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Tom,

Nothing that you posted is "new" info....

It does, however point out that a respected university agrees that Glutenease makes false marketing claims.

How many times has that been reiterated in this thread already??

How many MORE times is it gonna have to be stated??

GLUTENEASE IS NOT A TREATMENT FOR CELIAC DISEASE.....and it doesnt *claim* to be.

Probably about as many times as "for non-Celiacs, this product may be perfectly fine" has had to be.

I've recently found that Enzymedica DID claim, straight-out, that GlutenEase could treat Celiac, right up until April of this year. They have since added the statement, "GlutenEase is not formulated to prevent celiac symptoms" to the top of the webpage.

They have not, however, bothered to remove the description of Celiac Disease that is under "Causes of Gluten Intolerance."

Hey, if they want to market to non-Celiacs alone, they could be doing it quite effectively. Instead, they are fooling around with people's health and lives.

This would not be a hard thing to fix. Why haven't they? Why didn't they, when they admitted that it's not a treatment for Celiac, and added their CYA statement?

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This is under the heading, "Cause of Gluten Intolerance." It doesn't explain any cause of gluten intolerance. It describes Celiac Disease. Does this make sense to anyone? Honestly? What exactly are they attempting to say here?

This has already been posted and discussed...more than once.

YES....they DO state a cause for gluten intolerance...an inability to digest gluten IS a cause for gluten intolerance. This has already been hashed over...

You can go back several pages and we had this exact same discussion...you asked the same question....and I answered it.

Some people CANNOT digest gluten and it has nothing to do with Celiac Disease....and that in ITSELF is a *cause* for gluten intolerance. When I read that paragraph....that was my interpretation.

With the statement that the enzymes are not a treatment for Celiac....I understood what they were saying.

If someone else cant make sense of that.....or if they read it and say "Oh...they are saying that this does NOT treat Celiac Disease....so that *must* mean that it actually DOES treat Celiac!!"....well I just dont know what to say about that....except for that person isnt very bright. :huh:

I cant possibly worry myself over every stupid thing that people do in this world.

I dont wish to rehash the wording on their site anymore. Whoever is bothered by it should let Enzymedica know.....if people arent expresssing their concerns what reason would they have to make changes??

Alot of assumptions are being made regarding "motives" and "deception"....with no evidence that this is indeed the case.

Personally, I dont think that changing the wording is gonna *save* a huge amount of Celiacs...because I think the majority of them are smart enough to know that they cant eat gluten.

I also think the majority of them who might view that site know how to read and can make sense of this...

This new formula supports people suffering with gluten or casein intolerance. GlutenEase is not formulated to prevent celiac symptoms.

I'm sorry but it doesn't seem misleading to me. It seems pretty clear.

So yeah...as far as I'm concerned this horse is totally dead.

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I wonder though? When U of Chicago says Glutenese has absolutely no merit , it makes me wonder HOW they tested it. Were they trying to neutralize the gluten in a whole slice of bread with a couple of capsules of Glutenease? I'm trying to see a ratio of gluten to enzyme. My interest in any product of this type isn't to be able to eat a slice of bread or a doughnut or whatever. I have no desire to eat ANY gluten, but through cross contamination, it may only take a few molecules of gluten to cause a reaction. Does anyone know for sure that DPP-IV enzymes don't have enough strength to break an extremely small amount that could be accidentally ingested due to cross contamination? Did they test the enzymes on that small of a ratio? This is probably not a question that can not be answered, but it makes me wonder if they tested it with cross contamination in mind or were they testing to see if it would allow a person to purpously eat gluten.

U.Z....these are all very good points.

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yeaaaa.....I guess I'm not totally convinced that 'gluten intolerance' isn't also an autoimmune response. We just don't have sufficient tests available to be able to say that one way or the other.

As of right now....we dont have any evidence of it.

If I research the enzymes and find that BY FAR these enzymes do seem to be helping people....I'm gonna pay attention to that.

When I ask my doctors what their experience is with enzymes and they tell me that they are extremely helpful in healing the gut as well as reducing food reactions....I'm gonna pay attention to that.

When I read about other people's experiences with enzymes and find that they are noticing big improvements while taking them...I'm gonna pay attention to that too.

When posters such as UncleZack, Linda, and others who have participated in this thread share their experience and say that they FEEL BETTER...or that their quality of life is IMPROVED because they take enzymes...I'm TOTALLY paying attention!

I think like everyone else...I just want to FEEL BETTER.

I'm not going to be worrying about "possible" autoimmune stuff if its apparant that my body is HEALING...and if I'm feeling alot better.

I dont have Celiac and I guess if my health is improving...rather than declining...I'm going to take that as a good sign. :)

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This has already been posted and discussed...more than once.

YES....they DO state a cause for gluten intolerance...an inability to digest gluten IS a cause for gluten intolerance. This has already been hashed over...

It seems like you're referring to something other than the paragraph I quoted.

You can go back several pages and we had this exact same discussion...you asked the same question....and I answered it.

