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cristiana

Gastritis or Glutening - Slippery Elm

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Hello experts!

I wondered if anyone has had recourse to use slippery elm for either gastritis or glutening.  I am not sure which I have but the pain is just below my sternum, a sort of burning gnawing pain that started a week ago and has waxed and waned to some degree depending on the food I have consumed (spicy/fatty food/dairy being the worst).  I was supposed to be seeing my gastroenterologist and was going to mention it to him but the appointment was wrong (hospital mistake).  If it doesn't improve in the next few days I'll have to see my GP.  

The sensation is pretty familiar - I felt like this before my diagnosis and going gluten free and have had similar episodes since (mostly due to imbibing NSAIDs and Iron - which I am afraid to say I took just before the attack) but this is probably the worst the pain has been since adopting the gluten free diet.  So my two questions are: 

a) has anyone found slippery elm useful for gastritis or glutening (I would take otc opremazole but last time I did I had terrible diarrhea).

and b ) can anyone tell if there is any easy way of discerning the difference between gastritis (which I think affects the stomach, doesn't it?) and glutening.

(I ask this as it could also just be glutening, too, thinking back on some possible cc over the last few weeks)

Thanks!

 

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I don't know about slippery elm. If spicy foods are bothering your stomach, then I'd avoid them completely until the problem is gone.

 

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I had this pain well before I went off gluten, and well before I had much worse symptoms. Seemed to resolve itself with gluten-free diet. I always suspected an ulcer but since my insurance and money situation was so bad never asked a doctor about it. Perhaps a glutening? But I'd baby myself with soothing foods and nothing strong until it goes away or you see the doc. Keep us updated!

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Thanks so much for replying, both of you.  I am beginning to get concerned as the pain was worse last night (all I ate was chicken and carrots for supper) and this morning my stool is yellow, although not runny.  I have googled and it doesn't look good - my hope is it is glutening and this is a celiac response.  I'd better go to the doctors tomorrow if things don't get better :(.  Feeling really sad as I only had a health crisis last month (benign lump removed from tongue) and was so looking forward to a spell of health over the summer. 

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Hi Cristiana,

I'm so sorry that you are not feeling well.  (((Hugs)))

I definitely had that before diagnosis and for some time after, which makes me wonder if you've been glutened.  Do you keep a food diary?  If so, have you checked the day or 2 before this started to see if anything stands out as the culprit?

It could also be a virus.

It's a good idea to go see your Dr if it persists though.

In the meantime, do eat things that are gentle on your system.  For me, I will put chicken breasts in the crockpot with broth and cook all day.  I will eat that with boiled potatoes and butter.  Bananas are another food that works well for me.  Sipping on ginger tea is soothing as well.

I do hope that you are feeling better...please let us know!

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Thanks so much for your reply, Icelandgirl. I shall buy some chicken and do exactly as you suggest - I think maybe where I went wrong a couple of days ago is the chicken was roast and pretty tough.  This sounds easier on the stomach.  

I think maybe I have been glutened and maybe a bug - apparently there is one going round.  The pain is so similar to before my diagnosis.  The only difference now is heartburn which I don't recall having before, but that might be due to the meds I've been taking.  I won't let it drag on - will see the doctor soon.  Yesterday was a much better day but I had vague tummy ache and heartburn at bedtime which was disappointing.

 

xxx

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Hi cristiana,

One of the things they recommend people with heartburn do is to sleep in a more upright position.  Similar to sitting in bed.  Maybe try that and see if it helps.

 I had a stomach ulcer in the upper left part of the stomach for a while.  Whenever I laid on my left side the acid in my stomach would wash over that area and cause increased pain.  Might be something to try, laying in different positions.  That could narrow down the location of an ulcer to a specific area.

If it is pain from a glutening that could last a while but should dissipate in a few weeks.  Hopefully!

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2 hours ago, GFinDC said:

Hi cristiana,

One of the things they recommend people with heartburn do is to sleep in a more upright position.  Similar to sitting in bed.  Maybe try that and see if it helps.

