Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD)

[AliB]

When I do get to bed now (getting there early enough is still a problem!) I do sleep pretty soundly and much better than I did for years.

Many of us have blood sugar issues long before we ever become Diabetic (I suffered with hypos for years prior to the Diabetes) and although that is generally fuelled by carbs, sometimes it can also be due to a lack of enough protein and fats.

Personally I wouldn't recommend having the snack just before bed - the night is the 'liver time' when it does a lot of its processing and cleansing work. It probably would be better eaten at least 3 hours before bed to give it enough time to digest before sleep.

Protein, whilst the body does convert it to glycogen if needed, raises blood sugar at a much gentler level so doesn't trigger the spikes and troughs that carb does. What protein does do is stabilise blood sugar by giving the liver a slower release of glycogen to deal with so that it doesn't run out in the middle of the night and trigger a hypo.

Fats don't affect blood sugar at all, but what they do do is keep the satiation going a lot longer.

As far as the coconut oil is concerned, I have read through the portion of 'Coconut Cures' that is on Google Books and it is fascinating. I will have to invest in the book. It is powerful stuff. Research has found that it can even kill the HIV virus!

I am just scouting around for more supplies because I have run out and am desperate to keep these benefits going. Terry has been 'treating' fungal nails for over a year with conventional medication and it has been a slow process (sure sign he has Candida) and I want him to slather coconut oil on them instead. Can't help feeling that if we had known about it from the start, it would have been done and dusted by now.

If I can find a good source that is cheap enough (and I am hoping that I have now - just waiting for a response) I want to up the dosage to between 2 and 3 tablespoons a day if I can, as, along with the diet and really reigning in the carbs, it has been the one thing that has had the greatest effect so far.

I can only assume that whilst I have never stopped having fats, it is the MCT's that my body has been needing all these years! I want to get enough to get us all using it too, not just me.

They obviously don't call it 'The Tree of Life' for nothing............

[pele]

Personally I wouldn't recommend having the snack just before bed - the night is the 'liver time' when it does a lot of its processing and cleansing work. It probably would be better eaten at least 3 hours before bed to give it enough time to digest before sleep.

You sound like my husband! He likes dinner early and doesn't eat in the evening. I just finished dinner at 7:30 and will be in bed by ten with a snack or two in the meantime. Maybe I do have a lot of stomach acid. It's never bothered me. My digestive problems have been farther along.

I'm afraid if I had my protein snack early, I would be hitting the SCD honey snacks right before bed.

[YoloGx]

Just goes to show we are all different, eh? Even last night when I again had trouble sleeping it was the sunflower seeds that seemed to calm me. Why I don't know except that they do have both protein and lots of B-1. And face it, my nerves are still bound to be somewhat whacked after all those years of getting at least trace gluten.

Meanwhile Pele I didn't mean to suggest that you would have acid indigestion. Its just that some of us have more HCL in our stomachs than others. Part of the old hunter gatherer thing in my opinion that makes us more set up for more of a meat diet. My mother still doesn't need to take HCL--and she's 94!

The fact we have intestinal distress due to celiac is a different issue--though it often confused my doctors before I finally figured out what was going on. My stomach however almost seems cast iron--its just my abdomen that is so hypersensitive!

Bea

[AliB]

You sound like my husband! He likes dinner early and doesn't eat in the evening. I just finished dinner at 7:30 and will be in bed by ten with a snack or two in the meantime. Maybe I do have a lot of stomach acid. It's never bothered me. My digestive problems have been farther along.

I'm afraid if I had my protein snack early, I would be hitting the SCD honey snacks right before bed.

I don't think we are all that different than we think we are. Our bodily processes should be pretty much the same. We all have the same bits. I think that over time this Western Diet has forced our bodies into dealing with those processes differently than they should and sometimes it is just a case of 'reprogramming' our bodies to work the way they should.

To illustrate. My body has issues with carbs. I don't think, from that point of view that I am any different to anyone else, but its just that my body is more sensitive than other people's. Not being able to deal with or process the carbs properly has forced my body into functioning a different way than the way it should.

Had I been following this healthy, naturally fairly low-carb diet from the start then it is highly likely that 1) my body would not have needed to store fat, and 2) I may well never have become Diabetic. I know it worked because on the odd occasions I did follow a lower-carb regime, I lost weight and my health issues disappeared - but ever those tempting carby things called me back.

