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WestyPDX

Just Ditched The Gfd

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Take heart. I think your main struggle here is that a GFD can not be done gradually and be effective. 1 you still feel crummy while you are attempting to make major changes in your lifestyle, 2 you are still tasting the flavors and textures that you are familiar with, which makes it difficult to adjust to the new textures and flavors you are trying to introduce to your palate.

Change is difficult for any reason, even changes that are for the better. The problem is you are looking at what you are giving up rather than what you are gaining. Let's leave health aside since health does not seem to be a major motivator for Americans in the first place. If it were, our obesity rate wouldn't be so high. Right?

The biggest gain here, can be taste. I for one regained my taste and the appreciation for flavors the way they were intended when I started exploring how to create my favorite dishes modified for a GFD. That is why I choose to describe my recipes as Gluten Freedom rather than gluten free. Keep in mind though, nothing comes from nothing. Your gain will match your effort.

Here's an idea. You let me know what your favorite Non-gluten-free dish is, that you prepare for yourself and I will do some of the footwork for you. I will find out what gluten-free products you can use or subsitute and provide you with a shopping list and a modified gluten-free recipe. Sound good?

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Maybe your doctor would be willing to give you a prescription for Tylenol with codeine just to get you over the initial hump. Codeine is a mild opiate, and might make the cravings less. Then you could step down from there. My son had the same withdrawal thing, but it only lasted 2 days and then it was over. It truly was like a drug withdrawal.

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A lot (me included) find that gluten-free is not enough. When my digestion finally collapsed I went gluten-free and Dairy free and still that was not enough. I had to go gluten-free immediately as it was the only way I could get relief from the awful pain every time I ate and the raging D and that abated within hours! But there was still little I could eat as I was reacting to so much of my food. I realised that it was mostly the carbs that were giving me gyp so I went low-carb too.

Many do find that they go through some kind of withdrawal for the first 2 or 3 weeks. I had weird things happen - I even felt my liver have a clear-out - I could feel all the stuff going down the tubes which was weird, and it was sore for a couple days after! It's like my liver said, "ok, she's stopped the crud-fest, now I can finally let go of the rubbish"!!!

About 4 weeks later I discovered the Specific Carb Diet (SCD) and have been following that ever since. It has been a revelation and I am so much better than I was 9 months ago. Not totally well, but certainly better than I would have been if I had carried on eating the stodge, gluten-free or otherwise. The improvement is slow, but it is still improvement day on day, month on month. I now no longer react to gluten and can also cope with dairy better, but I won't consume it again until I am well healed.

I have realised that one of the most important things, if not the most important, in order to encourage the healing process is to eat as pure as possible. If you want to be clean , you have to eat clean. Even many gluten-free foods are very high-carb and can be difficult for a damaged gut to digest. Try to limit your diet to good, wholesome (preferably organic) meat, fish, poultry, fruit, veg and raw honey. Although dairy in general is not allowed on the SCD, some cheeses are permitted depending on the type and the individual's ability to digest them.

Keep well away from anything processed, adulterated, mucked-about-with, and generally garbage - sadly even some gluten-free food will fall into that category. Try to avoid as much grains, starches and sugar as possible. Whilst pure vital foods will enhance the body adding enzymes and nutrients, there are many 'food-like substances' out there that are 'empty' of vitality, and unfortunately many more that are 'negative' foods - they actually deplete the body of enzymes and nutrients and contribute nothing except toxic substances.

So much of that stuff is produced for one reason only - to make money, and whether it is good for us or not is irrelevant.

There are three books that really woke me up to the food industry 'scam' and what it is all doing to us, and how we can change our diet to benefit ourselves.

'In defense of Food' by Michael Pollan (very eye-opening and informative)

'Gut and Psychology Syndrome' by Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride (mainly written for those with ASD but valuable info for anyone with health issues)

Breaking the Vicious Cycle' by Elaine Gottschall (the SCD handbook).

If you can beg, borrow or buy them, they are well worth reading.

(SCD thread on the 'Other Food Intolerances' section if you want more info. Quite a few of us on the forum are following it and really benefiting).

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I would just like to know when your stomach starts to get sick from eatting gluten,..... You just ate it yesterday? Let us know how fast it effects you. Just curious. I cheated at thanksgiving and I was JACKED up for 2 frickin weeks... I definetly learned my lesson not to do gluten ever again. even as tempting as it is...

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Two thoughts on Synthroid:

1) I had some major depression the first time I was on Synthroid, and my endocrinologist said that she'd seen this several times, and suspected something not-quite-right with Synthroid brand, and switched me to Levoxyl. End of depression. She later told me several patients did better on Levoxyl, and she didn't know why, but thought it significant.

