Monosodium Glutamate

[Tavi2]

Are monosodium glutamate the same as gluten?

[rinne]

No, MSG is not gluten.

MSG stimulates the brain so that the food tastes good to you, it allow manufacturers to use cheap ingredients. It causes many problems for up to 40% of the population, is in most processed food and is called other names like hydrolyzed vegetable protein.

It was one of the first sensitivities I noticed, I would get headaches, a burning tongue and a feeling like something was crawling under my skin.

Oops, just noticed that you are new, welcome.

[Guest Robbin]

Hi and I would like to welcome you too. MSG is horrible for my whole family. I really don't know anyone that isn't sensitive to it. I sometimes wonder if that is why there is such a raging obesity problem in this country since it is so addictive. I get migraines and D from it, and so does my youngest son. It is one of those additives that keep many people guessing as to why they are still sick after eliminating gluten, so be aware of that. Take care.

[Guest Norah022]

Some MSG does have gluten in it though!

[Tim-n-VA]

Some MSG does have gluten in it though!

Really? I thought MSG was a chemical compound added to food. While it can be added to food containing gluten that isn't the same as the MSG having gluten. Am I missing something? It is tricky reading these labels.

[RiceGuy]

The manufacturers do have tricks to conceal the way they add MSG to products, so they skirt around the labeling laws. They will even boldly say "no MSG" and such! And yes, it IS responsible for some portion of the diabetes and obesity in America. Since the 1970's it has been used to actually make rats develop diabetes and obesity, so they can test drugs on them afterwards! Maybe it has gluten in some cases, but even if it doesn't I won't put that garbage in my body.

Here are some articles and links to some good info on MSG:

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

[KaitiUSA]

MSG is ok from a gluten standpoint but it is so bad for you and actually causes drug reactions in the body.

[rinne]

Some MSG does have gluten in it though!

I think you may be right about that. It could be hidden in there, I have avoided it for so many years and really haven't looked at it closely lately, I should be more careful about what I say, thanks.

[Tim-n-VA]

Monosodium Glutamate (MSG)

MSG is the sodium salt of glutamic acid, an amino acid found in many foods. It has been produced from both wheat gluten and sugar beet molasses but is now produced almost entirely from the latter in a highly purified form. Most authorities agree that it is harmless. There should be no concern among Celiacs about the use of foods containing MSG.

I'm new at this, diagnosed with celiac about a month ago. One of the most frustrating parts of this is the conflicting information. The above quote is from the Open Original Shared Link. It certainly isn't easy to figure out what to eat. Consider this article on Open Original Shared Link:

MSG is on the list of foods for celiac patients to avoid. Wheat is such a good source of glutamic acid, as is soy, and corn, that MSG is often made from these foods.

[eKatherine]

I'm new at this, diagnosed with celiac about a month ago. One of the most frustrating parts of this is the conflicting information. The above quote is from the Open Original Shared Link. It certainly isn't easy to figure out what to eat. Consider this article on Open Original Shared Link:

You need to read your sources carefully and consider where they are coming from. Is it from a pro-msg source (like an msg manufacturer or chemical group), a neutral source, or an anti-msg source. And what does the research actually state?

Open Original Shared Link

I looked at this report which was given above. 634 people agreed to participate in the study. They selected the first 61 people who identified themselves as msg-sensitive and gave them a 5 gram dose of msg or a placebo on an empty stomach. They retested the ones who got the placebo on another day.

The reactions were recorded. People who were sensitive were given three different doses of msg to see if the response was dose dependent.

Based on the study criteria, people who showed two symptoms from the msg they took were considered sensitive. 36 of the 60 were actually sensitive. What does this mean? 24 of 60 people who thought they were sensitive had no reaction to a HUGE dose of msg on an empty stomach. Also, headache alone was not a good indicator, as more people taking the placebo got headaches than the msg group.

So this report doesn't give any support to the idea that msg is a chronic toxin or that everybody is sensitive to it, and certainly not to the idea that msg is responsible for all the obesity in the country - I wish it were, I cook all my own food from scratch, so I should be at the lowest intake level, but I'm hardly thin. Obesity is probably related to a great many dietary changes that have occurred over the last 50 years.