Now, having reigned the carbs back in, I am trying to retrain my body back into fat-burning mode, rather than carb-burning.

If I eat any carby stuff before bed I am far more likely to have a hypo at some point in the middle of the night. If I get plenty of good fats during the day, I don't even want the chocolate, am happy not to eat after my dinner, don't feel the urge to snack in front of the TV in the evening (always a problem), go to bed with normal blood sugar readings and don't have any hypos. What I have done is force my body into using fat as fuel rather than glucose.

Because it is a short-term energy booster, the liver doesn't actually store very much of it. you eat something relatively high-carb, the Pancreas, in its panic shoots out a load of insulin to try and bring it down as quickly as possible, invariably it overshoots and the BS plummets. You are then sent hunger signals, eat more carb and the cycle starts all over again.

Many people are irritable in the morning (in fact, my husband was always like a bear with a sore head - and especially in the night if woken up) until they have had their breakfast, which invariably is more carbs. What they ate the night before was not enough to keep their blood sugar elevated. If they were not having the carbs and their body was using fat for fuel, that would not happen.

That was me. Staggering from one BS yo-yo to another. Eventually it threw in the towel, my cells got weary of having this constant barrage of sugar thrown at them and put up the barriers. I became Diabetic.

Had I stuck to the low-carb, all natural, medium protein and higher fat regime it wouldn't have happened. Carbs are behind this rapidly rising epidemic of Obesity, Diabetes, and hundreds of other health issues.

Just because one isn't overweight does not preclude blood sugar issues. Their bodies just deal with it differently.

PS. It seems that putting oil-based salad dressing on to salads is not just a 'pretty-face'. Apparently the oils help the body absorb the fat-based vitamins and minerals in the salad. Without fats those nutrients will go straight through. It doesn't have to be a dressing - eating fatty foods like cheese or fish with the salad will do the same thing.

[OliveBranch]

Hi Pele,

Thanks for your thoughts here, and for those in an earlier response to me that I only just saw today. As of yesterday, I have, painfully, cut out the dairy . Ironically, I had just made some awesome almond-flour muffins using the yogurt (but no other casein). I've frozen them, and I'm hoping to give them a try again in a few days -- but it will be longer before I try cheese, etc, again. I'm also maintaining some hope that my increased symptoms now might be either die-off or withdrawal, rather than a new intolerance, so perhaps they will improve.

I'm very glad to know that you're doing well on the diet, even without the yogurt!

best,

Emily

[YoloGx]

Am finding I should go off fruit as well as the cheese--and for now the honey is out of the question. My old skin reactions are coming back plus I notice my urine is starting to get cloudy if I have these items. The good news is that I now know I can have these things if I really want to--but just once in a while at this point. Its nice to now have a yogurt in any case that does not bother me plus I can eat home made yogurt cheese, which is great.

I agree with Ali that there is much about us as humans that is basically the same. However I also believe we have individual quirks. We don't all react the same to everything.

For some here on the scd they can handle eating the fruit, cheese, almonds and honey and the yogurt without problem. For others some or many of those items remain difficult at best.

Nevertheless, it is very likely that I wouldn't have as many allergic reactions to a variety of foods or have the same problems with yeast overgrowth if I had been made aware of having celiac as a child or even as a young adult. I should have been told since I developed celiac as an infant. Because I developed severe kidney problems I discovered I was not able to tolerate eating a vegetarian diet as a young adult; thus I started eating meat again despite the received wisdom at the time. As it was, even though I ate a comparatively excellent diet with lots of vegetables and fruit and not a big emphasis on carbs I still got messed up. I started avoiding glutenous grains when I was 30. Around age 40 I started eating a more paleo diet. I went off all gluten (except for the trace glutens I was not aware of) at age 45. I still got messed up. Someone else might have reacted differently, and most do. That is all I am saying.

However I agree that if we as a culture relied less on (especially empty) carbohydrates most of us would be better off health wise--and we would have far fewer blood sugar, immune and degenerative issues. Plus if more knowledge was put out there about celiac and gluten intolerance and how gluten is not that great actually for anyone, I agree, a lot of people would be a lot more healthy than they are now.