 I had a stomach ulcer in the upper left part of the stomach for a while.  Whenever I laid on my left side the acid in my stomach would wash over that area and cause increased pain.  Might be something to try, laying in different positions.  That could narrow down the location of an ulcer to a specific area.

If it is pain from a glutening that could last a while but should dissipate in a few weeks.  Hopefully!

This is very useful info, thank you!  Because regarding heartburn thinking about it  I've had it in the past after eating too much rich food - and then it went - but this is in a whole new league.  To the point that this morning my throat felt sore.

I'll eat early this evening - the bland chicken that Icelandgirl suggested - so hopefully food will repeat less on me at night.   I've also now got a PPI which will help till I see my doctor.

I hope to see my doctor on Wednesday but am dreading going down another take opremazole for a month and if you still have symptoms we'll do an endoscopy route.  

Do you mind my asking, how did you find out about the ulcer? Was it during your celiac scope or did it arise before or after that?  I have mild pain under my ribs - it is quite diffuse, just as it was before I was diagnosed - is that how it feels?  Although it started with severe cramps which have since subsided.  Sorry - quite a lot of questions!

 

 

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On 7/10/2017 at 11:23 AM, cristiana said:

This is very useful info, thank you!  Because regarding heartburn thinking about it  I've had it in the past after eating too much rich food - and then it went - but this is in a whole new league.  To the point that this morning my throat felt sore.

I'll eat early this evening - the bland chicken that Icelandgirl suggested - so hopefully food will repeat less on me at night.   I've also now got a PPI which will help till I see my doctor.

I hope to see my doctor on Wednesday but am dreading going down another take opremazole for a month and if you still have symptoms we'll do an endoscopy route.  

Do you mind my asking, how did you find out about the ulcer? Was it during your celiac scope or did it arise before or after that?  I have mild pain under my ribs - it is quite diffuse, just as it was before I was diagnosed - is that how it feels?  Although it started with severe cramps which have since subsided.  Sorry - quite a lot of questions!

 

 

Hi cristiana,

My ulcer was sometime after going gluten-free.  It was more a constant pain in a definite area, not spread out or diffuse.  I wouldn't call it mild pain myself, but it wasn't so bad I couldn't function with aspirin and wine to get to sleep.  Aspirin fairly often though and that in itself is not good for your stomach.  Your throat feeling sore sounds more like a GERD type reflux issue to me.  I'm not an expert or something, but that seems more likely IMHO.  You have to be careful of PPI's as people get dependent on them to control symptoms.  They aren't really a good thing to take long term from what I've read.

Edited by GFinDC
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Thanks so much for that - yes, I'm rather concerned about taking them long term.  I hope I won't need to.  

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Four days into taking 20mg opremazole every day.  I have to say, it's funny stuff.  It does take away that awful gnawing feeling and heartburn but instead I've had burping, bloating in my upper abdomen which makes my shoulders and back ache, stomach pain as well as diarrhea - all of which appear to be the usual sort of symptoms you can get when you take it.  

My doctor says take it for a month and then that should be the trick. I'm reading a lot about acid rebound so I hope that doesn't happen to me.  I'm going to try to taper off the dosage at the end of the month rather than go 'cold turkey'.  If anyone is still reading this thread and has done this successfully I'd love some tips. 

The first day the opremazole didn't quite do the trick and I supplemented with some slippery elm made up in water.  It tasted like grass clipping tea but it works all right.

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Hi Cristiana,

I'm so sorry that you are still having issues!  

I have been on a PPI once.  I was diagnosed with h. Pylori at the same time as celiac, so my gut was a complete wreck!  I was put on 2 antibiotics, a PPI and Pepto.  I had read about acid rebound and decided to taper when it was time to come off.  I went from taking it daily to 1 every other day for a few days.  After that it was 1 every 3 days and after that I stopped.  I never did get the acid rebound, thankfully.

I really do hope you start feeling better!! ((((Hugs))))

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17 hours ago, cristiana said:

Four days into taking 20mg opremazole every day.  I have to say, it's funny stuff.  It does take away that awful gnawing feeling and heartburn but instead I've had burping, bloating in my upper abdomen which makes my shoulders and back ache, stomach pain as well as diarrhea - all of which appear to be the usual sort of symptoms you can get when you take it.  