Some people CANNOT digest gluten and it has nothing to do with Celiac Disease....and that in ITSELF is a *cause* for gluten intolerance. When I read that paragraph....that was my interpretation.

This is the paragraph I quoted: "Gluten exhibits a unique amino acid sequence which creates inflammation and a flattening of the villi of our intestinal tract. The villi provide the intestine with the ability to absorb nutrients from the foods we eat, thus damaged villi can lead to responses such as malabsorption, nutrient deficiencies or other digestive disorders." So... this has nothing to do with Celiac Disease?

I just want to be clear here... since THAT was the paragraph I quoted in the post that you took my quote from.

If someone else cant make sense of that.....or if they read it and say "Oh...they are saying that this does NOT treat Celiac Disease....so that *must* mean that it actually DOES treat Celiac!!"....well I just dont know what to say about that....except for that person isnt very bright. :huh:

I cant possibly worry myself over every stupid thing that people do in this world.

A person doesn't have to be "stupid" to be confused over contradictory statements.

I dont wish to rehash the wording on their site anymore. Whoever is bothered by it should let Enzymedica know.....if people arent expresssing their concerns what reason would they have to make changes??

I have, and hope to receive a response soon. I encourage everyone else who is bothered by this to do the same. If you're not bothered by it, well that's your prerogative.

This new formula supports people suffering with gluten or casein intolerance. GlutenEase is not formulated to prevent celiac symptoms.

I'm sorry but it doesn't seem misleading to me. It seems pretty clear.

I would possibly agree, if I completely ignored other things stated on the same page.

Rachel... I'm sincerely confused about one thing. When I first quoted the above paragraph, several pages ago, even you admitted that it was worrisome. What made you change your mind and decide it didn't matter?

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Rachel... I'm sincerely confused about one thing. When I first quoted the above paragraph, several pages ago, even you admitted that it was worrisome. What made you change your mind and decide it didn't matter?

Sarah,

I havent changed my mind. I said that the words "flattening of the villi" can be misleading. That was the only part that bothered me....nothing else.

From my own understanding of Non-Celiac gluten intolerance I find everything on the page to be true. However, I said that "flattening of the villi" is more specific to Celiac Disease....if we're talking about gluten intolerance.

Several pages back I said that if we want that to change we should do something to let the company know....and I just repeated that same statement today. I havent changed my mind about anything.

I never agreed that they are intentionally misleading people, I never agreed that they are targeting Celiac's....I never agreed with anything else that you are saying with regards to their "marketing" or their "motives". I never agreed that this is "false advertisement" directed at person's with Celiac Disease.

I think that you are making assumptions as far as all of that...and I dont see any point in disecting each paragraph on the page (again)...we've already done that.

Like I said before....if you're looking at this from the perspective that most gluten intolerance is Celiac Disease...and if all you've ever really researched is Celiac...you're going to look at this as if its marketed toward the Celiac population.

You've already stated that you believe that most gluten intolerance is Celiac.

I dont agree with that and I stated that I believe that the larger percentage of people with gluten intolerance do not actually have Celiac Disease. The incidence of Celiac is about 1 in 133...according to the study I posted earlier. The incidence of non celiac gluten intolerance is MUCH higher than that.

I'm looking at the info. on Enzymedica's page from the perspective of a non-celiac....and I dont find it to be as misleading as you make it out to be. But thats because I've spent alot of time researching non-celiac gluten intolerance...and food intolerance in general.

Also, "flattening of the villi" is not found exclusively in those with Celiac....there are other things that can cause that....although it is less common.

https://www.celiac.com/articles/50/1/Main-C...illi/Page1.html

Coeliac Disease

Cows Milk Protein Intolerance

Soy Protein Intolerance

refractory Sprue

Collagenous Sprue

Immunodefiency Synodromes

Mediterranean lymphoma

intestinal ulceration

Gastroenteritis

Intractable Diarrhoea of Infancy

Protein Calorie Malnutrition

Kwashiorkor

Tropical Sprue

Parasitic Disease:

Giardiasis

Strongyloidiasis

Coccidiosis

Intestinal Capillariasis

Hookworm Disease

Eosinophilic Gastroenteritis

Contaminated bowel Syndrome

Drug and Radiation Damage

Alot of things can cause villi damage. As I stated earlier....I come across those words frequently when researching topics having nothing to do with Celiac Disease.

The *only* reason I'm saying that Enzymedica's use of those words can be misleading is because they are referring to gluten intolerance...and if gluten is the *cause* of the flattened villi...that would be considered Celiac Disease.

If I were noticing alot of people being harmed by this product...or misusing this product...or stating that they "treat" their Celiac with this product....I would probably be showing more concern. So far I've only ever seen reports from people who use the product responsibly and are benefiting from it.

None of my opinions have changed. I still feel that even if the wording on the site is *never* changed....most people are intelligent enough to understand the first statements made on the page. That is that the enzymes are for gluten intolerance and casein intolerance...and not a treatment for Celiac Disease.

Something tells me that unless Enzymedica repeats that same sentence ALL OVER the entire page...and ALL OVER the bottle itself...you will still consider it to be "dangerous". In my opinion its not reasonable.

