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EmilyR83

Mmr Vaccine/celiac Disease/autism

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I was reading this article http://autism.about.com/od/vaccinesandauti...tfulhouse_2.htm

At my sons 12 month doctors appointment, my doc and I decided to put off the MMR for a couple months until we knew what was wrong with him. He is almost 15 months now and we have found out that he has celiacs. The article says that if a child has a weakened immune system, the child would be more susceptible to autism. Here is a little clip from it

MMR and other live-virus vaccines negatively impact certain children with a vulnerable immune system. This immune weakness is likely to be genetic but can also be induced or made worse by environmental toxins. These children fail to clear viruses appropriately, and the viruses may remain in the gut and other body tissues. The immune system responds with a dysregulated production of cytokines, leading to an abnormal degree of inflammation. Initially the inflammation occurs in the gut but ultimately inflammation occurs in the brain. Neurological inflammation affects behavior, presenting as an autism spectrum disorder.

Well, this all makes me nervous about getting this vaccine. So do you guys get the vaccine? What are your thoughts?

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I would recommend going beyond about.com to research this. Medical researchers have shown again and again that there is no link between vaccines and autism. About.com isn't scientific, and there's no good way to evaluate the information you read there. I've found lots and lots and LOTS of misinformation on that website, on everything from history to horses. I'd DEFINITELY read some actual scientific, medical studies about this.

It's also worth noting that if people stop vaccinating their children, these diseases are going to come back. That is going to be extremely bad for society, and especially for women, who are disproportionately going to have to stay home in the quarantines with their children that will be imposed when these diseases start breaking out. This has already begun happening in some places. A child whose parents didn't vaccinate him traveled abroad, picked up the disease, brought it back, and the town had an outbreak. Women (because of the way our society works - women still make only slightly more than 3/4 of what men do, women are expected to be the caretakers, etc.) had to stay home with their children and many lost their jobs. It also wreaked havoc on the school system. Not to mention, of course, that many children got sick and some died because of these awful, awful diseases. Measles, mumps, and rubella are extremely serious, and can certainly kill a child with a weakened immune system. Just because one person's child may not travel somewhere the disease is, doesn't mean no one around her will.

Putting off vaccinating your child because he's been unwell thanks to celiac makes sense, and you and your doctor understand the situation better than anyone on the board could. But please look into actual medical research about this, because, as I said, it has disproven the link between vaccinations and autism time and again, and there are societal implications for ignoring those studies.

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Research the risks from getting those diseases versus the risk from vaccine.

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Research the risks from getting those diseases versus the risk from vaccine.

Also a good suggestion.

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And also, you don't have to give the combo vaccine. That is for convenience and avoiding extra needle sticks for the child. There is a slower, less aggressive schedule you can follow. We did that with our last two and I was much more comfortable about all of it.

If you are serious, you will need to do much more research. Don't allow yourself to be scared by horror stories from either side. Look at the evidence and make your decisions based on that.

FMcGee, I'm interested in reading more about the incident you mention. Can you give the approximate time and place it happened?

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I heard about it on NPR. The story aired about a year ago, I believe, and it took place in central California. I'll try to look up the details on the NPR archives later today, when I've got a little more time. :)

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www.fourteenstudies.org discusses the studies that are held up as supposedly showing no link between vaccines and autism.

Every one of those studies was either conducted by or funded by someone who directly profited by the vaccines in that study, which constitutes a clear conflict of interest.

In addition, there are many significant flaws in every one of those studies, and they are discussed at length.

The only thing that can disprove the link between vaccines and autism would be a study comparing the rate of autism in vaccinated populations vs. unvaccinated population, and that has never been done, despite repeated requests from the parents of those who have documented adverse effects from vaccines.

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I forgot to mention that VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Effect Reporting System) has been involved with compensating a couple of thousand families for vaccine-induced injuries and deaths, including 2 very recent cases that specified the MMR (Hannah Poling and Bailey Banks).Their dx was officially PDD--which is used interchangeably with autism in many legal definitions.

