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I just wanted to add, that even if you are Celiac and have to adhere to a Strict gluten free diet, you may still benefit from enzymes in general. Some people have been so sick for so long that going gluten free does not always mean an immediate healing in the gut and a little help from enzyme supplementation might be needed.

I agree...enzymes improve digestion....which in turn promotes healing!

This is what I've been trying to say all along. Celiac's can use enzymes....just not as an excuse to intentionally consume gluten.

Enzymes can be helpful for anyone who is on the gluten-free diet (Celiac or otherwise)....as well as for non-celiacs who do not require a life-long diet.

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I agree...enzymes improve digestion....which in turn promotes healing!

This is what I've been trying to say all along. Celiac's can use enzymes....just not as an excuse to intentionally consume gluten.

Enzymes can be helpful for anyone who is on the gluten-free diet (Celiac or otherwise)....as well as for non-celiacs who do not require a life-long diet.

I think a lot of the members here agree that enzymes can be helpful regardless of the brand. The main complaint seems to be the wording about the benefits of Glutenease.

Many companies hire an outside company or have a separate department that does their marketing. Marketing's job is to make people want to buy the product. If it is the case that the marketing department is not wording the literature properly, it looks like the company is putting out deceptive information. As they are an agent or employee of the manufacturer, then yes, the manufacturer has indeed allowed this to be printed, regardless of whether they ever really examined what the marketing people are saying or not.

I have called technical support and asked about wording that was printed on a brochure about how something I sell (paint and flooring) should be used. I have been told, "Oh, that's marketing", and then they tell me that they would not recommend using the product in that way.

The marketing of any product should be examined and approved by the manufacturer before the information is released. Especially if it has to do with our health.

If Enzymedica has allowed their marketing people to say things that could be misleading, I agree that this wording should be changed. The product was recommended to me by an herbalist who told me the proper use of the product and made no claims that the product could allow me to eat gluten.

I live a gluten free life and only take enzymes to aid digestion and possibly help to avoid the symptoms of cross contamination.

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What an interesting thread, I read up to page 10 and couldn't read anymore. Sad to see such bashing and angst over the suggestion of 'GLUTEN SENSITIVE' folks perhaps, IF THEY DECIDE using an enzyme that has the potential to allow them to eat out and not be sick.

I asked in a thread a while back if Gluten Ease worked and I've been away for awhile, but in the meantime, I bought some, and I tried it, and it WORKED!!! I came back last night to say something about it and found this thread and began reading. Anyway I had no intention of eating the gluten, but did because duh, I had a stupid moment, was out with family, one of my family members ordered a dish with couscous...I never had it before, wasn't sure what it was, he thought it was a kind of rice, so I took a whole bite of it, and as I was chewing it I realized that it was pasta, well fortunately before going to the restaurant I had taken my first Gluten Ease enzyme. When I realized what I had done, my stomach dropped, and I immediately took another one, again my only goal was hoping to be protected in case of CC....well it worked, I never had one symptom. For two days I waited to get hit with the fluid retention, and horrible fatigue, the bloating that ensues immediately never surfaced.

I find that exciting, the last time I ingested gluten, I was sick for 5 WEEKS, so it terrified me a bit when I realized I had a whole bites-worth. I was so grateful. It's nice to know that the Gluten Ease will allow me to go out and not be scared of everything on the menu.

I am NOT a Celiac, and do not have the genes, and my "gluten sensitivity" is caused by a leaky gut. I have been suffering for God only knows how long with malabsorption, and now with enzymes, yes, now I'm taking digestive enzymes, and probiotics, which are working for me, I won't go into the gory details, but they are definitely working! I'm reading books on enzymes, as well.

Enzymes are good for us, they assist the body to do what it needs to do. When we eat cooked and or processed, dead food, there are no enzymes to break that food down, so it sits in the stomach and we get indigestion, the enzymes assist to break the food down, allowing us to absorb the nutrients.

I agree with Rachel completely, and a few others here. The test is the proof. I know how sick I was, and I also know that the Gluten Ease worked for me.