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U.Z....these are all very good points.

Thanks Rachel,

I'm leading up to a point, so please bear with me on this.

I know that once a celiac, always a celiac, but there are different degrees of the disease. A person may be in early stages or later stages. In my experience, I was in the later stages at around 51 years old. By looking backwards and connecting the dots, I remember that besides the digestive tract problems and trouble digesting lactose, I was having trouble concentrating, I was spacey feeling (felt like my head was full of cotton at times) I was extremely anxious, had a lot of problems with dermatitis, kidney pain and urinary tract infections, which my doctor told me was uncommon for a heterosexual male, but didn't have any help for me other than prescribing antibiotics. I was hungry all of the time and craved fatty, sugary and starchy foods. I didn't lose weight as some people do. I gained weight slowly. My body was still absorbing enough fat and sugar to gain weight. Some people with celiac disease gain weight and some lose weight. Knowing what I know now, and my doctors couldn't tell me then.....I had flattened villi and leaky gut. Symptoms of celiac disease.

Shortly after my 52nd birthday, I went gluten free. Over the last 5+ years, there have been a lot of positive changes. A gluten free diet saved my life! I haven't had a urinary infection for over 3 years. I got my weight under control, the dermatitis on my shins has totally disappeared, my head is clear again and I can tolerate some lactose. I am currently successfully working on controlling my anxieties.

What I am leading up to is that through a gluten free diet, my villi have begun to function again (blood sugar levels are normal and I'm not starving) and the leaky gut has healed (no more urinary infection and kidney pain due to larger particles passing through the intestinal wall).

I can't look inside of my intestines, but I know by the way I feel that I am in a lot better condition than I was 6 years ago. I can imagine that my intestinal wall must have looked like raw hamburger then.

My intestines will never be the same as someone who doesn't have the disease, but they (through proper diet) will never be in the condition they were in then either.

If I started eating gluten again, I would be back where I was 6 years ago, but I don't eat gluten intentionally and the only risk of getting gluten is on the occasions that we eat in a restaurant. No matter how careful a person is about explaining to the restaurant staff, it is very likely that the waiter or waitress or cook has handled gluten prior to touching your dinner plate. The same goes for the bus person who set up the table and handled your water glass and silverware. And who knows what goes on in the kitchen behind closed doors? We don't have a restaurant with a dedicated gluten free menu in our area, but we have been to several when we were on vacations.

If I eat in a restaurant, yes, I am putting myself at risk or consuming gluten through cross contamination. I am well aware of the risks. Taking an enzyme to combat these possible very small amounts of gluten helps me to have no or very little reaction. I will not argue with some of the others that this "could" be allowing "some" short term damage to occur, but the enzymes usually keep me symptom free and after several years of resuming an occasional meal away from home, I have never felt sick as long as I take my enzymes.

Before my gut had a chance to heal, eating out and chancing any cross contamination was not an option. I tried it a few times and it wasn't worth the risk. I don't feel as if I am playing Russian Roulette with my health by eating out occasionally at this point. I am symptomatic, and if I get a reaction, I definitely know it. My digestion is now working well enough that I only take enzymes if I am in a situation where I think I may get cross contamination. Rare, but I have been glutened by packaged products that were once safe, but changed without notice. At these times, without enzymes, I got pretty sick.

I think the question, "Are enzymes safe for celiacs?" has to be answered by each person on an individual basis. I feel that my gut has healed about as much as it ever will and if the enzymes keep me from having a reaction to accidental cross contamination and they stop ANY amount of damage, I am doing myself more good than harm. That's me. You have to decide what is best for you. Listen to your body. It will tell you a lot if you listen to it!

To everyone on the board:

We are all here because we have a common disease. We are all seeking the same destination, even though we may be taking different paths. Hopefully, we will all get well and stay well by staying as gluten free as possible. I know this is a bit off topic, but I believe it is extremely important. I urge all of you to consider the source of the packaged products you are consuming. Write, email or phone manufacturers as to whether their products may be safe or contaminated. They will answer you and they will tell you the truth. I know this for a fact. I got sick from many products that I assumed were gluten free because the label did not state there was risk of cross contamination. I started contacting the manufacturers before I bought their products. You can find a lot of information on forums about manufacturers, but a lot of what you find will be old posts. Manufacturing processes change frequently, so going direct to the manufacturer will give you the most up to date information. If you can stay gluten free and your digestion is working well, you probably won't need enzymes.

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I agree completely unclezack. Are you a Celiac? or Gluten Sensitive? I, personally, do NOT see the harm either way if you take Glutenease to protect or prevent damage/suffering from possible CC. In fact, personally, and I'll get hung for this, I think everyone should. Why not?

Actually you stated that you take a different combination, do you mind my asking which one/ones?

And I believe that in everything I read about Celiac/Gluten Sensitivity, it's the folks who are asymptomatic who wind up with cancer, that is how the disease presents in them. I am NOT Celiac, but terribly sensitive to gluten. I had all of your symptoms except the UTI's and the skin problems, the fatigue TREMENDOUS and OVERWHELMING....life limiting, thank God I don't have that anymore. So I was very symptomatic, enough to scare me, actually terrify me to think about eating gluten.

