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AliB

Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD)

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Pele, good question. I've pondered the connection of stress to my symptoms but it doesn't seem to have a direct pattern. If I am not feeling well, my tolerance of stress goes down, and yet when I feel better it seems to bounce right back. Also sometimes I'm sick in a non stress period and fine in a stress period. Unless my responses are quite delayed. Sometimes it seems like after a busy period I get sick, but that isn't consistent either.

Michelle, I have seen a number of posts about bloating and C related to dairy, even on SCD. I hate to give up the yogurt entirely; I am somewhat allergic to cow's milk but not goat's milk. I'm trying a couple of tablespoons 2-3 times daily. Still doing okay so far and bm was much better today. My C at this point is more a problem with motility, where my system seems to go into a spasm and nothing moves down (not painful).

I'm going to look into fermenting some veggies or something, to supplement good bacteria. I know that is essential for me, not just because it is a principle of SCD but because I am on long term antibiotics.

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Need some advice. We're going on a family vacation to Disney in Florida in a month and wanted to know any tips about eating out. Anyone been to disney and know of good locations to eat and which meals, etc. I'm going to prepare most meals, but would like to venture out once and awhile for the family.

Thanks..

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I have a similar question for Portland, Oregon. I'd love to find a safe place to eat out that isn't hugely expensive, so I can meet friends/family for a meal. I get tired of carrying my food to any and every social event.

Rhoger1, how far advanced are you on the diet? If you are handling nuts, and have access to a fridge, you can make muffins or other things up ahead, and carry them with you to the restaurant. I don't know about Florida, but I had one good experience in a "mom & pop" place in Oregon that wasn't busy, the cook was willing to steam some salmon and steam some vegetables. They were very plain, and they brought me butter and salt/pepper. I had my muffins along (because I thought I couldn't eat), and ended up enjoying a wonderful meal. If a place is busier, maybe you can call ahead and order something?

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I'm going to look into fermenting some veggies or something, to supplement good bacteria. I know that is essential for me, not just because it is a principle of SCD but because I am on long term antibiotics.

There are lots of recipes on the internet for kimchi, sauerkraut and other fermented vegetables. I've been experimenting for a few months. Now that I have my own homegrown chinese cabbage, the kimchi is pretty good. I use honey in place of sugar and do not use any prepared kimchi sauce. I just started my first batch of sauerkraut with homegrown cabbage.

And to anyone torn about giving up dairy, I suggest going dairy free for a week or so, then trying a challenge. When I did this, I found I felt so much better without it that I don't miss it much.

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Pele, what do the fermented veggies taste like? I've never cared for sauerkraut, and kimchi is so spicy hot here I've not even been interested.

Chinese cabbage is common here of course, so that would be a good thing for me to try, I suppose.

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Well, I think I have to try making the probiotic cabbage juice I'm reading about on many sites. That sounds palatable, and would give me an alternative to goat milk, at least for a DF trial. Also just the liquid I should be able to tolerate.

Was doing fine for a couple of days and today, another bout of nausea, bloating, achy. I'm still thinking it is a build up kind of thing; for nutrition sake I have been eating more cooked veggies and meat, and some almond crackers. I've cut way back on the yogurt but can't tell a difference. It almost always hits me later in the day, toward the evening meal.

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Hi Sherry, my bloating is worse in the evenings and the early night. I was getting the pressure build up like I had before that was squashing everything and I could feel my liver pressed against my back - heart banging away and a shivering attack again the night before last.

What I had changed was to having yogurt with some fruit and nuts for breakfast over the last 3 or 4 days. Something in that combination was causing me grief so I have backed off it and had a couple of scrambled eggs for breakfast today with plenty of butter and coconut oil. So far it doesn't seem so bad.

I had some coconut oil before i went to bed last night and spent the next half hour or so burping so something was shifting, and I slept after that so presumably it settled it somewhat. I still have a pop belly today so it still isn't right - maybe I just need to avoid the yogurt and probiotics for a while and see if it makes any difference.

Whether it is the yogurt, or whether it is just because it is dairy I haven't a clue. Other times I seem to be able to eat it without any problems. Perhaps its the nuts? The words 'banging', 'head' and 'brick wall' come to mind.

Sometimes even just plain water seems to make me bloat!

