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Ferguston

Candida infection or something else?

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I took a B complex the other day, I felt more agitated, but at night was the worse, I could not sleep well, got heart flutters, anxiety and a mild panic attack. For some reason I can't handle B vitamins. They make me feel the same as I've been drinking coffee, that's why I tend to avoid stimulants.

Any reasons to why I would feel like this because of B vitamins? (They are Solaray B-Complex 100).

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Ferguston,

I looked at the label.....I didn't see anything that stood out...

Some B-Vitamins have B-Like substances....kind of Para B-Vitamins....but are not considered true B-Vitamins...

Inositol, Choline and PABA for example...

I personally can't handle anything with Calcium in it...B-5 Panothenic Acid in the D-calcium form....

I don't know if that is your problem....Did you take any Magnesium Glycinate....it can have a calming effect...

I have got my nephew on some Magnesium to help his depression...

See this research about Magnesium and how it can calm the mind of depression.

"Rapid recovery from major depression using magnesium treatment."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16542786/

I used to have alot of anxiety and depression before taking Magnesium....

Magnesium and Calcium work as opposites in the body...

You can try taking just one B-Vitamin at a time....or try some Nutritional Yeast (It has B-Vitamins in it)...

Braggs is a popular Nutritional Yeast....

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/bragg-premium-nutritional-yeast-seasoning-4-5-oz-127-grams-flakes

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.

Posterboy,

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I will keep this in mind. Right now I don't have the money to try all the different supplements. But I did have a good magnesium supplement today in the morning, it did make me feel a little better. Also eating spinach makes me feel a little better, but it doesn't last that long.

From what I can see, as day pass by, I feel weird. Like, I get more agitated after meals, my head feels heavy, like blood is pumping, but not pain like in a headache. Heavy breathing in the first hour of a meal. It's like how I felt the day I took the B complex supplement, only milder and doesn't last for that long.

Can refeeding syndrome last for a long time?

I also think that I might be healing nerve damage, hence why I feel this way. But this one is just a little idea I had, maybe just so I can have a possitive outlook on this.

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I tried Solaray B Complex a while back, but couldn't tolerate them because of the RICE BRAN, RICE GERM and RICE POLISHINGS.  

The bran and germ is where lectins lurk and can trigger immune responses.  (Some Celiacs react to rice because of this.)   

I can't tolerate brown rice (unpolished rice), although I can tolerate Basmati rice (white/polished rice that has that bran and germ removed).

Some Celiacs have a genetic MTHFR mutation that accompanies the Celiac genes.  I take the methylated forms of B12 and folate, methylcobalamin and methylfolate.  The methylated forms are easier for the body to use.

I also prefer to take some of my B vitamins separately because I wanted more thiamine and niacin than in the B Complex one a day type vitamins.  

And, yes, there is a so-called "paradox" where you feel worse before feeling better as you start supplementing and your body starts functioning better.  The paradox will go away within days or weeks depending on how deficient you are.

Hope this helps!

 

On 7/21/2020 at 11:49 PM, Ferguston said:

I took a B complex the other day, I felt more agitated, but at night was the worse, I could not sleep well, got heart flutters, anxiety and a mild panic attack. For some reason I can't handle B vitamins. They make me feel the same as I've been drinking coffee, that's why I tend to avoid stimulants.

Any reasons to why I would feel like this because of B vitamins? (They are Solaray B-Complex 100).

 

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I am still trying to figure out my post-breakfast fatigue, which usually coincides with eating toast, butter and jam. (When I'm not eating over 8 g of added sugar, I still may be eating toast and butter but not the jam.) It just happened after eating Udi's Millet Chia bread. It has only 3g of sugar of which 2 g are added. 300 mg of sodium. Ingredients are tapioca starch, brown rice flour, corn starch, chia seeds, xanthan gum, millet, and many others, too many to type out now. The brown rice flour is actually followed by flour (rice flour, rice bran with germ). Well, I can't figure this all out. Maybe it's one of those specific ingredients, maybe it's not, maybe it's the sugar in the jam. Maybe I'm tired. The one area that does still drive me is figuring out the association with eating breakfast with my SVTs.

At any rate, I'm sorry to say I'm a bit skeptical of SIBO diagnoses. I have no doubt they exist, but not at the levels that many believe. As for vitamins, I would not ever start taking almost any kind of vitamin without either checking with my doctor or getting a blood test. You may well be wasting money and/or endangering yourself. I would proceed carefully.