But, if my gluten sensitivity was/is caused by something else that damaged my gut, like SOY, my test also revealed a sensitivity to soy, I considered myself a healthy person before finding out about gluten making me sick, and as we were taught soy was "good" (it's not) for us, and I ate a lot of it, now I'm wondering if that's what damaged my gut, and set up this whole process of gluten sensitivity. It's the age old question, which came first, the chicken or the egg. Maybe I'll never know, but the point is, if the trigger that caused my problem is removed and my gut completely heals, then maybe I won't be gluten sensitive anymore, just food for thought.

Actually, knowing what I know about gluten, and how unhealthy wheat is for us (for everyone), I don't want to go back to eating it, but it would be nice to know these things, and I think that answers to these questions, can help lots of people if this is possible, it's possible for others as well....NOT Celiac's lest we kill more horses here. Even though, I also strongly suspect that because we are all different, our triggers can be vastly different.

I also suffered from malabsorption and low blood sugars. You mention that that is from the malabsorption, is that right? I didn't know that, I just thought I had low blood sugar from eating too many carbs and wearing out my pancreas. When you talk about kidney pain, I wake up some mornings with an ache in my lower, right posterior rib cage, my mother said that's my gallbladder and it might be, but I wondered if you had that or was it in the flank area?

In my reading I did find out that I am lacking in Lipase, which makes total sense because malabsorption is an indicator of the body not breaking down fats...so I am taking Lipase and I do notice a positive difference. Mainly that ache is going away in my right side, and I don't have the indigestion when I eat fats.

I am so much better, no more space cadet, fatigue, bloating, fluid retention, low blood sugar is still a problem if I go too long between meals, or obviously if I eat sugar, but so much better. I am taking the enzymes at every meal...they definitely help...thanks, Linda

Rachel, I also agree with everything you said. Thanks for posting that list of possible causes for a leaky gut, Now I'm wondering if Soy was the trigger for mine. I have another question about the allergy testing. Enterolab said I'm sensitive to soy, and I since had some bloodwork done which came back negative for Soy, they used Quest Diagnostics. What do you think of that? I don't know what to think now.

I won't eat Soy anyway because it's so bad for you, and most of it is GMO, etc. but I would like to know...thanks, :)

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Also, "flattening of the villi" is not found exclusively in those with Celiac....there are other things that can cause that....although it is less common.

Yeah, A LOT less common. While there are other causes, they are VERY rare, especially comparatively speaking.

The *only* reason I'm saying that Enzymedica's use of those words can be misleading is because they are referring to gluten intolerance...and if gluten is the *cause* of the flattened villi...that would be considered Celiac Disease.

Just that *one* reason is pretty darn key. Why dismiss it as unimportant, just because you don't have a problem with the rest?

If I were noticing alot of people being harmed by this product...or misusing this product...or stating that they "treat" their Celiac with this product....I would probably be showing more concern. So far I've only ever seen reports from people who use the product responsibly and are benefiting from it.

If you're not concerned, again, that's your prerogative. I personally don't need "hurt people" lined up in front of me to recognize that they're probably out there.

Something tells me that unless Enzymedica repeats that same sentence ALL OVER the entire page...and ALL OVER the bottle itself...you will still consider it to be "dangerous".

Not necessarily.

I agree completely unclezack. Are you a Celiac? or Gluten Sensitive? I, personally, do NOT see the harm either way if you take Glutenease to protect or prevent damage/suffering from possible CC. In fact, personally, and I'll get hung for this, I think everyone should. Why not?

Because there is no evidence that GlutenEase or any other enzyme prevents or reduces the autoimmune response, and thus physical damage, in a person with Celiac Disease.

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I agree completely unclezack. Are you a Celiac? or Gluten Sensitive? I, personally, do NOT see the harm either way if you take Glutenease to protect or prevent damage/suffering from possible CC. In fact, personally, and I'll get hung for this, I think everyone should. Why not?

Actually you stated that you take a different combination, do you mind my asking which one/ones?

And I believe that in everything I read about Celiac/Gluten Sensitivity, it's the folks who are asymptomatic who wind up with cancer, that is how the disease presents in them. I am NOT Celiac, but terribly sensitive to gluten. I had all of your symptoms except the UTI's and the skin problems, the fatigue TREMENDOUS and OVERWHELMING....life limiting, thank God I don't have that anymore. So I was very symptomatic, enough to scare me, actually terrify me to think about eating gluten.

But, if my gluten sensitivity was/is caused by something else that damaged my gut, like SOY, my test also revealed a sensitivity to soy, I considered myself a healthy person before finding out about gluten making me sick, and as we were taught soy was "good" (it's not) for us, and I ate a lot of it, now I'm wondering if that's what damaged my gut, and set up this whole process of gluten sensitivity. It's the age old question, which came first, the chicken or the egg. Maybe I'll never know, but the point is, if the trigger that caused my problem is removed and my gut completely heals, then maybe I won't be gluten sensitive anymore, just food for thought.

