notice certain drinks bother you more than others (beer vs liquor - or Beer Brand A vs Beer B)?

After all my tests came back, I found this site and started a trial gluten free diet - Right away it helped - a lot. It's been a month and the initial breaktrough effect has kinda worn away & now I'm left with, albeit way reduced, similar symptoms as before (D, that pile you spoke of, abdominal pain). I'm now on a treatment regimen for bacteria overgrowth from my local health food store. This has helped a bunch as well.

If you haven't had any tests done yet, don' sweat it. I don't know about you, but for me, dealing with doctors is like bashing my head on a wall. Treatment and testing, in my opinion, is good to fnid out what you don't have, but a shot in the dark to tell you what you do have - but with that being said you might want to get checked just in case of something more severe (diverticulitis, cancer, etc, etc).

What helped me was staying away from so much processed food & keeping clear of beer (that sucks). Drink lots of water. You can also try taking probiotic supplements (they work, but they aren't cheap). A couple mild antibacterial supplements (that are commonly used for upset stomach) are enteric coated peppermint oil, ginger, and I've read garlic & oregano oil.

The possibilities for bacteria overgrowth are really varied - candida is but one of many bacterias that can run amuck. The problem I've read about, is that with an overgrowth - it takes a really long time for symptoms to appear outwardly - months or more - which also means that the remedy takes a while as well.

You might want to talk to your doc - then talk to a naturopath - or alternative medicine doctor. I was a skeptic at first, but after my experience with this, these folks are the ones who actually led me on a treatment path, not just endless tests.

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Those can be symptoms of celiac. Don't go gluten-free until you've been tested.

They can also be symptoms of bacterial dysbiosis. This is tested by a stool test. I took Cipro for 20 days for it and it went away. But, as soon as I stopped the meds, it came back. So, rather than taking such a strong abx, I'm not on Oregano Oil, Plant tannins, and Uva Ursi. I'm taking massive probiotics, too. It is definately helping.

Generally speaking, candida overgrowth does not just happen in healthy individuals. Celiac could be a cause of it, as can other diseases/illnesses.

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Guest Doll
What data is this & where is it available? I'm not trying to be argumentative ... I would be interested in looking at it. I didn't have the Enterolab testing until I had a positive response to the diet. Doing the test was more a matter of getting support for sticking to the diet in light of skeptical family members. I know my dear hubby thought my positive response to going gluten-free was all in my head until I could show him the test results. I am interested in seeing what happens to my scores after a full year when I retest.

I have wondered about the accuracy of the soy & yeast tests personally, since I've never noticed much of a reaction (to yeast, never; to soy, well ... at first I seemed to have some reaction if I messed up -- six months into the diet, I seem to be able to tolerate small amounts).

Of course, I would be interested in knowing how one can tell what IS false. Wouldn't you have to have some other means of testing that you know is accurate? It seems to me I've read lots of people on this forum who have had false results from blood work & endoscopies as well (or results they feel are false anyway :D )

I've already posted links and articles on this topic on other threads. Search them if you like. You can also search for articles on Pub Med and other medical journals.

The problem with Enterolab is that a lot of people who *don't* have Celiac also test positive, including perfectly healthy people. To some extent, almost everyone can test positive for stool antibodies to anything at some point. When we eat foreign substances (food) we create antibodies that often show up in stool. If they show up in the blood, that is a big problem.

I have to question stool testing. Paying $200-300 for a test that *may* be no more accurate than flipping a coin to determine if you have "gluten sensitivity" or not is not worth it in my opinion. If you want to go gluten-free, fine, but I would not suggest paying money for stool testing. Dr. Fine also makes some unproven (and unpublished) claims that make me wonder about his motives to sell his books and tests.

Here's the other thing...even if someone *does* have a "sensitivity" to corn, etc. for example, so what? Dr. Fine tests for things that have never been proven to cause anything unless you have an actual allergy. Yeast may cause a problem if you have the genetics for Crohn's (yet unproven 100% yet), but not many people even have the genes for that disease.

