I think I have discovered why some of us get a gassy reaction to the yogurt.
Apparently lactobacillus bacteria produce hydrogen peroxide when they come in contact with pathogenic bacteria and beasties in their work of overcoming them. Once they have dealt with them the gas should abate.
There are quite a few studies and references on this - most seem to refer to the lack of these friendly bacteria in connection with bacterial vaginosis (so the old-wives-tale of using a yogurt douche wasn't so stupid after all!), but it obviously works well in the digestive tract to counteract pathogens.
Another good reason why it is such an intrinsic part of the SCD. Other lactobacillus products like fermented cabbage etc. probably work just as well if yogurt can't be tolerated, but perhaps the intoleration reaction is not the yogurt itself but the effect it is having on the unwanted beasties.
Weird isn't it. Our youngest grandson Ashley who is six, who has always been really finicky with food - it has been a nightmare trying to get him to eat fruit and veg, has suddenly developed a liking for brussels sprouts!!!
I mean, he won't eat the things that most kids love, like sweetcorn or peas, yet he likes brussels sprouts???
It was a joy to see him scoffing down the 'little footballs' and asking for more!
Mind you, they were pretty sweet and delicious. I find that BS are a bit unreliable - sometimes they are lovely, and sometimes they are really bitter. It must depend what soil they are grown in.
I have bought some more today, and I am going to try the roasting method. Sounds delish.
Hi Richard. Anyone who has followed my previous posts over the last two years will realise that I am referring to the generally obnoxious highly processed, high sugar rubbish that passes for food on our supermarket shelves.
It is also a 'greater or lesser degree' thing too. Some may 'get away with' more than others.
We have such a high and rapidly growing element of Diabetes, obesity and other carb-metabolism related health issues, issues that many cultures still largely untouched by our Western diet don't suffer with to any great degree - or even at all.
Robert Lustig, the eminent pediatrician couldn't understand why he was getting so many obese 6 month-old babies in his clinic. When he investigated he realised that much of the baby formulas contain high-fructose corn syrup. It also features very highly in soft drinks and squashes. He worked out that a child consuming an average container of coke or similar drink a day was likely to gain at least 50lbs of weight in a year.
High-fructose corn syrup is also a carbohydrate. It is used in much of the processed stuff.
There are many good carbohydrates - fruit, vegetables, some grains, a little honey, and, if one can tolerate it even some good whole grain bread. The problem comes from the sheer quantity of the processed stuff that people put away each day - the cereals, the bread, the pies, pasties, rolls, bagels, cakes, cookies, crackers, fries, crisps, pizza, pasta, desserts, sweets, sugar in its many guises, beer, etc., etc. Many people are stuffing carbs from the minute they get up to the minute they go to bed!
It may seem a controversial statement, but yes, I do believe that we are all affected adversely in some way - to a greater or lesser degree, either sooner or later, by our 'normal' Western diet.
Diabetes is a carb and sugar-metabolism related issue, as is in many cases weight gain and obesity, as I mentioned, but even some cancers can be fuelled by sugar. Yeast and fungal issues are fuelled by sugar and carbs. Now I have limited my carb intake the Candida is history. Many who aren't diagnosed as diabetic still suffer, like I did for years before becoming diabetic, with blood sugar related hypos, mood swings, anxiety and other issues - even depression.
Sugar, and anything that turns to sugar in the body needs a lot of water for digestion and processing. So carbohydrates, albeit inadvertently, if consumed in quantity could potentially contribute to dehydration and the issues that causes within the body.
Yes, some cultures not touched by our diet do consume a fair amount of carbohydrate (some also exist quite healthily on a carbohydrate-free diet, too), but it is not processed and it is unlikely to contain sugar in any quantity apart from perhaps the natural sugars found in fruit and honey. It is also only in recent times that some cultures have started to eat much in the way of sweet food, and that only because of our Western influence. But where the Western diet goes, you can pretty much guarantee that our Western diseases will be hard on its heels.