Actually, knowing what I know about gluten, and how unhealthy wheat is for us (for everyone), I don't want to go back to eating it, but it would be nice to know these things, and I think that answers to these questions, can help lots of people if this is possible, it's possible for others as well....NOT Celiac's lest we kill more horses here. Even though, I also strongly suspect that because we are all different, our triggers can be vastly different.

I also suffered from malabsorption and low blood sugars. You mention that that is from the malabsorption, is that right? I didn't know that, I just thought I had low blood sugar from eating too many carbs and wearing out my pancreas. When you talk about kidney pain, I wake up some mornings with an ache in my lower, right posterior rib cage, my mother said that's my gallbladder and it might be, but I wondered if you had that or was it in the flank area?

In my reading I did find out that I am lacking in Lipase, which makes total sense because malabsorption is an indicator of the body not breaking down fats...so I am taking Lipase and I do notice a positive difference. Mainly that ache is going away in my right side, and I don't have the indigestion when I eat fats.

I am so much better, no more space cadet, fatigue, bloating, fluid retention, low blood sugar is still a problem if I go too long between meals, or obviously if I eat sugar, but so much better. I am taking the enzymes at every meal...they definitely help...thanks, Linda

Rachel, I also agree with everything you said. Thanks for posting that list of possible causes for a leaky gut, Now I'm wondering if Soy was the trigger for mine. I have another question about the allergy testing. Enterolab said I'm sensitive to soy, and I since had some bloodwork done which came back negative for Soy, they used Quest Diagnostics. What do you think of that? I don't know what to think now.

I won't eat Soy anyway because it's so bad for you, and most of it is GMO, etc. but I would like to know...thanks, :)

Linda,

I started out with a product called Digest. I was having a lot of problems with acid and acid reflux, so I added Acid Soothe. Eventually, more by accident than anything, I had ran out of Digest, but had a full bottle of Acid Soothe so I ended up taking it alone. I found that that product alone was doing the job for me. As I had mentioned way back, the herbalist we deal with gave me a free sample bottle of Glutenease so I could possibly give him some feedback on the product. It came in handy when I accidentally ate a lot of wheat unknowingly. I still carry a few of thin in my pill box, just in case.

As far as the low blood sugar, I have nothing to go on except what has worked for me. I assumed that malabsorption was the cause, but I might get called on that one. I have been taking an amino acid supplement called L-Glutamine since before I found I had problems with gluten. 500 mg a day. My understanding is that it helps the liver to store and release sugars at a more even rate. It also relieves cravings for alcohol. I used to find a lot of comfort in my evening cocktails from my gluten caused problems and gut pains. Alcohol is a quick way to raise your blood sugar. The problem is, a sugar high dumps you quickly and makes you feel worse. Since taking L-Glutamine, I could take or leave alcohol. I have a drink to be sociable, but that's as far as it goes. I also used a product for about two years that contains milk thistle and dandelion. It is said to slowly clean out the ducts in the liver and help it to work more efficiently. I felt that it helped restore some of my lost energy. I haven't taken it for a year or so now. I am going to start taking it again. It is my understanding that the liver does a lot of filtering of foreign matter in the blood and I found it helpful with my season allergies as well as my energy level.

P.S. I am self diagnosed, but the symptoms indicate Celiac Disease.

Jack

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Because there is no evidence that GlutenEase or any other enzyme prevents or reduces the autoimmune response, and thus physical damage, in a person with Celiac Disease.

Sarah...I stand corrected, should not have used the word damage, but otherwise my comment stands, because I meant to say, protect against the symptoms in case of CC, and it did that for me. I don't eat out because of CC...but that was a family occasion and I had to go...:)

BTW I love the name Sarah, I always said if I could have a little girl I'd name her Sarah.

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Linda,

I started out with a product called Digest. I was having a lot of problems with acid and acid reflux, so I added Acid Soothe. Eventually, more by accident than anything, I had ran out of Digest, but had a full bottle of Acid Soothe so I ended up taking it alone. I found that that product alone was doing the job for me. As I had mentioned way back, the herbalist we deal with gave me a free sample bottle of Glutenease so I could possibly give him some feedback on the product. It came in handy when I accidentally ate a lot of wheat unknowingly. I still carry a few of thin in my pill box, just in case.

As far as the low blood sugar, I have nothing to go on except what has worked for me. I assumed that malabsorption was the cause, but I might get called on that one. I have been taking an amino acid supplement called L-Glutamine since before I found I had problems with gluten. 500 mg a day. My understanding is that it helps the liver to store and release sugars at a more even rate. It also relieves cravings for alcohol. I used to find a lot of comfort in my evening cocktails from my gluten caused problems and gut pains. Alcohol is a quick way to raise your blood sugar. The problem is, a sugar high dumps you quickly and makes you feel worse. Since taking L-Glutamine, I could take or leave alcohol. I have a drink to be sociable, but that's as far as it goes. I also used a product for about two years that contains milk thistle and dandelion. It is said to slowly clean out the ducts in the liver and help it to work more efficiently. I felt that it helped restore some of my lost energy. I haven't taken it for a year or so now. I am going to start taking it again. It is my understanding that the liver does a lot of filtering of foreign matter in the blood and I found it helpful with my season allergies as well as my energy level.

