Thiamine Thiamine Thiamine

[knitty kitty]

Thiamine Use by Doctors in Hospital and

Interesting articles about Thiamine

 

Neurological, Psychiatric, and Biochemical Aspects of Thiamine Deficiency in Children and Adults

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6459027/#idm140604396876032title

 

Shoshin Beriberi in Critically-Ill patients: case series

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4443551/

 

Wernicke's encephalopathy because of pancreatitis in a young boy.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21091939

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1755-3768.2010.02033.x

 

Thiamine and Heart Failure

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6543258/

 

Thiamin deficiency and heart failure: the current knowledge and gaps in literature.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24811895

And a different follow-up article...

Thiamine supplementation for the treatment of heart failure: a review of the literature.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23910704

 

Thiamine and Hashimoto's thyroiditis: a report of three cases.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24351023

 

Thiamine deficiency and beriberi features in a patient with hyperemesis gravidarum.(Morning Sickness)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15979284

 

Thiamine and fatigue in inflammatory bowel diseases: an open-label pilot study.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23379830

 

High-dose thiamine improves fatigue after stroke: a report of three cases.  (All normal levels in tests)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25192035

 

Acute Bilateral Deafness as the First Symptom of Wernicke Encephalopathy

http://www.ajnr.org/content/33/3/E44

 

Achlorhydria is associated with thiamine deficiency in the setting of bacterial overgrowth. 

https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/170066-medication

 

Elevated Lactate Secondary to Gastrointestinal Beriberi

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4699997/

 

Nonalcoholic Thiamine-Related Encephalopathy (Wernicke-Korsakoff Syndrome) Among Inpatients With Cancer: A Series of 18 Cases

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4979979/

 

Thiamin. Fact Sheet for Health Professionals

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Thiamin-HealthProfessional/

 

And.....

 

Neurological manifestations, diagnosis, and treatment of celiac disease: A comprehensive review

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3829244/

 

 

?

 

[Posterboy]

Knitty Kitty,

That is a pretty good list to start with....we all  know there is more we could add....when ever one/someone makes a list....something is left off...

I found this Slideshow recently that might be easier for a causal observer to follow....

I will give a "key" to highlight certain slides t hat might be helpful to someone.... approx. 40 slides in all..

 Here is slides to "key" on from notes that I made for myself so whomever might find this thread can quickly review it...

see slide 14 Magnesium is needed by the body to utilize Thiamine...

see slide 16 ….thiamine is needed for the metabolism of tryptophan…. Meaning being low in thiamine…(and why Vegans  (can/do) develop Pellagra)...and being free of meat....eliminates a good source of tryptophan from their diet(s)...and if we are too low in thiamine....we can no longer synthesize it (Niacin) from our "food stuffs"...

https://casereports.bmj.com/content/11/1/e227454

it locks up the mean’s to produce Niacin thus contributing in time to a Pellagra diagnosis….but the Thiamine Deficiency happens FIRST

see slide 33 ….processed foods high in sulfite content destroys thiamine content of foods

see slide 36 Celiac sprue and malabsorption syndrome is a cause of thiamine deficiency…
Dry Beri Beri (occurs from starvation)

See slide 28 Wet Beri (heart, GI problems) occurs from high calorie malnutrition…Pedal Edema are a good self test…

I hope this is helpful but It is not medical advise.

May it help the next person in line...it forms at the rear....wish I had know this years ago!

Thank you for sharing these resources Knittt Kitity so the next person can be helped the way you were.

Posterboy,

[Posterboy]

To All,

I wanted to add this studied I just came across.....Maybe it will help someone else.

Here is the Abstract  entitled "Metabolic Benefits of Six-month Thiamine Supplementation in Patients With and Without Diabetes Mellitus Type 2." The study shows how taking Thiamine can  help elevated Cholesterol levels.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24550684

quoting from the abstract...

"In all groups, there was a significant decrease in total cholesterol after three months (p = 0.03) as well as in HDL cholesterol after six months of thiamine supplementation (p = 0.009). Significant improvements were also observed in the mean serum levels of creatinine (p = 0.001), as well as thiamine and its derivatives in both serum and urinary levels across follow-up visits."

Meaning in those with and without diabetes taking thiamine helped elevated Cholesterol levels....and for Diabetics the kidney Creatine levels went down....and is what I experienced from taking Thiamine....

I just didn't know there was a study proving this relationship at the time....I only know my complicated (high Creatine levels) got better when taking Thiamine....and neither did the doctor's are at least they didn't mention it  or believe it....because the front line medicine is still statins to this day for elevated cholesterol levels...

Sadly this research is 5+ years old and there is still no move away from statins (a  medicine) to realize a Vitamin deficiency can be causing these symptoms...

The Fat Soluble Benfotiamine is a highly absorbible form that can be found in the diabetic section....but apparently even if your not diabetic yet it can help your elevated cholesterol levels and get off statins for good.

One of the classic symptom's of  Wet Beri Beri is an enlarged heart....a symptom the doctor's told me about ....but couldn't tell me what to do about it....now my heart is healthy.

I hope this is helpful but it is  not medical advise.

Posterboy,

[knitty kitty]

Thiamine deficiency and SIBO

 

https://www.eonutrition.co.uk/post/thiamine-deficiency-a-major-cause-of-sibo

 

[knitty kitty]

Important studies

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc1774096/

A microarray screen for novel candidate genes in coeliac disease pathogenesis

"Downregulation of the transmembrane 4 superfamily member 4 gene (TM4SF4), which by real time RT-PCR turned out to be down-regulated eightfold "

 

And

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc3943980/

Association of TM4SF4 with the human thiamine transporter-2 in intestinal epithelial cells

"These results show for the first time that the accessory protein TM4SF4 interacts with hTHTR-2 and influences the physiological function of the thiamine transporter."