Bea

[AliB]

As of yesterday, I have, painfully, cut out the dairy . Ironically, I had just made some awesome almond-flour muffins using the yogurt (but no other casein). I've frozen them, and I'm hoping to give them a try again in a few days -- but it will be longer before I try cheese, etc, again. I'm also maintaining some hope that my increased symptoms now might be either die-off or withdrawal, rather than a new intolerance, so perhaps they will improve.

Bear in mind Emily that cooking the yogurt kills the bacteria so it will not give you the benefit that the raw yogurt will. Hopefully it will be ok though as it still has a lot less lactose and the changed casein, so you may be ok with the muffins.

Some (including me) have found nuts difficult to cope with initially. I am ok with them now - that improved a lot after I started the coconut oil.

[OliveBranch]

Yes, I have thought of this... but at least I'll probably get a better idea of whether casein is a problem. There's just a small amount of yogurt involved (1/4 cup spread out in 8 muffins), and if this goes okay, then I'll try a small amount of the raw yogurt again, and then build from there.

I'm also being wary of nuts, and staying away from them at least until Friday, when I plan to try the muffin again.

I ogled some coconut oil on a store shelf today -- almost bought it, but it was so expensive! I may yet buy it soon....

Bear in mind Emily that cooking the yogurt kills the bacteria so it will not give you the benefit that the raw yogurt will. Hopefully it will be ok though as it still has a lot less lactose and the changed casein, so you may be ok with the muffins.

Some (including me) have found nuts difficult to cope with initially. I am ok with them now - that improved a lot after I started the coconut oil.

[fig girl]

Michelle,

As mentioned above, watch out for the sorbitol, it really messed up my progress, and I'm so much better since I stopped taking the B-sublinguals containing sorbitol. Hope it doesn't bother you, but do keep an eye on it ...

Thanks Jan. So far i can't tell that it's bothering me besides leaving a bad taste but i rinse, brush my teeth and brush my tongue after taking it and that helps. I really don't like taking it since it has the illegal sorbitol but it is helping my stomach. I see my Dr. tomorrow so i'll find out how long i should take it.

Did your supplements list the illegal ingredients on the bottle or did you have to call the company? I'm taking the SCD Freeda multivitamin which is safe and my b-complex, active b-6 and vitamin D3 is from pure encapsulations so i think they're safe according to the ingredients on the bottle and they don't seem to bother me.

I'm doing much better after eliminating the goat yogurt and i've also stopped my hrt which the prometrium capsules i was taking had peanut oil and lecithin made from soy (i think) so it could have been both or one of these that bothered me. I had switched to the compounding cream of prometrium and it seemed to bother my stomach a little also but not as bad as the oral. So, i'm glad i'm not taking them now and hopefully will continue to do ok off of them - i think the SCD has helped me to do well without the hrt.

[fig girl]

All about eggs:

Meanwhile I am still leery about using eggs. Historically I get migraines from them, though one egg cooked in food now and then has been relatively OK, though even then I am not entirely certain; I did have trouble with various goodies using grains with the egg added when I was just doing the gluten free foods. The plain pancakes (mainly using ancient grains like teff, amaranth and sorghum) without the eggs were always easier on me. You get the point.

I notice a lot of the desserts for the scd depend on eggs. Is there any kind of scd OK binder that might work instead of eggs? Am guessing from my own past experiments in making alternative muffins etc. that squash and/or bananas might be the answer?? Anyone figured how much squash/banana would replace an egg?

Bea

Bea,

I just read where you're off fruit (sorry to hear that and hope you can add it back in soon) but i found some of my notes when i was trying some of the scd desserts without eggs and here's some things i jotted down to use in place of eggs:

1/2 cup applesauce = 2 eggs

1/4 cup applesauce = 1 egg

1 banana = 1 egg

using gelatin - before starting your recipe combine 1 tsp unflavored (Knox) gelatin with 3 T cold water and 2 T plus 1 tsp of boiling water. This mixture = 1 egg

I've also used pureed pears which worked really well but can't find an amount that i used but probably is close to the same as the above applesauce amounts. I remember reading that egg replacers are good for recipes calling for 1 - 2 eggs but any more than that may not work very well. Hopefully you're tolerating eggs now and won't need these!