P.S. I am self diagnosed, but the symptoms indicate Celiac Disease.

Jack

Thank you Jack, I really appreciate the information, I have both of those enzymes, and just ordered the Digest Gold, the L-Glutamine sounds like something that would benefit me too, I'll read more about it, and perhaps try that and thanks for the reminder on milk thistle and dandelion, I've used them both in the past and think they would definitely be a good idea for now too. Working on the liver is key to good digestion, thanks again, Linda

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Sarah...I stand corrected, should not have used the word damage, but otherwise my comment stands, because I meant to say, protect against the symptoms in case of CC, and it did that for me. I don't eat out because of CC...but that was a family occasion and I had to go...:)

BTW I love the name Sarah, I always said if I could have a little girl I'd name her Sarah.

Thanks. :)

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Thank you Jack, I really appreciate the information, I have both of those enzymes, and just ordered the Digest Gold, the L-Glutamine sounds like something that would benefit me too, I'll read more about it, and perhaps try that and thanks for the reminder on milk thistle and dandelion, I've used them both in the past and think they would definitely be a good idea for now too. Working on the liver is key to good digestion, thanks again, Linda

Linda,

I was hurrying to reply to your post because my lunch break was almost over. You asked about the pain. When I had kidney pain, it went from my lower back at about my belt line and ran up my back 6-12 inches. If it was intense, it would radiate around the belt line to my right and left side. It started coming on from time to time at around age 30. I went to several doctors complaining of back pain, not thinking it could be my kidneys. The doctors examined my spine and said there was nothing wrong with me.

As for the stomach pains, they always started on the left side down low near the sigmoid flexure. I guess it would depend on the size of a person's belly, but my pain was about 6 inches left of and 3 inches below my belly button. It always started out feeling like a gas bubble and then got worse from there. When it got really bad it would hurt on both sides, but never as high up as the gall bladder. At times, the pressure would build up to the point that I felt pressure on my left lung.

Most of my life, I have eaten a higher level of fats than is recommended. This didn't ever seem to bother my gall bladder. The bowel needs a certain amount of fat to eliminate properly. I seemed to need it for energy and if I didn't eat the right amount of fat, I would get constipated. I demanded a lot of beef. If I ate fish or chicken, I would be weak and starving soon after I ate. That no longer is the case. Actually, I'm eating less than I ever have, and I have to work at keeping my weight down. I believe I have regained the ability to absorb nutrients.

I had an EGK 3 years ago and my doctor raved about how healthy and strong my heart is, so I guess in my case, the fats I ate were used by my body as lubrication for my intestines and most of it passed through me rather than damaging my heart.

In the 70's, they used soy as a filler in taco meat and some hamburger meat. It always gave me terrible gas. I read that soy is only good for a person if it has fermented. The only soy I consume is in tamari sauce (soy sauce). It is fermented and doesn't bother me.

Hope this helps,

Jack

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I received a response from Enzymedica. You can read it here.

Looks like they're willing to change the website, to be more clear. Please check out the above link to my other thread, if you're interested.

:)

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Because there is no evidence that GlutenEase or any other enzyme prevents or reduces the autoimmune response, and thus physical damage, in a person with Celiac Disease.

We're talking about cross contamination (CC) here....NOT intentional consumption.

With regards to Celiac's using GlutenEase....we've ONLY been talking about how that might benefit a person who is exposed to small amounts of gluten as a result of cross contamination.

My interpretation of cross contamination (or cc'd as we refer to it) has *always* been that this is something which occurs accidentally. As far as I know people dont purposely CC themselves. Should we be worrying about this now too....that people might think its OK to purposely put a microscopic crumb in their salad?? :unsure:

I think the point we've been trying to make here is WHY would taking enzymes while following a gluten-free diet be harmful to a Celiac?? :huh:

I dont want to go back to the debate about misinformed or reckless people who might decide to eat gluten outright....thats not what we're discussing. We're talking about Celiac's who are serious about following the diet and who also take GlutenEase because it allows them some freedom to eat out once in awhile....without having to suffer for days....if perhaps a crumb ended up in their GLUTEN FREE meal.

Why is this a terrible thing?

Regardless of whether or not the enzymes prevent or reduce the autoimmune response...isnt it better to not be sick for several days because of CC??

I dont think you have to ask UncleZack, Linda or Home_based_mom....I think they've already made it clear that they prefer to NOT get sick. I dont think they're gonna give up their enzymes anytime soon...if ever.

I stand by my earlier statement that less reaction = less damage in a person who is symptomatic. How can it mean anything different for a person who would typically have very strong and undeniable reaction to CC?

Today at work one of my co-workers was complaining (again) about her stomach pains. Yes, I've already told her about Celiac a LONG time ago. She's not proactive at all..... I cant do anything about that.