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I find it interesting that so many of us have set-backs related to stress. This happens to me, too. Do we get stressed easily becuase of longterm digestive issues? Does stress go right to our guts? Are our stress-fighting capabilities severely limited due to gut disease? In my case, I think all of the above.

Hi Pele,

I agree, I think all of the above too. I seem to be able to deal with it a little better after being gluten-free and being on the SCD - i stay more calm now when stressed but my gut will still feel it. :(

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Michelle,

This is very interesting since I have exactly the same white spots around my shoulders, lower neck. It itches when it gets warm, but otherwise it doesn't bother me much, nor is it very visible. Only, it's there and doesn't go away - think I've had it for about 4-5 years. I have noticed that it seems to be better since I started the SCD. And I also rub coconut oil onto the skin in some periods, which definately helps, although it hasn't cured it yet. No dr has been able to tell me what it is (surprise! :lol: ), but I'm also convinced it's some kind of tiny funghi, so it definately does sound the same. Did the article mention any cures for it?

Jan

Hi Jan,

That is interesting that you have this also. Mine will itch occasionally also and it seems like the area on my right bicep used to itch and be more noticeable when i got out in the sun. I finally found the name (i think i was way off in my earlier post!) :P The name is tinea versicolor. Below is a link about it. I googled tinea versicolor and gluten and got some information. I've read some prescription creams are usually prescribed but don't help that much. Some people use Apple cider vinegar or a baking soda paste or coconut oil....so we're on the right track. Some mentioned going gluten free cleared it up. I'm going to keep putting coconut oil on mine to see if it'll help.

I thought it was amazing when i came across this and realized this could be what it is. I've never known what it is and have had the place on my arm since i was little. Let me know how you continue to do with the coconut oil...i hope it clears it up for both of us.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/tinea-versicolor/ds00635

Michelle

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Well, I think I have to try making the probiotic cabbage juice I'm reading about on many sites. That sounds palatable, and would give me an alternative to goat milk, at least for a DF trial. Also just the liquid I should be able to tolerate.

Was doing fine for a couple of days and today, another bout of nausea, bloating, achy. I'm still thinking it is a build up kind of thing; for nutrition sake I have been eating more cooked veggies and meat, and some almond crackers. I've cut way back on the yogurt but can't tell a difference. It almost always hits me later in the day, toward the evening meal.

Hi Sherry and Pele,

I'll have to check out the fermented foods recipes again. A while back i had read about them on pecanbread.com and have wanted to try them but just never have. I think i might be ok on the cabbage or i could try carrots at first maybe. Hmm, i'll have to pay more attention when i have bloating to see if it occurs at the same time of day each time.

Thanks Pele for the dairy free tip - i may try staying off it for a week and see. I just made some so i'll eat a little of it and then omit it for a week (i don't want it to go bad in case it doesn't bother me!) :)

Michelle

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Hi Sherry, my bloating is worse in the evenings and the early night. I was getting the pressure build up like I had before that was squashing everything and I could feel my liver pressed against my back - heart banging away and a shivering attack again the night before last.

What I had changed was to having yogurt with some fruit and nuts for breakfast over the last 3 or 4 days. Something in that combination was causing me grief so I have backed off it and had a couple of scrambled eggs for breakfast today with plenty of butter and coconut oil. So far it doesn't seem so bad.

I had some coconut oil before i went to bed last night and spent the next half hour or so burping so something was shifting, and I slept after that so presumably it settled it somewhat. I still have a pop belly today so it still isn't right - maybe I just need to avoid the yogurt and probiotics for a while and see if it makes any difference.

Whether it is the yogurt, or whether it is just because it is dairy I haven't a clue. Other times I seem to be able to eat it without any problems. Perhaps its the nuts? The words 'banging', 'head' and 'brick wall' come to mind.

Sometimes even just plain water seems to make me bloat!

Hi Ali,

Yum! Your scrambled eggs, butter and coconut oil sound really tasty! Here's hoping one day i'll be able to eat that for breakfast...fingers crossed! :)

Michelle

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Pele, what do the fermented veggies taste like? I've never cared for sauerkraut, and kimchi is so spicy hot here I've not even been interested.

Chinese cabbage is common here of course, so that would be a good thing for me to try, I suppose.

