How Can I Tell?

[bartfull]

OK, so I know I can't have gluten. Well, I THINK gluten is probably a problem. Mom was a diagnosed Celiac, so odds are I am too. The trouble is, other than insomnia and brain fog, the only symptom I have is psoriasis.

I have discovered that corn is the big enemy of my psoriasis. I'm not sure if gluten bothers it too, but since I have been both gluten and corn free, I sleep at night, my head is clear (maybe BECAUSE I sleep at night?) and the psoriasis has cleared up.

I've been sticking to plain grilled or roasted meats, brown rice, and fresh veggies. Now that I'm feeling so much better I am ready to try adding other foods like soy, nightshades, and I'm even thinking about trying gluten too, to see if it's JUST the corn that bothers me.

But being I am asymptomatic for the most part, how in the world will I be able to tell if soy, for example, gives me problems? I don't have insurance, and to be honest, even if I did, I live in an area where there is NO good medical care unless I drive five hundred miles. So I don't have the time or the money to be tested.

How will I be able to tell?

[Marilyn R]

Hi Bart,

You're feeling good enough to want to flirt with disaster, that's a good sign!

I'd go with reintroducing nightshades. That adds so many foods for you.

After everything I've read about soy, I'm pretty much in the camp that I'll never indulge in soy again unless it is fermented, and even then it doesn't really appeal to me because the substitutes for soy haven't been unappealing after some tinkering with them.

As for gluten, Egads, what are you thinking? Don't do it! You have an autoimmune disorder and 1st degree relative with it and your insomnia and brain fog have improved! Why go back there? (To the badlands.)

I'd reintroduce first nightshades, second soy, third corn. If you get through all that without enduring psoriasis, brainfog or insomnia, then try gluten.

[bartfull]

Hi Bart,

You're feeling good enough to want to flirt with disaster, that's a good sign!

I'd go with reintroducing nightshades. That adds so many foods for you.

After everything I've read about soy, I'm pretty much in the camp that I'll never indulge in soy again unless it is fermented, and even then it doesn't really appeal to me because the substitutes for soy haven't been unappealing after some tinkering with them.

As for gluten, Egads, what are you thinking? Don't do it! You have an autoimmune disorder and 1st degree relative with it and your insomnia and brain fog have improved! Why go back there? (To the badlands.)

The thing is, I KNOW I can't have corn. I was eating just whole foods when I first started and the psoriasis cleared up completely. Then I made some gluten free cornbread, and the psoriasis came back with a vengence. I got into something with corn one other time and it made the psoriasis flare.

With no insurance, there's no way I can get tested for any intolerences, and with no other symptoms, I can't tell if I'm doing any damage to my body. I'm thinking that corn really MIGHT be the only thing that bothers me, but with no symptoms, I just can't tell.

I know that people say that after you have been on the diet for a while you become even more sensitive, so I'm almost hoping I can get some digestive symptoms so at least I'll know for sure when I have gotten into something I'm intolerent to.

I'd reintroduce first nightshades, second soy, third corn. If you get through all that without enduring psoriasis, brainfog or insomnia, then try gluten.

[Marilyn R]

I wish you good luck. Corn in the 4th thing I eliminated, and I haven't been brave enough to reintroduce it yet. It's a scary crop lol. (I can say that, I'm a farmer's daughter.)

[mushroom]

I wish you good luck. Corn in the 4th thing I eliminated, and I haven't been brave enough to reintroduce it yet. It's a scary crop lol. (I can say that, I'm a farmer's daughter.)

Yes, corn and soy are both very scary crops for me (along with feedlot beef ). And I'm a farmer's daughter too - grass-grazed sheep, though

If you are going to start adding things back in, do it slooowly, one thing at a time for at least a week. Since you seem so ambivalent about gluten, I think I would do that first. If you are intolerant it will probably give you the biggest, quickest kick.

[Marilyn R]

Yes, corn and soy are both very scary crops for me (along with feedlot beef ). And I'm a farmer's daughter too - grass-grazed sheep, though

If you are going to start adding things back in, do it slooowly, one thing at a time for at least a week. Since you seem so ambivalent about gluten, I think I would do that first. If you are intolerant it will probably give you the biggest, quickest kick.

Good point Mushroom. Something else to think about is CC from wheat with corn products. (Corn tortillias, corn flour, grits, etc.) They're all made on shared manufacuting lines from what I've seen in the grocery stores in my small town. Maybe there are more options in big city groceries.

[bartfull]

Speaking of big city groceries, I went to Rapid City (over 50 miles from here) last night and shopped at Safeway. I bought a lot of meats, some white cheddar (would you believe, all I can get in my town is that yucky orange-dyed stuff!), I found Kettle Brand chips at a much lower price than here in town at the healthfood store, which is the only place that carries them, and I bought some ice cream with no corn or gluten. In my town, the only gluten-free/CF ice cream is Breyer's Vanilla, which costs $7.95 for the 1.75 quart size (!!!) I'm so happy I will have something decent to eat for the next month.