My doctor says take it for a month and then that should be the trick. I'm reading a lot about acid rebound so I hope that doesn't happen to me.  I'm going to try to taper off the dosage at the end of the month rather than go 'cold turkey'.  If anyone is still reading this thread and has done this successfully I'd love some tips. 

The first day the opremazole didn't quite do the trick and I supplemented with some slippery elm made up in water.  It tasted like grass clipping tea but it works all right.

Hi.  Hope you're feeling better.  

When I had Gerd, I found it helpful to lay on my left side after eating.  Laying on the left side straightens out the esophagus and the stomach, allowing for burps to escape more easily.  

Eating smaller, more frequent, bland meals helps, too.  Icelandgirl's crock pot chicken suggestion is a good one.  Throw in a carrot and some dill for healing chicken soup.

I hope you won't have to depend on the PPI very long.  They just made me feel worse in the long run.  Here's an article that discusses how use of some medications might cause further damage.  

https://www.celiac.com/articles/24743/1/What-Causes-Villus-Atrophy-in-Symptomatic-Celiac-Patients-on-a-Gluten-free-Diet/Page1.html

And one more of helpful information.

http://b12patch.com/blog/8-ailments-linked-with-gastritis-including-b12-deficiency/

Hope this helps.

Edited by knitty kitty
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23 hours ago, icelandgirl said:

Hi Cristiana,

I'm so sorry that you are still having issues!  

I have been on a PPI once.  I was diagnosed with h. Pylori at the same time as celiac, so my gut was a complete wreck!  I was put on 2 antibiotics, a PPI and Pepto.  I had read about acid rebound and decided to taper when it was time to come off.  I went from taking it daily to 1 every other day for a few days.  After that it was 1 every 3 days and after that I stopped.  I never did get the acid rebound, thankfully.

I really do hope you start feeling better!! ((((Hugs))))

Icelandgirl - that's really helpful, thank you!  It was probably a long time ago but do you recall how long you were on the PPI?

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11 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

Hi.  Hope you're feeling better.  

When I had Gerd, I found it helpful to lay on my left side after eating.  Laying on the left side straightens out the esophagus and the stomach, allowing for burps to escape more easily.  

Eating smaller, more frequent, bland meals helps, too.  Icelandgirl's crock pot chicken suggestion is a good one.  Throw in a carrot and some dill for healing chicken soup.

I hope you won't have to depend on the PPI very long.  They just made me feel worse in the long run.  Here's an article that discusses how use of some medications might cause further damage.  

https://www.celiac.com/articles/24743/1/What-Causes-Villus-Atrophy-in-Symptomatic-Celiac-Patients-on-a-Gluten-free-Diet/Page1.html

And one more of helpful information.

http://b12patch.com/blog/8-ailments-linked-with-gastritis-including-b12-deficiency/

Hope this helps.

Thanks so much knitty kitty.  I have the same question for you - how long were you taking the PPI?

I have such a curious sensation under my left rib today - feels like bloating. I've been looking at pics on the computer and it seems the stomach is more left than right, so perhaps that is it.  Had a good day yesterday - did loads of walking.  Seems to keep the wind away!

I like the tips in your second piece - I would like to learn to eat like an Italian!

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Hi, Cristiana,

Sorry, I don't remember exactly how long I was taking the PPI, omeprazole.  I believe it was less than a month.  It just made things worse.  I wouldn't recommend it.  I'm not a doctor and everybody is different, so you'll have to decide what is right for you.

What I did do was to go on a low histamine diet.  I found these sites very helpful. 

http://www.thepatientceliac.com/tag/mast-cell-activation-syndrome/

https://www.histamineintolerance.org.uk/about/the-food-diary/the-food-list/

Be aware that long term diarrhea can lead to malnutrition since nutrients don't stay in one's system long enough to be absorbed.  People with Celiac Disease are often deficient in the fat soluble vitamins A, D, E, and K, and in the eight B vitamins, plus minerals like calcium, magnesium, zinc and other trace minerals.  Get checked for vitamin deficiencies if possible.  And drink lots of water so you don't get dehydrated.