Everyone who has tried my sauerkraut says it tastes salty. I think it tastes like the stuff from the store. When I make kimchi, I use only a bit of red pepper so it's not too hot for me. When it is new it tastes like whatever you put in it, after a few days it gets tangy. I call it kimchi, but a Korean cook would probably roll her eyes. I think I'll look up fermented cabbage juice, since I went a little crazy planting cabbage!

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Speaking of being able to eat things someday:

I went a little crazy yesterday eating fruit. We are in the middle of fruit season here so it's easy.

I started off with a handful of bing cherries from the tree. After breakfast I drove to a u-pick blueberry place and picked about 14 pounds. I kept eating a few and kept telling myself "Don't eat any more!!" Hah. I took them home and washed them for the freezer and ate a few more. Then I went outside and got up on the ladder and picked about 8 pounds of cherries and every time I found one with a spot on it I ate the good half. I ate some whole ones, too.

At dinner time I made blueberry muffins from the BTVC recipe. Wow! My first SCD blueberry muffins! I had two with dinner and dreamed about them last night.

After dinner we pitted the cherries and froze them and I managed to eat more, then had fruit sorbet for dessert. Oh, and every time I passed the raspberry patch all day I stopped to eat some.

Last summer this kind of fruit grazing would have given me gas and bloating. It didn't this year.

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Hi Sherry, my bloating is worse in the evenings and the early night. ...

Whether it is the yogurt, or whether it is just because it is dairy I haven't a clue. Other times I seem to be able to eat it without any problems. Perhaps its the nuts? The words 'banging', 'head' and 'brick wall' come to mind.

Sometimes even just plain water seems to make me bloat!

Ali, yeah, this is also my experience. Like I cut back on the yogurt and bloat anyway. Eat the same stuff the next day and don't bloat.

I do think that the food combining idea may have merit. The next 2 days will be very light with just carbs for the liver f., and even though it is "carbs" my swelling and bloating have been going down when I do that.

I've got my cabbage juice going. :)

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Pele, after reading your post I am homesick for the NW! :)

Ali, have you considered the oxylate issue? A friend just mentioned that again, and I looked over the list. A few things did click, so I'm thinking of trying tracking that next week and see if it makes a difference.

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Speaking of being able to eat things someday:

I went a little crazy yesterday eating fruit. We are in the middle of fruit season here so it's easy.

I started off with a handful of bing cherries from the tree. After breakfast I drove to a u-pick blueberry place and picked about 14 pounds. I kept eating a few and kept telling myself "Don't eat any more!!" Hah. I took them home and washed them for the freezer and ate a few more. Then I went outside and got up on the ladder and picked about 8 pounds of cherries and every time I found one with a spot on it I ate the good half. I ate some whole ones, too.

At dinner time I made blueberry muffins from the BTVC recipe. Wow! My first SCD blueberry muffins! I had two with dinner and dreamed about them last night.

After dinner we pitted the cherries and froze them and I managed to eat more, then had fruit sorbet for dessert. Oh, and every time I passed the raspberry patch all day I stopped to eat some.

Last summer this kind of fruit grazing would have given me gas and bloating. It didn't this year.

Hi Pele,

Yum! I'm glad all of the yummy sounding fruit didn't bother you....this gives me great hope! I'm on my second day of no dairy - i'm going to try avoiding it for a week to see if it helps, maybe so. I love bing cherries and blueberries....i really hope to enjoy them again one day. :)

Michelle

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Hey all! I found this and it makes very interesting reading - especially the section on Crohn's and the mention of gluten intolerance.

It is a whole chapter of a book abridged on the BTVC website - for those who are prepared to read it all, it may well give you more insight into why the SCD works and why gluten-free alone, for many, doesn't.

Ali.

http://www.scdiet.org/7archives/lutz/lutz7.html

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Hey all! I found this and it makes very interesting reading - especially the section on Crohn's and the mention of gluten intolerance.

It is a whole chapter of a book abridged on the BTVC website - for those who are prepared to read it all, it may well give you more insight into why the SCD works and why gluten-free alone, for many, doesn't.