 

PosterBoy, 

Celiac genes and thiamine transporter link???

Double check these for me!

 

[Posterboy]

Knitty Kitty,

You have done good research as usual.

I have found similar research....I think your first research makes a good case that "other" genes are involved in Celiac disease.....some on this forum have had other genes and still received a Celiac diagnosis....though after many frustrating years...of being denied one....because the "genes' didn't fit one of two common types...

Concerning the 2nd one on Thiamine....it makes sense that B-Vitamins would interact with our genes....they are involved in single carbon transfers.....thiamine transporters are responsible for transporting thiamine into our cells.....any break down in this system would require higher amounts of the Vitamin to accomplish the same effect....much like Insulin resistance diabetics....we don't say it is a genetic disease....

It is an interaction with nutrition and our environment and in type II diabetics it effects our genes...

Here is another study about thiamine becoming deficient due to genetic/environment interplay...

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpheart.00182.2003

"Gene-environment interactions in wet beriberi: effects of thiamine depletion in CD36-defect rats"

This gene-environment interaction is a two way street....

Dr. Lonsdale concluded the same thing in his work with Thiamine...

http://www.peirsoncenter.com/uploads/6/0/5/5/6055321/thiamin.pdf

where he said it was "Genetic risk coupled with malnutrition" that are the "Keys to disease".

I think we have found out what is happening....now it will just take doctor's looking for these "Keys" to prove it....

It is what motivated me to write this article for Celiac.com which Scott Adams graciously featured...

Because the Science say's when you get low in Thiamine our body tissues/thins and then leaks...

It is the form of "Wet Beri Beri" that causes fluid in our tissues like the lungs and legs....and Pleural Effusions around the heart....they (our) vessels leak when we get too low in Thiamine...

This heathline article summarizes it well.....we first develop Low Albumin levels when/as our Thiammine levels become to look to keep our vessels from leaking...this should be a serious sign to doctor's that we are getting low in Thiamine.....I know I had these symptom's...

https://www.healthline.com/health/hypoalbuminemia#complications

If it happens in Celiac disease....it is called a "Celiac Crisis"....

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2900539/

But they don't think in terms of "nutrition" as a cause of disease in the "West"

The British Journal of Nutrition concluded the same thing about a Thiamine deficiency in the elderly as a risk factor for Dementia....

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-nutrition/article/div-classtitlethiamine-deficiency-in-the-western-diet-and-dementia-riskdiv/E1E740214706478EB6EB6F0094C99795

But I know you understand this....this is for other's that might still be suffering with a Thiamine deficiency going undiagnosed like we did and who could better after supplementation.

Benfotiamine is a readily available fat soluble form of B-1 found in the diabetic section that is well absorbed for others who might read this .....that can help many of the undiagnosed symptom's today of a thiamine deficiency no longer recognized in Western medicine.  Thiamine works best when taken with a well absorbed Magnesium supplement like Magnesium Citrate with meals or Magnesium Glycinate anytime.

Benfotiamine 2 to 3 times with  Magnesium Citrate with meals usually shows improvement in symptom's in one month and a sustained improvement in symptom's in 2 to 3 months.

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.

Posterboy,

[Posterboy]

Knitty Kitty et al,

Here is another article  on Thiamine that I just came across that might help anybody else who is following this thread or who might come across it on the internet...about mouth ulcers....entitled

"Recurrent aphthous stomatitis (RAS) and thiamine deficiency"

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1079210496804379

This information is 20+ years old and the doctor's don't know to look for or recognize a Vitamin deficiency when it shows up "with so many faces"....they easily get confused....I know I was for years!

http://www.hormonesmatter.com/beriberi-the-great-imitator/

Again Benfotiamine is the easily found and highly absorbed found in most diabetic sections...

It helps diabetic and non diabetics alike...

See this research entitled "Metabolic Benefits of Six-month Thiamine Supplementation in Patients With and Without Diabetes Mellitus Type 2"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3921172/

People's who's Cholesterol levels were elevated were helped with Thiamine supplementation...and their Creatine levels improved too!

This was my experience as well....after taking Thiamine my elevated Creatine levels got better!

This article by the Frustrate Pharmacist explains it well.

http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v08n05.shtml

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.

Posterboy,

[knitty kitty]

Thiamin Status During the Third Trimester of Pregnancy and Its Influence on Thiamin Concentrations in Transition and Mature Breast Milk

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15230996/

 

Thiamin Status During Pregnancy

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7399809/

 

More than just morning sickness

https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/106/12/1123/1632896

 

Thiamine and Hashimoto's Thyroiditis: A Report of Three Cases

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24351023/

 

 

The Role of Vitamins and Minerals in Psychiatry

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3046018/#!po=10.0000

 

Optic neuropathy from thiamine deficiency in a patient with ulcerative colitis

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00142696

 

Vestibular signs of thiamine deficiency during the early phase of suspected Wernicke encephalopathy

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6082353/

 

 

[knitty kitty]

I was on the AutoImmune Paleo Protocol diet (which promotes intestinal healing) and decided to expand my diet to include basmati rice and quinoa.  I got sick with headaches and upset tummy.  So, I'd go back to the AIP diet and after a few days, I'd feel a bit better. 

I did some investigation to find out why this was happening.  I learned about "high calorie malnutrition" which is eating too many carbohydrates without enough Thiamine, vitamin B1, at the same time.  Thiamine is needed to turn carbohydrates into energy.  

I learned that the AIP diet can be deficient in thiamine.  I was not getting enough thiamine from the food choices I made that were allowed on the AIP diet.  

I am also a type two diabetic who controls blood sugar levels through diet.  I recognized that the headaches after eating more carbs was due to high blood sugar levels.  My blood glucose meter confirmed this.  High blood sugar levels can happen even if you are not diabetic.  