Whilst I rarely eat anything sweet apart from an occasional treat made with ground almonds or coconut that I bake myself, my husband does have some bought gluten-free cookies. It makes me angry when I see the amount of carbohydrate in them compared to that in wheat-based cookies and biscuits, well, especially the ones made and sold here in the UK (I can't comment on what is sold elsewhere).
He also is borderline diabetic but has no control over the amount of carbs in these things, and especially the sugar, only over how much of them he eats. I make as much as I can myself with as little sugar as possible, or preferably honey because I then have control over how much carbohydrate is in it.
My daughter and my grandsons are not diabetic, neither do they appear to have any obvious issues with gluten as such but I see how they are affected by carbohydrates. They all have blood-sugar issues. If our eldest grandson (8) has a carb snack before bed, he wakes up like the Tasmanian Devil in the morning! Without the carb he is absolutely fine. Our daughter suffers with mood swings and fatigue when she has had too much carbohydrate. Our youngest grandson (6) is showing signs of systemic fungal infestation and I know from personal experience that that is driven by carbohydrates.
I see many other friends and family who very obviously have issues with carbohydrates. I see diabetic friends with uncontrollable diabetes and horrendous complications due to carbohydrates. They have followed the 'accepted' Medical advice to eat plenty of carbs (although that is beginning to change now - even the AMA has advised reduction in carb intake for diabetics) and have paid the price.
The whole ethos of the SCD is relatively low-carb, and any carbs that are consumed come from natural unprocessed sources which is why it has helped so many people to recover. So many on this forum have issues not just with gluten-based carbs but with other carbohydrate foods too, particularly processed ones, and only by dumping them have they been able to gradually claw back their health.
Hi Jan, you may be right about the straying bit to a certain extent but because I am on such a low carbohydrate diet, having the occasional square of very bitter chocolate or an odd rice cake or two is, I am sure not going to be a huge issue - I have been able to get the Candida under control perfectly well, but this is something else.
Bacteria and yeasts feed on the food we eat, other things feed on us. As long as we feed, they feed! Sometimes we have things to deal with that the diet alone is not enough.
Despite this, in general I am a lot better than I was two years ago, and that wouldn't have happened were it not for the diet.
If Candida is an issue, I think you will find that the diet will deal with it eventually. It does take time, but at least it is working in the right direction.
Whilst I feel that there is something a bit more problematic living in me that will take some pretty strong stuff to eradicate, I do seem to have pretty well, through the diet gradually been able to get Candida under control.
I certainly am not the walking fungus-factory that I used to be - slathering the Canesten on every five minutes. All my external symptoms of Candida et al have either gone or have virtually gone which is great, and that gives me confidence that the internal ones are well on their way too.
This other issue is pretty much the only thing standing between me and better health. I am throwing herbs and garlic and stuff at it which does seem to be doing something so hopefully I will get the better of it (them) eventually.
Certainly I am in a far better place as a result of the diet than I was 20 months ago. Being hardly able to eat anything, let alone gluten, was not a good place to be. Now I can eat pretty much anything 'legal' and occasionally an illegal treat.
I won't ever go back to eating the carbs in any quantity - not now I have realised what damage they are doing to everyone.
I have had issues with carbs and a poor digestive system for many years along with weight gain, hypos, IBS, Candida, etc., and most of that time and especially since being diagnosed diabetic 12 years ago I spent most of that time feeling sorry for myself - why me? Why can other people eat all this yummy stuff and I can't? You know the stuff.
Having my digestion finally collapse has actually been the best thing that could have happened. All the research and knowledge I have gained since has made me realise just how damaging the Western diet is, and that so many people are suffering with so many illnesses and diseases as a result of following it.
Now I no longer feel sorry for myself, I feel sorry for everyone else who is still 'enslaved' to it! It is jolly liberating, I can tell you!
Sorry Lyn, as I suspected might happen, the thread I started on water and salt has been moved to the gab/chat room and has been pulled to pieces.