@FergustonWhy do you think you have refeeding syndrome?


Diagnosed with Celiac in 2010. Diagnosed with sleep apnea 2018.

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4 hours ago, plumbago said:

rgustonWhy do you think you have refeeding syndrome?

Plumbago et Al,

They probably think they have Reefeeding Syndrome because I recently wrote a posterboy blog post on it.

Electrolyte abnormalities and unintended weight loss could be a sign of Refeeding syndrome going undiagnosed or it could be a Celiac Crisis...

Here a couple articles about it...one entitled "Refeeding syndrome in adults with celiac crisis: a case report"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5791168/

they say quoting

"During celiac crisis, the risk of RFS should be assessed. Recent studies highlight the interest of supplementing systematically with vitamins, selenium, magnesium, and thiamine on admission and even in the absence of biological abnormality."

And this medical news today article..

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322120#who-is-at-risk

I had creatine in my kidneys, low potassium levels, low albumin levels and severe fatigue.....two or more of these factors are enough to diagnose someone with Refeeding Syndrome....but my doctor's didn't know to look...and are common in a Celiac crisis at diagnosis...

the problem unless you have been admitted to an ER emergency room their is no awareness that these things are happening in Celiac's...

The doctor knew I had these condition's (Blood anomalies) but didn't know what they meant....

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.

Posterboy,

 

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Plumbago and Knitty Kitty,

This is the reference work  by Lonsdale on the difference between a Thiamine Deficiency and Beri Beri....there is a difference...

Plumbago I am posting it mainly for you....I have been reducing my time on the forum to focus more on spiritual issues and other things in life related to family and I thought it might help you most...since this is actually in your line of work..

The creatine in my kidneys was one of the first sign I was low in Thiamine....

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1375232/

It was not a complication of my Type II diabetes as is putatively (commonly) believed....it is an early sign you are low in Thiamine....

My elevated Creatine got better.....but my blood sugar levels why better are still prediabetic...though it did help lower my overall blood sugar counts....my complications thought to be from diabetes did get better though...

quoting from the article...

"Platt (20) reported that all his patients with the mild and subacute forms of beriberi had creatinuria."

This article explains well to how Elevated Liver Enzymes found in Celiacs' can be a sign of Gastrointestinal Beri beri...

See this article entitled "Elevated Lactate Secondary to Gastrointestinal Beriberi"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4699997/

Where they note  "a mildly elevated aspartate aminotransferase (AST) of 48 IU/L (normal 0–40 IU/uL). All other serum chemistry, renal function tests, liver function enzymes, and lipase were within normal limits.....Meanwhile, the patient’s liver function tests worsened to an AST of 134 and an alanine aminotransferase (ALT) of 187 IU/L by day 10."

quoting again....

"Insufficient thiamine as a cause of elevated lactate is easily and inexpensively treated, and should be considered in cases of unexplained elevated lactate levels, especially those who concurrently present with gastrointestinal symptoms not otherwise explained.6 The described patient was difficult to diagnose due to a lack of risk factors for thiamine deficiency, the concurrent presence of a duodenal ulcer, and a lack of neurological findings besides chest tingling.12

Outcomes of delayed diagnosis of thiamine deficiency as a cause of elevated lactate and gastroenterological symptoms can lead to unnecessary tests, procedures, and even death.13,14 In this case, an initial lack of consideration of thiamine deficiency led to the patient having an unnecessary repeat abdominal CT scan and CT angiography, and ultimately a prolonged hospital stay. While thiamine deficiency is now commonly associated with alcohol abuse, suspicion should be maintained for gastrointestinal surgery and fad diets as causes, including in the obese."

I would also like to quote this article for you Plumbago since you work at diagnosing Wernicke Encephalopathy....entitled "Gastrointestinal beriberi: a forme fruste (incomplete picture) of Wernicke's encephalopathy?" It is only the abstract so it can be scanned quickly.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29982183/

Here is the abstract in it's entirety...

