Jump to content
  • Sign Up
4 4
plumbago

Diagnosed with sleep apnea

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Hi Everyone,

I was recently diagnosed with sleep apnea. Not mild sleep apnea, mind you, but severe sleep apnea. I was floored, stunned, dismayed, shocked, resistant, the whole kit n caboodle. I just couldn't get over it. But whatever, apparently I have it, and I'm now on a cpap, or to be technical, an apap (automatic positive air pressure). Just wanted to open this up to others to exchange thoughts and ideas.

I don't really think it has anything to do with celiac disease or that celiac disease has anything to do with it. One of my parents was dx'ed with sleep apnea (central and obstructive), I tend to think for me, the pathophysiology is anatomical/structural. I'm told it's more obstructive, but there are some central apneas in there as well (I'm still waiting on the full report). This is a bit of unchartered territory for me.

I've been on the machine for about 4 days, and all I can say is that I feel...different. Different because, yes, I suppose I'm more alert during the day but the test will come during the weekends when there's less to be alert for, and whether or not I fall into my postprandial slumber. Different also because it's taking some getting used to sleeping with an elephant trunk attached to my face.

Reading and researching is very important to me, so I've done some online reading and just received a text book by a doctor all on sleep apnea. Technical and tough reading - will take me a long time to get through five pages. But maybe it'll come in handy occasionally. There's not a lot of material out there in between a very basic level and a very technical level.

Plumbago

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sorry that you are struggling with sleep apnea.  My aunt must use a CPAP machine as well.  I can at least assure you that she was able to adjust and I am sure you will too.  The machine has helped her a lot.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plumbago, 

Found some stuff for you....

Easy stuff...

https://www.diabetesselfmanagement.com/blog/sleep-apnea-increases-type-2-diabetes-risk/

https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/vitamin-d-status-linked-with-severity-of-obstructive-sleep-apnea-in-adults/

Science-y versions...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3449487/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27998376

https://www.lifeextension.com/Protocols/Respiratory/Sleep-Apnea/Page-10

Somewhere in between....

http://info.spectracell.com/bid/92959/Sleep-Apnea-and-the-Correlation-with-Nutrients-and-Minerals

https://nestednaturals.com/blog/5-ways-to-help-reduce-sleep-apnea-symptoms/

My sleep apnea was at its worse when my vitamin D level was at its lowest (severe deficiency 6).  My sleep apnea improved and disappeared as my vitamin D level rose.  I keep my vitamin D level above 78 nmols.  The current standards of 35 - 45 nmols is too low!  Researchers are figuring that out just now.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18348447

Low vitamin D is also connected to insulin resistance and diabetes (which are connected to sleep apnea). And we're going in circles....

http://www.diabetesforecast.org/2011/dec/the-role-of-vitamin-d-in-type-2-diabetes.html

Please get your vitamin D level checked and get it above 75!  It's such a simple way to improve your health (though unprofitable for doctors and big pharma).  I can't emphasize what a difference that one vitamin has made in my life!  

Please check your Vitamin D level!!!

Knitty Kitty

😿

On 10/30/2018 at 6:16 PM, plumbago said:

Hi Everyone,

I was recently diagnosed with sleep apnea. Not mild sleep apnea, mind you, but severe sleep apnea. I was floored, stunned, dismayed, shocked, resistant, the whole kit n caboodle. I just couldn't get over it. But whatever, apparently I have it, and I'm now on a cpap, or to be technical, an apap (automatic positive air pressure). Just wanted to open this up to others to exchange thoughts and ideas.

I don't really think it has anything to do with celiac disease or that celiac disease has anything to do with it. One of my parents was dx'ed with sleep apnea (central and obstructive), I tend to think for me, the pathophysiology is anatomical/structural. I'm told it's more obstructive, but there are some central apneas in there as well (I'm still waiting on the full report). This is a bit of unchartered territory for me.

I've been on the machine for about 4 days, and all I can say is that I feel...different. Different because, yes, I suppose I'm more alert during the day but the test will come during the weekends when there's less to be alert for, and whether or not I fall into my postprandial slumber. Different also because it's taking some getting used to sleeping with an elephant trunk attached to my face.

Reading and researching is very important to me, so I've done some online reading and just received a text book by a doctor all on sleep apnea. Technical and tough reading - will take me a long time to get through five pages. But maybe it'll come in handy occasionally. There's not a lot of material out there in between a very basic level and a very technical level.

Plumbago

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks you two. Those look like some good links, Kitty. Do you have sleep apnea?

I get my D levels taken yearly. Last year it was way up (for me) in the upper 70s, this year a bit lower in the 40s or 50s if I recall. I am trying to be better about remembering to take my weekly 50,000 IU of D3. I tend to think my apnea is structural/anatomical but we are possibly in the infant stages of understanding the condition. 