I believe when I tried to eat lots of carbohydrates, I suffered from this high calorie malnutrition.  I did not have enough thiamine to process the sudden increase in carbohydrates.  I began supplementing with thiamine and have corrected that deficiency.  I can now eat additional carbohydrates like rice chex and quinoa and basmati rice without a problem.  

Be aware that while gluten containing products are required by law to be fortified with vitamins and minerals, no such requirements are made on their gluten free counterparts.

Checking for and correcting vitamin and mineral deficiencies in newly diagnosed Celiacs is part of follow up care.  The damage to the intestines caused by celiac disease causes an inability to absorb the proper amounts of vitamins and minerals.  You may want to discuss vitamin and mineral deficiencies with your doctor.  

This is not medical advice.  I am relating what happened with me.  

Here's some studies about high calorie malnutrition that I found helpful.

The Malnutrition of Obesity: Micronutrient Deficiencies That Promote Diabetes

"Thiamine is virtually absent in food products containing refined carbohydrates such as milled rice and simple sugars, yet the metabolism of these foods requires relatively high amounts of thiamine and may lead to depletion [74]. In subjects on thiamine deficient diets, total body thiamine stores can be depleted within 2-3 weeks [74]."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3313629/#!po=28.4314

 

Thiamin(e): The Spark of Life

"High calorie malnutrition, due to excessive ingestion of simple carbohydrates, is widely encountered in the U.S.A. today. Thiamin deficiency is commonly associated with this, largely because of its cofactor status in the metabolism of glucose."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22116701/

 

Neurological, Psychiatric, and Biochemical Aspects of Thiamine Deficiency in Children and Adults

"Despite the availability of dietary thiamine in wealthy countries, thiamine deficiency represents an important and usually overlooked issue. In developed countries, the predominant use of industrial food processing often depletes thiamine content along with other vitamins and nutrients. An increased consumption of processed food in the form of simple carbohydrates, not supplemented with adequate levels of thiamine, has been named “high calorie malnutrition” (7, 8). Thus, despite the caloric density, the diet is often of poor nutrition quality and does not meet recommended dietary guidelines for micronutrient intake, making this an at-risk population for micronutrient malnutrition (8). ...This condition highlights the fine balance between adequate caloric intake and balanced nutritional diet. As thiamine is a key factor in the metabolism of glucose, an increased carbohydrate intake will proportionally increase thiamine’s dietary demand (a minimum of 0.33 mg per 1,000 kcal) (1). Thus, rather than focusing on thiamine’s RDA, it is critical to match its intake with carbohydrate consumption as well as total caloric intake."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6459027/#!po=2.35849

 

 

[Posterboy]

Knitty Kitty,

Here are more Thiamine links of associated conditions that doctor's don't know today are associated with a Thiamine Deficiency.

"Vestibular (Inner Ear) Signs of Thiamine Deficiency During the Early Phase of Suspected Wernicke Encephalopathy"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30107022/

"Visual Loss and Optic Nerve Head Swelling in Thiamine Deficiency Without Prolonged Dietary Deficiency"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24899800/

"Thiamine deficient Optic Neuropathy Associated With Wernicke's Encephalopathy in Patients With Chronic Diarrhea"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23473530/

"Early recognition of thiamine deficiency: ocular motor deficits in a patient with nutritional deprivation due to persistent antibiotic-related nausea"

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s15010-019-01363-w

"The Spectrum of Vestibular and Ocular Motor Abnormalities in Thiamine Deficiency"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28365885/

And the Annals of Internal Medicine recently concluded

"Eye movement (s) may be the earliest warning sign of a potentially dangerous thiamine deficiency" like nystagmus, a vision condition in which the eyes make repetitive, uncontrolled movements.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-04-eye-movement-earliest-potentially-dangerous.html

they concluded quoting

"According to the researcher, a careful ocular motor and vestibular examination may enable a diagnosis of thiamine deficiency before a patient develops dangerous manifestations of a thiamine deficiency."

I hope this is helpful to the next person who might still be suffering the earliest signs of an (Occult) IE hidden thiamine deficiency (before Beri Beri develops)....and obvious signs have not presented themselves yet....

Because our "Western" eyes cant' see a Thiamine deficiency from High Calorie Malnutrition...

Thank you Dr. Londsdale for all the good work you have done and to opening  our eyes to high calorie malnutrition and all the wonderful articles you have published on the Hormones Matter website.

Here is two articles from the Hormones Matter website where Dr. Lonsdale publishes his Case reports of how many patients that come to his office....are still suffering from a Thiamine deficiency that get better after a few months of supplementation that other doctor's have missed for years....as they did in my case...

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/manifestations-thiamine-deficiency-case-beriberi-america/

I had low Albumin levels, Chronic Fatigue, Creatine in kidneys, and at one time Low Potassium Levels...

An almost perfect definition of the "Refeeding Syndrome" missed in the 50 percent of those who's trigger is Malnutrition commonly seen in Celiac's going undiagnosed today as sign of a Thiamine deficiency.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322120#who-is-at-risk  (Of Refeeding Syndrome)

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/refeeding-syndrome-thiamine-deficiency/

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/thiamine-deficiency-causes-intracellular-potassium-wasting/

That got better after supplementing with Benfotiamine and Magnesium Glycinate/Magnesium Citrate....

I hope this helps the next person in line who might read this....

I can only tell  you it helped me.

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.

Posterboy,

Knitty Kitty thank you for starting this thread!  I hope it helps many people some day!

Oh and when you get low in Thiamine it can thin your villi too!

[knitty kitty]

Elevated liver enzymes and thiamine deficiency

My doctor accused me of lying about drinking, but I do not drink alcohol. I have never been able to tolerate it.

It turned out to be Thiamine Deficiency! 

