Celiac.com Sponsor (A1):

Celiac.com Sponsor (A1-m):

  • You've found your Celiac Tribe! Join our like-minded, private community and share your story, get encouragement and connect with others.


    • Sign In
    • Sign Up
knitty kitty

Thiamine Thiamine Thiamine

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Thiamine Use by Doctors in Hospital and

Interesting articles about Thiamine


Neurological, Psychiatric, and Biochemical Aspects of Thiamine Deficiency in Children and Adults



Shoshin Beriberi in Critically-Ill patients: case series



Wernicke's encephalopathy because of pancreatitis in a young boy.




Thiamine and Heart Failure



Thiamin deficiency and heart failure: the current knowledge and gaps in literature.


And a different follow-up article...

Thiamine supplementation for the treatment of heart failure: a review of the literature.



Thiamine and Hashimoto's thyroiditis: a report of three cases.



Thiamine deficiency and beriberi features in a patient with hyperemesis gravidarum.(Morning Sickness)



Thiamine and fatigue in inflammatory bowel diseases: an open-label pilot study.



High-dose thiamine improves fatigue after stroke: a report of three cases.  (All normal levels in tests)



Acute Bilateral Deafness as the First Symptom of Wernicke Encephalopathy



Achlorhydria is associated with thiamine deficiency in the setting of bacterial overgrowth. 



Elevated Lactate Secondary to Gastrointestinal Beriberi



Nonalcoholic Thiamine-Related Encephalopathy (Wernicke-Korsakoff Syndrome) Among Inpatients With Cancer: A Series of 18 Cases



Thiamin. Fact Sheet for Health Professionals





Neurological manifestations, diagnosis, and treatment of celiac disease: A comprehensive review






Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):

Knitty Kitty,

That is a pretty good list to start with....we all  know there is more we could add....when ever one/someone makes a list....something is left off...

I found this Slideshow recently that might be easier for a causal observer to follow....

I will give a "key" to highlight certain slides t hat might be helpful to someone.... approx. 40 slides in all..

 Here is slides to "key" on from notes that I made for myself so whomever might find this thread can quickly review it...

see slide 14 Magnesium is needed by the body to utilize Thiamine...

see slide 16 ….thiamine is needed for the metabolism of tryptophan…. Meaning being low in thiamine…(and why Vegans  (can/do) develop Pellagra)...and being free of meat....eliminates a good source of tryptophan from their diet(s)...and if we are too low in thiamine....we can no longer synthesize it (Niacin) from our "food stuffs"...


it locks up the mean’s to produce Niacin thus contributing in time to a Pellagra diagnosis….but the Thiamine Deficiency happens FIRST

see slide 33 ….processed foods high in sulfite content destroys thiamine content of foods

see slide 36 Celiac sprue and malabsorption syndrome is a cause of thiamine deficiency…
Dry Beri Beri (occurs from starvation)

See slide 28 Wet Beri (heart, GI problems) occurs from high calorie malnutrition…Pedal Edema are a good self test…

I hope this is helpful but It is not medical advise.

May it help the next person in line...it forms at the rear....wish I had know this years ago!

Thank you for sharing these resources Knittt Kitity so the next person can be helped the way you were.


Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

To All,

I wanted to add this studied I just came across.....Maybe it will help someone else.

Here is the Abstract  entitled "Metabolic Benefits of Six-month Thiamine Supplementation in Patients With and Without Diabetes Mellitus Type 2." The study shows how taking Thiamine can  help elevated Cholesterol levels.


quoting from the abstract...

"In all groups, there was a significant decrease in total cholesterol after three months (p = 0.03) as well as in HDL cholesterol after six months of thiamine supplementation (p = 0.009). Significant improvements were also observed in the mean serum levels of creatinine (p = 0.001), as well as thiamine and its derivatives in both serum and urinary levels across follow-up visits."

Meaning in those with and without diabetes taking thiamine helped elevated Cholesterol levels....and for Diabetics the kidney Creatine levels went down....and is what I experienced from taking Thiamine....