Try the low histamine diet for a few weeks, and see if that helps.  After you heal, you'll be able to add some foods back.  Keep a food journal to help pinpoint problematic foods.  

Hope this helps!

K 😺

 

 

 

 

 

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On 7/11/2017 at 7:31 PM, cristiana said:

Thanks so much for that - yes, I'm rather concerned about taking them long term.  I hope I won't need to.  

I was at my local pharmacy a month or so ago and chatting to the pharmacist. She said she was doing 35-40 omneprazole prescriptions per day - this in a tiny pharmacy serving quite a small area. 

I think there's an epidemic of prescribing this drug here in the UK at present. The worrying aspect is that a lot of people who go in it for that 4-6 week period don't come off it again afterwards. I'm not sure if this is due to poor follow up from the GP's or just a lazy/pragmatic decision by the NHS to manage the various symptoms rather than tackling sources. Either way, like GFinDC above I'm worried there's a price to be paid further down the line. I feel a similar way about the overprescribing of SSRI anti depressants also. :(

Anyway, I don't want to worry you 5 days in Cristiana! Ignore my ramblings. I hope they clear things up, but don't stay on them for longer unless you absolutely have to!

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Hi all

I'm very grateful for your input, JMG.  Thank you too Knitty Kitty.

I'm willing to try anything not to get stuck on this stuff.

It's not the first time I've taken it and it wasn't a picnic then.  Back in 2013 I took some ibuprofen for bad earrache.  Then I got what I imagine was acute gastritis - I was never told if it was that,  but the doc stuck me on opremazole in response.  I think a month's dose? Well, it helped take the pain away initially but then the D. started in earnest.  

After a month of D. and a couple of weeks of stomach pain preceding that I'd fulfilled the criteria of 6 weeks changed bowel habits and under NHS recommendations was entitled to the celiac blood test.  Lo and behold I had raging antibodies.   I think I must have come off the opremazole around that time thinking that the problem must be gluten, not opremazole, and thinking the D must be to do with gluten.  I had an endoscopy and was diagnosed by the April. I had reached the penultimate damage grade on the Marsh Scale.   I can't recall is if the diarrhea ceased following coming off the opremazole, or because I came off gluten.  Or even when I stopped dairy for a while.  I wish I'd kept a diary!

I have diarrhea again today - I had a fairly fatty diet yesterday so the next thing I need to look into is is this normal with opremazole, to not be able to eat fat....

Anyway, I don't want to end up on this stuff (apparently half our town is taking it, according to our local nutritionalist) so I'll look at the sites you've posted too, KK.  

I'm so bad at this uncertainty. Underlying it all I worry that I have something really bad. Uggh.... I hate how I have become a hypochondriac through all this.

Thank you my friends for your help, it means a great deal as my family have enough to put up without hearing me going on about my ailments!

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On 7/11/2017 at 11:31 AM, cristiana said:

Thanks so much for that - yes, I'm rather concerned about taking them long term.  I hope I won't need to.  

Think about something that could be unrelated to celiac disease.  What about posture?  Just being crunched over a phone or tablet for hours might impact the valve from your stomach to your esophagus.  Google it.  

I would really worry about PPIs, I do not think it is all about producing stomach acid.  Medical is great about fixing symptoms, but terrible in identifying the cause.  

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17 minutes ago, cyclinglady said:

Think about something that could be unrelated to celiac disease.  What about posture?  Just being crunched over a phone or tablet for hours might impact the valve from your stomach to your esophagus.  Google it.  

I would really worry about PPIs, I do not think it is all about producing stomach acid.  Medical is great about fixing symptoms, but terrible in identifying the cause.  

Actually, posture is an interesting thought.  This whole thing probably did kick off because of my aspirin (and iron) but over the last few months I have been doing far too much leaning over my computer.  The days I get out and get loads of exercise really helps.  You may have something there!  Thank you.

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On 7/15/2017 at 9:56 AM, cristiana said:

Icelandgirl - that's really helpful, thank you!  It was probably a long time ago but do you recall how long you were on the PPI?