Alcohol consumption can cause thiamine deficiency because alcohol inhibits thiamine absorption in the intestines.  Abnormal liver enzymes occurs in alcoholism.

That's why a doctor may ask if you drink alcohol.   A thiamine deficiency will cause abnormal liver enzymes similar to those in alcoholism.

You've got Celiac Disease which causes malabsorption which results in vitamin deficiencies.  The Gluten free diet is deficient or low in certain vitamins and minerals.  The longer you're on the gluten free diet, the more likely you can develop nutritional deficiencies.

Thiamine is a water soluble B vitamin (B 1 in the group of eight essential B vitamins).  Thiamine is needed by every cell in your body to provide energy and enzymes used in body functions.

You can have a chronic low level of thiamine that worsens over time.  As time goes on and your thiamine level gets lower, your body can't function as well and health problems begin to manifest.

Your body doesn't store Thiamine for very long.  You can use up your thiamine stores in as little as nine days to two weeks.  You need more thiamine when under stress, both physical stress like when you're ill and emotional stress, if you are physically active, live in hot climate, have a desk job that requires lots of thinking (your brain needs energy from thiamine to think - that's why you can feel exhausted after sitting at a desk all day), and when you eat a lot of carbohydrates.  

If you've been eating a lot of carbohydrates, you can become low in thiamine because so much thiamine is needed to convert those carbohydrates into energy.  Gluten free versions of cookies and processed snacks are not required to be enriched with vitamins lost in processing like the gluten containing ones are.  

High dose thiamine (300 mg thiamine a day) is needed to replenish your thiamine.  Refer your doctor to the book by Dr. Derrick Lonsdale and Dr. Chandler Marrs entitled "Thiamine Deficiency Disease, Dyautonomia and High Calorie Malnutrition".  You can read more about the effects of thiamine deficiency on Dr. Marrs' website www.hormonesmatter.com.

Here's an article on nutrient deficiencies in Celiac Disease on a gluten free diet...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6681258/

Here's an article about liver enzymes in alcoholism which explains how thiamine works...

https://academic.oup.com/alcalc/article/44/2/177/185522

Your doctor needs to think outside the box.  Thiamine deficiency does not only occur in alcoholism.  The deficiency can occur in Celiac Disease.  I know.  I lived through it.  

Please have your doctor test for thiamine deficiency using the erythrocyte transketolase test.  

Keep us updated on your progress.

Hope this helps!

[knitty kitty]

I took regular B-Complex vitamins and didn't feel much different.  I kept researching and found that when you have a deficiency of thiamine, the thiamine transporters that help thiamine get into the cells turn off and don't function.  In order to get the Thiamine transporters to turn back on, you have to flood the body with thiamine so thiamine can "force" its way into the cells. 

So I started taking high doses of thiamine:  300 mg or 3 grams of thiamine a day.  I took 100 mg tablets of thiamine (thiamine HCl, thiamine hydrochloride) with each meal.  And I got immediate improvement!  I did more research and found Dr. Lonsdale and Dr. Marrs' book "Thiamine Deficiency Disease, Dysautonomia, and High Calorie Malnutrition" and their website www.hormonesmatter.com, which  has much information there as in the book.  They recommend taking the form of thiamine called Allithiamine.  (It's made from garlic from the Allum family.)  It's a form that crosses the blood-brain barrier because it is fat soluble.  I got even more improvement. 

Thiamine needs riboflavin (B2) and niacin (B3) and pyridoxine (B6) and omega 3 fats and vitamin C and magnesium to work best.  The difference is amazing!  I feel so much better now, more energetic, no more brain fog.  My diabetes is better controlled and I don't take medication for it anymore, just low carbohydrate AutoImmune Paleo diet.

Here's an article on high dose thiamine.  It's used in Alzheimer's disease, too.  These used injections of thiamine, but the over the counter thiamine supplements and allithiamine available without prescription works just as well.  It may take several months to see the full benefits.  The more deficient you are the quicker you see benefits.  I'm still seeing improvement several months in.  

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5354137/

Discuss this with your doctor.  My doctors totally dismissed the possibility of vitamin deficiencies.  One said he would not check for vitamin deficiencies because he could not make any money from vitamins.  He promptly wrote me five prescriptions to relieve (cover up) the symptoms.  I researched and found my own answers.  I'm a microbiologist, not a doctor, so discuss supplementing with your doctor.  Doctors need to learn about thiamine supplementation for more health problems.  Thiamine and Vitamin C is being given to Covd patients on respirators to help them survive.  Thiamine can help with so much more!

I have wanted to visit your part of the world and see the pyramid for many years!  Just when I start planning a trip Covid hit.  Send us a postcard! 😸

Keep us posted on your progress and your sister's, too.  

Best wishes for your journey to health!

Knitty Kitty

P.S.  forgot this article

https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/vitamins/thiamin

 

[knitty kitty]

And another article.....

"The Effects of Thiamine Tetrahydrofurfuryl Disulfide on Physiological Adaption and Exercise Performance Improvement"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6073388/

And another.....

"Thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide promotes voluntary activity through dopaminergic activation in the medial prefrontal cortex"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6041333/

[knitty kitty]

I found some more Thiamine research and I'm adding it here.

High carbohydrate diets are bad.....

"Thiamine deficiency in a dog associated with exclusive consumption of boiled sweet potato (Ipomoea batatas): Serial changes in clinical findings, magnetic resonance imaging findings and blood lactate and thiamine concentrations"

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/vms3.352

 

Lots and lots of wonderful info here.....

"Pathophysiology, prevention, and treatment of beriberi after gastric surgery"

https://academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article/78/12/1015/5835520

 

Plain English.....

"When SIBO & IBS-Constipation are just unrecognized thiamine deficiency"

https://www.objectivenutrients.com/insights/when-sibo-ibs-constipation-are-unrecognized

 

And....