"Gastrointestinal symptoms, such as anorexia, nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain, are very common in patients with Wernicke's encephalopathy (WE). Mild thiamine deficiency may have only gastrointestinal symptoms. We are reporting two patients with thiamine deficiency who predominantly had gastrointestinal symptoms. Case 1: a 38-year-old man had gastrointestinal problems for about 2-3 years. It gradually became severe. The patient came to the neurology outpatient department for his recent-onset vertigo and headache. Clinical examinations fulfilled Caine's criteria of WE. Gastrointestinal symptoms responded dramatically to intravenous thiamine. Case 2: a 21-year-old woman developed drug-induced hepatitis and gastritis. Associated nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain progressively increased over the weeks. The patient responded only to intravenous thiamine administration.We suggest that a suspicion for gastrointestinal beriberi should arise if gastrointestinal symptoms (anorexia, nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain) are refractory to the usual therapies."

Let me quote their premise again because it bears repeating....since Gastro symptom's are not often thought to be linked to brain issues....

"Gastrointestinal symptoms, such as anorexia, nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain, are very common in patients with Wernicke's encephalopathy (WE).

Maybe this will help you be a better clinician....

It happened to me and why I can explain it too others, God being my help!

2 Timothy 2:7 “Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things” this included.

Posterboy by the grace of God,

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Someone reminded me about vitamin D, that taking more than you need might cause my symptoms. I am/was still taking vit D for over two months, almost finishing the third, since I was deficient, but maybe now that I am gluten free for a while, I might have too much of it, even if I only took 2000UI.

Also, that part for the "Elevated Liver Enzymes found in Celiacs' can be a sign of Gastrointestinal Beri beri" sounds interesting.

@plumbago Yes @Posterboy is right, I read his post, and was just thinking it could be, since my symptoms always start after I ate. But now I'm thinking it could be because of too much vitamin D3, since when I ate more calcium rich foods the more I felt my head like exploding.

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@Ferguston

What is your Vitamin D level? What are the levels of your B vitamins? It would be good to know before you start experimenting, but be careful going to enclosed offices, obviously.

In one of your posts you said you are overweight. Refeeding syndrome is even rarer than SIBO, even among celiacs, and I imagine among the overweight, rarer still - so all I can say at this point, is proceed cautiously when taking advice on the Internet. (Including this, yes, I know, including this :))

Plumbago


Diagnosed with Celiac in 2010. Diagnosed with sleep apnea 2018.

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Well, back when I did my Vitamin D levels, they where 15 ng/ml. After that data, I started taking 2000UI.

Today I went and did my liver enzymes and my 25 OH Vitamin D. I'm still waiting for my Vitamin D levels, but there's good news, my liver enzymes are back to normal, I'm happy about that.

Right now, with no actual data, I can just speculate that it might be the liver starting to process my skin vitamin D (since I started to walk more in the sun now), together with my supplement and that might place me in the toxic levels. Just a guess.

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I'm doubtful that you've developed vitamin D toxicity.  It takes months and months of much higher doses of vitamin D (100,000 IU per day) to develop toxicity.  Your skin has an automatic turn off mechanism so you can't overdose on Vitamin D by being out in the sun.

Are you taking vitamin D2 or vitamin D3?    Vitamin D 3 is the naturally occurring form.  Your body uses this form more readily.  Vitamin D2 is the synthetic form of Vitamin D made in laboratory from irradiated yeast.  It is not the form of Vitamin D that the body can use easily.  Vitamin D2 is the form doctors prescribe.  

What are the calcium rich foods you are eating?  Some Celiacs have lactose intolerance or casein allergy.  

 

 

 

Edited by knitty kitty
Typo

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7 hours ago, plumbago said:

In one of your posts you said you are overweight. Refeeding syndrome is even rarer than SIBO, even among celiacs, and I imagine among the overweight, rarer still - so all I can say at this point, is proceed cautiously when taking advice on the Internet. (Including this, yes, I know, including this :))

Plumbago and Ferguston,

SIBO is more common in Celiac's than people/doctor's understand often these days.

The same can be said about a Thiamine deficiency in the Obese....

See this research about it....entitled "Thiamin(e) Deficiency in People with Obesity"

https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/6/2/147/4558021

If you have Refeeding syndrome you will have electrolyte abnormalities...

A key symptom of Malnutrition is Low Albumin levels with or without weight loss....I had low Albumin without weight Loss and why the doctor's probably didn't associate the two.