The vaccine companies have blanket liability protection--even if your child dies from a vaccine, they cannot be held liable.

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I would recommend going beyond about.com to research this. Medical researchers have shown again and again that there is no link between vaccines and autism. About.com isn't scientific, and there's no good way to evaluate the information you read there. I've found lots and lots and LOTS of misinformation on that website, on everything from history to horses. I'd DEFINITELY read some actual scientific, medical studies about this.

It's also worth noting that if people stop vaccinating their children, these diseases are going to come back. That is going to be extremely bad for society, and especially for women, who are disproportionately going to have to stay home in the quarantines with their children that will be imposed when these diseases start breaking out. This has already begun happening in some places. A child whose parents didn't vaccinate him traveled abroad, picked up the disease, brought it back, and the town had an outbreak. Women (because of the way our society works - women still make only slightly more than 3/4 of what men do, women are expected to be the caretakers, etc.) had to stay home with their children and many lost their jobs. It also wreaked havoc on the school system. Not to mention, of course, that many children got sick and some died because of these awful, awful diseases. Measles, mumps, and rubella are extremely serious, and can certainly kill a child with a weakened immune system. Just because one person's child may not travel somewhere the disease is, doesn't mean no one around her will.

Putting off vaccinating your child because he's been unwell thanks to celiac makes sense, and you and your doctor understand the situation better than anyone on the board could. But please look into actual medical research about this, because, as I said, it has disproven the link between vaccinations and autism time and again, and there are societal implications for ignoring those studies.

I agree with what you say about women being disproportionately affected by ill children, but vaccines aren't the answer until they are made safer.

There are thousands and thousands of reports to VAERS of serious adverse reactions to vaccines (including death). Try telling the mothers of those children that vaccines are the answer. Having a child permanently disabled by a vaccine injury (and yes, they are documented, they just don't get reported by the media) is worse for your job than a short illness.

Most of the vaccines aren't even for "awful, awful diseases" for which babies would be at high risk, anyway.

Hepatitis B is a good example, requiring 3 doses, the first the day of birth. This is a disease that is spread by tainted needles and sexual contact. Know any babies at risk for that? Those that truly are (the child of a mother who uses drugs or has multiple sexual partners) might be candidates for a vaccine--but there are no studies on such children, nor what their likelihood of being already infected at birth.

Hep B is also very high on VAERS' list of adverse effects, and has been taken off the schedule in France, where it was proved in court that it caused MS. See http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/200...ent-untruthful/

Measles and Mumps used to be considered normal, mild childhood diseases. Yes, there were some who had much more severe cases--just like there are some who have much more severe reactions to vaccines. But the number of adverse effects of vaccines is far greater than the number of deaths from measles and mumps.

Rubella is not a severe disease--it is so mild, most don't even know that they have it. However, it can have a devastating effect on the developing fetus of an exposed pregnant mother.

I'm not saying that we should throw out the idea of vaccines altogether. But we need safer vaccines, and a more reasonable vaccine schedule. The MMR has been linked (yes, in reproduced studies) to developmental delays, so Andrew Wakefield's suggestion of separate M, M, and R components, given six months apart makes sense. The only trouble is, the separate vaccines currently available are preserved with thimerosal.

Both JAMA and the British Medical Journal have gone on record stating that the flu vaccine is ineffective for children and for the elderly. It even says on the flu vaccine package insert "effectiveness not determined in children and elderly"--yet the flu vaccine (90% of which is preserved with thimerosal) is on the yearly schedule for everyone over 6 months, and is given to pregnant women in spite of the fact that thimerosal crosses the placenta AND the blood-brain barrier.

If the tobacco companies funded, directed, and published studies showing that tobacco does not cause cancer, would anyone take them, seriously? Of course not. But that's what is happening with vaccines.