Granted there are *some* false negatives with "convential testing". However, EMA testing picks up almost 100% of active Celiac cases. Testing for total IgA detects false neagtives due to IgA deficiencies. A proper biopsy can pick up the vast majority of cases. The reason why many on this board don't show up with regular testing is because they *likely* *don't actually have Celiac*. People can respond to the gluten-free diet and not have Celiac Disease.

All I am saying is that you don't need to spend money to know if you have some kind of "food intolerance" (i.e. not Celiac or an allergy). If you know a food makes you sick, and all of your medical tests are normal, stop eating that food!

Just my pet peeve, I would hate to see families spending food money on stool testing that may be a complete waste of time. :(

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I've already posted links and articles on this topic on other threads. Search them if you like. You can also search for articles on Pub Med and other medical journals.

The problem with Enterolab is that a lot of people who *don't* have Celiac also test positive, including perfectly healthy people. To some extent, almost everyone can test positive for stool antibodies to anything at some point. When we eat foreign substances (food) we create antibodies that often show up in stool. If they show up in the blood, that is a big problem.

I have to question stool testing. Paying $200-300 for a test that *may* be no more accurate than flipping a coin to determine if you have "gluten sensitivity" or not is not worth it in my opinion. If you want to go gluten-free, fine, but I would not suggest paying money for stool testing. Dr. Fine also makes some unproven (and unpublished) claims that make me wonder about his motives to sell his books and tests.

Here's the other thing...even if someone *does* have a "sensitivity" to corn, etc. for example, so what? Dr. Fine tests for things that have never been proven to cause anything unless you have an actual allergy. Yeast may cause a problem if you have the genetics for Crohn's (yet unproven 100% yet), but not many people even have the genes for that disease.

Granted there are *some* false negatives with "convential testing". However, EMA testing picks up almost 100% of active Celiac cases. Testing for total IgA detects false neagtives due to IgA deficiencies. A proper biopsy can pick up the vast majority of cases. The reason why many on this board don't show up with regular testing is because they *likely* *don't actually have Celiac*. People can respond to the gluten-free diet and not have Celiac Disease.

All I am saying is that you don't need to spend money to know if you have some kind of "food intolerance" (i.e. not Celiac or an allergy). If you know a food makes you sick, and all of your medical tests are normal, stop eating that food!

Just my pet peeve, I would hate to see families spending food money on stool testing that may be a complete waste of time. :(

I may be missing something, but I just spent a great deal of time skimming through your posts. I saw one reference to a study I had previously seen. It says that the stool tests gave positive results for folks who weren't officially celiac. Well, that really begs the question doesn't it? Dr. Fine doesn't claim that any of his tests diagnose celiac disease. What I didn't see in your previous posts is how positive stool tests are for "perfectly healthy people." They are just people who are not diagnosable in the traditional way as celiac. If one accepts that gluten can be causing problems before damaged villi can be seen or can cause problems other than to villi -- in other words, things that mean folks are NOT perfectly healthy but are not celiac -- then the study means very little.

Is it your position that if someone cannot be diagnosed as celiac then by definition they do not have a problem with gluten and are "perfectly healthy?"

You say: "To some extent, almost everyone can test positive for stool antibodies to anything at some point. When we eat foreign substances (food) we create antibodies that often show up in stool." This is the first time I've seen this. Please elaborate. I have tried researching on Pub Med BTW ... the only thing I've ever found is the study already discussed.

I agree I would like to see this stuff get peer reviewed and published. Unfortunately in the real world one must sometimes act on less than perfect information.

From what I can tell, there are far more wasted resources from doctors not running all the necessary blood tests, taking enough biopsies, running these tests after gluten-free diets have been followed (and so are invalid), refusing to do celiac testing, etc.

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Hi there,

I have been having intestinal problems now for about 6 months. I am a 28 year old male who has not had any medical problems up to this point. My guts have been constantly grumbling and growling consistently over that time. In the first couple months I had these symptoms I lost about 15 pounds. I also have not had a normal bowel movement since it began. I rarely get dirahea but do go to the bathroom 4-5 times a day. The stool is constantly a very light brown and quite often floats and smells really bad. It is also rarely in solid form but most of the time is I guess what you would call soft. I seems to all go in one pile. Sorry for being so graphic ;). I also seem to get really gassy quiet often. I also occasionally get a dull pain in the upper right area of my abdomen that seems to last for about 2 days and then goes away. I have had stool samples, upper GI, barium enema, and have had numerous blood test including a anti-glutaminase blood test that have all come back negative. I do have an appointment with a GI specialist coming up at the end of October. I really don't have any other symptoms except maybe feel a little fatigued when my bowels are really grumbling.