Michelle

[fig girl]

Hi Emily

A few short weeks after I started the SCD I discovered that dairy makes me sleepy, dull, and forgetful. I eliminated all dairy and felt much better. I still don't use any dairy products. I am going to a doctor who says some people have a kind of metabolism that converts dairy to an opiate-like substance. It wasn't until I eliminated all the junk from my diet that it became obvious, plus I was eating more dairy because I didn't know what else to eat.

You can succeed on the diet without yogurt.

I realized about a month ago that's how i feel eating the yogurt. I was doing the same since i'm so restricted in my foods so i would sometimes eat a good bit of yogurt at one sitting and i could really tell after eating more than usual. I will try it again maybe after a long while and i'll make the yogurt with raw goat milk and start off with very little just to test. Thanks Pele for the info and describing really well how i felt after eating the yogurt. I finally realized it when on Monday's i have a meeting right after lunch and noticed i felt like that in the meetings but after eliminating it i felt so much better and much more alert in the meetings - a pretty big difference.

[YoloGx]

Bea,

I just read where you're off fruit (sorry to hear that and hope you can add it back in soon) but i found some of my notes when i was trying some of the scd desserts without eggs and here's some things i jotted down to use in place of eggs:

1/2 cup applesauce = 2 eggs

1/4 cup applesauce = 1 egg

1 banana = 1 egg

using gelatin - before starting your recipe combine 1 tsp unflavored (Knox) gelatin with 3 T cold water and 2 T plus 1 tsp of boiling water. This mixture = 1 egg

I've also used pureed pears which worked really well but can't find an amount that i used but probably is close to the same as the above applesauce amounts. I remember reading that egg replacers are good for recipes calling for 1 - 2 eggs but any more than that may not work very well. Hopefully you're tolerating eggs now and won't need these!

Michelle

Hi Michelle,

Thanks for the advice! Squash I think would make a good egg replacer too, though without the nuts either it gets a bit iffy... I might be able to use sunflower seeds instead of the nuts however.

I did eat an egg the other day and it seemed like it was OK. At this point I am going to limit it to once a week to start since my reaction to eggs was so bad in the past.

I will likely have to limit fruit too once the candida dies down again. Fruit for me is so very addicting...esp. the grapes and bananas. No doubt they feed the yeast--and then those beasties want more! I may have to go back to blueberries and blackberries in the future when I do eat fruit. I ate papaya and that was the final straw!

The gelatin seems like a very good idea meanwhile, esp. for a pudding like dessert.

Bea

[YoloGx]

About the B-complex. I don't tolerate sorbitol at all either, so sublinguals have been out. However I also have had difficulty making adequate use of regular B vitamins. Fortunately I discovered that Country Life makes some good co-enzyme B vitamins. I take them on an empty stomach. They are great since they go directly into the blood stream instead of having to go through the liver to be made use of. Its necessary for me to take the B's since I am low on B-1--necessary for adequate protein and carbohydrate utilization--which was probably one of the major factors why I got celiac as a 4 month old baby! Thus the covering on my nerves was perilously inadequate when I had some lab tests taken 3 or 4 years ago. I used to shake and get confused and got anxious easily over nothing plus my heart would rattle around way too easily. That isn't happening any more. My memory is improving too. For me the anti gluten, scd diet plus these B's are making a huge dif. for the better. Yay!

Bea

[lonewolf]

Hi everyone, I just had to pop in here and share some successes I've had with recipes and getting my son to eat new foods.

Yesterday morning we had "breakfast burritos". I made up some homemade "sausage" with ground turkey, salt, garlic, basil and oregano and cooked it into crumbles. While it was cooking I beat some eggs and made little thin omlets, flipping them over like crepes. We stuffed the sausage into the egg wrappers and enjoyed our burritos. Next time I'll add onions and red peppers with the meat.

Monday afternoon I baked several batches of muffins. I "cheated" and used canned pumpkin, but I read somewhere that someone contacted Libby's and that they guaranteed that there isn't any sugar or starch added to their pumpkin, but for some reason they didn't get a letter about it. Anyway, I made pumpkin muffins with pecans ground almost into butter and banana muffins, also with pecans. They were a big hit with all my kids (3 teenagers and a 12 year old) and we ate muffins and smoothies for breakfast today.

At dinner I sauteed zucchini "noodles" (cut into julienne strips with my new mandolin) in olive oil, a bit of butter, salt and garlic. YUM! My son asked for more and then asked me to make more after dinner. It really was like eating pasta! I'll be making spaghetti and meatballs soon!