I just didn't know there was a study proving this relationship at the time....I only know my complicated (high Creatine levels) got better when taking Thiamine....and neither did the doctor's are at least they didn't mention it  or believe it....because the front line medicine is still statins to this day for elevated cholesterol levels...

Sadly this research is 5+ years old and there is still no move away from statins (a  medicine) to realize a Vitamin deficiency can be causing these symptoms...

The Fat Soluble Benfotiamine is a highly absorbible form that can be found in the diabetic section....but apparently even if your not diabetic yet it can help your elevated cholesterol levels and get off statins for good.

One of the classic symptom's of  Wet Beri Beri is an enlarged heart....a symptom the doctor's told me about ....but couldn't tell me what to do about it....now my heart is healthy.

I hope this is helpful but it is  not medical advise.


Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Important studies


A microarray screen for novel candidate genes in coeliac disease pathogenesis

"Downregulation of the transmembrane 4 superfamily member 4 gene (TM4SF4), which by real time RT-PCR turned out to be down-regulated eightfold "




Association of TM4SF4 with the human thiamine transporter-2 in intestinal epithelial cells

"These results show for the first time that the accessory protein TM4SF4 interacts with hTHTR-2 and influences the physiological function of the thiamine transporter."



Celiac genes and thiamine transporter link???

Double check these for me!


Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Knitty Kitty,

You have done good research as usual.

I have found similar research....I think your first research makes a good case that "other" genes are involved in Celiac disease.....some on this forum have had other genes and still received a Celiac diagnosis....though after many frustrating years...of being denied one....because the "genes' didn't fit one of two common types...

Concerning the 2nd one on Thiamine....it makes sense that B-Vitamins would interact with our genes....they are involved in single carbon transfers.....thiamine transporters are responsible for transporting thiamine into our cells.....any break down in this system would require higher amounts of the Vitamin to accomplish the same effect....much like Insulin resistance diabetics....we don't say it is a genetic disease....

It is an interaction with nutrition and our environment and in type II diabetics it effects our genes...

Here is another study about thiamine becoming deficient due to genetic/environment interplay...


"Gene-environment interactions in wet beriberi: effects of thiamine depletion in CD36-defect rats"

This gene-environment interaction is a two way street....

Dr. Lonsdale concluded the same thing in his work with Thiamine...


where he said it was "Genetic risk coupled with malnutrition" that are the "Keys to disease".

I think we have found out what is happening....now it will just take doctor's looking for these "Keys" to prove it....

It is what motivated me to write this article for Celiac.com which Scott Adams graciously featured...

Because the Science say's when you get low in Thiamine our body tissues/thins and then leaks...

It is the form of "Wet Beri Beri" that causes fluid in our tissues like the lungs and legs....and Pleural Effusions around the heart....they (our) vessels leak when we get too low in Thiamine...

This heathline article summarizes it well.....we first develop Low Albumin levels when/as our Thiammine levels become to look to keep our vessels from leaking...this should be a serious sign to doctor's that we are getting low in Thiamine.....I know I had these symptom's...


If it happens in Celiac disease....it is called a "Celiac Crisis"....


But they don't think in terms of "nutrition" as a cause of disease in the "West"

The British Journal of Nutrition concluded the same thing about a Thiamine deficiency in the elderly as a risk factor for Dementia....


But I know you understand this....this is for other's that might still be suffering with a Thiamine deficiency going undiagnosed like we did and who could better after supplementation.

Benfotiamine is a readily available fat soluble form of B-1 found in the diabetic section that is well absorbed for others who might read this .....that can help many of the undiagnosed symptom's today of a thiamine deficiency no longer recognized in Western medicine.  Thiamine works best when taken with a well absorbed Magnesium supplement like Magnesium Citrate with meals or Magnesium Glycinate anytime.

Benfotiamine 2 to 3 times with  Magnesium Citrate with meals usually shows improvement in symptom's in one month and a sustained improvement in symptom's in 2 to 3 months.