But it is a either/OR circumstance.....you don't have to have BOTH.....but if (Unintentional/Unknown) cause of Weight Loss is your complaint....then you should definitely consider Refeeding syndrome.....even if you are over weight still and also have electrolyte abnormalities like I did!

If you know why you lost weight and was trying to loose weight....then as Plumbago said.....maybe you shouldn't be concerned....if you were not trying to loose weight....then it might be a valid concern....

If you have low albumin levels you have things in your body causing you to loose protein like unchecked inflammation...and if you are a non-responsive Celiac then SIBO should be considered as a differential diagnosis.

See this article about it...entitled "Protein losing enteropathy: comprehensive review of the mechanistic association with clinical and subclinical disease states"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28761367/

Try you some epsom salts in your bath.....if fatigue or muscle cramps is symptom of yours....it can help with fatigue by helping you absorb Magnesium through your skin.

Never use Epsom Salts when you are alone.....because they can cause to be drowsy and  fall asleep in the bath tub...

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.

Posterboy,

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I've stopped eating anything that has lactose, it made me have a bad digestion. The only calcium sources for me are either beans, spinach or other foods, like some fish, or some meats.

My Vitamin D came back today, it's only 32.5 ng/ml. In the normal range. But for some reason my head still explodes when I take Vitamin D. Now I've read that Vitamin D can reveal early hyperparathyroidism, once it gets to normal.

Back when I was vitamin D deficient, my calcium levels where 10,25, almost at the maximum limit, 10,4. Knowing this now, I will go and order my PTH and my calcium levels. Better to be safe.

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Ferguston,

Do you have an allergy to wool?  Or to fish?  Or yeast?

Some vitamin D 3 supplements are made from lanolin from sheep's wool.  If you have an allergy to wool, this could explain your hypersensitivity/histamine reaction to your supplements.  

Some vitamin D supplements are made from fish, like cod liver oil.  If you're allergic to fish, this probably isn't for you.

Some vitamin D 2 supplements are made from yeast.  If you have a sensitivity to yeast, this may not be the type of supplement for you.  Besides, it's not the most bioavailable form to take.

I found I did best on vitamin D 3 supplements made from olive oil.  It's gluten free.  Perhaps you would do better with this one.  

https://www.naturewise.com/products/vitamin-d3-5000-iu-supplements

Hope this helps!

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I've been taking them for such a long time. If I was allergic, I would have had a reaction from the start, and I did not, since I did an allergy panel a while back, and I had no allergy to sheep, also no fish or yeast allergy. It was a 255 allergy panel and the only allergy I have is to dust.

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Weird thing happened last night, that I forgot to ask here. Could there be small traces of gluten in my vitamin D supplement that I only now respond to it?

Cause last night I got those rashes on my chest, I think some of them where blisters, at least one of it was, and when I scratched it, it imediably start bleeding a little, and now they have this brownish look and are fading away. They are rather small, but from what I read, it might be dermatitis herpetiformis, but it's weird since it never happened on my chest or anywhere else.

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I know it's not ok to post so many one after another, but I can't edit the comment again. I wanted to add the list of the ingredients inside my vitamin D supplement:

Isomalt, microcrystalline cellulose, talcum, colecalciferol, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, (another ingredient similar to hydroxypropyl, but I can't find anything about it "hydropropyl" celulose), medium chain triglycerides, and magnesium stearate.

I also, for some reason knew it said it does not contain gluten, but now that I keep searching about it, it doesn't state it's gluten free.

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Sorry, but that's not how allergic reactions work.  That's not how hypersensitivity reactions work.

You have to have a sensitizing dose before you have an allergic reaction.  Prior to the sensitizing doses and the big allergic reaction, your body reacts stronger and more aggressively to the antigen.  But there's a tipping point, that sensitizing dose, and after that sensitizing dose every time the antigen is presented a big allergic reaction will happen.  

Read more here......

https://www.desentum.fi/how-allergies-work/allergic-sensitization

And here....

https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-is-sensitization-82988

P.S.  Yes, hives now.  Sounds like you're awful close to that sensitizing dose, if you're not there already...  

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholecalciferol

"It is produced by the ultraviolet irradiation of 7-dehydrocholesterol extracted from lanolin found in sheep's wool."

Congratulations!  Seems you probably have a wool/lanolin allergy now.  