A few questions for the more knowledgable SCD people out there. Is there some kind of list online somewhere that lists some safe products? I know that we're supposed to call the manufacturers about everything we're not sure about, but it seems like reinventing the wheel if 10,000 people all call the same companies. I'd like to know if there are safe canned tomato products (I've heard that Muir Glen whole tomatoes are), any type of deli meat, garlic powder and anything else that would make this even slightly more convenient.

Thanks!

[pele]

Hi LIz

Great news! The breakfast burritos sound fabulous, what a good idea. And I'm glad they are all enjoying pumpkin and banana muffins.

I don't know of any list of legal canned or processed foods. There are a couple of brands of "natural" sugarless deli meats--Applegate Farm and Distel (sp?) makes some. When I embarked on this diet, I would buy deli sliced turkey, hot dogs, etc., but I stopped buying them because I didn't think I was digesting them well. I felt better without them. One day I asked the guy at the deli counter for a "use by" date, and he looked at the hunk of turkey and gave me a date about three weeks into the future. I was shocked. How long do those things sit around after they are cooked? Yuck! Isn't the idea to get rid of the bad bacteria, not eat it? Now I usually throw an extra ground meat patty into the frying pan at breakast, and pack it for lunch. If I am feeling really ambitious, I buy a chuck roast or turkey thighs, bake, slice, pack into lunch-sized portions and freeze. Then I can grab one on my way out the door.

I have used Muir Glen canned tomatoes, and felt guilty but othewise fine.

[fig girl]

Hi everyone, I just had to pop in here and share some successes I've had with recipes and getting my son to eat new foods.

Yesterday morning we had "breakfast burritos". I made up some homemade "sausage" with ground turkey, salt, garlic, basil and oregano and cooked it into crumbles. While it was cooking I beat some eggs and made little thin omlets, flipping them over like crepes. We stuffed the sausage into the egg wrappers and enjoyed our burritos. Next time I'll add onions and red peppers with the meat.

Monday afternoon I baked several batches of muffins. I "cheated" and used canned pumpkin, but I read somewhere that someone contacted Libby's and that they guaranteed that there isn't any sugar or starch added to their pumpkin, but for some reason they didn't get a letter about it. Anyway, I made pumpkin muffins with pecans ground almost into butter and banana muffins, also with pecans. They were a big hit with all my kids (3 teenagers and a 12 year old) and we ate muffins and smoothies for breakfast today.

At dinner I sauteed zucchini "noodles" (cut into julienne strips with my new mandolin) in olive oil, a bit of butter, salt and garlic. YUM! My son asked for more and then asked me to make more after dinner. It really was like eating pasta! I'll be making spaghetti and meatballs soon!

A few questions for the more knowledgable SCD people out there. Is there some kind of list online somewhere that lists some safe products? I know that we're supposed to call the manufacturers about everything we're not sure about, but it seems like reinventing the wheel if 10,000 people all call the same companies. I'd like to know if there are safe canned tomato products (I've heard that Muir Glen whole tomatoes are), any type of deli meat, garlic powder and anything else that would make this even slightly more convenient.

Thanks!

Hi Liz,

Nomorecrohns.com has a list of SCD prepared products as well as great SCD info and recipes. Here's the link to the products list:

Open Original Shared Link

This is the only list i can recall seeing on-line - there may be another one that i don't know about or can't think of right off hand. Hope this helps!

Michelle

[lonewolf]

Hi Liz,

Nomorecrohns.com has a list of SCD prepared products as well as great SCD info and recipes. Here's the link to the products list:

Open Original Shared Link

This is the only list i can recall seeing on-line - there may be another one that i don't know about or can't think of right off hand. Hope this helps!

Michelle

Thanks! I've seen the list there. I know that there isn't one person or group in charge of the diet, but it just seems like it would be so much easier if there was a place that everyone could report to when they get a letter from a company. I wonder if some companies get tired of people calling asking the same question!

[Ms Jan]

Did your supplements list the illegal ingredients on the bottle or did you have to call the company? I'm taking the SCD Freeda multivitamin which is safe and my b-complex, active b-6 and vitamin D3 is from pure encapsulations so i think they're safe according to the ingredients on the bottle and they don't seem to bother me.