Of all the bowel conditions I have read about it seems that Celiac disease seems to be the condition that fits most. I have read about candida and wondering if it could also be that. I have read that most doctors believe that candida cannot occur in healthy individuals. What are other people's view on Candida here and do think it could happen in healthy individuals?

I am also wondering if I should change my diet to see if that helps. Should I go gluten free? Lactose free? Yeast free? or all the above?

Anyways thanks for reading and for any advice.

Thanks,

renik

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Hi Renik,

The description you gave sounds just like what I had (as well as some sever skin reactions) for about a year before I had a blood test and was told to get on the Gluten Free diet.

Since going Gluten Free my bowl movement has improved so much...I must say unless I accidentally gluten myself.

My bowl movement and my skin reactions have become a definite indications of gluten in my system.

Wish you all the best.

God Bless!

MTK

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Hi there,

I have been having intestinal problems now for about 6 months. I am a 28 year old male who has not had any medical problems up to this point. My guts have been constantly grumbling and growling consistently over that time. In the first couple months I had these symptoms I lost about 15 pounds. I also have not had a normal bowel movement since it began. I rarely get dirahea but do go to the bathroom 4-5 times a day. The stool is constantly a very light brown and quite often floats and smells really bad. It is also rarely in solid form but most of the time is I guess what you would call soft. I seems to all go in one pile. Sorry for being so graphic ;). I also seem to get really gassy quiet often. I also occasionally get a dull pain in the upper right area of my abdomen that seems to last for about 2 days and then goes away. I have had stool samples, upper GI, barium enema, and have had numerous blood test including a anti-glutaminase blood test that have all come back negative. I do have an appointment with a GI specialist coming up at the end of October. I really don't have any other symptoms except maybe feel a little fatigued when my bowels are really grumbling.

Of all the bowel conditions I have read about it seems that Celiac disease seems to be the condition that fits most. I have read about candida and wondering if it could also be that. I have read that most doctors believe that candida cannot occur in healthy individuals. What are other people's view on Candida here and do think it could happen in healthy individuals?

I am also wondering if I should change my diet to see if that helps. Should I go gluten free? Lactose free? Yeast free? or all the above?

Anyways thanks for reading and for any advice.

Thanks,

renik

There is another possiblity. Have you consider the bacteria Hilobacter pylori. It means the bacter that cause fire. Some time ago it was found in all case where ulcers were found. The treatment is harsh. I had it; but didn't have an ulcer. It was the reason why my eendocsopy was inconclusive for Celiac. There is a blood test for it and it should show with an endoscope. It is very painful. Can't tell you about hard stools as wheat will cause hard stools. Good luck with finding the cause.

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Hey all,

Well I just got back from my GI appointment. I do feel as though they took me seriously. The GI specialist thinks it could be either IBS, Celiac, or Inflammatory disease. The first blood test that I had back in July, the Anti-Tissue Transglutiminase, was negative. They are still going to run the full panel on me though. They are also going to test my blood for quite a few other things. I can't remember everything they are testing for but they had like 15 different test marked down. They ended up taking 4 vials of blood. They also performed the sweat test which i guess is for CF.

I am also scheduled to get a "25 gram D-Xylose Hydrogen Breath Test" on November 20. Not sure what this is for though. They are also doing 2 more stool samples on me. My next GI appointment is on Dec. 21. Overall I am pleased with all the test they are performing. Hopefully we'll find out what is going on. He did say if everything is negative he would want a colonoscopy to check for Chrons.

He did ask one interesting question. He asked what my ancestry was and I said Scottish & Irish. He told me that people with Scottish ancestry are more prone for Celiac. I never heard this before and found it interesting.

Anyways just wanted to say I check this site out frequently and thank everyone for all the info.

renik

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