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For some reason, I stopped getting notifications of replies to this threat. Weird. Anyway, here's the This American Life story I referenced before: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Epis...spx?episode=370

Twelve medical studies have shown no link to vaccines and autism. A huge study published in the New England Journal of Medicine says,

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There are two other things I should mention: One, As the vaccination rate goes down, the autism rate continues to rise. And two, measles is a terrible disease that causes fevers high enough to potentially result in brain damage. Brain damage is what people are claiming the vaccines cause. It isn't necessarily just a short-term illness that goes away. It can be deadly, and it can have lifelong repercussions. If measles comes back in a big way, the health of our society is in trouble. The measles outbreak in San Diego is being shrugged off because everyone survived it, but we might not be so lucky next time, and the health department was only able to contain the disease by quarantine. Herd immunity isn't reliable. If you're worried about giving your child all her vaccinations at once, there's nothing wrong with spacing them out. Plenty of pediatricians are happy to do that now.

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Hepatitis B is a good example, requiring 3 doses, the first the day of birth. This is a disease that is spread by tainted needles and sexual contact. Know any babies at risk for that? Those that truly are (the child of a mother who uses drugs or has multiple sexual partners) might be candidates for a vaccine--but there are no studies on such children, nor what their likelihood of being already infected at birth.

Hep B is also very high on VAERS' list of adverse effects, and has been taken off the schedule in France, where it was proved in court that it caused MS. See http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/200...ent-untruthful/

Hep B can be passed by blood and other potentially infectious material not just sexual contact and tainted needles. An infected mother can pass it to her unborn child also. That said, unless there is a high risk for the infant, I do think the dosing schedule could be later when the baby gets a little older. Here is a very good link.

http://www.hepfi.org/living/liv_abc.html?g...CFQyenAod6VUYqw

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I'm on the fence as far as immunisations go. I don't know if they do or dont cause autism. I have two children with autism.

Big regrets for me:-

Not knowing more about the risks of giving a premature baby vaccines.

Not waiting until he was much older to vaccinate.

Not spreading vaccines out

Not asking for single doses.

I am a believer in vaccines, but not on the current schedules. I personally believe we overload young children and it's unecessary. I'd rather pay for my childrens vaccines to be spread out - but thats a personal choice. Thimerosol which used to be the biggest concern in vaccinations was removed from most vaccines a few years ago, but some still carry it (flu vaccines etc).

Depending on where you are in the world, you may be able to ask for single shots, given over time. In Australia we don't have that option. The only vaccine we can get here as a single vaccine is polio.

I had my son (previously immunised at 18 months with MMR) checked for immunity levels at his 4 yr old school shots and those tests showed he still carried immunity and so I chose not to have booster shots.

Do your research, there is a lot of information out there and dont let anyone sway you, or bully you into making a decision. If in doubt, wait a while.

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I'm on the fence as far as immunisations go. I don't know if they do or dont cause autism. I have two children with autism.

....

Thimerosol which used to be the biggest concern in vaccinations was removed from most vaccines a few years ago, but some still carry it (flu vaccines etc).

Depending on where you are in the world, you may be able to ask for single shots, given over time. In Australia we don't have that option. The only vaccine we can get here as a single vaccine is polio.

....

Do your research, there is a lot of information out there and dont let anyone sway you, or bully you into making a decision. If in doubt, wait a while.

Vaccines don't cause autism. That has been proven repeatedly. I linked to studies above that show that, and show that, in fact, thimerosal doesn't have any neurological impact. Very few vaccines use it now, since 2001. Autism is scary, because we don't know what causes it, but studies are pointing towards genetics. I linked to some of those studies above, too, and this website has covered other studies that suggest similar findings, though I didn't link to those.