Yeah, I think I'll try the gluten first. Because I know for certain that I can't have corn, I'm going to make pie crust. I can make a pork pie with it, and that'll give me three day's worth. That should be enough to tell, right? But my question is, what if I get no symptoms, but am still doing damage to my villi?

[love2travel]

Speaking of big city groceries, I went to Rapid City (over 50 miles from here) last night and shopped at Safeway. I bought a lot of meats, some white cheddar (would you believe, all I can get in my town is that yucky orange-dyed stuff!), I found Kettle Brand chips at a much lower price than here in town at the healthfood store, which is the only place that carries them, and I bought some ice cream with no corn or gluten. In my town, the only gluten-free/CF ice cream is Breyer's Vanilla, which costs $7.95 for the 1.75 quart size (!!!) I'm so happy I will have something decent to eat for the next month.

Yeah, I think I'll try the gluten first. Because I know for certain that I can't have corn, I'm going to make pie crust. I can make a pork pie with it, and that'll give me three day's worth. That should be enough to tell, right? But my question is, what if I get no symptoms, but am still doing damage to my villi?

Glad you had an awesome stock-up party!

When I was diagnosed I was asymptomatic (diagnosed as my sister was gluten intolerant so I requested testing) but my poor little villi were all flattened. But the good news is after being gluten-free for five months I had bloodwork again to see where I am at. My number when diagnosed was 71; now it is 3.8 (anything under 7.0 is considered negative). So, your little villli will be very happy when you go gluten free!

[Marilyn R]

Speaking of big city groceries, I went to Rapid City (over 50 miles from here) last night and shopped at Safeway. I bought a lot of meats, some white cheddar (would you believe, all I can get in my town is that yucky orange-dyed stuff!), I found Kettle Brand chips at a much lower price than here in town at the healthfood store, which is the only place that carries them, and I bought some ice cream with no corn or gluten. In my town, the only gluten-free/CF ice cream is Breyer's Vanilla, which costs $7.95 for the 1.75 quart size (!!!) I'm so happy I will have something decent to eat for the next month.

Yeah, I think I'll try the gluten first. Because I know for certain that I can't have corn, I'm going to make pie crust. I can make a pork pie with it, and that'll give me three day's worth. That should be enough to tell, right? But my question is, what if I get no symptoms, but am still doing damage to my villi?

If you have celiac disease, you will set yourself back and damage your villi. If you don't have celiac disease, as Love mentioned, you may have no notable symptoms. It's a mystery. Let us know how it goes.

What is pork pie? I'm curious because I've never heard of it and because that's what you're choosing for your gluten challenge. (My choice would be a strawberry cream cheese croissant at a french bakery, but I can't go there, even without a diagnosis.

Glad you got some good eats, let us know how it turns out.

[mushroom]

Good point Mushroom. Something else to think about is CC from wheat with corn products. (Corn tortillias, corn flour, grits, etc.) They're all made on shared manufacuting lines from what I've seen in the grocery stores in my small town. Maybe there are more options in big city groceries.

You know, Marilyn, that is what muddied the waters for me for so long. I first started having problems when I was introduced to Mexican restaurants, so I was pretty sure it was the corn. But in those places you get lots of corn and lots of wheat and sometimes the two together I reached the point where I always ordered prawns if forced to go to a Mexican restaurant. But then I had a food scratch test that showed positive for corn and soy, (but not wheat - haha, that's how little I knew) I didn't think anything about wheat. And I would go out and eat bread and potato chips and still have problems (of course I was not label reading at that point - one does go through degrees of food sophistication ) Of course I later found out I couldn't handle wheat, corn, soy or potatoes No wonder I used to have problems with snack food!!

[bartfull]

Marilyn, pork pie is a French Canadian dish. You cook your ground pork in a frying pan until it is ALMOST done. Then you drain it and add a bit of ground clove and some allspice, and some black pepper. I usually make a small pan of mashed potatoes and stir in a heaping tablespoon - it just helps hold things together. Put it in a pie crust that you have poked a few holes in with a fork. Then put a top crust on and slice some vents in it. Cook it at about 425* for an hour and twenty minutes.

I've been told it's an acquired taste, but I loved it the first time I tasted it. It is usually served around the holidays, often for breakfast. I could eat it any time of the day night or year. Have a slice of sharp cheddar on the side and you have a bit of culinary heaven!