"Thiamine Deficiency - A Potential Cause of SIBO and other Gut Dysfunction?"

https://www.eonutrition.co.uk/post/thiamine-deficiency-a-major-cause-of-sibo

Hope this helps!

[knitty kitty]

You can have thiamine deficiency with or without Celiac Disease.

Antibiotics for bad skin and antibiotics for SIBO can contribute to Thiamine deficiency.

Antibiotics cause thiamine depletion.  Sulfa drugs, including sulfa based antibiotics or the sulfa preservatives used in them, contribute to Thiamine deficiency.  Your body needs thiamine to process sulfites.  Sulfites are also used in perfumes and anything scented (laundry detergent, dryer sheets, but spray, air fresheners, candles, etc.).  

Every cell in your body needs thiamine to provide energy for its functions and enzymes for chemical reactions.   

Without enough thiamine, you can't properly digest carbohydrates (sweet potatoes, oats, rice, wheat products, etc.) and sugars (lactose, sucrose, fructose) and fats.   For every 1000 calories (kcal) carbohydrates, you need at least 0.5 mg thiamine.  Sweet potatoes contain chemicals (thiaminase) that break thiamine apart destroying it and contributing to Thiamine insufficiency.

Those undigested carbohydrates squish through your intestines and your intestinal bacteria have a field day digesting those carbs. They have parties, making lots of gas and bloating, and reproduce out of control.  The increased numbers of bacteria will compete with you for thiamine.  Care to guess who wins?  The bacteria continue to prosper while you get sicker.  

One of the things thiamine does is control the intestinal bacteria.  Without enough thiamine, the bacteria start growing outside of the large intestine, where we like them to live, and  they colonize new territory, the small intestine, where we don't like them to live.  Hence, Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth=SIBO.  Thiamine is absorbed in the small intestine where the invading bacteria overgrow.  The bacteria absorb any thiamine you've consumed before you can.  

Thiamine deficiency will cause gastrointestinal symptoms:  nausea, Gerd, Reflux, Leaky Gut and IBS like symptoms.  Thiamine deficiency will cause tingly hands and feet as you describe, which can become burning pins and needles.    Thiamine deficiency can cause depression, apathy, anorexia, anxiety, and panic attacks.

Neurotransmitters (those feel good brain chemicals) are made in the digestive tract.  Without enough thiamine to provide energy and enzymes for making neurotransmitters, you feel depressed.  Doctors frequently prescribe antidepressants to "sedate" the digestive tract because your digestive tract has receptors for neurotransmitters just like your brain.  

Single vitamin deficiencies are rare.  The eight essential B vitamins are all interdependent.  If there's a problem with one, there's usually more that are low or deficient.  Skin problems can be due to inadequacies in other B vitamins like niacin and riboflavin.

Thiamine deficiency shows up first because it cannot be stored in the body for long.  Deficiency in thiamine can occur in as little as nine days.  Symptoms can wax and wane depending on amount of thiamine consumed (whether you ate lots of thiamine rich foods that day) and how much thiamine is required.  (More thiamine is required during exercise, illness, emotional stress, hot weather.)

You said you felt better on a low carb and meat diet probably because you weren't using thiamine to process excess carbohydrates and had more thiamine available for your body to utilize.

Thiamine needs magnesium, in addition to the other essential B vitamins, to work properly.  So,  magnesium, a good B-Complex with additional high dose Thiamine should be beneficial.

Thiamine needs transporters to get into cells.  These transporters turn off when there's a thiamine deficiency.  To turn them back on, high doses of thiamine need to be taken in order to flood into the cells freely.  Dr. Lonsdale and Dr. Marrs have written lots about high dose Thiamine.  They recommend allithiamine or lipothiamine which cross the blood/brain barrier, but any  thiamine will help.  They do warn to gradually increase doses up or down, and there is a period of feeling yucky after starting, but it goes away in a few days.  Improvement can be seen in just a few hours.  Here's their website..

http://www.hormonesmatter.com/vitamin-therapy-paradox/

I know a lot about thiamine deficiency because I experienced it myself.  My doctors gave me prescriptions to treat the symptoms of IBS (undiagnosed Celiac, in my case, and a high carbohydrate Standard American diet).  The medications are known to interfere with thiamine.  My symptoms worsened, more medications given (including antidepressants). 

Doctors are trained to prescribe pharmaceuticals to make money.  Doctors in training are given about fifteen minutes of instructions on vitamins and minerals and nutrition.  It's like going to the Car Repair Shop and being sold mud flaps, mirror charms, and mufflers instead of spark plugs which will actually get your car running..

My doctors did not recognize thiamine deficiency symptoms, even Wernicke's Encephalopathy symptoms, outside of alcoholism.  So when I adamantly stated I never drink alcohol, they shrugged and wrote me off as hypochondriac.  Being a microbiologist, and loving research, I searched for my own answers.  

Celiac Disease causes malabsorption which results in malnutrition, aka vitamin and mineral deficiencies.  Thiamine deficiency shows up quickly because we need so much and use it up so quickly when we're ill.  With thiamine insufficiency, other vitamins can't do their jobs and it becomes a spiraling decent into illness.

Here's your reading list.....

"Nutrition and Functional Neurochemistry"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK28242/

And...

"Neurological, Psychiatric, and Biochemical Aspects of Thiamine Deficiency in Children and Adults"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6459027/

And...

"Thiamine Nutritional Status and Depressive Symptoms Are Inversely Associated among Older Chinese Adults"

https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/143/1/53/4569792

And...

"Adjuvant thiamine improved standard treatment in patients with major depressive disorder: results from a randomized, double-blind, and placebo-controlled clinical trial"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26984349/

And...

 

"Thiamine deficiency in a dog associated with exclusive consumption of boiled sweet potato (Ipomoea batatas): Serial changes in clinical findings, magnetic resonance imaging findings and blood lactate and thiamine concentrations"

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/vms3.352

And...