[RiceGuy]

I'm new at this, diagnosed with celiac about a month ago. One of the most frustrating parts of this is the conflicting information.

Yes, but in the case of MSG the evidence is overwhelming, so I'm really surprised that anyone would suggest it's safe. It may not be a gluten source, but it is a known toxin. It will kill brain cells too when the level is high enough, and apparently that's easy to achieve. So I don't think of it as something a Celiac in particular should be avoiding, but that everyone should avoid it. It's just bad, like other harmful substances such as many pesticides for example.

[Rikki Tikki]

Just saw your name and thought I was going batty and didn't remember posting something! Is Tavi your real name?

I have never met another Tavi before. People are really going to get confused now!

Welcome Tavi, I have never had the opprotunity to say that before

Please don't tell me that's your dog's name?

[Tim-n-VA]

Yes, but in the case of MSG the evidence is overwhelming, so I'm really surprised that anyone would suggest it's safe. It may not be a gluten source, but it is a known toxin. It will kill brain cells too when the level is high enough, and apparently that's easy to achieve. So I don't think of it as something a Celiac in particular should be avoiding, but that everyone should avoid it. It's just bad, like other harmful substances such as many pesticides for example.

Your post supports the point I was making. You state that MSG is a known toxin in a post immediately following a post the cited a scientific study on the effects of varying amounts of MSG on self-described MSG-sensitive subjects. A google search for MSG returns on the first page, articles both for and against MSG including one from the FDA that doesn't call MSG a toxin.

I don't know whether MSG is creating problems in people but nothing in this thread makes it a clear issue.

[RiceGuy]

Your post supports the point I was making. You state that MSG is a known toxin in a post immediately following a post the cited a scientific study on the effects of varying amounts of MSG on self-described MSG-sensitive subjects. A google search for MSG returns on the first page, articles both for and against MSG including one from the FDA that doesn't call MSG a toxin.

I don't know whether MSG is creating problems in people but nothing in this thread makes it a clear issue.

Well, I'd point out that just because a person doesn't notice any effect doesn't mean there isn't. We all know how the damage from gluten can go on for years unnoticed, and even doctors still can't see it in many cases. As I searched around for articles on MSG, I found a whole lot more to suggest it's bad than anything else. Not to go off-topic, but try searching for fluoride and see what you get. It's toxic too, and with overwhelming evidence, but the American Dental Association is still trying to pretend it's safe or even beneficial. A number of countries have banned it. Here's just one link: Open Original Shared Link

Anyway, one thing is quite clear, and that is no matter what the issue, you'll get folks on both sides. I guess that's what makes them topics for discussion in the first place. Heck, there are even people who think smoking tobacco is beneficial! But just because Open Original Shared Link believes it doesn't mean it's true.

Like they say, it takes all kinds...

[Rachel--24]

I looked at this report which was given above. 634 people agreed to participate in the study. They selected the first 61 people who identified themselves as msg-sensitive and gave them a 5 gram dose of msg or a placebo on an empty stomach. They retested the ones who got the placebo on another day.

The reactions were recorded. People who were sensitive were given three different doses of msg to see if the response was dose dependent.

Based on the study criteria, people who showed two symptoms from the msg they took were considered sensitive. 36 of the 60 were actually sensitive. What does this mean? 24 of 60 people who thought they were sensitive had no reaction to a HUGE dose of msg on an empty stomach. Also, headache alone was not a good indicator, as more people taking the placebo got headaches than the msg group.

So this report doesn't give any support to the idea that msg is a chronic toxin or that everybody is sensitive to it, and certainly not to the idea that msg is responsible for all the obesity in the country - I wish it were, I cook all my own food from scratch, so I should be at the lowest intake level, but I'm hardly thin. Obesity is probably related to a great many dietary changes that have occurred over the last 50 years.