That said, you can usually spread out vaccines, and most pediatricians will work with you on that. I'd say that if a pediatrician isn't willing to respect your wishes to spread out the vaccines, you might want to try to find a new one. It's important to have a pediatrician you trust and with whom you have a good relationship (and whom your child likes!). There are all kinds of reasons various children might need to have a different vaccine schedule from the standard, and pediatricians understand that. There's nothing wrong with that at all. Schools are beginning to understand that, too, though as is often the case, they may need some nudging.

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Twelve medical studies have shown no link to vaccines and autism. A huge study published in the New England Journal of Medicine says,

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Just going to chime in and say that I do not like it when anyone implies that they should vaccinate their child because "oh if you don't the diseases may come back and oh, you are putting my child at first who is comprised."

I say this as my children do get vaccines and are up to date, but to suggest to someone that their BABY is the sacrificial lamb for the wellbeing of theirs is very cold and upsetting. :angry:

more so if the person isn't even a parent.............

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I'm about as pro vaccine as they come. BUT, I did wait until both my kids were three months old and a little sturdier before I allowed them to get the Hep B or any other vaccine. It just felt right to me. I knew I didn't have Hep B, so that wasn't an issue.

I'm leery of the newer vaccines, but we did all the standard ones with no issues other than a few tears at the doctors, both for my celiac guy and my non celiac girl.

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I did point out in my post that I believe in vaccines, but rather not on current schedulaes and doses. I have not found a signle study as yet that can 100% identify the cause of autism. Personally I believe it sa combination of factors. Vaccinating a child with a compromised immune system IMHO clearly doesnt assist with this.

I also find it insulting when people point out that if you choose not to vaccinate your child you are brining back diseases. We get it. We also get that Thimerosol was taken out of vaccines. Do people honestly believe that was the only ingredient that is of concern to parents of autistic children?

Just as any other parent of a child would do, parents of autistic or special needs children do tend to over analise everything that pertains to our children. Unless you are living life with a child that has special needs, you just don't get it.

FWIW - just as a case in point. My neighbor has 3 children out of 4 with autism. Her 11 yr old severely autistic, non verbal, non toilet trained daughter was a healthy happy verbal child until she had MMR. She has video footage of her the day of her vaccination singing and dancing. The next day she woke up and remained as she is now. What caused it? who knows and I'm not blaming the vaccination - but when you are faced with that, you cant blame parents for being nervous.

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Just a quick word on Thimerosal from a point of view I've never heard anyone mention before. It is possible to be allergic to thimerosal. I know, because I am. I had lots of trouble every time I got a vaccine as a kid. Lots of trouble. It wasn't until just a few years ago that I was tested for an allergy against thimerosal and it came back positive. I've got to make sure doctors know about it when I see them. There are a few products I can't use (some eye drops, some medications, various things in liquid form, etc).

So I've often wondered if one of the reasons that thimerosal seems to be a problem for only some of the people is maybe that they are allergic to it. And maybe an allergy test could be done first, before the vaccine is given?

Again, this is just something in the back of my mind that I've wondered about.

That probably doesn't help much, but I thought I'd mention it in case anyone else has thought of this too.

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I personally don't feel vaccines made my son Autistic... but rather, perhaps, contributed to a problem he already had a birth. Exacerbated it, perhaps. He had obvious signs of severe food allergies at birth, jaundice, and probably more. The child never slept, even as an infant. He had horrible reactions to every single set of shots he got. And each and every time his food allergies would get worse. Yeast issues, etc.

Now, with my 2nd son, we waited til he was 2 (except the vit. K shot at birth). We're very slowly vaccinating him. So far, not a single sign of Autism. And he's much healthier than his brother was. No ear infections, very little tummy issues (after we figured out his food allergies they went away). He's already outgrown all his food allergies.

I personally don't think that the current vaccination schedule is good for young infants. We need to wait for their immune systems to mature. And we shouldn't be giving babies (infants, with rapidly developing brains) soooo many shots at a time. I truly don't understand how it cannot have an effect when they give 8 - 10 vaccines at a time (b/c of combo shots).