Plumbago

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I HAD sleep apnea.  I don't have problems with it anymore as long as my vitamin D is in the eighties at least.  When I first had problems with sleep apnea, my vitamin D was very low.  My old doctor prescribed synthetic Vitamin D 2  (big pharma's synthetic form that the body can't use well).  I had an aversion to those. Can't explain why, but I just dreaded swallowing those D2 pills.  I did some research and found D3 is the natural, bioavailable form and started taking them.  I had 10,000 IU capsules. I took them every day.  I took them with meals.  I took them between meals.  I craved them.  I ate them like m&m's.  It was really strange, but your body knows what it needs.  My level quickly got into the eighties.  I began sleeping better and losing weight without trying.  My type two diabetes was better.  But my old doctor seemed concerned my level was too high in the eighties and said to cut out the supplements.  I did and within a few months I started having sleep apnea problems again.  I was tired and bloated again and having more trouble keeping my diabetes in range.  My vitamin D level had dropped.  It was forty-two.  I resumed taking the D3 and did more research and found that higher vitamin D levels are better for you. 

1 hour ago, plumbago said:

 

Scientists have done tests on people who work outside and found their vitamin D levels are consistently higher than the thirty or forty at which most standards are set.  These standards were set as minimums for disease prevention back in the thirties (in the Depression era when people couldn't afford food) and forties (in the War Rationing era when food went to the troops and vitamins were included in soldier's mess kits).   

My New Doctor doesn't flinch when he sees my Vitamin D level is ninety or one hundred.  

My sleep apnea problems began and ended BEFORE my Celiac Disease diagnosis.  Vitamin D made the difference.  Getting my vitamin D levels up also alleviated my depression and brain fog so that I could pursue the other health problems I was having and come to the Celiac Disease diagnosis.  I'm no longer morbidly obese, I'm off all high blood pressure medications, I'm off all diabetic medications.  

If it hadn't been for the improvement with higher Vitamin D, I don't think I would have made it.  That one vitamin made such a difference it shouldn't be a surprise I'm such a zealot for higher Vitamin D levels now.

Please consider trying higher vitamin D levels under your doctor's care.  What have you got to lose?

2 hours ago, plumbago said:

Thanks you two. Those look like some good links, Kitty. Do you have sleep apnea?

I get my D levels taken yearly. Last year it was way up (for me) in the upper 70s, this year a bit lower in the 40s or 50s if I recall. I am trying to be better about remembering to take my weekly 50,000 IU of D3. I tend to think my apnea is structural/anatomical but we are possibly in the infant stages of understanding the condition. 

Plumbago

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

I HAD sleep apnea.  I don't have problems with it anymore as long as my vitamin D is in the eighties at least.  When I first had problems with sleep apnea, my vitamin D was very low.  My old doctor prescribed synthetic Vitamin D 2  (big pharma's synthetic form that the body can't use well).  I had an aversion to those. Can't explain why, but I just dreaded swallowing those D2 pills.  I did some research and found D3 is the natural, bioavailable form and started taking them.  I had 10,000 IU capsules. I took them every day.  I took them with meals.  I took them between meals.  I craved them.  I ate them like m&m's.  It was really strange, but your body knows what it needs.  My level quickly got into the eighties.  I began sleeping better and losing weight without trying.  My type two diabetes was better.  But my old doctor seemed concerned my level was too high in the eighties and said to cut out the supplements.  I did and within a few months I started having sleep apnea problems again.  I was tired and bloated again and having more trouble keeping my diabetes in range.  My vitamin D level had dropped.  It was forty-two.  I resumed taking the D3 and did more research and found that higher vitamin D levels are better for you. 

Scientists have done tests on people who work outside and found their vitamin D levels are consistently higher than the thirty or forty at which most standards are set.  These standards were set as minimums for disease prevention back in the thirties (in the Depression era when people couldn't afford food) and forties (in the War Rationing era when food went to the troops and vitamins were included in soldier's mess kits).   

My New Doctor doesn't flinch when he sees my Vitamin D level is ninety or one hundred.  

My sleep apnea problems began and ended BEFORE my Celiac Disease diagnosis.  Vitamin D made the difference.  Getting my vitamin D levels up also alleviated my depression and brain fog so that I could pursue the other health problems I was having and come to the Celiac Disease diagnosis.  I'm no longer morbidly obese, I'm off all high blood pressure medications, I'm off all diabetic medications.  

If it hadn't been for the improvement with higher Vitamin D, I don't think I would have made it.  That one vitamin made such a difference it shouldn't be a surprise I'm such a zealot for higher Vitamin D levels now.

Please consider trying higher vitamin D levels under your doctor's care.  What have you got to lose?

 

Thanks. You mentioned you were morbidly obese. Did your D levels improve before the weight loss? Is that how you know it was the D that did it? I ask because it’s often difficult to figure things out when two or more factors are changed at the same time. From my initial reading, I see that being overweight is perhaps the strongest risk factor for sleep apnea.

Plumbago

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am going to add my own two cents.

I take no vitamins.  None.  My last endoscopy revealed healed villi, so I am able to absorb nutrients from foods now.  I do eat a very good healthy diet that works for me.  

I have family members who have sleep apnea and they are overweight and have large necks.  They also are sedentary with office jobs which might impact their vitamin D process.  

Kitty mentioned this study, but it concluded that there was NO correlation between low Vitamin D, weight and sleep apnea.  It was a tiny study.  Less than 200 men.  What they found was that if you have sleep apnea, maybe you should be screened for vitamin D.  They caught many with low vitamin D levels (less than 20 no/ml) just by chance when testing out their hypothesis.  There is no evidence that taking Vitamin D can help with sleep apnea in this study.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27998376

“We found no association between vitamin D levels and the apnea-hypopnea index or body mass index.”