Yes, but were you aware that for these studies they were using Aspartame in the placebos!! That is why the people taking the placebos were getting headaches. Most people who are sensitive to MSG are also sensitive to Aspartame. Another trick to convince us that MSG is safe when all of the evidence shows thats its not. Using Aspartame in the placebos completley negates the results of the study. It only proves that aspartame is just as bad as MSG....and why do you think they would think to do such a thing?? Why put Aspartame in a placebo....hmmm....me thinks they were up to something.

Also what do those who are anti-Msg really stand to gain by speaking out about the dangers of a known neuorotoxin....other than to eduacte and warn the general public???

I'm thinking the pro-Msger's are the ones who will really benefit from having pulled the wool over the eyes of the people. It comes down to the almighty $$....and yes, MSG is a huge contributer to the obesity factor here in the US. Nevermind that though....MSG makes big bucks for the food industry and so they have *everything* to gain by making false statements and by putting another known neurotoxin into their placebo. Again...I have to ask....why would they do this???

[Tim-n-VA]

Yes, but were you aware that for these studies they were using Aspartame in the placebos!!

The article cited didn't mention aspartame. Where did you get that information? Not trying to be difficult but my whole point in this thread is that anyone can put anything they want on the internet which makes it difficult to make correct decisions.

The obvious solution is to be very aware of who is putting the information out. On the MSG topic, I am very skeptical of both the industry "Pro MSG" and the advocacy "Anti MSG" sites.

[RiceGuy]

Some months ago, I was looking at a company website that specializes in cheese substitute products which are gluten-free, but they had a yeast of some kind in at least some of their products. That ingredient will put MSG into the product, and they actually claimed "No MSG". So I contacted them and asked for an explanation. It took something like two months for them to reply. When they finally wrote back, they did not dispute the presents of MSG in their products at all. Their response could be summed up with something like "Well, yeah, but it's a small amount".

So, how much is a "small amount"? There isn't much cyanide in a peach pit either, but it's not like we should eat them. Interestingly, the ingredients and the "No MSG" claims are no longer on the site I only find ingredients for two items, neither of which list the yeast. I do not know if those items had it listed previously. However, they do say "Natural Flavors (no MSG)", so I'm guessing this is their new labeling tactic.

I've never liked seeing an ingredient listed only as "Natural Flavors". I also think it's suspicious when the list states "Spices", giving no specifics whatsoever as to what that includes. What about individuals who are allergic to certain spices? What is the definition of a spice? If an ingredient which is only added for flavor and no other reason can be termed a spice, then the consumer is even more at the mercy of the manufacturer.

[RiceGuy]

I must make a correction on my previous post, as I did find the company's statement about MSG. They still maintain the claim of no MSG, but also say "We do use inactivated yeast extract as a natural flavor." So, while they can slip through the FDA's loopholes, their products most certainly contain Free Glutamic Acid, which will readily be transformed into MSG anyway. That's why they are adding such an ingredient in the first place! When was the last time you saw a food item designated as being "yeast flavored"? That wouldn't likely be very popular. Fruit flavors on the other hand are indeed quite popular.

[eKatherine]

Also what do those who are anti-Msg really stand to gain by speaking out about the dangers of a known neuorotoxin....other than to eduacte and warn the general public???

I'm thinking the pro-Msger's are the ones who will really benefit from having pulled the wool over the eyes of the people. It comes down to the almighty $$....and yes, MSG is a huge contributer to the obesity factor here in the US. Nevermind that though....MSG makes big bucks for the food industry and so they have *everything* to gain by making false statements and by putting another known neurotoxin into their placebo. Again...I have to ask....why would they do this???

Show me the evidence that "msg is a huge contributor to the obesity factor in the US". I cook all my food from scratch, and never add msg, but I'm overweight.

[Rikki Tikki]

Show me the evidence that "msg is a huge contributor to the obesity factor in the US". I cook all my food from scratch, and never add msg, but I'm overweight.

I think the statement she is trying to make is that MSG is a big contributor to obesity, not the only cause. I think genetics also play a role. My dad was a very heavy man yet never ate MSG or anything cooked with it, so for him it was more a lifestyle and genetics that caused him to be overweight. It's like someone saying celiac causes everyone to be thin, we know that's not true.