"Pathophysiology, prevention, and treatment of beriberi after gastric surgery"

https://academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article/78/12/1015/5835520

And....

"When SIBO & IBS-Constipation are just unrecognized thiamine deficiency"

https://www.objectivenutrients.com/insights/when-sibo-ibs-constipation-are-unrecognized

And...

"Thiamine deficiency - A consequence or cause of SIBO?"

https://www.eonutrition.co.uk/post/thiamine-deficiency-a-major-cause-of-sibo

 

Not a doctor, but I suggest a trial of over-the-counter thiamine Vitamin B1 supplements before starting on antidepressants.  Of course, check with your doctor because we can't give medical advice. 

Thiamine is water soluble.  Thiamine has no toxicity limit.  (At most if you take too much it can make your tummy upset.  So, what's new?)  This is what I learned from my experience with and recovery from thiamine deficiency.

[Posterboy]

Knitty Kitty,

I came across this article on Thiamine recently and had to share!

It is the best article I've ever read on Thiamine.  It is very exhaustive!

It is called  (Thiamine) The Overlooked Vitamin That Improves Autoimmune Disease And Autonomic Dysfunction

https://awaken.com/2021/02/the-overlooked-vitamin-that-improves-autoimmune-disease-and-autonomic-dysfunction/

It is time doctor's awaken to the fact that a Thiamine deficiency is behind many medical issues going UNdiagnosed today!

Posterboy,

[knitty kitty]

 Within minutes of taking thiamine supplements, I noticed improvement.  It was astounding how quickly and how dramatically the changes came.  

I had a chronic thiamine deficiency over a period of years.  I got lower and lower in thiamine and acquired more and more symptoms.  

I would get headaches with pressure during physical activity, taking longer and longer to recover.  Fatigue set in.

Digestion problems:  acid reflux, gastroparesis, SIBO, insulin resistance....Gastrointestinal beriberi.

 Ankle and foot swelling:  Edema of the extremities is a classic symptom of Thiamine deficiency.

Sore calf muscles and Charlie horses:  Magnesium helps relax muscles.  Thiamine needs magnesium to work.  Both are often low.  Sore calves are another classic symptom. 

Ascending Peripheral neuropathy....also another classic symptom.   

I started sounding very hoarse when I spoke.  And I started stuttering!  (Stuttering is a rare manifestation.)  Thiamine deficiency can affect the larynx and throat causing problems swallowing and speaking.  

(Curious Cat Question:  Have you ever listened to how many hoarse people there are at bars? Alcoholism causes thiamine deficiency, too.) 

Eye problems caused by optic nerve swelling....I'm legally blind and one pupil won't constrict or dilate so this kitty always wears shades...  

Dizziness, mal de mer, vertigo, balance issues which got so bad I walked like I was thoroughly inebriated....Thiamine Deficiency affects the vestibular system. 

POTS (postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome)...My blood pressure wouldn't increase when I stood up and I'd swoon... 

Palpitations, tachycardia, anxiety, then panic attacks, and insomnia despite the fatigue.... Panic attacks are the flight or fight response turned on, but, hey, thiamine is needed to turn it off!

Thiamine deficiency affects the lower part of the brain that controls breathing, blood pressure,  the fight or flight response, balance, digestion, all the stuff you don't have to consciously think  about. 

The World Health Organization has a field test for thiamine deficiency.  The test is to rise from a squat to a standing position. 

I failed miserably.  I squatted down to get something off the bottom shelf in the grocery store and could not stand back up.  My leg muscles were frozen.  I couldn't move.  I had to fall over and straighten out my legs with my hands.  It was difficult to get up.  

And the brain fog.....it was like a dimmer switch in my brain was being turned down lower and lower.  Very scary.

And then there was the concurrent pellagra (Niacin deficiency), Vitamin D deficiency, B12 deficiency and weird anemia because of the concurrent thiamine deficiency, osteoporosis, miscarriages, endometriosis, gallbladder removal.  

Remember the water soluble B vitamins all work together.  It's rare to have a deficiency in just one of the eight B vitamins.  So take a B Complex and vitamin C.

Thiamine is the B vitamin that is lost the quickest (deficiency can occur in as little as ten days), and that we use the most (every cell in your body needs thiamine).

There's more here.....articles about thiamine and more of my experiences with thiamine deficiency....

 

[knitty kitty]

Love this one!

Nutritional Neuropathies

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4199287/

 

[Posterboy]

Knitty Kitty,

I came across these links again recently.

I am just posting them here again in case we missed them somehow...

Very contrasting levels of learning.....one from an expert and one from an "Amateur Expert" lay person....who also has found these connections between Low Thiamine levels and systemic disease...

From Lonsdale entitled "Thiamine and magnesium deficiencies: keys to disease"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25542071/

From Just a “Common Person” who found out that low Magnesium and Thiamine levels where causing her Son’s Nystagmus…..aka "Dancing Eyes" on of the classic clinical symptom's of a Thiamine deficiency.

http://www.ctds.info/nystagmus.html#:~:text=Though it does not seem to be well,deficiencies of each have been linked to nystagmus.

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advice.

Posterboy,

[knitty kitty]

Costochondritis is the inflammation of the cartilage where your ribs connect together with your breast bone.  

This link explains more...And the treatment is high dose thiamine..... elimination of the problem was seen in three days....

 

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://austinpublishinggroup.com/nutritional-disorders/fulltext/download.php%3Ffile%3Dandt-v6-id1057.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwix7f2uhv_uAhUNXM0KHai_AOIQFjAAegQIDBAB&usg=AOvVaw0Grw8yML6xgZ8ejg3RvLvO

[knitty kitty]

Once I got the stumbling blocks out of the way and started the Autoimmune Paleo Diet, I felt better within weeks. 