What I am trying to point out is that there is no known reason for sleep apnea.  Doctors do know that having it seems to cause long-term harm to your health (like falling asleep while sitting in a chair during dinner is not normal and you might fall asleep while driving a car).    They speculate that weight is the biggest association just like it is for diabetes TD2.  But it is just an association.  Like I have TD2 and I have never been overweight in my life.  Could it be genes, years of undiagnosed celiac disease, the old standard American diet full of carbs....who knows?)  

Best to talk to your doctor before taking any supplements and find out if you really need them.   I am glad that Kitty was able to resolve her sleep apnea with Vitamin D but there is not much evidence to actually support her theory.  Better to lose weight (diet and exercise) and get into the normal BMI range (exception body builders/athletes).   Get into the sun for brief periods just like my dogs would do every single day.  Use that CPAP machine!  You will feel much better!  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, plumbago said:

Thanks. You mentioned you were morbidly obese. Did your D levels improve before the weight loss? Is that how you know it was the D that did it? I ask because it’s often difficult to figure things out when two or more factors are changed at the same time. From my initial reading, I see that being overweight is perhaps the strongest risk factor for sleep apnea.

Plumbago

 

 

Plumbago, 

The only thing that changed was my Vitamin D levels.  My Vitamin D levels improved through supplementation before the weight loss.  My old doctor only tested my Vitamin D levels because my insurance would cover it.  And probably to shut me up.  He refused to test for any other vitamin deficiencies because he "couldn't make any money off prescribing vitamins".  He ignored my other health concerns.  He seemingly preferred to prescribe medications (and get those kickbacks from big pharma) to treat the symptoms of health problems rather than find the cause of my deteriorating health.  I got a new doctor.

This study reviews lots of previous studies which looked at the correlation between sleep apnea, obesity, and low vitamin D.  

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6118887/

It concludes...

"The association between vitamin D deficiency and OSAS is mediated by complex pathogenetic mechanisms and affected by multiple confounding factors. The fact that vitamin D deficiency appears to be common among OSAS patients suggests that screening should be performed when clinically indicated."

They found a correlation between these things, but it's one of those "which came first, the chicken or the egg?"  Like you say, it's hard to definitively say how all the different factors are interrelated, but there is something there.  Mea culpa for previously posting a small study.  

Another example of the importance of Vitamin D in MY life...

As a child, I lived on an island in the Pacific.  I was exposed to plenty of sunshine.  I was active outside and tan and slim.  I was not sedentary.  I ate a healthy diet.  My family moved to a northern latitude State.  I was still active outside.  I was not sedentary.   I still ate a healthy diet.  My tan faded.  I began gaining weight and having gastrointestinal symptoms.  I began snoring.  I ate the same.  I played outdoors the same.  The only difference was that the amount of sunshine available changed.  The amount of Vitamin D changed.  

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/time-for-more-vitamin-d

Latitude and vitamin D production in the skin

1012

"Except during the summer months, the skin makes little if any vitamin D from the sun at latitudes above 37 degrees north (in the United States, the shaded region in the map) or below 37 degrees south of the equator. People who live in these areas are at relatively greater risk for vitamin D deficiency."

England and Canada have national health care policies of supplementing Vitamin D.  

Not all of us are lucky enough to live in abundant sunshine areas forever, so supplementing Vitamin D is important.  Once one is deficient it is very difficult to consume enough food to correct the deficiency. Supplementation is necessary.

This is what happened to me in my life, my personal experience.  I'm convinced improved Vitamin D levels made an impact on my health.  I've lived it.  I've experienced the difference between deficiency and sufficiency.  I want to share what I've learned to help others, to make all those years I suffered worthwhile. 

😿

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is great that we have the opportunity to agree or disagree on treatments based on our personal experiences and our own research.  Readers can determine (with their doctor’s input) what the best treatment for them.  😊

Here are a few current articles about vitamin D.  Surprisingly, where you live no no longer to impact your ability to make vitamin D.  That was news to me!  

https://www.aafp.org/afp/2018/0215/p226.html

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-HealthProfessional/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"What I am trying to point out is that there is no known reason for sleep apnea."

Are we sure about that? There are some well-established risk factors, such as overweight.

And according to the Mayo Clinic, the following are also risk factors:
    Neck circumference.
    A narrowed airway.     Being male.
    Being older.
    Family history.
    Use of alcohol, sedatives or tranquilizers.
    Smoking.
    Nasal congestion.

Blah blah blah. So we know all this, not sure I'm advancing any reasonable discussion here. 

"Best to talk to your doctor before taking any supplements and find out if you really need them."

Yes, I have been taking D3 for a while, and as stated above, am currently on 50,000 IU and yes, I have a doctor who knows about this. My BMI varies between 20 and 21. I have additional thoughts on my weight as it may relate to sleep apnea and other diseases that come with aging, but I will refrain from going into more detail for the time being. As for doctors, honestly having a dx of sleep apnea is a major thing in my life, and as I survey the support out there for me in terms of medical personnel, I am underwhelmed. Who is overseeing this? My PCP? My pulmonologist? The NP at my pulmonologist? The ENT I'm going to see? Who's got the whole picture? I'm in the field, I know how it is, that was a rhetorical question. I just have not hit the jackpot (yet - perhaps) in terms of a well oiled medical machine. It's all higgledy piggledy, ad hoc, fragmented, and so on. Our greatest hits. But still, I know I have it very good.