Anyone would think that I had suggested drinking bleach and taking arsenic! The fact that a very small percentage of people have not done things sensibly and have been very ill or died as a result seems to be totally overshadowing the fact that half the population is getting sick due to dehydration! So it's obviously better not to drink enough than to drink too much??? Wouldn't drinking about the right amount be a much more sensible thing to do all around?
I'm not surprised at the reaction - knowing the problems I had getting the SCD thread off the ground..........
Sometimes it's all just too much effort.
Anyway, if you want to look at my answer to your question, that is where the thread is.
How are you getting on with the SCD? Is it helping?
I suppose that the water and salt thing is a bit off-topic, but then it is still 'food' as such - I don't think that either are SCD illegal!
I will start a thread if you like - those that run this website already know that I am a bit 'off the wall' so they probably won't be that surprised!
Mind you, dehydration does seem to be a big problem for Celiacs and gluten intolerants.
I think we just don't realise how dehydrated we are. When I think back to my health issues over the years I can see that a lot of it has been related to dehydration.
No I'm not nearly as bad as you are. Thank goodness you and your Doctors have figured out the problem and are able to address it.
Hi Patti. I wonder if you are intolerant to the coconut because the bugs react to the medium-chain fatty acids in it - the caprylic, capric, lauric and myristic acids? Coconut is quite a powerful anti-fungal, bacterial and viral and could easily stir up a hornets' nest down there initially.
I have found that sometimes with different things I have taken - the first few times I took the oregano oil I was reacting but gradually it has tailed off and I am ok with it now. The reaction actually made me feel that the oil was doing some good!
Whilst some reactions - like the one to gluten can be detrimental, I am sure that others are the result of a good process - makes you realise it is doing something! The problem comes from trying to decipher which is which!
This is quite a good idea Bea, it hits the middle ground between the SCD and the 'norm' without being too pedantic - but then personally I was never pedantic about the SCD - I used to quietly side-step that debate. But then how could I be too pedantic when I was still nibbling on the odd square of bitter choc, or occasional rice cake, etc.?
What all these things do, whether SCD or otherwise, is put the focus back on to REAL food. We are all different - although our bodies work pretty much the same, we are all at different stages of our health issues - our bacterial overgrowth, or dehydration, or whatever our individual problems are so may need to tweak things to our personal needs.
We all seem to agree though that high, and particularly processed foods, and sugars need to be removed from the equation. Some can cope with a bit of starch, others not. Some can cope with a bit of fruit, some not. But as long as we stick to REAL fresh food we can't go too far wrong.
I do wish though that I had realised the benefit of drinking water. I might well have saved myself the issues I had with die-off if I had been drinking water a lot earlier in the process - it helps the body get the toxins out, so would have been a great help. Still, better late than never.
PS. One little thing about the coconut milk. Some of them are hydrogenated. If you are not sure you can contact the manufacturer. Over here in the UK where it is colder, if the milk is already all blended and creamy when the tin is opened then it is likely to be hydrogenated (Pride brand is one I have checked if you get that in the States - the consistency made me suspicious), if it is separated then it is not hydrogenated (I use the Natco brand which is just pure coconut milk - no additives or anything, but that may only be available over here). You could always try putting the tin in the fridge to cool and see what happens if you are not sure. When the unhydrogenated stuff is in a warm climate it will normally blend with a shake of the tin.
I went for an ultrasound today but as expected there was nothing out of the ordinary. Everything was where it should be and apparently as it should be. I didn't think it would achieve anything. They can't see through the ribs, and the problem I have is further up in my back and on my right side under the ribs.
Quite where I go from here I haven't a clue. Having waited 6 months for a non-materialising appointment that should only have taken 4-5 weeks due to the gross incompetence of my Doctor (!), I am back to square one.
I still think that this may well be SIBO, but it now seems that the tests for that aren't particularly good, mind you I suspect that it may be like the Celiac test where they have to set it at greater than 10 because some of the 'healthy' control group were found to have gluten antibodies (but then they might have 'silent Celiac!). Because they found evidence of SIBO in some healthy controls just may mean that many have it but are not (yet) displaying any symptoms!