Hi Cristiana,

I was on it daily for a month.  During that time I learned about acid rebound and was scared to experience it.  So when my month was over, I started tapering.  I didn't experience any issues coming off.  

I do hope you start feeling better.  Maybe it would be good to stay on a very mild diet for a bit.  I have lived on chicken, boiled potatoes, rice, bananas and berries for periods of time when I needed to.  I'm not suggesting that you need to go that far, but maybe your body needs some foods that are gentle to your system for now.

Feel better!

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On 7/8/2017 at 1:59 PM, cristiana said:

I wondered if anyone has had recourse to use slippery elm for either gastritis or glutening.  I am not sure which I have but the pain is just below my sternum, a sort of burning gnawing pain that started a week ago and has waxed and waned to some degree depending on the food I have consumed (spicy/fatty food/dairy being the worst).

i have similar symptoms now, thanks to sudden new dairy intolerance after increased dairy consumption in April and a McDonald's milkshake in early May.   i think sometimes we start increasing certain foods or a variety of foods, and then it catches up.   I thought at first I'd been glutened, but by the time the test kits arrived I was suspecting dairy and a variety of dietary indiscretions more. 

I am now treating with Pepcid (famotidine) 20 mg., twice a day, supplemented by Tums and simethicone (gas-x). I just saw a new PCP and he OK'd this, said Pepcid is far less effective than PPIs, but to give it a 2 week trial. 

For the last two months, I was using only Tums, simethecone, Kaopectate (no dye like Pepto), and experimented with fennel and peppermint tea.  The fennel tea helped a lot, but I read negative things about it, so stopped.  

Other things that are helping: I sleep propped up on my left, wear loose pants, bra half-hooked, eat tiny meals, walk after dinner, limit beverages with meals to decrease overall volume at once in my stomach, and don't eat within a few hours of bedtime.  Acid production typically increases overnight, so I get up and have Tums if my symptoms wake me up.  I find driving makes it worse, even if I slightly recline the seat back;  my innards just get too cramped in car seating.  Standing and walking make it better.  Walking helps digestion, so walking with an uncomfortable tummy actually feels better when you're done, even if it initially seems to make it worse. 

I was on Prilosec for a few years pre-Celiac diagnosis.  I planned to wean off after diagnosis and a few months of gluten-free eaing, but quit cold turkey when it started raising my blood pressure.  So I chose to avoid that now.   My GI had recommended Tums for a previous bout of indigestion, so I used that as a first recourse for the current problem.  

Other things i tried for this current bout that were / weren't effective:

- Probiotics;  GI recommended Align (eyeroll ... it has dairy!) or Culturelle (it has inulin, which my body often doesn't like).   i chose the Culturelle, and stayed with it for the 2 weeks prescribed.  Had awful lower GI symptoms for the whole two weeks, so I switched to Florijan3 ... not much better.  Tried a couple others briefly, then gave it up.  When I quit probiotics, the lower GI got better, and I was back where  I started, with upper GI symptoms.

- Low acid, low FODMAP, low lectin foods:  eating low lectin foods that were also low acid made the biggest impact for me, but then my dietary indiscretions (besides the McDonald's shake and increased dairy) had been mostly high lectin/ high acid foods.   I spent a few weeks eating mainly rice, Earth balance margarine, a little soy milk or rice milk, airy (non heavy) nondairy gluten-free bakery bread, salmon, tuna, sweet potatoes, chicken.  I stopped oatmeal, salads, and many veggies.  I avoided nut products, except macadamia milk, unsweetened.

I've lost most of my summer due to this illness, but 2.5 months later i am finally feeling good enough to start doing more, thanks to the above.

Getting back to your original question, I have never tried slippery elm ... but what I've written above has helped tremendously.  Hope something in here might help you. 