To get back to the Vitamin D, again, my levels are in the 40s this year, I believe. I toy with the notion of jacking it up, as it was (for me) last year - in the 70s. It's worth mentioning to my doctor, I think.

Yes, I am indeed using that cpap machine, but as I like to say, it’s not unlike wearing an elephant trunk to bed. And as for how it makes me feel - see my first post! All I can say, still, is - it's....different.

Thanks for responding.

Plumbago

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This article Cycling Lady posted states

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-HealthProfessional/

"Perhaps surprisingly, geographic latitude does not consistently predict average serum 25(OH)D levels in a population. Ample opportunities exist to form vitamin D (and store it in the liver and fat) from exposure to sunlight during the spring, summer, and fall months even in the far north latitudes [1]."

It's talking about Average Serum 25(OH)D levels in a Population.  

Averages are highs and lows and everything in between to find the average.

I'm talking about Individuals with increased metabolic needs.  

The other article 

https://www.aafp.org/afp/2018/0215/p226.html#afp20180215p226-b3

is discussing Vitamin D status in older individuals over 70,  in primary care facilities, a.k.a. old folks homes.  

Older people in nursing homes don't have the same needs as younger people with higher metabolic needs.

Perhaps this article has a more accurate depiction of Vitamin D.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3897598/#!po=27.7143

 The section entitled "Factors that Influence Cutaneous Vitamin D3Synthesis"  discusses various ways vitamin D production is influenced by the latitude and other environmental factors.  

"People who live farther North and South often cannot make any vitamin D3 in their skin for up to 6 mo of the year.41"

 

Even in latitudes with plenty of sunshine.....

"In the early morning and late afternoon the zenith angle of the sun is also more oblique similar to winter sunlight and as a result very little if any vitamin D3 can be produced in the skin before 10 a.m. and after 3 p.m. even in the summer time (Figs. 23 and and2525).44"

And...

"People who live in the far Northern and Southern hemispheres had apparently appreciated this fact and were able to satisfy their vitamin D requirement by eating vitamin D rich foods including oily fish, seal blubber, polar bear liver and whale blubber and liver all of which contain large amounts of vitamin D3.42,43

 

So where you live may not impact your ability to make Vitamin D, but there may be a reduced opportunity for Vitamin D production,  for which you can compensate with diet.  

Yes, it is wonderful we can agree or disagree, and make decisions based on our own research.  And advice from medical professionals is always important.

Knitty Kitty

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plumbago, 

This article I referenced above

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3897598/#!po=40.2857

also has guidelines for treating insufficiency or deficiency.  It also discusses toxicity which is rare.  (One would have to take extremely high doses of supplements for a very long time.  If it does get too high, stop taking supplements.  It will go down.  Simple.)

Did you feel any better last year when your vitamin D level was 70nmols?   Did you experience any health changes as your level came down?  Other than the cpap necessity?   

I've been keeping my Vitamin D level up for almost nine years now.  (Of course I don't eat vitamin D capsules like m&m's anymore.  That was only until my body's stores were replenished.)  I've had no toxicity problems, no health problems due to high Vitamin D.  Occasionally I will purposefully stop supplementing, and I can tell the difference as my level drops. 

I encourage you to try increasing your vitamin D level.  It's a simple enough step to at least see if you can improve your health.  Please do it under medical supervision. Discuss your decision with your doctor so he can monitor your Vitamin D level closely.

Hmmm, guinea pig or elephant?😸

Knitty Kitty

 

34 minutes ago, plumbago said:

"What I am trying to point out is that there is no known reason for sleep apnea."

Are we sure about that? There are some well-established risk factors, such as overweight.

And according to the Mayo Clinic, the following are also risk factors:
    Neck circumference.
    A narrowed airway.     Being male.
    Being older.
    Family history.
    Use of alcohol, sedatives or tranquilizers.
    Smoking.
    Nasal congestion.

Blah blah blah. So we know all this, not sure I'm advancing any reasonable discussion here. 

"Best to talk to your doctor before taking any supplements and find out if you really need them."

Yes, I have been taking D3 for a while, and as stated above, am currently on 50,000 IU and yes, I have a doctor who knows about this. My BMI varies between 20 and 21. I have additional thoughts on my weight as it may relate to sleep apnea and other diseases that come with aging, but I will refrain from going into more detail for the time being. As for doctors, honestly having a dx of sleep apnea is a major thing in my life, and as I survey the support out there for me in terms of medical personnel, I am underwhelmed. Who is overseeing this? My PCP? My pulmonologist? The NP at my pulmonologist? The ENT I'm going to see? Who's got the whole picture? I'm in the field, I know how it is, that was a rhetorical question. I just have not hit the jackpot (yet - perhaps) in terms of a well oiled medical machine. It's all higgledy piggledy, ad hoc, fragmented, and so on. Our greatest hits. But still, I know I have it very good.