I would never encourage ANYONE to take or do anything in terms of their healthcare, that is a personal decision up to each one of us, and we have to do our own homework. We can't just put our healthcare in the hands of doctor's or anyone else. Doctor's are the third leading cause of death. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles...h-part-one.aspx

I would rather do something Rachel told me about than listen to most doctors. She has done the research! And I'm doing my own, when I hear of something new I look into it, and I read several sources, and then I make my own "informed decision". I will continue to use Gluten Ease and I'm thankful to the creators of this enzyme.

ps...I am not a shill....just telling it like I see it.

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What an interesting thread, I read up to page 10 and couldn't read anymore. Sad to see such bashing and angst over the suggestion of 'GLUTEN SENSITIVE' folks perhaps, IF THEY DECIDE using an enzyme that has the potential to allow them to eat out and not be sick.

My suggestion would be to read those last few pages. It was pretty much agreed upon that the makers of GlutenEase do market it to Celiacs, regardless of their CYA statement.

Having read the whole thread, I don't think any non-Celiac gluten-sensitives were bashed or maligned for choosing to take enzymes.

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My suggestion would be to read those last few pages. It was pretty much agreed upon that the makers of GlutenEase do market it to Celiacs, regardless of their CYA statement.

Having read the whole thread, I don't think any non-Celiac gluten-sensitives were bashed or maligned for choosing to take enzymes.

I was wondering if anyone has tried this yet. I went to my local Health Food Store and there it was a cure(haha) but the nice lady working there said it could help to "clean out" little bits left over from when I was eating gluten. Check it out. Let me know.

http://www.enzymedica.com/glutenease.php

That is the original question by the original poster....(then along came a lot of bantering so much so that 10 pages was all I could stand), I just wanted to answer the question about Gluten Ease, and state that it worked for me. This thread wasn't about what, or to whom the advertisers were marketing their products.

And by the way we live in a free country, without 'censorship', so if they want to advertise to the man in the moon, that is their prerogative, ours is to discern from all the information out there what is acceptable to us...period.

And I suggest you go back and read the first few pages, maybe you need a refresher on bashing, because there was definitely name calling, and bashing going on. Closed minds are just that, closed. Exploring things only makes us more informed, no body is forcing anyone to take anything.

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That is the original question by the original poster....(then along came a lot of bantering so much so that 10 pages was all I could stand), I just wanted to answer the question about Gluten Ease, and state that it worked for me. This thread wasn't about what, or to whom the advertisers were marketing their products.

But it is what the thread became about, which is why I suggested you read the whole thing. It came to be about who the product was marketed to, because that is the big problem a lot of people have with it-- that it is marketed to those with Celiac Disease.

And by the way we live in a free country, without 'censorship', so if they want to advertise to the man in the moon, that is their prerogative, ours is to discern from all the information out there what is acceptable to us...period.

And thank goodness, we also have laws about false and dangerous advertising. Again... I suggest reading the last few pages.

And I suggest you go back and read the first few pages, maybe you need a refresher on bashing, because there was definitely name calling, and bashing going on. Closed minds are just that, closed. Exploring things only makes us more informed, no body is forcing anyone to take anything.

I have two children. I understand what name calling and bashing is.

Edited to add: If you're referring to the term shill, that was in reference to the possibility that a person or persons was posting in order to garner sales of this product. Big difference between that and maligning just anyone who chooses to use the product.

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What medical journal was this published in? Who conducted it?

...and above all else, why was there no control and no placebo?

Ok-I was not going to get involved in this thread but I did want to clear something up. I work at a hospital doing clinical trials, my trials involve cancer patients. Not all clinical trials have placebos. We have more studies which are all treatments involve drugs at either different dosing levels or different medication combinations than we have with this tx regimen vs placebo. Some clinical studies which will just give a certain group meds and observe another and just see differences.

even though this does not really have anything to do with the exact topic I did want to give the a/bove poster some info.

Just thought maybe you would find the clinical side of this somewhat interesting.

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Some clinical studies which will just give a certain group meds and observe another and just see differences.