 

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9 hours ago, Whitepaw said:

Other things that are helping: I sleep propped up on my left, wear loose pants, bra half-hooked, eat tiny meals, walk after dinner, limit beverages with meals to decrease overall volume at once in my stomach, and don't eat within a few hours of bedtime.  Acid production typically increases overnight, so I get up and have Tums if my symptoms wake me up.  I find driving makes it worse, even if I slightly recline the seat back;  my innards just get too cramped in car seating.  Standing and walking make it better.  Walking helps digestion, so walking with an uncomfortable tummy actually feels better when you're done, even if it initially seems to make it worse.

Whitepaw - thank you for this very instructive post.  I have highlighted part of your post for anyone else who is looking for tips as I too have found these tips do help.  Having read most of what Dr Google has to say on the subject this is advice that comes up a lot again and again.  Tight clothing is definitely something to avoid, and I cannot believe how when this thing was at its worse just how uncomfortable it was to bend down to get something out of the fridge!

 It is so interesting to me that walking is part of the medicine - I suppose it helps getting things moving. I don't belch at all really if I walk after a meal.

I am opening up my capsules and taking the contents (without crunching the little beads) with water, which is a tip given on the packet for people who can't swallow pills.  In addition I am gradually reducing the dosage by a few beads a day (something else I read) and suddenly my stomach feels so much better.  I wonder if this is because I am reducing the dosage or getting rid of the capsule!

I read that Manuka honey with a small piece of bread between meals helps - it certainly is for me. Plus peppermint tea.  I was drinking Fennel but ran out so perhaps, in view of what you say, it is just as well.

I am so sorry you have lost so much of your summer to this thing.  I totally understand what you mean by that - the last three weeks have been horrid. Let's hope we can enjoy a good symptom free autumn!

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Hi Cristina,

Thank you ... 

A couple other things to consider:

- Your stomach is about the size of your fist.   Lol, I always think of it as being more like 2-3 fists.  I recently read that eating smaller amounts that do not fill the stomach makes it easier for the stomach to do its work.   i have started matching meals to my fist size or less, and do much better.   I may have to eat more often, but I do feel better.   I also have to watch beverages with meals.   I've taken to sipping only a little water, to keep the total intake amount to fist size.

- Many women's pants have built in tummy control.  Sometimes it's an obvious panel.  More often, they just extend the front pocket material to the center front of the pants and stitch it along the zipper line.   This has caused me endless stomach upset when my stomach is bad.   Cutting the pocket fabric extension relieves that pressure and allows the front of the pants to stretch as you move.  I usually snip about 2/3 of the length, right along where it is stitched to the zipper.   I  start from the bottom and work up toward the waist.  

I think what I read about fennel tea had something to do with cancer risk, but you may want to look it up yourself. 

I will try the honey and bread.  I also find that Schar Shortbread cookies settle my stomach. 

If you need to find a lovely light tasty bread, try Gluten Free Specialties (formerly called Celiac Specialties).  Their bread varies between being very light and airy (sometimes has holes) and being somewhat more dense, as the weather impacts the final product.  It's the closest to regular gluten bread that I've ever tasted, and it is soothing when I have indigestion. I believe they have free shipping this summer.  http://www.baking-glutenfree.com/  

 

 

 

 

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Thanks so much, Whitepaw.

We can get Schar products in the UK and they are really good - they make the nearest thing to a Twix that I have found, although I think I have had a rather negative run in with chocolate in the last 24 hours (still not healed enough to eat it, obviously) so won't buy one of their 'Twixe's' for a while.  But I agree, shortbread is easy on the stomach.   

I have to say I had to laugh whilst reading your post as I read it wrong first time.  Here in the UK 'pants' means undergarments/briefs/knickers... (or whatever the 'mot juste' is in American English).  We use the word trousers where Americans say 'pant's - it causes quite a bit of confusion.  But either way, all that elastic and support is a nightmare! In fact, since my celiac diagnosis I can hardly cope with anything restrictive around my waist. I thought things would improve but they never did.  A good tip, thanks.:D

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      Second thought in the US you have to a take more careful with CC and chains, the kids go in and out of these like crazy and think gluten free is a kind of fad. I would avoid chains of fast food restaurants here if celiac.
      Sorry just did not want some bloke from here in the US seeing this and going OOHHH the fries are SAFE, then blam married to the toilet for hours.
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