Not every reaction is caused by gluten.

 

Edited by knitty kitty
Add more information

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In the last days of me using the vitamin D, I developed weak muscles, some weak tremor in my mouth, and hands, weakness in legs and joints, fast breathing, and the most prominent, those dizzines that sometimes are like a mild headache, also hard to think and focus. Not all at once. Want to let you know I used the same vitamin D, two years ago. But I will not deny that that's not a possibility.

Now that I think of, I stopped using the multivitamins I had taken for over a month. Could for some reason, Vitamin D exacerbate some kind of deficiency?

P.S. Would like to thank everyone here that has answered me. It's frustrating to try and figure this out alone. I appreciate everyone for helping me out.

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Furguston,

All those symptoms you listed are symptoms of high histamine levels. 

Mast cells release their histamine when told to do so by T cells that have found an antigen.  Calcium ions inside the mast cell relay the degranulation orders from the T cells on the outside of the mast cell to the histamine storage tank within the mast cell.  When the histamine tank empties, those calcium ion messengers get flushed out, too.  Then the calcium has to be pumped back inside the cell by transporters that use energy provided by thiamine.  Really a fascinating set up.  

I find it interesting that those high histamine level symptoms are similar to thiamine deficiency symptoms.  But it does takes a lot of energy for the calcium transporters to pump all those calcium ions back into the mast cell.  They use the energy provided by thiamine, so a thiamine deficiency could have an impact.  So cool how everything is so connected.

Vitamin D usually calms down the mast cells so they don't fire off so much histamine in that trigger happy way.  But if your lanolin-containing vitamin D is the trigger, it ends up being a vicious circle. Sort of explains the elevated calcium blood levels though.    

Curiouser and curiouser....I love a good mystery, don't you?  

Are you keeping a food/mood/poo'd journal? Are you still eating a lot of carbohydrates?  Have you thought about following the Low Histamine Diet?  Or the Autoimmune Paleo Protocol diet?  I followed the AIP diet and only chose foods that were low histamine.  And I took that olive oil based Vitamin D supplement and methylated forms of the B vitamins, Vitamin C and magnesium.  And my high histamine levels came down.  Oh, and I gave up those gluten free facsimile foods.  Now those are really high histamine with all those chemical additives and microbial transglutaminase.  That's a BIG histamine releaser there!  It acts the same as tissue transglutaminase the body makes itself, causing inflammation.  And I took high dose thiamine (300mg a day) to correct the deficiency, which is a whole 'nother story.

Well, hope you think about all your options.  I'm not a doctor.  I'm a microbiologist.  And I hope this helps!  

 

 

 

 

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No, I don't have elevated blood calcium, they are just near the top. Also, my blood test for calcium came back, they look good, not over the top, still have to wait for PTH and blood phosphorus to come back, but now I doubt it's something wrong with them.

I'd rather think I might have a B deficiency, since I stopped taking them a while back from my vitamin complex, I only tested the big B Complex 100.

For mast cells, I mean I ate spinach, had nothing, it did me good, ate beans, had no problem. Not going to deny the mast cells involvement, since I suffer from allergies, and sometimes it looks like my allergy medication is useless in some mornings, I start to sneeze or I get itchy nose, and then all good, but this might just be because I got a bad reaction to dust. When I did a skin test for allergies some years back, no other allergens reacted besides the dust ones (I'm allergic to both types of dusts). She also said she never seen such a fast and big reaction. My skin started to get red and swell around the prick test zone in a couple of minutes.

I should start a food log, to see if foods are some kind of trigger.

P.S. Any idea what blood tests to do and what foods to eat before the blood tests, to see if it's a mast cell activation problem?

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Question about thiamine deficiency, could it make you more agitated once you introduce it back? This morning I took just a small part from the B Complex 100, around 5%, and now I start to feel a little agitated, a pressure in the back of the head, just where the head and spine connect, sometimes it feels like a headache. I also experienced some nausea after a while, when I took it.

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This is indeed weird, since I did start to feel better, I'm not that cranky, and I can arrange my thoughts better, the headache is gone, but I do feel that this won't last long since if there is a deficiency, only time will heal it.

I wonder, after how many days, should I go and do a thiamine blood test. I don't want to start a thiamine supplement without having a clear picture. I want to be sure and have it on paper to show my doctor if he asks.

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