I'm OK with vaccinating (though the ingredients still give me the heebie jeebies), because I don't want these diseases to come back. But, some of them - like chicken pox - aren't truly deadly, and I'll probably stay away from them.

Oh, and we held off on the MMR til my son was 15 months... it was after that that his development came to a crashing halt, BTW. Developmentally, he was fine - he hit every single milestone on time, most of them early. He started talking, and then just stopped. One word, that's all he had for a full year after that. He's still in speech therapy and is making amazing progress (especially since starting the diet). That's just my personal experience with it though. He got more than just that one shot that day. I want to say he got 4 sticks that day, and each one was a combo shot...

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I would recommend going beyond about.com to research this. Medical researchers have shown again and again that there is no link between vaccines and autism. About.com isn't scientific, and there's no good way to evaluate the information you read there. I've found lots and lots and LOTS of misinformation on that website, on everything from history to horses. I'd DEFINITELY read some actual scientific, medical studies about this.

This. Exactly.

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I was reading this article http://autism.about.com/od/vaccinesandauti...tfulhouse_2.htm

At my sons 12 month doctors appointment, my doc and I decided to put off the MMR for a couple months until we knew what was wrong with him. He is almost 15 months now and we have found out that he has celiacs. The article says that if a child has a weakened immune system, the child would be more susceptible to autism. Here is a little clip from it

MMR and other live-virus vaccines negatively impact certain children with a vulnerable immune system. This immune weakness is likely to be genetic but can also be induced or made worse by environmental toxins. These children fail to clear viruses appropriately, and the viruses may remain in the gut and other body tissues. The immune system responds with a dysregulated production of cytokines, leading to an abnormal degree of inflammation. Initially the inflammation occurs in the gut but ultimately inflammation occurs in the brain. Neurological inflammation affects behavior, presenting as an autism spectrum disorder.

Well, this all makes me nervous about getting this vaccine. So do you guys get the vaccine? What are your thoughts?

Just to give you a little support. My daughter is 2 and I have not gotten her the MMR vaccine and probably won't for sometime. I saw first hand my best friends son change right before our eyes after his MMR vaccine. They say studies don't show a correlation between vaccines and autism. Either they know something and they don't want it to get out because of the liability or there just isn't enough info yet. Every couple years the autism rates go up.....maybe it is a combination of many things...but I have to say one thing that is different from when I was a child is the large amount of vaccines that they recieve by the age of 2. I think it is something like 25 vaccines. Thats a lot! My primary fully supports my desicion to wait on some vaccines and even told me not to do more than 2 at a time. She said vaccines work by invoking a inflammatory response and to much inflammation has show to have bad effects especially on the brain. The nurse tried to ask me why I didn't want it and she said "Is it because of autism?" I told her.. it was do to many reasons and it wasn't open for discussion. She shut up after that. Don't get bullied and trust your gut. Even if you get the vaccine it doesn't mean your immune. I had the MMR shot after my daughter was born in the hospital and My body has not been the same since...granted pregnancy is known to do that to some people but sometimes I wonder if the MMR shot did anything. I now have multiple food allergies, gluten intolerance, unexplained joint and muscle pain. I will never know. Now I'm pregnant again and they told me I tested eqiuvical and I need the MMR shot again! No thanks! But I will spread my daughters vaccines out as far as I can. Good luck!

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Not going to enter the debate directly, but two good reads about the issues:

The Autoimmune Epidemic by Donna Nakazawa (it also has a website by the same name, but the book is better)

Boys Adrift by Dr. Leonard Sax

In a nutshell, these books discuss (in normal people terms) the many contributing issues: your carpet, your drycleaning, your vaccines, your plastics, your genetics. There is no agenda-bias that I could tell, just a lot of facts and research-sifting. These are mainstream books by reputable, qualified people.

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