Ali.

http://www.scdiet.org/7archives/lutz/lutz7.html

Hi Ali,

Thanks for the post....that is very interesting. I have to have a colonoscopy this year (have one every 3 yrs) and i've never had an endoscopy so i'm getting one at the same time. I've seen Dr. Rudert in Atlanta a few times and i've decided to have her perform these since i think she would know what all to look for - hopefully i don't have crohn's or anything else going on. Her fees will be out of network on my insurance but the facility is in network so hopefully i won't go into too much debt. :P I've been saving for it as i have to reach my deductible also.

The last time i tried chicken broth or jello they bothered me so the day before may be just water for me. :( Any ideas on what i might be able to consume? Luckily it's scheduled for a Monday so i'll be at home starving on a Sunday and not trying to work. I'm going to ask Dr. Rudert's office and i've got to ask them what type of prep they would recommend also. I might could boil some chicken breasts for the least amount of time and drink that? Rinne had suggested that my problem could be from the long cooked broth and once i shortened the time it seemed to help but i think it still may have bothered me a little so i cut it out all together. I wonder if i can juice anything - i'm not eating any fruit except ripe banana though. If i can juice greens i can juice lettuce, or broccoli. I'm sure carrot juice is out - nothing red, orange or purple i believe. Thanks for any ideas! :)

Michelle

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Michelle,

This is very interesting since I have exactly the same white spots around my shoulders, lower neck. It itches when it gets warm, but otherwise it doesn't bother me much, nor is it very visible. Only, it's there and doesn't go away - think I've had it for about 4-5 years. I have noticed that it seems to be better since I started the SCD. And I also rub coconut oil onto the skin in some periods, which definately helps, although it hasn't cured it yet. No dr has been able to tell me what it is (surprise! :lol: ), but I'm also convinced it's some kind of tiny funghi, so it definately does sound the same. Did the article mention any cures for it?

Jan

Hi Jan,

I just realized the other day that i used to have the white skin discoloration on the top part of my back also and it's not really there anymore. It used to itch also - still does occasionally but not much. I guess it cleared up after going gluten-free and starting scd. I'm still putting coconut oil on my arm and neck. I can't see much difference yet but hopefully it'll help. I'm going to try to remember to tell my GP about it when i see her next.

Michelle

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Hi Michelle.

I have been doing some research on toxins and the fact that fat is a toxin store.

Some like me may well have a weight problem - these days I find it difficult to shift weight and I definitely have a lot of toxins floating about in my body at the moment - my lymph glands keep swelling up which is a sure sign.

I think that sometimes even slim people can have issues with toxins. Whereas some bodies will hive toxins the liver can't deal with off into fat cells, others may not work so well in that department, but still not be able to eliminate toxins very well.

Even in animals toxins will be stored in their fat cells and as the long cooking draws out a lot of stuff from the carcase including the bones and fat as well as the meat I suppose it is possible that you could be getting unwanted toxins from that source.

I am not sure that even 'organic' meat and veg isn't contaminated in some way - it's almost impossible to escape it these days. Maybe they are not given drugs or anything and graze on pasture, but what about any supplemental feed?

I haven't had the white skin on my back but I have had a very itchy back for years (and it used to be spotty) and am now convinced that it has been linked to my liver and its struggle to cope. I reckon that as you age and the skin thickens and becomes less pliable it is less effective as a detoxifying organ. It means you don't get the spots any more, but it also means that the toxins have one less way of getting out.

The fact that your back issue cleared up after going gluten-free does suggest that not only did the removal of gluten and wheat products and other high-carb stuff lower the toxic burden, but lowered it enough that your liver has started to be able to deal with the toxins better.

I am doing as much as I can to avoid placing my body under more burden. I use very little in the way of chemicals and try to keep my food fairly organic, but I am sure I could do more in that line. I have realised that my liver started to struggle back when I hit puberty - I was 15 which was when the fatigue started - I was a podgy tired adolescent, and have been a fat tired adult all my adult life.

Something stressed my liver - maybe it just wasn't up to the job from the start, or maybe I was exposed to something as a child - I haven't a clue. I used to get a lot of colds and childhood illnesses when young, so my body wasn't very good at dealing with stuff even back then and it has been struggling ever since.

Sometimes I wish I could unzip myself and have a really good look!

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Ali,

Thanks for the article link. Very interesting, does explain a lot of what's going on. And also why the SCD is helping so many different symptoms/ailments.