To get back to the Vitamin D, again, my levels are in the 40s this year, I believe. I toy with the notion of jacking it up, as it was (for me) last year - in the 70s. It's worth mentioning to my doctor, I think.

Yes, I am indeed using that cpap machine, but as I like to say, it’s not unlike wearing an elephant trunk to bed. And as for how it makes me feel - see my first post! All I can say, still, is - it's....different.

Thanks for responding.

Plumbago

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plumbago, Cyclinglady and Knitty Kitty,

I have had a busy week on the homestead and some internet issues but I wanted to chime in on this Vitamin D and or sleep Apnea problem now that I have a little more time and my internet is back up and working.

Let me first say  ..... I personally don't have Sleep Apnea my problem(s) was more CFS related but if you have sleep/energy/fatigue issues it is 9 times out of 10 a Magnesium problem.

Magnesium drives the Kreb cycle and regulates the need for sleep because it provides enough energy to either calm the mind or agitate it (insomnia) when it (Magnesium) is missing in the equation.

George Eby has a wealth of information about it (Magnesium) and it's role in the sleep cycle.

Carolyn Dean wrote a book about it (Magnesium) called "The Magnesium Miracle".

Plumbago I will quote the latest research (less than 5 years old on the topic) meaning doctor's have not yet incorporated it into their clinical practice.

Magnesium is so important in the body it is used as co-factor to activation of Vitamin Din the body and probably why so large amount of Vitamin D is neeeded for Knitty Kitty to feel well.

see this new research about how Magnesium and a Vitamin D deficiency is connected/related entitled "Low magnesium levels make vitamin D ineffective and Up to 50 percent of US population is magnesium deficient." in summary form.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180226122548.htm

Here is the more technical scientific paper about how magnesium effects Vitamin D activation and function.

http://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2673882

When we get low in Magnesium the kreb's cycle is broken without which we can't make enough energy to properly regulate our sleep cycle.

I have used Magnesium in/with my friends to help their Sleep Apnea. . . at least those who will listen.

Most people don't believe (like in Knitty Kitty's example) Vitamins and Minerals (Magnesium) could help them soooooo much?

This same friend had a potassium deficient that the doctor's couldn't answer/fix because they didn't know Magnesium role in eletrolyte homeostasis.

See this research.

http://www.mgwater.com/schroll.shtml

Magnesium is a co-agent/co-factor in a Potassium deficiency.

they concluded quoting

Conclusion

The importance of magnesium for the electrolyte homeostasis can be summarized now:

  • Magnesium deficiency is always followed by a disturbed electrolyte homeostasis. it causes a lot of deficiency symptoms according to its many-fold relations in the organism and should be considered in many diseases and clinical situations.
  • Sufficient magnesium supply is important for maintaining the concentration gradients and the electric potential at the Cell and stabilizes electrolyte homeostasis.
  • Magnesium is able to restore the ionic and electric imbalance by reactivating the sodium/potassium pump and by reducing the calcium overload.
  • Magnesium is indispensable for potassium substitution and for compensation of a refractory potassium deficiency.

and this research on Magnesium and Potassium is many, many years old so I don't expect the doctor's to know yet about the recently discovered similar connection found on this year in 2018 about Magnesium also regulates  Vitamin D's function in the body.

the problem with Magnesium levels in general it is hard to determine (currently) whether one is low in it or not.

Only cause and effect of taking Magnesium much like  Knitty Kitty took Vitamin D and found a very favorable (but antedotal) effect.

see this abstract entitled "Magnesium Supplementation in Vitamin D Deficiency"  for a quick overview of this topic where they note this fact.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28471760

quoting

"To date, there is no simple and accurate laboratory test to determine the total body magnesium status in humans. Mg is essential in the metabolism of vitamin D, and taking large doses of vitamin D can induce severe depletion of Mg. Adequate magnesium supplementation should be considered as an important aspect of vitamin D therapy."

as they note without some magnesium in your body because Vitamin D uses Magnesium as co-factor taking Vitamin D can lower Magnesium levels thus explaining why high Vitamin D (supplementation) can help some people but not others.

the Vitamin D activation/function like Potassium levels is controlled by having some Magnesium to activate/control the process.

Once some one reaches a hypomagnesemia level it (Low magnesium) levels effect other body processes including,  charlie horses, fatigue and yes sleep cycles like OSAS as an extreme example of undiagnosed hypomagnesemia.

See this mescape overview of this "forgotten Cation" if you full access.

https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/2038394-overview

quoting the free view portion.

"Abnormalities of magnesium levels, such as hypomagnesemia, can result in disturbances in nearly every organ system and can cause potentially fatal complications (eg, ventricular arrhythmia, coronary artery vasospasm, sudden death). (See Pathophysiology.) Despite the well-recognized importance of magnesium, low and high levels have been documented in ill patients, [1] as a result of which, magnesium has occasionally been called the "forgotten cation." [2, 3]

Magnesium is the second-most abundant intracellular cation and, overall, the fourth-most abundant cation. [4] It plays a fundamental role in many functions of the cell, including energy transfer, storage, and use; protein, carbohydrate, and fat metabolism; maintenance of normal cell membrane function; and the regulation of parathyroid hormone (PTH) secretion"

also see this very exhaustive overview from the British Medical Journal (BMJ) of how being as they term it "Subclinically" low in Magnesium can make you sick

 
they call it a public health crisis to be "subclincially low in Magnesium" can you imagine how sick people would have to be clinically low in Magnesium and Knitty Kitty notes about her Low Vitamin D levels (25 0H) being normal "for healthy people">
 
As to your current problem of OSAS see this pyschology today article about the many ways Magnesium effects our healthy sleep patterns entitled.
 