Yes...and sometimes these "differences" can have alot of significance.

This is what I see with the enzymes....an overwhelming amount of positive responses (that is noticeable improvement) from people who have TRIED them.

To me that is significant. I can make an informed decision based on that info. alone. Also, enzymes are natural and safe....so they do not have the side effects of medications which most will not hesitate to take for their after-glutening symptoms.

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My suggestion would be to read those last few pages. It was pretty much agreed upon that the makers of GlutenEase do market it to Celiacs, regardless of their CYA statement.

I wouldnt call this their CYA statement. You will find that same exact statement on every supplement that you buy. Its required.

I also still dont believe that Enzymedica is marketing their product to Celiac's. This represents 1% of the population! They are going to do just fine selling this product to the non-celiac gluten intolerant's alone.

I do agree that the mention of "flattened villi" on their website is misleading. However, I do not think it is intentional deception to try to trick the people with Celiac into believing they can consume gluten without consequence....especially since the first paragraph on the page specifically says that its not a treatment for Celiac.

I find that when I'm reading about leaky gut, or parasite infections, or candida, or exposure to toxins...I also frequently come across the words "villi damage" or "damage to intestinal lining"....and yes....these other things CAN cause some damage. Food intolerance (including gluten) can cause inflammation/damage in people who do not have Celiac Disease.

I'm only having a problem with the mention of "flattened villi"....nothing else on the entire page bothers me.

I think that if those two words were removed from the page there would be no reason for anyone to feel that they are marketing the product to Celiac's specifically. I also think that even if those two words were removed people will still be upset that this product is available....although I'm still very confused as to why that is??

The product is called "GlutenEase"....not "CeliacCure".

I think most of this has to do with a lack of understanding of non-celiac gluten intolerance and a belief that most cases of gluten intolerance MUST be Celiac...which is just not the case.

Honestly I dont know why so much time was spent discussing Enzymedica's "motives" or "marketing strategies" instead of discussing the benefits of the enzymes. Clearly, they do have benefits based on the study I posted as well as the fact that noone in this thread (or any other enzyme related threads) has posted that they suffered negative consequences from taking enzymes.

Having read the whole thread, I don't think any non-Celiac gluten-sensitives were bashed or maligned for choosing to take enzymes.

Yes....there definately were some posters who were very adamant that *anyone* who would suggest enzymes (snakeoil) is either very "gullible" or is trying to make money off of all of the sick people here. So yes....there were people creating a very hostile environment...and not one of them had any knowledge or experience regarding enzymes.

I'm not referring to you of course. ;)

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I wouldnt call this their CYA statement. You will find that same exact statement on every supplement that you buy. Its required.

I also still dont believe that Enzymedica is marketing their product to Celiac's. This represents 1% of the population! They are going to do just fine selling this product to the non-celiac gluten intolerant's alone.

I do agree that the mention of "flattened villi" on their website is misleading. However, I do not think it is intentional deception to try to trick the people with Celiac into believing they can consume gluten without consequence....especially since the first paragraph on the page specifically says that its not a treatment for Celiac.

I find that when I'm reading about leaky gut, or parasite infections, or candida, or exposure to toxins...I also frequently come across the words "villi damage" or "damage to intestinal lining"....and yes....these other things CAN cause some damage. Food intolerance (including gluten) can cause inflammation/damage in people who do not have Celiac Disease.

I'm only having a problem with the mention of "flattened villi"....nothing else on the entire page bothers me.

I think that if those two words were removed from the page there would be no reason for anyone to feel that they are marketing the product to Celiac's specifically. I also think that even if those two words were removed people will still be upset that this product is available....although I'm still very confused as to why that is??

The product is called "GlutenEase"....not "CeliacCure".

I think most of this has to do with a lack of understanding of non-celiac gluten intolerance and a belief that most cases of gluten intolerance MUST be Celiac...which is just not the case.

