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mm54

Anyone Else Reacting To Gluten Fed Poultry (and Eggs) And Fish

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I have DH and was diagnosed three years ago. About a year ago, I started to have the typical DH rash almost every time I ate rice, even with brands clearly labeled "gluten free". At the end I was ordering special exotic rices from Bangladesh and other places and I was not reacting to these, but I eventually decided to eliminate even those - too much hassle and it seemed like a crapshoot every time I ate rice.

About six months later, I started to have the DH reaction most of the time when I ate chicken, which I had carefully prepared........not a spec of gluten in my home. So I went to the butcher and inquired about breading or stuffing in the back room where they package the stuff. Yes, they do breading. So he was super nice and used special latex or rubber gloves when he handled my order, and my chicken never touched the countertop. However, I still broke out. I called the chicken production/slaughter plant and the customer service lady told me there was not any gluten in their plant whatsoever! So then I spoke with the butcher again. He suggested perhaps I was reacting to the gluten/grain pellets the chickens are fed. He told me poultry do not have stomaches, but rather gizzards............that grind up their food. Being still skeptical, I tried all kinds of chicken from other grocers, and I broke out every time. I tried turkey and even ostrich! (Like eating a cardboard box.) Anyway, he was right. I reacted every time. At the same time I was reacting to some fish. After carefully scrutinizing the problem there, my local fish store told me the fish I was having problems with were all pond fed.........pellets again!

I started to wonder why I was still able to tolerate eggs...............until about a month ago and started breaking out every time I ate eggs, so I've eliminated eggs. The diet I'm on now is super restrictive, but I think it is probably quite healthy. Pretty simple fare - beef, pork, lamb, elk, buffalo, and wild fish, some legumes, lots of veggies, salads, fruit, and nuts. Even with nuts, I have to be exquisitely careful with the brands I buy. Many are contaminated.

Seems as though my sensitivities to gluten are way off the charts. Anyone else experience this problem?

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I had been told (and found it to be true) that while you are suffering a DH breakout, you are hypersensitive to IODINE - mostly from table salt and salt injected and included in foods, including fresh foods. I bought table salt without iodine, and was very careful about the foods known to be high in iodine (fish, especially). I believe that poultry can have added salt and definitely ham and pork do.

You might be adding salt to eggs and the other things you are unexpectedly reacting to.

Once my DH had completely gone away, I became less and less sensitive to iodine and eventually became back to normal. When I get accidentally glutened and breakout (now much less frequently), I have to go back to avoiding table salt, restaurant food, and frozen food, hams, poultry etc until the rash goes away.

One of the old fashioned tests for DH was to put an iodine patch on your skin and if you broke out it was considered DH!!

You may want to try that before you go completely crazy with eliminating so many foods. Eventually that can become unhealthy and may not cure the problem!

Good luck.


Franceen

Diagnosed DH by Allergist via gluten-free Diet Success

Gluten-free since Dec 2005

Gluten-free works so why keep getting tests?

Neg skin biopsy & Neg bloodwork after gluten-free for 3 months

No Endoscopy - need to eat gluten for good test & won't do it

No other Allergies or major ailments!

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nope, never had an issue with grain fed animals. the protein is broken down and isn't something that can be really put into the flesh of an animal without changing it to an animal protein. such is metabolism. :)

but franceen is right - the DH reaction in the skin is mediated by iodine, so - even without eating gluten - until you are well and completely past healed, taking in much in the way of iodine will exacerbate DH symptoms. that means not just iodine enriched table salt, but also sea vegetables (like nori in sushi), fish, shrimp, potato, turkey, beans, milk, and egg.


Tiffany aka "Have I Mentioned Chocolate Lately?"

Inconclusive Blood Tests, Positive Dietary Results, No Endoscopy

G.F. - September 2003; C.F. - July 2004

Hiker, Yoga Teacher, Engineer, Painter, Be-er of Me

Bellevue, WA

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I had been told (and found it to be true) that while you are suffering a DH breakout, you are hypersensitive to IODINE - mostly from table salt and salt injected and included in foods, including fresh foods. I bought table salt without iodine, and was very careful about the foods known to be high in iodine (fish, especially). I believe that poultry can have added salt and definitely ham and pork do.

You might be adding salt to eggs and the other things you are unexpectedly reacting to.

Once my DH had completely gone away, I became less and less sensitive to iodine and eventually became back to normal. When I get accidentally glutened and breakout (now much less frequently), I have to go back to avoiding table salt, restaurant food, and frozen food, hams, poultry etc until the rash goes away.

One of the old fashioned tests for DH was to put an iodine patch on your skin and if you broke out it was considered DH!!

You may want to try that before you go completely crazy with eliminating so many foods. Eventually that can become unhealthy and may not cure the problem!

Good luck.

I had not heard about the issue with iodine in relationship to DH. If it is iodine that is exacerbating the problem, why is it I have never had a breakout with wild fish? I have a freezer full of wild salmon, orange roughy, tuna, and halibut. I eat these several times a week and I do not have any DH reactions with any of these. Certainly they have just as much, if not more iodine, than farm-raised fish.

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"I had not heard about the issue with iodine in relationship to DH. If it is iodine that is exacerbating the problem, why is it I have never had a breakout with wild fish? I have a freezer full of wild salmon, orange roughy, tuna, and halibut. I eat these several times a week and I do not have any DH reactions with any of these. Certainly they have just as much, if not more iodine, than farm-raised fish."

The issue may not be the fish itself but the way it is processed. If they use salted water in the processing of the farm raised fish that may explain it.