 
And this more scientific technical one and low magnesium and insomnia entitled "The effect of magnesium supplementation on primary insomnia in elderly: A double-blind placebo-controlled clinical trial."
 
 
quoting their conclusion

CONCLUSION:

"Supplementation of magnesium appears to improve subjective measures of insomnia such as ISI score, sleep efficiency, sleep time and sleep onset latency, early morning awakening, and likewise, insomnia objective measures such as concentration of serum renin, melatonin, and serum cortisol, in elderly people."

But you say that is well and good but that is not OSAS (sleep apnea). . .and that is a subjective study and why that is true.

Lucky for us good researchers are at work trying to answer the questions you seek.

But dont' be surprised to see it take another 10 to 15 years for this new research to reach clinical outcomes/practice.

Sadly it takes a "generation" for this new research to be "Passed on down" to the next clinical practicionners . . and finally help patients still suffering unnessarily if this new research is to beeeeee believed.

this research is only about 17 or 18 months old soo it is really only a toddler in research years. .......... so more study will be don why people continue to suffer from OSAS (sleep apnea)

see this brand new research on sleep apnea and the role low levels' of magnesium plays  in it entitled "An Investigation of Serum Magnesium and Red Blood Cell Distribution Width Values in Patients with Obstructive Sleep Apnea Syndrome (OSAS).

https://www.mona.uwi.edu/fms/wimj/article/3685

And note it is note from a Western medicine journals because they are not doing pure research anymore but "physcian, nurse health studies " etc. way too much these day IE. medicine by statistic's .... trends, averages etc.

see this research on magnesium and migraines  and why/how (often) todays double blind medical studies are flawed entitled "Why all migraine patients should be treated with magnesium." and I think the point Knitty kitty was trying to make.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22426836

quoting

"Double-blind, placebo-controlled trials have produced mixed results, most likely because both magnesium deficient and non-deficient patients were included in these trials. This is akin to giving cyanocobalamine in a blinded fashion to a group of people with peripheral neuropathy without regard to their cyanocobalamine levels. Both oral and intravenous magnesium are widely available, extremely safe, very inexpensive and for patients who are magnesium deficient can be highly effective. Considering these features of magnesium, the fact that magnesium deficiency may be present in up to half of migraine patients, and that routine blood tests are not indicative of magnesium status, empiric treatment with at least oral magnesium is warranted in all migraine sufferers."

Now back to the new OSAS study done this year in circa 2017.

I wish I had the full study but this is from the abstract.

quoting their conclusion about OSAS studies and Magesium.

"Conclusion: We determined that serum magnesium levels decreased in the presence of OSAS and that this is related to the severity of OSAS. Similarly, we observed that RDW values increased in patients with OSAS and exhibited significant correlation with AHI. Also, RDW and Mg levels were found to be negatively correlated. To our knowledge, this is the first study in the literature that demonstrates the association between RDW and Mg levels in the same patient population."

Plumbago here is the abstract link again for easy reference.

https://www.mona.uwi.edu/fms/wimj/article/3685

I must stop for now ... but taking Magnesium Citrate 3/day (with meals) should really help your sleep quality, insomnia and sleep apnea problems (OSAS) etc.
 
Everybody I can get to try it (Magnesium) really swares by it.
 
Just ask Ennis_tx how much it helped him.  We both came at this conclusion by are own separate research but we both SWARE by it for good reasons.
 
Magnesium Citrate/Glycinate gave us back our lives!
 
Praise be too God!  I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advice.
 
Plumbago and others, Read all the links when you get a chance but scan this response for now to get you up to speed on the many benefits of Magnesium including as they are finding out now includes Vitamin D activation and even Sleep Apnea (OSAS) when our body reaches the critically low hypomagnesemia level for Magnesium not well tested for in today's current tests.  
 
But cause and effect with supplementation will/can confirm your extremely low Magnesium levels.
 
Again this is not medical advice but I have given friends Magnesium who were instructed by doctor's to use CPAPS for their sleep Apnea and feel so better now that they no longer use  or feel they need a CPAP to have normal sleep.
 
Once vivid dreams begin usually your  body is reacting to increased Magnesium levels in the body for most people who begin Magnesium Citrate supplementation with meals.

As always “Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things” this included.

2 Timothy 2:7

Posterboy by the Grace of God,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Posterboy said:

taking Vitamin D can lower Magnesium levels

The Psychology Today article you quote says exactly the opposite of that, if I am reading it correctly:

Vitamin D. Vitamin D may increase the amount of magnesium the body absorbs. This is more likely when taking high doses of Vitamin D.

Plumbago

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/3/2018 at 10:34 AM, plumbago said:

The Psychology Today article you quote says exactly the opposite of that, if I am reading it correctly:

Vitamin D. Vitamin D may increase the amount of magnesium the body absorbs. This is more likely when taking high doses of Vitamin D.