Just my thoughts

[eKatherine]

I think the statement she is trying to make is that MSG is a big contributor to obesity, not the only cause.

I'm sure that's what she's trying to say, but I'd be glad to settle for evidence of that, too. So many dietary changes have occurred in the past generation or two that I'd want to see some clear evidence that it has any effect on the weight of humans before putting it on the list with things like high fructose corn syrup and hydrogenated (and unhydrogenated) vegetable oils and trends away from meat and animal fat.

The biggest "cause" of increase in obesity in this country was when they decided to change the table so that overnight several million more people became obese. Any discussion of rates of obesity in generations past that fails to acknowledge this difference is leaving out something important from the discussion.

[Rikki Tikki]

I think about that also Katherine. I look around at so many overweight children and just people in our society and I look at the number of vehicles at McDonalds and other fast food joints, when I was a kid eating out at McDonalds was a treat and not one we got to have very often, now it's just easier for people to stop and grab something. The same thing with soda (of which I drink a lot of) when I was growing up we just seldom had it. We seem to be living in the day and age where we eat a lot of really high calorie food. It does seem many more people are overweight than what used to be and I do think it is partly because of the way we eat now.

I know that the change in the table affected many people but I also see evidence of a huge change in bodies since I was a kid, a big change in eating habits. Maybe it's not just the way we eat but the number of foods that are now processed, the high fructose corn syrup and fats and oils that didn't used to be added to our foods. My mom made everything from scratch and yet my dad would just eat more of it than the rest of us, and he was a big man.

I don't even thing physical education is required in schools every year like it used to be. Kids now sit in front of computers (like moms and play games where when we were kids we were out playing. The numbers of people diagnosed diabetic has increased, and the list goes on and on.

[Rachel--24]

Tavi,

Yes, I was only stating that its a huge factor in obesity....not the sole cause. Many things can contribute...gentecics included. It certainly cant help that MSG is in just about everything processed and a very large portion of the american diet is processed foods.

The amounts of MSG hidden in our foods has steadily increased over the years....dramatically. I saw the numbers once but have since forgotten....it was staggering though. Just look around....obesity has also increased dramatically. Something has got to be causing this epidemic. Genetics cant be causing this problem....its just way to widespread and not as much of an issue in other countries where they give more thought to what goes into their food supply.

In studies they do on mice...if they need to "fatten" up the mice....they feed them MSG. That is what they do to get nice obese mice for the purpose of their studies. Its not rocket science if you know exactly what MSG is and what it does. It alters the brain...the part of the brain that would typically tell you when you are full and when to stop eating. It causes you to eat more. It affects the tastebuds as well....leaving you wanting more of whatever it is you're eating.

Obviously if you are eating more food than what is necessary for your body....you will become overweight. Maybe not because of MSG alone...but there is also an overabundence of other "junk" in our food supply. Then there is the fact that kids dont excersise as much...too much TV, video games, junk food, and not enough excercise.

Its a combination of many things but I think our food supply is probably the BIGGEST problem with the rise in obesity in this country.

Has anyone seen "Supersize Me"? The guy gained over 20 lbs. in one month.

Yeah....most of us dont eat McDonalds morning, noon and night....but what alot of Americans do eat isnt a whole lot better. I think it would cause the same problem whether it was McDonalds, Taco Bell, Jack in The Box, Round Table....or half of the stuff on the aisles of the grocery store.

[eKatherine]

Yes, I was only stating that its a huge factor in obesity....not the sole cause.

Again, "huge factor", which is to say, a major factor. I'm looking for some sort of reference, since this board is the only place I have ever read that, while in many places I have seen references to increased consumption of high fructose corn syrup, sweetened beverages such as sodas and fruit drinks, shift to more vegetable oils, especially hydrogenated ones with trans fat, portion size in restaurants, shift from eating meals to constantly eating snacks, the recommended switch to eating "fat free" foods with less protein and more carbs (read: wheat)...

[RiceGuy]

Again, "huge factor", which is to say, a major factor. I'm looking for some sort of reference...

OK, since you asked for it (and I guess you mean something more "official"), here's just one of many:

Open Original Shared Link