Anyways, I simply told her to take digestive enzymes...and as usual she ignored me. An hour later she's complaining about the same thing. Again I say "Take enzymes". A young guy who happened to be standing near said "I take enzymes...I take them with EVERY meal...always."

I said "And I bet they help you!"

He said "Yeah....I used to have constant indigestion....and now I never do." :) <---that was him smiling

I agree with Linda...everyone can benefit from them (Celiac or no Celiac). So why not??

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I received a response from Enzymedica. You can read it here.

Looks like they're willing to change the website, to be more clear. Please check out the above link to my other thread, if you're interested.

:)

Sarah....this is AWESOME!

See what can happen when we make our concerns known! WOO-HOO :)

It wasnt even difficult! A single email and a very quick response showing concern, regret for any confusion and an intent to make appropriate changes to the wording in order to protect any Celiac's who may get the wrong impression. What more can you ask for??

AND he even asked for your input as far as making changes to the site!

I have to ask....does this really sound like a company that is intentionally trying to "mislead" person's with Celiac Disease? To me it doesnt. In my opinion they are handling it even better then I had hoped for. I'm very pleased. :)

I think this is why we shouldnt make assumptions about motives, greed, false advertising, intentional disregard for people's health, shill's, etc. What you did was productive. All of the accusations that filled the pages of this thread were not.

Change isnt gonna happen when we dont do anything to MAKE it happen.

Thanks Sarah. :)

From Enzymedica's response.....

Please let me assure you that in no way did we want to imply a reference to Celiac disease and honestly from my own personal perspective being one of the team members that tried to write the article in an informed neutral way it was not our intention to mislead anyone. The key to seeing your point was the your patience in identifying and clearly explaining your point of view and I am in agreement with it and will do all I can to change it as soon as possible.

May I ask, would you like to make some suggestions on appropriate wording for the correction of this website and our upcoming new one?

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Rachel, I also agree with everything you said. Thanks for posting that list of possible causes for a leaky gut, Now I'm wondering if Soy was the trigger for mine. I have another question about the allergy testing. Enterolab said I'm sensitive to soy, and I since had some bloodwork done which came back negative for Soy, they used Quest Diagnostics. What do you think of that? I don't know what to think now.

Linda,

Allergy testing and intolerance testing are two different things. A "true" allergy is IgE-mediated....its an immediate reaction. It sounds like the bloodtest you had was for IgE...you can check your results to be sure.Since you say it was done by Quest....I'm assuming it was allergy testing. A negative allergy test means that your immune system is not producing IgE antibodies to soy. You do not have a "true" allergy.

Enterolab is testing for food intolerance/sensitivity. This is a different type of antibody. Reactions can be delayed and not obviously related to the offending food. Food senstivities can be caused by many factors including dysbiosis, yeast overgrowth, leaky gut, poor digestion, etc. These types of immune responses are not necessarily life-long.

Enterolab states that these foods should be avoided for life.....although I have never seen any evidence *anywhere* to indicate that this is true. If the problem which has led to the intolerance is treated effectively....these intolerances may resolve.

The results (if accurate) indicate that you are not allergic to soy...but you are intolerant. Two totally seperate things.

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I received a response from Enzymedica. You can read it here.

Looks like they're willing to change the website, to be more clear. Please check out the above link to my other thread, if you're interested.

:)

Way to go Sarah, this is the best way to get something done!! Good for you being "proactive" it's one thing to complain, but another to take action, and you did!

As Rachel stated, this company seems to be concerned about their actions, as well as their communication, as is evidenced in their timely and thorough response to you, and their willingness to get your help in their wording.

I applaud you...:)

ps...I saw where you posted about infertility and miscarriages when gluten sensitive, or Celiac, I had 7 miscarriages before giving up having another child, and I believe that was why, the doctors could never say why, wished I'd known then what I know now. I guess everything happens for a reason.

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Linda,

Allergy testing and intolerance testing are two different things. A "true" allergy is IgE-mediated....its an immediate reaction. It sounds like the bloodtest you had was for IgE...you can check your results to be sure.Since you say it was done by Quest....I'm assuming it was allergy testing. A negative allergy test means that your immune system is not producing IgE antibodies to soy. You do not have a "true" allergy.

Enterolab is testing for food intolerance/sensitivity. This is a different type of antibody. Reactions can be delayed and not obviously related to the offending food. Food senstivities can be caused by many factors including dysbiosis, yeast overgrowth, leaky gut, poor digestion, etc. These types of immune responses are not necessarily life-long.

Enterolab states that these foods should be avoided for life.....although I have never seen any evidence *anywhere* to indicate that this is true. If the problem which has led to the intolerance is treated effectively....these intolerances may resolve.

The results (if accurate) indicate that you are not allergic to soy...but you are intolerant. Two totally seperate things.

Thanks Rachel, so if I'm understanding you correctly, then the soy could have been a part of the problem leading to a leaky gut, in my case, and along with Candida. And who knows what else. I do think that with enzymes and probiotics, and proper diet, that I can heal and who knows what the possibilities are after that. For everything we know, there is so much more that we don't know...and if we're not willing to try things...how will we ever know?