Honestly I dont know why so much time was spent discussing Enzymedica's "motives" or "marketing strategies" instead of discussing the benefits of the enzymes. Clearly, they do have benefits based on the study I posted as well as the fact that noone in this thread (or any other enzyme related threads) has posted that they suffered negative consequences from taking enzymes.

Yes....there definately were some posters who were very adamant that *anyone* who would suggest enzymes (snakeoil) is either very "gullible" or is trying to make money off of all of the sick people here. So yes....there were people creating a very hostile environment...and not one of them had any knowledge or experience regarding enzymes.

I'm not referring to you of course. ;)

Well said as always Rachel!!! Sheesh, I don't understand why anyone would be upset about it either, why wouldn't we all be happy when someone finds something that makes them feel better.

I don't believe they're targeting Celiac's either. Just out of curiousity I wonder how many on this board alone are "gluten senstive" and NOT Celiac. There are many of us in my family alone who are having problems with Gluten, what does this say for the rest of society?

I am still afraid to eat like a whole piece of bread, along with the enzyme, but hopefully in time I want to try that. I'll let you know what happens if I do. Of course, I'll come in full armor...:)

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Linda,

Did you read the rest of the thread? Here was my take on it . . . and Rachel's response.

I think the product would also be harmful to the non-diagnosed Celiacs who are currently labeled Gluten Intolerant (either by themselves or their doctors) . . . and perhaps this is what Sarah was trying to say . . . we know that there are many on this board who are self-diagnosed either because they were fed up with their doctors/medical community, didn't have the insurance, IgA deficiant but never got IgG testing, had already gone gluten-free and didn't want to challange or were told by their doc they only needed to eat gluten for a week prior to testing, and then there are the standard false negatives. Many were diagnosed through Enterolab which we know can't diagnose Celiac. We have all seen the advice over and over on the board (I've said it myself) . . . "you don't need a diagnosis to remove gluten from your diet", "whether you are Gluten Intolerant or Celiac, the course of action is the same, a gluten-free diet," "you don't need a prescription from the doctor to go gluten-free," yada, yada, yada. You know that there are some undiagnosed Celiacs in those groups. I would have no guess as to how many.

This is exactly why I no longer make those recommendations to people. Yes, there was a time that I suggested those very things...however, I no longer do that. Instead I STRONGLY reccomend that everyone do the testing first.....bloodwork, biopsy and genes (if necessary). Get it out of the way and THEN try the diet....even if the tests were all negative.

This alleviates alot of the stress and confusion which may occur as a result of never having been tested. If someone does not improve as much as they should...and if they continue to have symptoms...they arent going to know if Celiac is part of their problem or not. Then they have to strugghle with the decision of whether or not to go back on gluten for testing.

Some of them cant do this w/out feeling very sick...so they self-diagnosis and never really have an answer either way.

I had all of my testing done in the beginning....which is why I never really had to struggle with those types of questions or lingering doubts. I feel very confidant that I do not have Celiac Disease. I had bloodwork, biopsy, and genetic testing....and they were all negative. My only positive test was through Enterolab. I tested positive across the board and had a very high malabsorption score.

Yes, I have had major problems with malabsorption and yes, major problems with food intolerance as well....but I have other things going on which are responsible for that.

Having had all of the testing done in the beginning allowed me to move forward and start looking into the other possibilities while I also remained gluten-free....because even though I wasnt Celiac....it was still an issue.

Personally, I think self-diagnosing can be dangerous. It can be dangerous if someone is not aware that they actually have Celiac Disease....and it can be dangerous if a person has diagnosed themselves Celiac when in fact they have some other condition/disease that they arent aware of.

It can be dangerous either way.

I don't believe they're targeting Celiac's either. Just out of curiousity I wonder how many on this board alone are "gluten senstive" and NOT Celiac.

And the point I'm trying to make is the opposite . . . how many think they are gluten intolerant but are in fact Celiac?