I was a sickly child as well. And I believe for me it was simply the undiscovered gluten intolerance (and other food allergies) that produced a vast array of symptoms, since the immune system was overburdened with fighting off the gliadin toxins and thus couldn't fight ordinary viruses and colds. Then down the line the body just got more and more overburdened with worse and worse symptoms being added, till I couldn't fight it any more and ended up here ... :lol:

And Michelle,

I'll keep an eye on the white spots and see if they go away when I've been longer on the SCD.

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I might have made some progress with bloating, C and fatigue, though I have to give it longer to make sure it is a shift. I went to all low oxalate foods last Sunday (SCD compliant). So far this has been the best week in quite a few. I did bloat last night; my explanations is raisins. I ate quite a few, and though low oxalate, on SCD is it more advanced. But the last two days BM in am has been much better (I was doing really well until about 3 months ago), fatigue/brain fog is better--improving all week, and bloating is better except last night.

This gives me quite a short list of possible foods, but if it works, I am willing to stick with it as I have been miserable. And my one cup of yogurt during the week had no negative impact; I've been using fermented cabbage juice as the main probiotic.

From my reading I think if I have this problem, I'm guessing it indicates more gut damage. Especially since it has worsened recently. I'm also intrigued by one thing I read--that B6 and zinc helps this problem. That's the same thing that helps kryptopyrroluria (still waiting for my test results on that.) I'm also suspicious that the recent downturn was connected to the parasite/protozoan and abx treatments which may have killed off the gut organism that helps break down oxalates.

It is frustrating that instead of my foods increasing over time on SCD, I've had to get stricter. I'm still committed to SCD as I know it helps, just wish I could find all the other pieces of the puzzle.

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. I did bloat last night; my explanations is raisins. I ate quite a few, and though low oxalate, on SCD is it more advanced.

I have no problem eating my own home-dehydrated fruit made from local, unsprayed fruit, but when I ate store bought organic raisins they made me a little bit sick. It really makes me wonder what the heck is in commercial dried fruit besides fruit.

Sherry, did you make your own fermented cabbage juice? And if so, what did you use for a starter?

And Sherry, I assume you are gluten intolerant and ate gluten for many years. Do you think some of your gut problems are due to areas of the small intestine that have not healed yet and are unable to assimilate food and nutrients? I suspect some of my gut is like the Pacific Ocean off the NW coast--some dead zones.

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Hmm. How organic is organic?? I am sure they find ways of getting around it sometimes, and then if they are buying stuff in from other producers, how can they guarantee that there aren't any residues or anything in them?

Most non-organic dried fruit is sprayed with mineral oil (probably highly polluted) and sulphites - I am coming around more and more to realise that you can't guarantee anything - unless you grow it yourself!

Over here in the UK it seems that a label on a chicken marked 'British' simply means that it has been packed in Britain, not that it has necessarily come from Britain. Crafty beggars. Not that it makes much difference in the quality.

I know exactly why it is happening, and what is going on and why our food is so poisonous, but there are not many out there who would believe me.............

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I have just tasted some of my first batch of 24hour yogurt. That has to be the best yoghurt I have ever eaten! It is fantastic!

I made it with full cream milk, half a pot of single (light) cream and a dash of double (heavy) and Total thick greek yoghurt as a starter. I did try to get my husband to have a taste but he just has a pathological and totally irrational revulsion - he has never tried it in all the years we have been married (well not to his knowledge anyway - if I use it in cooking I don't tell him and he will eat it, none the wiser!).

I told him it is like eating cream, but he still won't try it. Is that daft? Mind you, my mum used to make yoghurt when I was a kid and I couldn't stand that - it was always so sour. Now they use different cultures that don't create such a tart taste and it makes all the difference.

I definitely will be making that again. I have a little catarrgh after eating it so I suspect there is still a little stray lactose or casein in it, but it's not too bad and I am sure there is enough lactic acid in it to counteract that, and my stomach seems to be ok with it so far. I'm going to go and put some in a dish with some blueberries and honey. Oh yum.

I absolutely definitely will be making buckets of that now - the ironic thing is that I might end up having more dairy in the form of yogurt than I ever did with milk!

Have you tried the So Delicious Yogurt made by Turtle Mountain that is a coconut milk yogurt that is soy, dairy and gluten free? It is a little on the expensive side but very good and convenient in a pinch.

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