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.


Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Knitty Kitty et al,

Here is another article  on Thiamine that I just came across that might help anybody else who is following this thread or who might come across it on the internet...about mouth ulcers....entitled

"Recurrent aphthous stomatitis (RAS) and thiamine deficiency"


This information is 20+ years old and the doctor's don't know to look for or recognize a Vitamin deficiency when it shows up "with so many faces"....they easily get confused....I know I was for years!


Again Benfotiamine is the easily found and highly absorbed found in most diabetic sections...

It helps diabetic and non diabetics alike...

See this research entitled "Metabolic Benefits of Six-month Thiamine Supplementation in Patients With and Without Diabetes Mellitus Type 2"


People's who's Cholesterol levels were elevated were helped with Thiamine supplementation...and their Creatine levels improved too!

This was my experience as well....after taking Thiamine my elevated Creatine levels got better!

This article by the Frustrate Pharmacist explains it well.


I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.


Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thiamin Status During the Third Trimester of Pregnancy and Its Influence on Thiamin Concentrations in Transition and Mature Breast Milk



Thiamin Status During Pregnancy



More than just morning sickness



Thiamine and Hashimoto's Thyroiditis: A Report of Three Cases




The Role of Vitamins and Minerals in Psychiatry



Optic neuropathy from thiamine deficiency in a patient with ulcerative colitis



Vestibular signs of thiamine deficiency during the early phase of suspected Wernicke encephalopathy




Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was on the AutoImmune Paleo Protocol diet (which promotes intestinal healing) and decided to expand my diet to include basmati rice and quinoa.  I got sick with headaches and upset tummy.  So, I'd go back to the AIP diet and after a few days, I'd feel a bit better. 

I did some investigation to find out why this was happening.  I learned about "high calorie malnutrition" which is eating too many carbohydrates without enough Thiamine, vitamin B1, at the same time.  Thiamine is needed to turn carbohydrates into energy.  

I learned that the AIP diet can be deficient in thiamine.  I was not getting enough thiamine from the food choices I made that were allowed on the AIP diet.  

I am also a type two diabetic who controls blood sugar levels through diet.  I recognized that the headaches after eating more carbs was due to high blood sugar levels.  My blood glucose meter confirmed this.  High blood sugar levels can happen even if you are not diabetic.  

I believe when I tried to eat lots of carbohydrates, I suffered from this high calorie malnutrition.  I did not have enough thiamine to process the sudden increase in carbohydrates.  I began supplementing with thiamine and have corrected that deficiency.  I can now eat additional carbohydrates like rice chex and quinoa and basmati rice without a problem.  

Be aware that while gluten containing products are required by law to be fortified with vitamins and minerals, no such requirements are made on their gluten free counterparts.

Checking for and correcting vitamin and mineral deficiencies in newly diagnosed Celiacs is part of follow up care.  The damage to the intestines caused by celiac disease causes an inability to absorb the proper amounts of vitamins and minerals.  You may want to discuss vitamin and mineral deficiencies with your doctor.  

This is not medical advice.  I am relating what happened with me.  

Here's some studies about high calorie malnutrition that I found helpful.

The Malnutrition of Obesity: Micronutrient Deficiencies That Promote Diabetes

"Thiamine is virtually absent in food products containing refined carbohydrates such as milled rice and simple sugars, yet the metabolism of these foods requires relatively high amounts of thiamine and may lead to depletion [74]. In subjects on thiamine deficient diets, total body thiamine stores can be depleted within 2-3 weeks [74]."



Thiamin(e): The Spark of Life

"High calorie malnutrition, due to excessive ingestion of simple carbohydrates, is widely encountered in the U.S.A. today. Thiamin deficiency is commonly associated with this, largely because of its cofactor status in the metabolism of glucose."