I am still afraid to eat like a whole piece of bread, along with the enzyme, but hopefully in time I want to try that. I'll let you know what happens if I do. Of course, I'll come in full armor...:)

I look at this particular enzyme (not ALL enzymes) as dangerous for Celiacs and hopefully, a Celiac would be educated enough to know that this enzyme is NOT license to eat whatever you want. You, yourself, have said that over time, you might try eating a whole piece of bread along with an enzyme such as Glutenease. This is indeed the heart of the matter. Here is a product that makes people think it's OK to ingest gluten. Perhaps for many people that will work just fine but not for the undiagnosed Celiacs. For your sake, I hope that you are indeed gluten intolerant and not an undiagnosed Celiac.

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I looked at the website this morning and the ingredients for the product are two amylases. Unless there are undisclosed ingredients, the only purpose of the product is to help you digest starch, not gluten specifically. It's also worth keeping in mind that the starch is converted to glucose, which may have downstream implications for diabetes.

If your body digests starch badly, it may be a protective measure to keep your blood sugar stable. Maybe some people develop type 2 diabetes because their bodies have lost this protection.

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I don't at all believe that digestive enzymes are snake oil. I have taken them on occasion. My Dr. prescribed them and wrote me a prescription for them to see if they would help my sluggish digestion. They are much cheaper that way and you know what you are getting. I was never told they would help if I was glutened. I still have to be gluten-free. :)

neesee

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I also still dont believe that Enzymedica is marketing their product to Celiac's. This represents 1% of the population! They are going to do just fine selling this product to the non-celiac gluten intolerant's alone.

I do agree that the mention of "flattened villi" on their website is misleading. However, I do not think it is intentional deception to try to trick the people with Celiac into believing they can consume gluten without consequence....especially since the first paragraph on the page specifically says that its not a treatment for Celiac.

<snip>

Honestly I dont know why so much time was spent discussing Enzymedica's "motives" or "marketing strategies" instead of discussing the benefits of the enzymes. Clearly, they do have benefits based on the study I posted as well as the fact that noone in this thread (or any other enzyme related threads) has posted that they suffered negative consequences from taking enzymes.

1% of the population isn't a 1/2 bad marketing demographic for a dietary supplement. And yeah, the CYA statement is required. Everybody knows that because it's on every single bottle of supplements available in this country. And unfortunately, it is therefore ignored by every single person who picks them up. Including you, and including me.

Whether they're deliberately misleading people or are just totally ignorant about what they're spouting on their ads, I suppose we can't really know. Either way, it's pretty irresponsible.

The reason why it's such a big deal that they're marketing to Celiacs follows...

I am still afraid to eat like a whole piece of bread, along with the enzyme, but hopefully in time I want to try that. I'll let you know what happens if I do. Of course, I'll come in full armor...:)

For a Celiac, this is very dangerous.

And the point I'm trying to make is the opposite . . . how many think they are gluten intolerant but are in fact Celiac?

As unreliable as current testing can be, this is a major point.

You, yourself, have said that over time, you might try eating a whole piece of bread along with an enzyme such as Glutenease. This is indeed the heart of the matter. Here is a product that makes people think it's OK to ingest gluten. Perhaps for many people that will work just fine but not for the undiagnosed Celiacs. For your sake, I hope that you are indeed gluten intolerant and not an undiagnosed Celiac.

Janet, you've hit the nail on the head. This is the heart of the problem, and has been all along, I believe. The reason that the marketing is an issue, is because it is aimed at Celiacs (along with others,) and for a Celiac, this is dangerous! And Linda is not the only person right here on these boards I've heard say something similar very recently.

And the average Celiac who sees that ad in the magazine is going to see "villi damage" and "villi flattening" and say Hey! That's what I have!

This is what that choice can cost:

Cancer

Infertility

Miscarriage

Osteoporosis

Behavioral Disorders

Malnutrition

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keeping in mind that the starch is converted to glucose, which may have downstream implications for diabetes.

If your body digests starch badly, it may be a protective measure to keep your blood sugar stable. Maybe some people develop type 2 diabetes because their bodies have lost this protection.