I can't quite figure out why they even need to bother with the breath test - all they need to do is swab people's tongues first thing in the morning (well, they'd get a jolly good sample from mine!) and they will be able to figure out exactly what they are dealing with!
The water and salt is definitely what my body now needs, but that in itself is not enough to eject the little beggars.
I really don't want to go down the antibiotic route due to the almost certain probability of resistance so am just going to have to bombard them with whatever else I can get my hands on. I have just ordered some olive leaves and will get some grapefruit seed extract. I had some Citricidal at one point but I don't have a clue where that went to so will have to get some more.
I had a big mug of oregano and lapacho (pau d'arco) tea a while ago. Ugh. I took two oregano oil capsules at dinner and I have just had three garlic oil capsules (I just can't bring myself to eat it raw - last time my throat was on fire! Once you have it, it seems a very tough customer to eradicate.
I suspect that SIBO is probably behind the issues that many of us have with different sugars and carbs and other foods - whether it forms as a result of dehydration or whether it even contributes to it is something probably as yet unknown. It is undoubtedly still driven one way or another by the Western diet.
The thing is that it may not actually be our dehydration that is to blame for the Celiac. Dr. B was convinced from his research and study that Type 1 Diabetes - the type that develops in childhood, was very likely triggered by dehydration in the Mother - that her dehydration had impacted on certain processes in the baby during its development. To quote -
Whereas the onset of dehydration-induced diabetes is normally seen in the elderly and is often reversible (with the implementation of a low-carbohydrate diet and rehydration) , the more serious and structurally damaging variety of the disease is often inherited by their offspring. Juvenile diabetes will need the same approach to its early preventative treatment before permanent structural damage can take place. It should be remembered that the genetic transcription mechanism of parents - in particular the Mother - if affected by amino pool imbalance, will be equally represented in the offspring. In effect, this is how genetic damage and inherited disorders establish.
My Mum was a type 1 Diabetic. To their knowledge there was no history of Diabetes in my Mum's family. Where did hers come from? My Nan died in her early 60's from cancer. What if dehydration had prevented her body from being able to expel the toxins from her body by that late stage, but early dehydration had impacted on my Mum as she was growing in the womb. My Nan was an avid (diuretic) tea-drinker and may well have gone on to develop T2 diabetes if she had lived long enough. What if those who have had issues with gluten from a young age have been affected in the same way - after all it is not unusual for gluten intolerance to run in families.
I know this may seem somewhat speculative, but it should never be dismissed out of hand. It certainly sounds perfectly feasible and logical to me.
Mum had other health issues through her life that could well have been triggered by dehydration, not least, towards the end of her life, obvious symptoms of gluten intolerance/Celiac Disease (and there do seem to be strong links between T1 Diabetes and Celiac). I am type 2 Diabetic so I also have an impaired ability to process carbohydrate and have done for years since long before I became Diabetic, to the point that although classified as Type 2 I have to take insulin. On top of that I also, albeit seemingly only in recent times, have developed a quite severe intolerance to gluten - perhaps prevented from getting to the Celiac stage by my swift intervention.
If caught early enough, it does seem that it is possible to halt the degeneration of Diabetes - Victoria Boutenko put her whole family on a raw food diet when her son Sergei was diagnosed with type 1 at the age of 10. In doing so, she prevented him ever having to go on to Insulin. He is now 20, insulin free and has normal blood sugar.
Perhaps dietary intervention at an early stage could also prevent Celiac from progressing?
Elaine was convinced that an imbalance in the gut flora was a major contributor and I am sure she was right, but then if people are eating, and drinking, a lot of sugar and foods that turn to sugar in the body, not only are they going to encourage the growth of pathogenic bacteria, but they are also going to encourage dehydration.
It seems that both she and Drs. Haas found that they were able to reverse the damage that was apparent in those with a so-called gluten intolerance - they felt that the damage that triggered the gluten issues was actually triggered itself by sugars and sugar in-digestion and the resulting bacterial overgrowth.