It's hard to compare because some people don't have active Celiac Disease very long before it's identified.  Others have spent years with active undiagnosed Celiac Disease draining their health for decades.  

I'm one of those oldies that thought certain symptoms were "normal," at least for my family.  Little did I realize then that they had Celiac symptoms, too, because it's genetic.  

By my mid thirties, I had been prescribed lots of medications to treat worsening symptoms of Celiac and that cascade of health problems.  These medications caused problems for several reasons.  

Some medications I was prescribed were sulfa drugs.  I have a hypersensitivity reaction to sulfa drugs.  My doctor didn't believe in sulfa drug allergy and berated me.  Type Four Hypersensitivity reactions are a real thing. It can occur in Celiac Disease.

Some medications I was prescribed have the side effect of depleting thiamine (metformin and a thiazide diuretic, beta blocker for high blood pressure).  My doctor was ignorant of this and offered no adjunct thiamine supplementation.  When asked about additional worsening symptoms, my doctor accused me of making stuff up and stormed out of the exam room.  Other doctors asked if I drank alcohol.  When I answered negatively, they said I was a hypochondriac and walked away.  They had missed diagnosing Wernicke's Encephalopathy (thiamine deficiency).  Wernicke's does occur outside of alcoholism in nutritional malabsorption associated with Celiac Disease. Another doctor missed Pellagra (Niacin deficiency).  I begged one doctor to test for deficiencies.  He adamantly refused saying "I can't make money prescribing vitamins!" 

So it was up to me.  I'd lost all faith in the medical profession.

So I researched, recognized vitamin deficiencies, corrected them and here I am, sharing what I've learned. 

[knitty kitty]

Once I went on the AIP diet, I felt so much better within days.  Removing inflammatory foods was like going on a vacation for my poor intestines!

I had suffered with Celiac symptoms for as long as I can remember, but because the whole family (it's genetic!) had similar symptoms, they were brushed off as "normal."  By midlife, I had developed a cascade of health problems. Doctors threw pharmaceuticals at me.  I took them like a good patient, but the failing health cascade continued. 

Eventually the doctors wrote me off as a crazy hypochondriac person when their pharmaceutical bandaids failed or made me worse...and I started researching.....

Physically healing, resolving those things for which I was given medications, took a couple of years.  I've corrected vitamin deficiencies.  I no longer have blood pressure problems.  I control my Type Two Diabetes with diet. 

So healing is possible, and that rather quickly, when the body is given the building blocks (vitamins and minerals and essential nutrients) and care it needs.  

Best wishes for you on your journey.

[Posterboy]

19 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

Once I got the stumbling blocks out of the way and started the Autoimmune Paleo Diet, I felt better within weeks. 

It's hard to compare because some people don't have active Celiac Disease very long before it's identified.  Others have spent years with active undiagnosed Celiac Disease draining their health for decades.  

I'm one of those oldies that thought certain symptoms were "normal," at least for my family.  Little did I realize then that they had Celiac symptoms, too, because it's genetic.  

By my mid thirties, I had been prescribed lots of medications to treat worsening symptoms of Celiac and that cascade of health problems.  These medications caused problems for several reasons.  

Some medications I was prescribed were sulfa drugs.  I have a hypersensitivity reaction to sulfa drugs.  My doctor didn't believe in sulfa drug allergy and berated me.  Type Four Hypersensitivity reactions are a real thing. It can occur in Celiac Disease.

Some medications I was prescribed have the side effect of depleting thiamine (metformin and a thiazide diuretic, beta blocker for high blood pressure).  My doctor was ignorant of this and offered no adjunct thiamine supplementation.  When asked about additional worsening symptoms, my doctor accused me of making stuff up and stormed out of the exam room.  Other doctors asked if I drank alcohol.  When I answered negatively, they said I was a hypochondriac and walked away.  They had missed diagnosing Wernicke's Encephalopathy (thiamine deficiency).  Wernicke's does occur outside of alcoholism in nutritional malabsorption associated with Celiac Disease. Another doctor missed Pellagra (Niacin deficiency).  I begged one doctor to test for deficiencies.  He adamantly refused saying "I can't make money prescribing vitamins!" 

So it was up to me.  I'd lost all faith in the medical profession.

So I researched, recognized vitamin deficiencies, corrected them and here I am, sharing what I've learned. 

Knitty Kitty,

You really should make a blog post out of "your story"....

It is VERY Inspiring!

I had a Sulfa drug reaction too!  Other people need to know these things!

Posterboy,

[Posterboy]

Knitty Kitty,

I came across some Thiamine research I thought you would enjoy.

Entitled "Mechanisms of thiamine deficiency in chronic alcoholism"

It explains how Thiamine is absorbed in BiPhasic way....either as active or passive transport....

It explains well why you have to "Saturate" the channel before your body can absorb Thiamine again...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6254354/

Quoting the abstract for the other's who might come across this thread...I think you already understand these things...

Abstract

"In the United States and other developed countries thiamin deficiency is often related to chronic alcoholism. A number of mechanisms may be involved in the pathogenesis of thiamin deficiency in the alcoholic population. An important cause is inadequate intake of thiamin. Moreover, there may be decreased converstion of thiamin to the active coenzyme, reduced hepatic storage of the vitamin in patients with fatty metamorphosis, ethanol inhibition of intestinal thiamin transport, and impaired thiamin absorption secondary to other states of nutritional deficiency. The present discussion focuses on the mechanism of ethanol-related thiamin malabsorption. Under normal conditions thiamin transport in animals and humans is biphasic. At low or physiological thiamin concentrations, transport is a saturable, carrier-mediated, active process; but at higher concentrations, the transport of thiamin is predominantly passive. Ethanol reduces the rate of intestinal absorption and the net transmural flux of thiamin. Furthermore, ethanol inhibits only the active and not the passive component of thiamin transport by impeding the cellular exit of thiamin across the basolateral or serosal membrane. The impairment of thiamin movement out of the enterocyte correlates with a fall in the activity of Na-K ATPase. Bound to the basolateral membrane, Na-K ATPase is believed to be involved in the kinetics of active transport. Ethanol also increases the fluidity of enterocyte brush border and basolateral membranes. Since ethanol increases membrane fluidity it is possible that tahe impairment of thiamin transport and the diminution of Na-K ATPase activity may be related, at least partly, to a physical perturbation of the enterocyte membrane."