This is interesting and something I have not thought about. Jess I always appreciate your opinion, as it's based on solid science and told in a way that is understandable. :)

Another good point, I thought, was that there is a lot we still don't know about Celiac and the testing leaves a lot to be desired. My problen with enzymes is not using them for digestion in general, but that someone may be doing unintentional harm to themselves thinking that an autoimmune reaction isn't taking place, when in reality it is.

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You, yourself, have said that over time, you might try eating a whole piece of bread along with an enzyme such as Glutenease. This is indeed the heart of the matter. Here is a product that makes people think it's OK to ingest gluten. Perhaps for many people that will work just fine but not for the undiagnosed Celiacs. For your sake, I hope that you are indeed gluten intolerant and not an undiagnosed Celiac.

Thanks for your concern, but the point for me is this. I am NOT a Celiac. The literature states that unless you have the DQ2,DQ8 genes, you cannot be a celiac. I do not have those genes. I agree with everyone that a true Celiac more than likely should not take this enzyme, at least not until further studies are completed, and this is the last post I will make on the subject because I'm really not interested in arguing or belaboring the issue.

I am not supporting anyone's marketing or products, I'm only saying that I tried the glutenease and it worked for me...that's all. If I became 'gluten sensitive' because of a leaky gut (secondary to Candida which I know I was suffering from) and so is more than likely the case FOR ME, then there is reason to believe that as my gut heals, and it is, that I might be able to injest gluten again with no problems.

Everyone has to make their own mind up about this. I am currently eating a mostly raw diet right now...and have been for the last 3 weeks, and will continue to do so. Wheat or wheat products will never be a regular part of my diet again. For one thing wheat is not nutritious, so the price to pay is totally not worth it, but it's nice to know that when I go out I can order food without worrying about CC, that's what it does for me. This diet is great because I don't have to read labels or worry about CC. Makes me feel like my life doesn't REVOLVE around GLUTEN for a change. My husband says I'm glowing and I look younger, I have lots of energy, and can tell that my bowel is getting better too.

None of us has any control over what Enzymedica, or anyone else does for that matter, and I am not interested in belaboring this subject any more. I feel the way I do, and you feel the way you do, let's just agree that we disagree. My feeling this way isn't hurting any Celiac's, or promoting any products. I am not NOT going to purchase something that is helping me so that a Celiac somewhere doesn't take it....I am not that powerful. And I'm not saying that we shouldn't get involved, just that none of us has proof or data to prove otherwise. My proof for me is that it worked for me, and I was terrified that it wouldn't....pleasantly surprised when it did. I was very symptomatic when eating gluten, so there is no reason for me to believe that my symptoms would suddenly be hidden.

I wish you all well in your endeavor to take care of your health and that of your loved ones. Linda

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Actually not true

gluten genes

Jess--

Thanks so much for this link right here on c.com.

I hadn't read it before.

appreciate all the info i can get on these genes.

Judy

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Thanks Jess, that was a great article!

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This is what happens! This is what happens as a direct result of these companies' irresponsible marketing! On this very board I have just read someone suggesting to a 13 year old child that it's ok to order food at a restaurant that has a little bit of gluten as long as you take your GlutenEase! If I sound outraged, it's because I AM!

http://www.celiac.com/index.php?s...mp;#entry451512

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This is what happens! This is what happens as a direct result of these companies' irresponsible marketing! On this very board I have just read someone suggesting to a 13 year old child that it's ok to order food at a restaurant that has a little bit of gluten as long as you take your GlutenEase! If I sound outraged, it's because I AM!

http://www.celiac.com/index.php?s...mp;#entry451512

I agree this is very unfortunate, and should not happen.

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I have no intention of popping a pill and eating gluten, truly.

I know.

There are some people on this forum who became incredibly ill eating gluten, and the thought that anyone would dismiss that possibility for themselves, horrifies them.

I personally don't care if you (or anyone) ends up in a wheelchair because they embraced the "a little won't hurt" theory, but fortunately for you (and everyone else) there are people on this forum who are passionate about protecting other people from making the same mistakes they made.

I know comments can come across snippy, but try to remember that the emotion behind them is usually "OMG, please don't do that! You'll hurt yourself"

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