To completely clear my DH I had to eliminate iodine from everything for a while, even my vitamin. I also had to be really really strict about CC as even the tiniest amount would cause an outbreak for the first couple of years gluten-free. It takes up to 2 years for the antibodies to leave the skin. After that I found I was able to tolerate a bit more iodine and added the vitamin back in but I still use uniodized salt.


Courage does not always roar, sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying

"I will try again tommorrow" (Mary Anne Radmacher)

Diagnosed by Allergist with elimination diet and diagnosis confirmed by GI in 2002

Misdiagnoses for 15 years were IBS-D, ataxia, migraines, anxiety, depression, fibromyalgia, parathesias, arthritis, livedo reticularis, hairloss, premature menopause, osteoporosis, kidney damage, diverticulosis, prediabetes and ulcers, dermatitis herpeformis

All bold resoved or went into remission in time with proper diagnosis of Celiac November 2002

 Gene Test Aug 2007

HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 1 0303

HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 2 0303

Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 3,3 (Subtype 9,9)

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Several things come to mind here:

DH takes a VERY long time to completely clear up - even 100% Gluten Free and with much reduced Iodine in diet.

Also, the typical reaction to Gluten with DH is very delayed, especially in the beginning. That made it very hard, and sometimes impossible to determine what it was that caused the outbreak. Over the first two years of gluten-free and the first year of reduced iodine, the reaction time very gradually reduced to about 3 days.

Now a couple of years into gluten-free (very strict) and still using uniodized table salt, my DH still takes 1 - 3 days to show up - but now I am also getting a much quicker intestinal reaction! (Gas, grumbling, bloat within hours of eating the gluten and if a bad glutening - diarhea for about 1 day).

I still can only guess at what the source was though.

I no longer avoid high-iodine foods - I eat "lox" (Salmon) for breakfast nearly every day and lots of other fish, but I use un-iodized salt and still watch the vitamin iodine content (there is SOME, but I buy the vitamin with less).

The iodine connection to DH is well documented and understood by the medical community - and really does exist. I just think that people's levels of iodine intake vary very greatly (many people eat NO fish at all and that is a significant source).

Trying to reduce iodine (never never eliminate it 100% - thryroid problems will ensue!), might be a good way to tell if it is a potential source for you.


Franceen

Diagnosed DH by Allergist via gluten-free Diet Success

Gluten-free since Dec 2005

Gluten-free works so why keep getting tests?

Neg skin biopsy & Neg bloodwork after gluten-free for 3 months

No Endoscopy - need to eat gluten for good test & won't do it

No other Allergies or major ailments!

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Several things come to mind here:

DH takes a VERY long time to completely clear up - even 100% Gluten Free and with much reduced Iodine in diet.

Also, the typical reaction to Gluten with DH is very delayed, especially in the beginning. That made it very hard, and sometimes impossible to determine what it was that caused the outbreak. Over the first two years of gluten-free and the first year of reduced iodine, the reaction time very gradually reduced to about 3 days.

Now a couple of years into gluten-free (very strict) and still using uniodized table salt, my DH still takes 1 - 3 days to show up - but now I am also getting a much quicker intestinal reaction! (Gas, grumbling, bloat within hours of eating the gluten and if a bad glutening - diarhea for about 1 day).

I still can only guess at what the source was though.

I no longer avoid high-iodine foods - I eat "lox" (Salmon) for breakfast nearly every day and lots of other fish, but I use un-iodized salt and still watch the vitamin iodine content (there is SOME, but I buy the vitamin with less).

The iodine connection to DH is well documented and understood by the medical community - and really does exist. I just think that people's levels of iodine intake vary very greatly (many people eat NO fish at all and that is a significant source).

Trying to reduce iodine (never never eliminate it 100% - thryroid problems will ensue!), might be a good way to tell if it is a potential source for you.

Before being diagnosed with DH, I did not use salt in cooking for nearly 20 years, because I thought it was the healthy thing to do! And into the first year after being diagnosed with DH, still no salt. So I have a hard time believing iodine was a contributing or exacerbating issue to developing DH for me personally. I use a little salt now, but not much. I appreciate your input, but it really doesn't jive with my experiences. When I first caught on, breakouts would appear about 1/2 - 1 hour after eating a questionable meal (dining away from home usually or trying some new product at home) not days and days, not even remotely. I rarely have problems now, I go for months without a problem. The first year of going gluten free, I was having breakouts all the time because I really didn't understand all the sources of gluten that were causing me problems. Once I developed a better understanding and became more assertive in my inquiries, I had far fewer problems. When I do break out now, it generally takes about an hour to several hours and I know what it is because I was not completely sure I was safe - dining out, etc. You are right about the thyroid issue, am dealing with this problem presently. I think going without salt for so long didn't help a bit.

I have already asked about the chicken being plumped up (injected) because my butcher told me with turkey they are generally injected with a filler, that often includes water, some gluten, and salt. I haven't been able to eat turkey for a couple of years because of this. He told me the brand of chicken I was purchasing was not injected or treated - it's all organic, etc. I even spoke with the butchering and processing plant and they assured me there's nothing added.

My doctor has told me on many occasions that every body is unique. What is true for you is not necessarily true for me, and the other way around as well. I have been researching the thyroid condition I have, and I think it may have made me super super sensitive in the past two years. My chemical sensitivites and allergies have also gone through the roof, in addition to becoming super super sensitive to gluten. Alot of products that say "gluten-free" have proven not to be, atleast not in the low enough range for my body to tolerate. Anyway, thanks for the comments. I wish it was as easy as cutting down on salt.

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