Michelle,

I did find the illegal ingredients listed - but often in not very visible places (like one bottle of multivitamins seemed to have all ingredients listed on the outside, and stated gluten, yeast free etc - then on the back of the label they also listed corn starch ...). And then there were a few technical words I hadn't recognized but which turned out to be on the illegal list. But I think you're safe with the Freeda, or anything bought specifically to be SCD legal.

Glad the SCD is making you feel better.

[roxnhead]

Questions about coconut Oil?

I purchased my first jar of extra virgin cocunut oil, suggested use 1 tablespoon 2 to 3 times daily.

I know I can cook with it as an oil but how else does one eat it. I am on a SCD/Paleo diet and trying to decrease fruits. Any Suggestions? Donna

[YoloGx]

Questions about coconut Oil?

I purchased my first jar of extra virgin cocunut oil, suggested use 1 tablespoon 2 to 3 times daily.

I know I can cook with it as an oil but how else does one eat it. I am on a SCD/Paleo diet and trying to decrease fruits. Any Suggestions? Donna

I put it on cooked squash and greens just before I eat them. Also not bad as part of the oil for salad...

[AliB]

As Bea suggests above I put it on my cooked veggies. Some people add a spoonful to their hot drinks - although it tends to float on the top. You can cook with it, you can add it to soups, or stews, mash it in with cooked fruit, use it as a spread. Personally, I like it enough to just eat it off the spoon, but then it is colder here in the UK and it is still firm at room temp.

[pele]

Hi Liz,

Nomorecrohns.com has a list of SCD prepared products as well as great SCD info and recipes. Here's the link to the products list:

Open Original Shared Link

This is the only list i can recall seeing on-line - there may be another one that i don't know about or can't think of right off hand. Hope this helps!

Michelle

Thanks for posting the link to the prepared food list. I took a look and I see that Elaine approved canned Dole Pineapple. Funny thing is my sweet husband brought some home for me a few weeks ago and it now contains both "clarified pineapple juice concentrate'" and citric acid. Would Elaine still approve, I wonder?

[YoloGx]

Zuchinni cheddar cheese/shrimp casserole:

I came up with a scd casserole recipe using zuchinni, cheese and shrimp(or chicken etc.) as a base. I sliced two foot long (plus) zuchinnis up--and chopped them fairly thin. I put one whole chopped and sliced zuchinni in an oiled deep roughly 10 inch square pan, then added a layer of fresh chopped basil, chives, and some fresh sprinkled thyme from my garden. If you don't have them fresh, improvise!

On top of that I layered 1/2 of a green pepper, cut into small sections and then chopped. Ditto with 2 Roma tomatoes. I then sliced and then chopped approximately 1/3 cup worth of cheddar cheese and distributed it around the pan evenly with roughly 1/2 cup already cooked shrimp, medium sized.

Then I did it all over again, putting another layer of chopped zuchinni, then chopped herbs, the other half of the green pepper and two more tomatoes and cheese plus another 1/2 cup shrimp (or chicken or whatever) with a little salt sprinkled around.

On top of that I put another layer of finely sliced zuchinni, with another one or two chopped tomatos and 1/3 cup chopped or grated cheddar cheese.

On top of all that I drizzled two tablespoons of olive oil (coconut oil could be used alternately). Olives could be added if desired.

Bake at 350 degrees for roughly 45 minutes. I used a convection oven. Enjoy!

Note: For those able to eat eggs, one or more raw whisked eggs could have been added in the middle layers mixed in say with the vegetables before they are distributed around the pan.

Without the eggs it was a little watery but still very nice. The baked herbs, cheese, tomatoes and shrimp make it very tasty. I had seconds.

I ate a salad with it and my friend just added some fresh spinach. Which got me to thinking that adding some chopped greens to the recipe might be nice too...

Bea

[pele]

Awhile back we were having a discussion about table salt, even sea salt, containing dextrose, an ingredient that is illegal on the SCD.

I have since switched to using Celtic Sea Salt, which has no addititives and tastes really good. It is supposed to be full of beneficial trace minerals. It costs more but I have decided it is so far superior to refined salt that it is worth it.

[pele]

Zuchinni cheddar cheese/shrimp casserole:

Bea

This sounds really good. I might have to try a dairy-free version. Thanks for posting it!