[love2travel]

Marilyn, pork pie is a French Canadian dish. You cook your ground pork in a frying pan until it is ALMOST done. Then you drain it and add a bit of ground clove and some allspice, and some black pepper. I usually make a small pan of mashed potatoes and stir in a heaping tablespoon - it just helps hold things together. Put it in a pie crust that you have poked a few holes in with a fork. Then put a top crust on and slice some vents in it. Cook it at about 425* for an hour and twenty minutes.

I've been told it's an acquired taste, but I loved it the first time I tasted it. It is usually served around the holidays, often for breakfast. I could eat it any time of the day night or year. Have a slice of sharp cheddar on the side and you have a bit of culinary heaven!

This is called Tourtiere and I love it! I add a bit of freshly-grated nutmeg instead of cloves but that is just a personal taste preference.

[Marilyn R]

You know, Marilyn, that is what muddied the waters for me for so long. I first started having problems when I was introduced to Mexican restaurants, so I was pretty sure it was the corn. But in those places you get lots of corn and lots of wheat and sometimes the two together I reached the point where I always ordered prawns if forced to go to a Mexican restaurant. But then I had a food scratch test that showed positive for corn and soy, (but not wheat - haha, that's how little I knew) I didn't think anything about wheat. And I would go out and eat bread and potato chips and still have problems (of course I was not label reading at that point - one does go through degrees of food sophistication ) Of course I later found out I couldn't handle wheat, corn, soy or potatoes No wonder I used to have problems with snack food!!

Thanks, Mushroom, you are a well respected member on the forum. Do you still recommend she challenge gluten before the other avoided foods? I'm just curious.

[mushroom]

Well, the reason I suggested getting gluten out of the way first is that I have a sneaking suspicion that the reaction will be pretty clear cut and remove the gluten doubt right away. Then the other things can be tested. Bartfull does seem to doubt the gluten connection despite the family history and if the brain fog returns immediately that doubting should vanish. Gluten is such a biggie and such an important one to reject if it bothers you. That was my thinking. It should not be one about which you have ambivalence

[bartfull]

I think it's probably just wishful thinking. The corn is a much bigger problem because none of the big companies care about corn the way some of them now care about gluten. So they don't even list all of the things that might be made with corn. For example, many frozen fruits and vegetables are dusted with corn starch to keep them from clumping together when frozen. Baby carrots in the bag are dusted with cornstarch. Most ice creams are sweetened with that damnable high fructose corn syrup. All of the good gluten free breads have cornstarch. It's just everywhere.

I would much rather have to give up gluten than corn, but seeing I already know I can't have corn, I was just HOPING maybe that was my only problem. I'll find out soon though, as soon as I build up my courage. And I really and truly DO hope that if gluten is a problem for me, that I have definite digestive symptoms. I'd rather be sick for a few days than to not get sick but still continue doing damage to my body.

I think I'm going to have to wait a month or so to do my experimenting. Right now, things are busy in my shp so I'm open seven days a week. Come October, I'll start taking Sundays off again, so I can eat some gluten on a Saturday afternoon, then see what happens...

[Marilyn R]

Well, the reason I suggested getting gluten out of the way first is that I have a sneaking suspicion that the reaction will be pretty clear cut and remove the gluten doubt right away. Then the other things can be tested. Bartfull does seem to doubt the gluten connection despite the family history and if the brain fog returns immediately that doubting should vanish. Gluten is such a biggie and such an important one to reject if it bothers you. That was my thinking. It should not be one about which you have ambivalence

Ok. I appreciate your posts (always) and slso appreciate the logical, succinct answer to my question. I understand now.

[Marilyn R]

I think it's probably just wishful thinking. The corn is a much bigger problem because none of the big companies care about corn the way some of them now care about gluten. So they don't even list all of the things that might be made with corn. For example, many frozen fruits and vegetables are dusted with corn starch to keep them from clumping together when frozen. Baby carrots in the bag are dusted with cornstarch. Most ice creams are sweetened with that damnable high fructose corn syrup. All of the good gluten free breads have cornstarch. It's just everywhere.

I would much rather have to give up gluten than corn, but seeing I already know I can't have corn, I was just HOPING maybe that was my only problem. I'll find out soon though, as soon as I build up my courage. And I really and truly DO hope that if gluten is a problem for me, that I have definite digestive symptoms. I'd rather be sick for a few days than to not get sick but still continue doing damage to my body.

I think I'm going to have to wait a month or so to do my experimenting. Right now, things are busy in my shp so I'm open seven days a week. Come October, I'll start taking Sundays off again, so I can eat some gluten on a Saturday afternoon, then see what happens...

Corn is a biggy, I get ticked off at the grocery when I'm staring at those labels and see high fructose corn syrup and corn starch. It's even more of a pia when you look at ingredients for health & beauty products. Arrggh! Glad your store is busy, let us know how your challenge goes, wish you well...