(Oddly enough, I am on Synthroid now (different endocrinologist), with no problems whatsoever. Go figure.)

2) My thyroid levels were all over the place, too, right before I was diagnosed with celiac. But every time they tested me, they had to RAISE my dosage, until I was taking more than twice my original dosage, and I was STILL exhausted all the time.

We later figured out that, due to the good 'ol celiac leaky gut, I wasn't properly absorbing the Synthroid (or maybe not absorbing it at all). I am not back down to my original dose (from 20 years ago).

While I know that going off gluten cold-turkey CAN trigger withdrawal symptoms, I do think it sounds like you are making excuses. I'm not lecturing you--just calling it as I see it.

I think you need to go off--and stay off--gluten. Forever. You don't need it, and you just might be triggering all kinds of other auto-immune problems (yes, cancer included, but there are others that are just as devastating, like fibromyalgia and lupus).

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I suggest you watch "Good Eats" by Alton Brown.

I love Alton! Even have his first cookbook. I've always liked to cook, but when I'm in a state of distress, the last thing I want to do is get up and be creative in the kitchen, so it's nachos. Or chili over rice. Over and over.

Keep in mind that as your body's villi begin to heal, your absorption of medications will change. You need to be ABUNDANTLY aware of how each medication you take affects you, and be willing to start taking less and less as you heal ...

The B spectrum is recommended (by those of us who are knowledgable) for every new Celiac because standards used for non-Celiacs don't apply to us. You need more than a normal person because you're damaged more than a normal person ...

Excellent point about absorption of meds, and I think I have that covered with my primary doc. He's agreed to let me come in a week before my follow-up appts. for the thyroid to have my blood drawn, so when we sit down we're talking about my current test results, not last October's. I go next at the end of the month. I believe those tests will become an important marker for where I am along the path.

You're the second person to mention B-complex. I can look up what's available, of course, but off the top of your head, do you have a brand/formula you prefer?

I'm hoping you've checked the ingredients of your soy sauce.

Yup! Wheat-free organic tamari by San-J. :) It's spendy, but it does taste great and does the job.

Here's an idea. You let me know what your favorite Non-gluten-free dish is, that you prepare for yourself and I will do some of the footwork for you. I will find out what gluten-free products you can use or subsitute and provide you with a shopping list and a modified gluten-free recipe. Sound good?

Thanks for your offer, I really appreciate it. I'm putting together a list of my most-often made meals for the dietician, and I'll post it when I'm done. I'm up to about 20 now, and will probably stop around 25-30. That should give anyone enough variety to pick a few things off of it for suggestions.

Maybe your doctor would be willing to give you a prescription for Tylenol with codeine just to get you over the initial hump.

Wellllll, I take something a lot stronger than that already as a maintenance med. ;) It could very well be that the gluten was oversaturating my opiate receptors to a level that the pills I take can't replace it, if gluten withdrawal is what's going on.

About 4 weeks later I discovered the Specific Carb Diet (SCD) and have been following that ever since. It has been a revelation and I am so much better than I was 9 months ago.

I saw that thread. Really interesting. I've a few things to consider about how to go forward. If I eat too much protein, I get gout. Now I'm not supposed to have gluten, and I'm learning that I need to avoid dairy as well, at least for a while.

A low-purine diet for gout would emphasize green veggies and tomatoes, fruits and fruit juices, non-yeast breads, nuts, milk, butter and cheese, chocolate, coffee and tea. Take away the dairy and I'm left with veggies, fruit, nuts, chocolate, coffee and tea. An earlier poster suggested that two apples and a handful of grapes is causing some of my problems. When you whittle it down, what's left that I can make a nutritious diet from? Not much, LOL.

I do think I should concentrate on what is as gentle as possible on me for a while.

I would just like to know when your stomach starts to get sick from eatting gluten,..... You just ate it yesterday? Let us know how fast it effects you.

Gluten has never had a bad effect upon my stomach. Having some chow mein yesterday has started to stabilize me so well already that I had a full night's sleep last night, and worked all day for the first time in 3 weeks or so, even stayed a couple of hours late, and I didn't feel tired at all. Went to my favorite Thai place for lunch, and had the red curry chicken over rice. Delish!

I had some major depression the first time I was on Synthroid, and my endocrinologist said that she'd seen this several times, and suspected something not-quite-right with Synthroid brand, and switched me to Levoxyl. End of depression. She later told me several patients did better on Levoxyl, and she didn't know why, but thought it significant.