I bought some hot chicken wings yesterday at Costco, and they did have soy on them, I didn't notice anything negative, but maybe I should wait a bit longer, since maybe I wouldn't have any overt signs or symptoms. Thanks for your good explanation, that fine line between allergy and sensitivity can be a bit confusing...:)

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Linda,

I was hurrying to reply to your post because my lunch break was almost over. You asked about the pain. When I had kidney pain, it went from my lower back at about my belt line and ran up my back 6-12 inches. If it was intense, it would radiate around the belt line to my right and left side. It started coming on from time to time at around age 30. I went to several doctors complaining of back pain, not thinking it could be my kidneys. The doctors examined my spine and said there was nothing wrong with me.

As for the stomach pains, they always started on the left side down low near the sigmoid flexure. I guess it would depend on the size of a person's belly, but my pain was about 6 inches left of and 3 inches below my belly button. It always started out feeling like a gas bubble and then got worse from there. When it got really bad it would hurt on both sides, but never as high up as the gall bladder. At times, the pressure would build up to the point that I felt pressure on my left lung.

Most of my life, I have eaten a higher level of fats than is recommended. This didn't ever seem to bother my gall bladder. The bowel needs a certain amount of fat to eliminate properly. I seemed to need it for energy and if I didn't eat the right amount of fat, I would get constipated. I demanded a lot of beef. If I ate fish or chicken, I would be weak and starving soon after I ate. That no longer is the case. Actually, I'm eating less than I ever have, and I have to work at keeping my weight down. I believe I have regained the ability to absorb nutrients.

I had an EGK 3 years ago and my doctor raved about how healthy and strong my heart is, so I guess in my case, the fats I ate were used by my body as lubrication for my intestines and most of it passed through me rather than damaging my heart.

In the 70's, they used soy as a filler in taco meat and some hamburger meat. It always gave me terrible gas. I read that soy is only good for a person if it has fermented. The only soy I consume is in tamari sauce (soy sauce). It is fermented and doesn't bother me.

Hope this helps,

Jack

Hi Jack, thank you again, it sounds like you really suffered, I hope that's all a thing of the past, thank you for sharing that with me. Our bodies are so complex, and everything is so inter-related that it can be difficult to pinpoint the exact source of pain, this is why it's difficult for me to say it's my gallbladder. I don't think it is because I don't have any of the typical gallbladder complaints, BUT it could be, the liver, and pancreas are there as well, and the kidneys and adrenals are also in close proximity, so difficult to say, the good news is that that pain is now very very mild, if and when I do have it, for now it's mostly non-existent.

I have heard the same thing about Soy, that if it's fermented it's ok. I'm glad to hear that your heart is in such good shape!!

We are what we eat, and we eat to live. It's so important to make our food count, and to make sure when we eat that the food we're eating is going to nourish our bodies at the cellular level, constant hunger is the bodies cry for nutrients, enzymes are one way of insuring that we get our nutrients, and in doing that our bodies have miraculous capabilities to heal. I suffered from malabsorption for so long, I could never figure out how I could take vitamins and eat well...well what I thought was healthy diet, (until I found out I was 'gluten sensitive') and feel so tired and weak all the time..now I know that when I was suffering from malabsorption, I wasn't absorbing my nutrients, and the reason I know I am now, is because I look and feel so much better. I am careful to take enzymes with every meal and extra when I eat fat, and I don't wake up all night long with that ache in my right low back.

Well I'm babbling, thank you for sharing your story about how the enzymes have helped you too...it's always good to share experiences with others...:)

I wish you well...Linda

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Here's a quick article about the company that makes Glutenease, Enzymedia. From the Charlotte Sun:
I have been baffled since this was posted. Why couldn't I find any information about the founder of Enzymedica "Tom Bohagen?" as spelled in this post. Because that isn't his name!

The founder of Enzymedica's name is Tom Bohager. A Google search will bring up 37 pages that include his name. It was mentioned that Tom worked as a salesman for an unknown herb company. Actually, I found that Tom had worked for three herb companies prior to forming Enzymedica. One of the companies I am acquainted with is Herb Pharm. I have used their products and they are excellent. I have not used any products from the two other companies that Tom worked for, so I can not comment on their quality.

Tom has a degree in holistic nutrition and has written several books on enzymes and nutrition.

Here is one link with some information about Tom Bohager: http://www.cancercontrolsociety.com/bio2007/bohager.htm

Anyone is interested in knowing more about this man can Google search Tom Bohager. I found some very interesting information there.

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Has anyone ever tried this digestive enzyme. I ran into someone at the healthfood store who suggested that I try it. I don't use it all the time, but when I got out to eat, or if I really want to cheat. So far I've had a lot of success with it. I didn't at first, then waited a few months and tried it again. Just curious if anyone else has tried it. I also came across a very interesteing website so thought I would post it. http://www.enzymedica.com/products/GlutenEase.

They also have an enzyme deficiency test http://www.enzymedica.com/enzyme_deficiency.php, which is pretty accurate.

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