I do feel that the 'genetic' thing often throws up more questions than it answers and may even be a bit of a red-herring, after all, not all those with diagnosed Celiac seem to carry the obvious genes - no one seems to really know which are the right ones although they have linked the DQs 2,8,3 and 1 etc. Some have bits of some and not of others, some have the genes but not the disease. There really seems to be no clear-cut application in that avenue - but then the genetic thing is not very clear-cut in most diseases. How often do we hear the phrase 'scientists think they have discovered the gene for.........'
But then, you know me by now, I always have felt that most, if not all of our 'Western' diseases are just different symptoms and aspects of the same problem - the 'Western' diet.
Here's an interesting personal experience of Celiac and the water and salt connection.
I now feel that like type 2 Diabetes, it may well be possible to reverse Celiac Disease. This may seem controversial, but even Elaine felt that it was possible and may well have even encountered people who had recovered from it by following the diet.
I was thinking about this. The thing that made me pick up on Celiac in myself was the floaty stools and the running diarrhea. They are typical symptoms. But diarrhea is in itself dehydrating.
As I mentioned in another thread, I now believe that diarrhea is an extension of constipation. That they are both a result of dehydration - the diarrhea is a more virulent manifestation at the point where the dehydration is so bad that the gut can no longer support the digestion of certain foods and just ends up using what water is available to get the indigestible food through and out of the body as quickly as possible.
The fact that people 'develop' Celiac at different stages may simply depend on at what stage the dehydration has degenerated the gut to the point that it can no longer digest gluten and gluten-containing foods. The fact that there is a much higher amount of gluten in the wheat etc. these days may well also be a factor.
Perhaps the gluten is yet another aspect of the food that needs a lot of water to complete the digestive process.
I feel that if one looks at it from that aspect it is no surprise that people with Celiac Disease and gluten intolerance then go on to develop further intolerances to other foods. Which foods will purely depend on how much water their individual body needs for digestion of that particular food.
I thought that it was interesting in Anne Marie's report that her body wasn't absorbing the water until she started taking the salt. It comes back to needing to take the two in conjunction.
Also it has to be imperative that we follow a very low-carbohydrate diet whilst rehydrating because if we are still eating a lot - or even a moderate quantity of grains and other dehydrating foods, we wouldn't really be getting the benefit of the water. Instead of rehydrating the body it would be drawn off for digestive needs.
I have put 'celiac' and 'dehydration' into Google and quite a lot of stuff has come up.
I thought it was interesting that CarlaB said that when she drinks water she can never get enough of it. I found that - if I drank water I was always still thirsty! Of course! My body was crying for it! It needed water! I didn't drink it because it made me feel thirsty! Doh!
This is no coincidence. There are all those Celiacs on there saying how dehydrated they always are........they may dump gluten but they are still eating lots of dehydrating carbs.
If I was a betting person I would bet my life on it. Dehydration is not a symptom of Celiac - it's the cause..........
I absolutely agree (and thanks for the vote of confidence ). The SCD was originally given to Elaine Gottschall to help her little girl with ulcerative colitis, but on the way it has been found to help all sorts of other health issues too.
I will be the first to admit that I wouldn't be nearly as well as I am if it hadn't been for the SCD.
When I too could hardly digest or cope with anything - even the chicken soup was an issue for me back then, but very gradually things improved until I got to the point that there are few 'legal' foods that I can't cope with and I even cheat with one or two non-SCD ones occasionally.
Despite that, I just couldn't understand why I was reacting to foods that I previously had had no problems with (apart from carbs which had been an issue for years). I couldn't understand why people would have issues with gluten, then soy, then corn, then..........
What was triggering it all?
I have been doing hours and hours and hours of research, analysis, cogitation, investigation, etc., etc., to try and make sense of it all.
Whilst the SCD did make a big difference, it didn't answer all the questions for me. My quest always has been to try and get better, and if I can find information that helps others on the way then that makes it even more worthwhile.
Some have been able to fall right in to the SCD and work well with it. Others have more difficulty. Like Jan, they have improved but only on a very limited diet.