How funny, I started out on Levoxyl. I actually did better on one really old brand of thyroid, forget it's name, but when the FDA finally made the drug companies prove their thyroid meds were safe and effective (about 10 years ago?), that brand seemed to drop away, so we switched to Synthroid.

I do think it sounds like you are making excuses. I'm not lecturing you--just calling it as I see it.

And how many times have celiac patients been on the receiving end of "it's all in your head" or similar? You aren't living in my shoes. But water off a duck's back, no harm done. :)

I think you need to go off--and stay off--gluten. Forever.

That's what this thread is about. How to accomplish just that. Never said it was about anything else except how to approach it right this time. (Don't know why I seem to have to repeat that so often in one way or another, but oh well.)

Thanks for all the help and suggestions, everyone, I really do appreciate it!

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I love Alton! Even have his first cookbook. I've always liked to cook, but when I'm in a state of distress, the last thing I want to do is get up and be creative in the kitchen, so it's nachos. Or chili over rice. Over and over.

Excellent point about absorption of meds, and I think I have that covered with my primary doc. He's agreed to let me come in a week before my follow-up appts. for the thyroid to have my blood drawn, so when we sit down we're talking about my current test results, not last October's. I go next at the end of the month. I believe those tests will become an important marker for where I am along the path.

You're the second person to mention B-complex. I can look up what's available, of course, but off the top of your head, do you have a brand/formula you prefer?

That's what this thread is about. How to accomplish just that. Never said it was about anything else except how to approach it right this time. (Don't know why I seem to have to repeat that so often in one way or another, but oh well.)

Thanks for all the help and suggestions, everyone, I really do appreciate it!

I use a gluten-free B-complex I get at Walmart- cheap, I know, but I ain't really rolling in dough right now. I use a sublingual additionally for rough days. I think it's by NatureMade, the B-complex.

Dude, you're doing fine. You don't need to explain yourself over and over. The people on the board are usually on high alert against the "This is too hard, why bother?" attitude, it's something they can't help but guard against, to protect the unsuspecting newbie. I try to just let it roll.

Food: Have you seen Bob's Red Mill gluten-free products? Buy the gluten-free cornbread mix, and make LOTs of pancakes with it and freeze them. Seriously, best pancakes I ever had. The cornbread itself is awesome, and oddly better dairy free. For pancakes: 1 cup mix, 1 cup water, 2 eggs. They hardly brown at all when full cooked, so be warned. Most gluten-free pancakes wind up almost black on the outside just to get the middle cooked, that's why I like these so much.

Awesome filling breakfast/lunch/dinner: scrambled eggs over diced avocado & salsa. Wierd, but just try it once......

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Food: Have you seen Bob's Red Mill gluten-free products? Buy the gluten-free cornbread mix, and make LOTs of pancakes with it and freeze them. Seriously, best pancakes I ever had. The cornbread itself is awesome, and oddly better dairy free. For pancakes: 1 cup mix, 1 cup water, 2 eggs. They hardly brown at all when full cooked, so be warned. Most gluten-free pancakes wind up almost black on the outside just to get the middle cooked, that's why I like these so much.

I should try those, too. I've had success with the gluten-free pancake & waffle mix from Trader Joe's, made as indicated on the package with the addition of a mashed ripe banana. It adds moisture and a subtle sweetness, and these babies don't have to be cooked to a crisp either. My boyfriend loved them, and he's not even gluten-free. He was surprised these were "special" when I served them.

A side note: I've made the gluten-free brownie mix from Trader Joe's and was not pleased at all. I'll try one more time, or make the cookies recipe on the bag, but if those don't turn out, I guess I'll look for a different mix or *gasp* make my own :)

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I use a gluten-free B-complex I get at Walmart- cheap, I know, but I ain't really rolling in dough right now. I use a sublingual additionally for rough days. I think it's by NatureMade, the B-complex.

Dude, you're doing fine. You don't need to explain yourself over and over. The people on the board are usually on high alert against the "This is too hard, why bother?" attitude, it's something they can't help but guard against, to protect the unsuspecting newbie. I try to just let it roll.

Food: Have you seen Bob's Red Mill gluten-free products? Buy the gluten-free cornbread mix, and make LOTs of pancakes with it and freeze them. Seriously, best pancakes I ever had.

Hi, and yup, I live about 4 miles from Bob's HQ in the Portland 'burbs, LOL, so easy access. I remember them when they were literally a hole in the wall. After my experience at the gluten-free bakery on Corbett on Day 3 of the diet (spitting out the apple cake after a bite or two, and ditching the bag of AP flour substitute after one use), I just don't think I'm ready for the alternate grains stuff just yet. I tried some of the gluten-free rice flakes I bought again last night after dinner, and decided I really needed to just toss the box out. They taste like slippery disks of stale white glue, not appetizing at all.