Neurological, Psychiatric, and Biochemical Aspects of Thiamine Deficiency in Children and Adults

"Despite the availability of dietary thiamine in wealthy countries, thiamine deficiency represents an important and usually overlooked issue. In developed countries, the predominant use of industrial food processing often depletes thiamine content along with other vitamins and nutrients. An increased consumption of processed food in the form of simple carbohydrates, not supplemented with adequate levels of thiamine, has been named “high calorie malnutrition” (7, 8). Thus, despite the caloric density, the diet is often of poor nutrition quality and does not meet recommended dietary guidelines for micronutrient intake, making this an at-risk population for micronutrient malnutrition (8). ...This condition highlights the fine balance between adequate caloric intake and balanced nutritional diet. As thiamine is a key factor in the metabolism of glucose, an increased carbohydrate intake will proportionally increase thiamine’s dietary demand (a minimum of 0.33 mg per 1,000 kcal) (1). Thus, rather than focusing on thiamine’s RDA, it is critical to match its intake with carbohydrate consumption as well as total caloric intake."




Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Knitty Kitty,

Here are more Thiamine links of associated conditions that doctor's don't know today are associated with a Thiamine Deficiency.

"Vestibular (Inner Ear) Signs of Thiamine Deficiency During the Early Phase of Suspected Wernicke Encephalopathy"


"Visual Loss and Optic Nerve Head Swelling in Thiamine Deficiency Without Prolonged Dietary Deficiency"


"Thiamine deficient Optic Neuropathy Associated With Wernicke's Encephalopathy in Patients With Chronic Diarrhea"


"Early recognition of thiamine deficiency: ocular motor deficits in a patient with nutritional deprivation due to persistent antibiotic-related nausea"


"The Spectrum of Vestibular and Ocular Motor Abnormalities in Thiamine Deficiency"


And the Annals of Internal Medicine recently concluded

"Eye movement (s) may be the earliest warning sign of a potentially dangerous thiamine deficiency" like nystagmus, a vision condition in which the eyes make repetitive, uncontrolled movements.


they concluded quoting

"According to the researcher, a careful ocular motor and vestibular examination may enable a diagnosis of thiamine deficiency before a patient develops dangerous manifestations of a thiamine deficiency."

I hope this is helpful to the next person who might still be suffering the earliest signs of an (Occult) IE hidden thiamine deficiency (before Beri Beri develops)....and obvious signs have not presented themselves yet....

Because our "Western" eyes cant' see a Thiamine deficiency from High Calorie Malnutrition...

Thank you Dr. Londsdale for all the good work you have done and to opening  our eyes to high calorie malnutrition and all the wonderful articles you have published on the Hormones Matter website.

Here is two articles from the Hormones Matter website where Dr. Lonsdale publishes his Case reports of how many patients that come to his office....are still suffering from a Thiamine deficiency that get better after a few months of supplementation that other doctor's have missed for years....as they did in my case...


I had low Albumin levels, Chronic Fatigue, Creatine in kidneys, and at one time Low Potassium Levels...

An almost perfect definition of the "Refeeding Syndrome" missed in the 50 percent of those who's trigger is Malnutrition commonly seen in Celiac's going undiagnosed today as sign of a Thiamine deficiency.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322120#who-is-at-risk  (Of Refeeding Syndrome)



That got better after supplementing with Benfotiamine and Magnesium Glycinate/Magnesium Citrate....

I hope this helps the next person in line who might read this....

I can only tell  you it helped me.

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.


Knitty Kitty thank you for starting this thread!  I hope it helps many people some day!

Oh and when you get low in Thiamine it can thin your villi too!

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Elevated liver enzymes and thiamine deficiency

My doctor accused me of lying about drinking, but I do not drink alcohol. I have never been able to tolerate it.

It turned out to be Thiamine Deficiency! 

Alcohol consumption can cause thiamine deficiency because alcohol inhibits thiamine absorption in the intestines.  Abnormal liver enzymes occurs in alcoholism.

That's why a doctor may ask if you drink alcohol.   A thiamine deficiency will cause abnormal liver enzymes similar to those in alcoholism.