Plumbago

Plumbago,

If I have mispoken I apologize.

I was basing the increased/depletion use of Magnesium as a co-factor in the activation of Vitamin D.

It apparently only happens with the D3 (active calcitrol form) according to linus pauling institute.

we know about how Vitamin D and calcium interacts but we don't know as much about how Magnesium and Vitamin D interacts.

But we are learning if the latest research is to be believed . . ..maybe should also be aware of Magnesium status too when taking/supplementing with Vitamin D.

Here is what I based my statement on about how taking Vitamin D can lower Magnesium levels and would make sense if magnesium is a co-factor for Vitamin from the "Magnesium supplementation in Vitamin D deficiency" article linked below.

On 11/3/2018 at 10:34 AM, plumbago said:

taking Vitamin D can lower Magnesium levels

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28471760

quoting their conclusion.

CONCLUSIONS:

Vitamin D screening assay is readily available, but the reported lower limit of the normal range is totally inadequate for disease prevention. Based on the epidemiologic studies, ∼75% of all adults worldwide have serum 25(OH)D levels of <30 ng/mL. Because of the recent increase in global awareness, vitamin D supplementation has become a common practice, but Mg deficiency still remains unaddressed. Screening for chronic magnesium deficiency is difficult because a normal serum level may still be associated with moderate to severe deficiency. To date, there is no simple and accurate laboratory test to determine the total body magnesium status in humans. Mg is essential in the metabolism of vitamin D, and taking large doses of vitamin D can induce severe depletion of Mg. Adequate magnesium supplementation should be considered as an important aspect of vitamin D therapy."

this is because according to the http://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2673882 article published this year.

quoting

"Magnesium assists in the activation of vitamin D, which helps regulate calcium and phosphate homeostasis to influence the growth and maintenance of bones. All of the enzymes that metabolize vitamin D seem to require magnesium, which acts as a cofactor in the enzymatic reactions in the liver and kidneys."

and if you are severely deficient in Magnesium then extremely high doses of Vitamin D might be needed to overcome this limiting co-factor for Vitamin D activation from D2 to D3 (active form) if then and it explains why Knitty Kitty does better with D3 versus the more generic synthetic D2 version of Vitamin D.

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advice.

Generally boron actively regulates the Calcium/Magneium balance in the body.

I don't think this imbalance of Vitamin D/Magnesium is a problem for most people . . ..but it is something to be aware of you are supplementing with Vitamin D.....also be aware it could also make you low(er) in Magnesium.   Generally  this is not a problem unless you have impaired kidney function for most people.  .. but it is something to be aware of. . . .just because  it could happen. .... doesn't mean it will happen to you.

I think of Magnesium as the ""King Mineral" without the King on the throne the other electrolytes don't know where to stand and inbalances results with the other electroytes like sodium and calcium etc and homeostasis (proper balance) can't be reached. ...like with a potassium deficiency without a "little Magnesium" to help restore the proper balance in our cells and blood.

And why calcium should always be taking with Magnesium etc. and probably Vitamin D should be taken with Magnesium if this new research is too be believed too!

But I doubt doctor's will realize these newly discovered connections of the way Magnesium helps activate Vitamin D in the body for many, many more years.

I only know Magnesium Citrate helped me tremendously!!!!!

And I believe it will help you too.

Good luck on your continued journey.

Again this is not medical advice but I hope it is helpful.

As always “Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things” this included.

2 Timothy 2:7

Posterboy by the Grace of God,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plumbago and Knitty Kitty,

Here is the link to the full citation on " Role of Magnesium in Vitamin D Activation and Function" if you all want to read it in more detail.

http://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2673882

You can't always tell what is really happening in an abstract.

I hope it is helpful but as always it is not medical advice.

Posterboy,

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the enthusiasm for magnesium and D3. I guess in my case ya gotta dance with the one that brung ya. Meaning, I was hoping to talk about sleep apnea. But most who responded (or, more) touted the wonders of D3 and magnesium. And so I will deal with that. It’s worth researching, for sure. And I am seriously considering everything, but I do wonder - if it’s (curing sleep apnea) just a matter of supplementation, wouldn’t we have heard that by now? Meantime, I do hope to hear from  other forum participants who have the condition and are dealing with it. Thanks again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plumbago,

I get you a 100%, well 99% anyway.

I call it the lost "keys syndrome".

Whatever disease you are diagnosed with . . .you are married too!

Supplementation is hard for people to understand and do right.

As Knitty Kitty noted their are forms of Vitamin D that work better than others.

The same is so for Magnesium forms.

Take a Magnesium Oxide and you will call me a liar because your body does not absorb it well.

Take a Magnesium Glycinate and your body will well absorb it unless you have little to no stomach acid.

You can test this Magnesium theory easy enough.  I had severe Charlie horses that is no longer a problem after I started Magnesium Citrate supplementation.

Back to the easy Magnesium test.

Buy you some Epsom Salts and use them in your bath. 

Here is an article about it.

http://www.mgwater.com/transdermal.shtml

remember Medical doctor's are not studying Vitamins/Minerals.