And yes, I realize this is the internet and people are going to take things wrong at times, not read everything, or read only what they want to read into a situation. I've been online for over 20 years, and I know that if I'm just consistent and honest about who I am and what I'm doing, over time people will recognize that, so I don't let anything where people misunderstand me get under my skin, even though I may point it out what's going on for emphasis sometimes. :)

Thanks for the tip on WalMart for the vitamins, we have one on the other side of the hill, and I can always use an excuse to stop by for some cheap Tide and Febreze!

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Hi, and yup, I live about 4 miles from Bob's HQ in the Portland 'burbs, LOL, so easy access. I remember them when they were literally a hole in the wall. After my experience at the gluten-free bakery on Corbett on Day 3 of the diet (spitting out the apple cake after a bite or two, and ditching the bag of AP flour substitute after one use), I just don't think I'm ready for the alternate grains stuff just yet. I tried some of the gluten-free rice flakes I bought again last night after dinner, and decided I really needed to just toss the box out. They taste like slippery disks of stale white glue, not appetizing at all.

And yes, I realize this is the internet and people are going to take things wrong at times, not read everything, or read only what they want to read into a situation. I've been online for over 20 years, and I know that if I'm just consistent and honest about who I am and what I'm doing, over time people will recognize that, so I don't let anything where people misunderstand me get under my skin, even though I may point it out what's going on for emphasis sometimes. :)

Thanks for the tip on WalMart for the vitamins, we have one on the other side of the hill, and I can always use an excuse to stop by for some cheap Tide and Febreze!

You probably hated the All-Purpose flour because it has bean flour in it. Don't go there. And rice flakes are icky. I don't use much from Bob's, just individual flours like sorghum and starches, and the cornbread mix. Which doesn't have bean flour. I have found that most store-made gluten-free food just ain't close to what I make at home. For example, I make the best banana bread ever. Had some at a gluten-free bakery that's new here and yeah, not so much....The key is to get it right, and it's hard to know who's got anything right until you try it yourself. MY first recommendation to anyone on this diet is to try those pancakes. Every single person I've fed them to has loved them, gluten-free or not.

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Heh. Got it, that'll be easy to remember. Bean flour is icky. :D

It's too bad that I'll be ditching dairy as well after the last of the milk is gone, otherwise I'd go out for some Rice Chex. Those I like. Too bad I didn't know they were gluten-free when I was looking for something else I could eat for breakfast. (And I don't know why someone can't just do a Kellogg's Corn Flakes w/o the malt syrup in it. This Nature's Path brand I bought are juice-flavored and way too thick to taste right, but if that's all there is, I still need corn flakes every now and then, so I'll eat 'em until the milk's gone and when I can have dairy again.)

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I love Alton! Even have his first cookbook. I've always liked to cook, but when I'm in a state of distress, the last thing I want to do is get up and be creative in the kitchen, so it's nachos. Or chili over rice. Over and over.

Sure, I can understand not wanting to cook everyday, but the cool thing is, you don't have to! I cook some major things about twice a week, freeze some, live off left overs the rest of the week. I used bagged salad greens to throw together really fast meals in a bowl (add chicken, olives, cheese if you eat it, nuts, whatever you want). That's one meal a day. The other meal is something I made earlier. Breakfast is easy, usually just something like egg/sausage/bacon or else I skip it.

I guess what works for me is just making sure I always have something on hand I can eat with very little fuss. Or throw together and take to work in 5 minutes or less in the morning.

Lately I've been eating a lot of cold chicken with this amazing recipe I found on the Internet: Succulent Chinese Chicken I throw it in my salads. Eventually I'm going to make some dipping sauces, maybe roll it into a lettuce leaf and dip it. Takes about 5 min of prep, 20 min of cooking, hour of resting (the chicken), 10 minutes to pull off the meat and clean up. All in all, 15 minutes of work for at least a few days of really amazing cold chicken (and broth if you keep it).

Not to make a inadvertent pun but there's some chicken and egg stuff going on, I think. You feel bad because you're not controlling your diet so you don't control your diet. At some point you just need to grab hold and start to do what you need to do, regardless of your current mood, because doing it is the fix, not just waiting for the mood to come on you (which it probably won't).

I used that reasoning to quit smoking. My emotions said I wasn't ready to quit. But the rational parts of my brain realized that my emotions were really worthless, if I waited for divine inspiration or the proper mood to descend upon me to take control... I'd probably be long dead of lung cancer. So I let my reasoning lead me out of that morass, not my emotions. I did what I didn't feel like doing and I'm very glad about it.