Also because Magnesium is a Co-factor for Thiamine...

We see from this research that by taking Magnesium we can treat a Thiamine deficiency.

Entitled "Thiamine refractory Wernickes encephalopathy reversed with magnesium therapy"

https://casereports.bmj.com/content/2016/bcr-2016-218046

The reverse is true a Magnesium deficiency will a Thiamine deficiency triggering Wenickes Encephalopathy aka WE.

See this research about it...

Entitled "Wernicke's encephalopathy induced by magnesium depletion"

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(99)00182-8/fulltext#:~:text=Many cases of Wernicke's encephalopathy may also have,lead to Mg depletion%3B Magnesium in clinical practice

This research is 20+ years old and people have forgotten about these Vitamin/Mineral connections...

I call them a "Web of Life".

Dr. Lonsdale got it right.....Magnesium and Thiamine are the "Keys to Health" at least in part...

See his research about it...

Entitled "Thiamine and magnesium deficiencies: keys to disease"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25542071/

It is time this medical hypothesis is taught as medical fact....because this one Vitamin and one Mineral can reverse a lot of disease and suffering....

But what is as important is that these two Nutrients in time will lead to the breaking of the Kynurenine Pathway with is the true "Gateway" to systemic disease...

See this research about it

Entitled  "Kynurenine pathway metabolites in humans: disease and healthy States"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22084578/

The Kynurenine Pathway is what separate moderate disease from severe disease!

It is what triggers someone from going from Beri Beri (Thiamine Deficiency) and Pellagra Sine Pellagra (Riboflavin deficiency) to Pellagra (Niacin deficiency).

It is why some Celiac's develop DH and other's do not....once this pathway breaks....systemic disease follows!

It is all inflammation....but it unchecked inflammation when the Kynurenine Pathway breaks down!

I wrote a Posterboy blog posts about these connections if you have not read it....

It unifies these Vitamin/Mineral deficiencies in a "Inflammation Model for Sickness".

Here it is if any other readers want to read it....so you won't have to search for it...

These are ALL connected conditions.....beginning with a Magnesium deficiency, leading to a Thiamine deficiency (thinning our Villi) leading to Pellagra Sine Pellagra (Riboflavin deficiency) and finally to Pellagra in those who get low  in Tryptophan or low in Protein in their diet...

Otherwise we can synthesis enough Niacin from tryptophan to in most cases keep Pellagra from developing....the rare exception is usually if someone's diet is low in proteins like Vegans...

See this British Medical Journal article about these connections...

Entitled "Recognising the return of nutritional deficiencies: a modern pellagra puzzle"

https://casereports.bmj.com/content/11/1/e227454

But if the Kynurenine Pathway breaks then Celiac's will develop DH....other wise it only Beri Beri and Pellagra Sine Pellagra that develops!

It begins there because we know Low Thiamine levels leads to Thin Villi in Animals...

Citing original research here

Entitled "Effect of dietary thiamine deficiency on intestinal functions in rats"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6465054/

This explains a Lactose allergy too!

For others who want to read more about how Low Thiamine Levels leads to Thin Villi please read this article.

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advice.

Keep up your good work on an unrecognized Thiamine deficiency in GI sufferers!

Maybe with your continuing your hard work on the topic you can eventually "Awaken" others to this Vitamin (B-1 aka Thiamine) deficiency  going undiagnosed/misdiagnosed in Celiacs.

https://awaken.com/2021/02/the-overlooked-vitamin-that-improves-autoimmune-disease-and-autonomic-dysfunction/

Again, I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advice.

2 Timothy 2: 7 “Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things” this included.

Posterboy by the Grace of God,

[Posterboy]

Knitty Kitty,

I came across research on Thiamine that I thought you would enjoy.

Entitled "The Effect of Benfotiamine on High Sensitivity-CRP (hs-CRP) Level In Patients with Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus"

IE the damage caused by high C reactive proteins can be controlled by Benfotiamine in Type 2 Diabetics.

https://professional.diabetes.org/abstract/effect-benfotiamine-high-sensitivity-crp-hs-crp-level-patients-type-2-diabetes-mellitus

It is amazing how much suffering could be avoided if more people knew about the Power of Magnesium and Thiamine to  heal all kinds of medical problems.

The same research has been found to be true for Magnesium as well!

Entitled "Relationship between serum magnesium levels and C-reactive protein concentration, in non-diabetic, non-hypertensive obese subjects"

https://www.nature.com/articles/0801954

This research is 15 to 20 year often and still people are still suffering from conditions that can be treated with a Vitamin (Thiamine) and Mineral (Magnesium) because doctor's don't know these connections.

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advice.

I hope you are well.....I haven't seen you on the forum in a while.

I am slowly focusing on the Spiritual issues in my life instead of the forum....

I feel like I have helped about all I can.

2 Tim 2:2 "And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men (and woman), who shall be able to teach others also."

I have participated on the forum specifically to tell others, the Lord being my help, how I h helped my GI problems.....by treating my Vitamin deficiencies first......but IT has been too hard I fear for most people to understand it.

As the saying goes "Sharing is Caring"

As always 2 Timothy 2: 7 “Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things” this included.

Stay well!

Posterboy,