The difference must come from the degree of damage in the gut and how well, or badly it copes with different foods. Why?
The dehydration issue has been a lightbulb moment. It makes so much sense. The SCD helps because it removes most, if not all of the foods that need a lot of water for digestion - the grains, starches, sugars and dairy. Not only that, but what is left are mainly water-providing foods like vegetables and some fruit.
The diet starts with chicken soup, cooked carrots and applesauce, all of which are 'wet' foods. I had issues digesting meat, eggs and nuts initially, all of which need more water than the veg but gradually that improved - nuts and meat took the longest. After a few months I found that I could cope with raw smoothies - but now realise that that was because I added a fair bit of water to them.
Even long before my digestion collapsed I always did need my food 'wet'. I would always need gravy, or custard, or cream or some kind of sauce. I often enjoyed soups more than anything else. Yet I was never an avid drinker. Daft Eh? This goes way back - right to my childhood.
I now believe that this is a two-pronged thing. The damage is caused by both the high-carb, high-sugar 'Western' diet foods, but also because the drinks that are prevalent within the diet are also very dehydrating. Both the food and the drink is drawing more water out of the body than is it putting in. Where it shows up purely depends on our personal genetic weaknesses and vulnerabilities or where the damage is most concentrated in the gut.
I really feel that had I realised this earlier in the process, the combination of the SCD AND THE WATER would have speeded up my recovery much quicker.
It has only been two weeks since I started the water 'cure', but the results so far are positive. My plan is, in two or three months time, to do a gluten challenge to see what, if anything, happens. I believe I was exposed to gluten this week, but I did not react.
Even if I did find that I was no longer intolerant, I would never go back to eating the carbs and sugars in any quantity. It has been damaging me for the last 50 years and I have no intention of going there again.
The fatigue, the weight issues, the hypos, the stomach problems, the IBS, the Diabetes, the hair loss, the gluten intolerance - they are either gone or are well on their way.......and I really am not a bit sorry to see the back of them!
Your body is trying to reject something it can't digest. The Imodium might even be making things worse.
Are you already on an elimination diet? The first things to remove would be grains, starches, sugar and dairy and start from there. I know you mentioned about removing dairy in your other thread but why not just cut straight to the chase and start from scratch? It would be a lot easier to establish what it is that is triggering your issues.
I was like that until I dumped gluten and started the SCD. Dumping gluten and dairy stopped the diarrhea and the awful stomach pains, but didn't address the other intolerances I had, especially to carbs in general.
Following the SCD has helped a lot, but it wasn't until I realised that the real issue was the acute underlying dehydration and have started to address that, that everything is finally coming together.
Along with drinking the water and taking a little unrefined sea/rock salt, I am also Alkalizing my body by eating plenty of fresh vegetables, drinking lemon water and taking a little (quarter teaspoon in some water) sodium bicarb every day, and that does seem to be helping considerably.
I never did use anything like Imodium - I hate drugs of any kind as my body is already toxic and the last thing I want to do is add to the burden, but I too was often on the toilet 10 or more times a day before my digestion finally collapsed.
In a way, I am glad it did, otherwise I would never have discovered the gluten connection or started following the Specific Carb Diet or have discovered the real reason why I was having so many problems.
I have now realised that the dehydration has been with me for a long time - gradually getting worse as the years have gone by until my body couldn't cope any longer. It's obvious really. As most of the food I was eating (the carbs and sugar) and the drinks I was drinking (the tea, coffee, squashes, fruit juices, soft drinks and alcohol) were also very dehydrating, I was just never topping up my water 'bank' but was getting deeper and deeper into debt.
Although the diarrhea stopped after removing gluten and dairy (my body was probably using what little water was available to it to get what it couldn't digest straight through and out of my body as quickly as possible) I then went on to develop constipation - another indicator that I was still dehydrated, although I didn't realise it until now.
Now I am drinking plenty of water, everything is moving much better - the only problem I have now is clearing the backlog of accumulated 'crud'!