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Heh. Got it, that'll be easy to remember. Bean flour is icky. :D

Actually, bean flour is not icky! Garfava or garbanzo flours tend to be somewhat icky if used in the wrong recipes. They have a strong flavor. I only use bean flour in yeast breads myself.

The absolute best bean flour is white bean flour. If you ever need a good gluten-free bread that is as close to "real" bread as anything I've ever seen, check this recipe out:

http://mennonitegirlscancook.blogspot.com/...free-bread.html

It's a bit of a pain to get the white bean flour but after you've assembled the ingredients the bread is SO good it's totally worth the hassle!

However, this is just something you should know about so that on that day in the far future when you've been on the diet for a long time and you're craving "real" bread, you know that there is a gluten free bread recipe out there that actually makes really good bread. Just bookmark the link for that day. ;)

You certainly don't need to worry about making bread right now, when you are struggling with just beginning the diet!

Good luck with everything! It sounds like you're going in the right direction!

JoAnn

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Actually, bean flour is not icky! Garfava or garbanzo flours tend to be somewhat icky if used in the wrong recipes. They have a strong flavor. I only use bean flour in yeast breads myself.

May be one of those things that some people taste more strongly than others. I can't stand bean flour! Garbanzo, however, has almost no taste to me :D

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I think dairy might be the biggest factor here. It certainly was the clincher for me. Once I cut out most dairy (milk, yogurt, fresh cheeses) things got so much better. I don't seem to have problems with goat cheeses or hard cheeses, though I try to limit the amounts. I drink almond milk - it is the best and I actually prefer it now.

Maybe it would help if you gave us a list of your favorite foods and we gave you ideas for great-tasting substitutes. For example, I made pizza the other night using corn tortillas (these were the sprouted kind), covered them with sauce (I used salsa because I didn't have pizza sauce), sprinkled on some cheese, and layered with sausage and sprinkled on a little oregano. Placed in the oven for 15 minutes at 450. God, they were good! My husband had California Pizza and was eyeing up mine the whole time.

This morning I made banana muffins from a mix of misc. gluten-free flours I had put together from small amounts leftover. I think there was teff, sorghum, rice, almond, flax, and who knows what else in there! I just followed the original recipe in Joy of Cooking to a T, added in 1 tsp of xanthum gum, and added raisins and nuts. They turned out great! My husband thought they were non-gluten-free. I have found that if you follow regular recipes, they often turn out well, especially with Pamela's baking mix or a mix of flours like I had.

I eat so much better now. And I am gluten sensitive, not celiac, so please rethink eating gluten-free foods at all. You are doing so much damage. I guess it is hard at first, but really, I love the foods I make now. Also, I tried Glutino bagels (sesame) again - I was not happy with them the first time - and I love them now. They must have changed the formula. Van's gluten-free waffles are good, Tinkyada pasta, Glutino crackers and pretzels, regular Utz chips are as well, but really I am finding that I prefer real foods over substitutes so much more now.

Best of luck,

Laurie

Laurie:

I agree with you. When I found out I had a gluten sensitive system I tried different foods and hated them. I think it was because I didn't want to be gluten sensitive. Now, I have accepted it and love the foods that are offered. Much like you I prefer them over regular foods.

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I want to resurrect this thread and maybe find out how you are doing, WestyPDX. Did you get back on the gluten-free diet? How did it go? Did you have withdrawal sx again? How long did they last?

I found this thread because I searched for "gluten withdrawal" on this forum. I am having some nasty issues with it myself. I went gluten-free two weeks ago. 48 hours later I was hit with a crushing fatigue and depression that refused to lift. It took me until yesterday to think about the possibility of withdrawal symptoms. Last night I couldn't stand it any more and ate some pizza. Within 3 hours I felt almost normal again. This morning, however, had D and brain fog.

I know I need to be gluten-free. But does anyone have any ideas how to deal with the withdrawal, and how long did it last for people here? I was disabled for two weeks; I barely got through my part-time, low-stress job, and was unable to to anything much more than go home and lie down or sit at the computer.

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Just a quick note in response to the comments on bean flours. I did some digging, and found that the stone grinding process which Bob's Red Mill uses creates too much heat, breaking down the oils in the beans. It basically creates rancid flour right from the get-go. Same for their other flours, just to a lesser degree. I don't buy any of Bob's flours.

I use bean flours all the time, but I will never use Bob's, unless maybe if they stop stone grinding. Though there is a more pronounced taste, it's not foul as long as the flour isn't spoiled.

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