I have written a posterboy blog post about this topic.

https://www.celiac.com/blogs/entry/2161-time-for-a-vitamin%C2%A0reformation-why-all-the-hate-for-vitamins-these-days/

but supplementation allows you to fight a "two front" war and the real disease will remain after you have finished your "cycle" of supplementation.

there is a "clinical delay" of approx. 17 years to incorporate new studies into old (ways of) thinking.

medicine's paradigm is to replace vitamins.

Vitamins are needed at a minimum amount without which we become sick?

the problem is the disease starts as "sublclincial" manifestation before the doctor "keys" symptom's can be identified properly.

If at any point in the decision treeee..... Vitamins/Minerals are not isolated as a cause then disease persists.

And you don't/can't find your keys where you don't look.. ...

Now you know where else/ what else to look for these "key" symptom's might else bee.

It is call a differential diagnosis and all good medicine practices allow for it aka the medical "Second Opinion".

I wrote a posterboy blog post about this oversight of vitamins in the decision process and why supplementation allows you remove a front in your sleep apnea war.

https://www.celiac.com/blogs/entry/2119-a-devastating-delay-celiac-pellagra-and-the-implementation-clinical-gap-in-recognizing-one-forover-the-other-which-twin-to-choosesave/

You must decide which twin you want to live .. ..supplementing with Vitamin D3 and Magnesium Citrate is so easy and effective I can' see how you would not want to try it.

But I know it is hard for people to understand this?

I asked my doctor the same thing when I found about how Magnesium could help me?

"Why didn't I find out about Magnesium from you doc?"  and he agreed he should of been telling me these things.

So I just try and tell other's  .... some listen some don't.

I am that boy walking down the seashore throwing starfish back.

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/56782.Loren_Eiseley

You can't do what you don't know .  ......if you don't believe me ask Ennis_tx in the right form Magnesium can make a tremendous difference in one's life.

I once gave Magnesium away to my friends (at least those who would take it).

And once one was helped they too wanted to be helped in the same way.

But belief . .. is like the first million dollars. .... the first one that believes' is the hardest!

And when they see it helps others' they too want to do the same things!

There was a popular book a few years ago called "The Tipping Point: How Little Things can make a BIG difference" by Malcolm Gladwell.

And supplementation when you find the right missing nutrient/vitamin/mineral can feel the same way.

What a BIG difference magnesium makes when you are low in it!

For another example of how being low in Magnesium can help us see this research on how it can help depression in people entitled "Rapid recovery from major depression using magnesium treatment."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16542786

And yet people still suffer from depression today right . .... because they don't think something as simply supplemented with either a B-complex or Magnesium  or Vitamin D can help their moods.

where they say quoting

"Case histories are presented showing rapid recovery (less than 7 days) from major depression using 125-300 mg of magnesium (as glycinate and taurinate) with each meal and at bedtime. Magnesium was found usually effective for treatment of depression in general use."

and note this research is 10+ years old and still the doctor's haven't incorporated this knowledge into their clinical practice.

It takes a "generation" because their is a generation/knowledge gap of 17 years approx. to bring this new research in to clinical practice and it is a "devestating delay" that most people don't have the time to spare/wait for.

I have shared what I know from experience and the experience of my friends and how at least one other (Vitamin D and Magnesium) advocate on this board has been helped. ... it is now up to you to decide what you will do with it.

I wish you all the best on your continued journey!

This is not medical advice but I hope it is helpful.

As always “Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things”

2 Timothy 2: 7 

Posterboy by the grace of God,

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plumbago, 

I was reading some articles on Eosinophilic esophagitis and ran across this article.  It talks about EOE in pediatric patients having sleep disordered breathing...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=eosinophilic+esophagitis+sleep+disordered+breathing

I wonder if EOE could be contributing to your sleep apnea. 

Hope this helps.  

Kitty

P.S. Still think vitamin D is a good idea. 

On 10/30/2018 at 6:16 PM, plumbago said:

Hi Everyone,

I was recently diagnosed with sleep apnea. Not mild sleep apnea, mind you, but severe sleep apnea. I was floored, stunned, dismayed, shocked, resistant, the whole kit n caboodle. I just couldn't get over it. But whatever, apparently I have it, and I'm now on a cpap, or to be technical, an apap (automatic positive air pressure). Just wanted to open this up to others to exchange thoughts and ideas.

I don't really think it has anything to do with celiac disease or that celiac disease has anything to do with it. One of my parents was dx'ed with sleep apnea (central and obstructive), I tend to think for me, the pathophysiology is anatomical/structural. I'm told it's more obstructive, but there are some central apneas in there as well (I'm still waiting on the full report). This is a bit of unchartered territory for me.

I've been on the machine for about 4 days, and all I can say is that I feel...different. Different because, yes, I suppose I'm more alert during the day but the test will come during the weekends when there's less to be alert for, and whether or not I fall into my postprandial slumber. Different also because it's taking some getting used to sleeping with an elephant trunk attached to my face.

Reading and researching is very important to me, so I've done some online reading and just received a text book by a doctor all on sleep apnea. Technical and tough reading - will take me a long time to get through five pages. But maybe it'll come in handy occasionally. There's not a lot of material out there in between a very basic level and a very technical level.

Plumbago

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
4 4

×