You've got Celiac Disease which causes malabsorption which results in vitamin deficiencies.  The Gluten free diet is deficient or low in certain vitamins and minerals.  The longer you're on the gluten free diet, the more likely you can develop nutritional deficiencies.

Thiamine is a water soluble B vitamin (B 1 in the group of eight essential B vitamins).  Thiamine is needed by every cell in your body to provide energy and enzymes used in body functions.

You can have a chronic low level of thiamine that worsens over time.  As time goes on and your thiamine level gets lower, your body can't function as well and health problems begin to manifest.

Your body doesn't store Thiamine for very long.  You can use up your thiamine stores in as little as nine days to two weeks.  You need more thiamine when under stress, both physical stress like when you're ill and emotional stress, if you are physically active, live in hot climate, have a desk job that requires lots of thinking (your brain needs energy from thiamine to think - that's why you can feel exhausted after sitting at a desk all day), and when you eat a lot of carbohydrates.  

If you've been eating a lot of carbohydrates, you can become low in thiamine because so much thiamine is needed to convert those carbohydrates into energy.  Gluten free versions of cookies and processed snacks are not required to be enriched with vitamins lost in processing like the gluten containing ones are.  

High dose thiamine (300 mg thiamine a day) is needed to replenish your thiamine.  Refer your doctor to the book by Dr. Derrick Lonsdale and Dr. Chandler Marrs entitled "Thiamine Deficiency Disease, Dyautonomia and High Calorie Malnutrition".  You can read more about the effects of thiamine deficiency on Dr. Marrs' website www.hormonesmatter.com.

Here's an article on nutrient deficiencies in Celiac Disease on a gluten free diet...


Here's an article about liver enzymes in alcoholism which explains how thiamine works...


Your doctor needs to think outside the box.  Thiamine deficiency does not only occur in alcoholism.  The deficiency can occur in Celiac Disease.  I know.  I lived through it.  

Please have your doctor test for thiamine deficiency using the erythrocyte transketolase test.  

Keep us updated on your progress.

Hope this helps!

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

I took regular B-Complex vitamins and didn't feel much different.  I kept researching and found that when you have a deficiency of thiamine, the thiamine transporters that help thiamine get into the cells turn off and don't function.  In order to get the Thiamine transporters to turn back on, you have to flood the body with thiamine so thiamine can "force" its way into the cells. 

So I started taking high doses of thiamine:  300 mg or 3 grams of thiamine a day.  I took 100 mg tablets of thiamine (thiamine HCl, thiamine hydrochloride) with each meal.  And I got immediate improvement!  I did more research and found Dr. Lonsdale and Dr. Marrs' book "Thiamine Deficiency Disease, Dysautonomia, and High Calorie Malnutrition" and their website www.hormonesmatter.com, which  has much information there as in the book.  They recommend taking the form of thiamine called Allithiamine.  (It's made from garlic from the Allum family.)  It's a form that crosses the blood-brain barrier because it is fat soluble.  I got even more improvement. 

Thiamine needs riboflavin (B2) and niacin (B3) and pyridoxine (B6) and omega 3 fats and vitamin C and magnesium to work best.  The difference is amazing!  I feel so much better now, more energetic, no more brain fog.  My diabetes is better controlled and I don't take medication for it anymore, just low carbohydrate AutoImmune Paleo diet.

Here's an article on high dose thiamine.  It's used in Alzheimer's disease, too.  These used injections of thiamine, but the over the counter thiamine supplements and allithiamine available without prescription works just as well.  It may take several months to see the full benefits.  The more deficient you are the quicker you see benefits.  I'm still seeing improvement several months in.  


Discuss this with your doctor.  My doctors totally dismissed the possibility of vitamin deficiencies.  One said he would not check for vitamin deficiencies because he could not make any money from vitamins.  He promptly wrote me five prescriptions to relieve (cover up) the symptoms.  I researched and found my own answers.  I'm a microbiologist, not a doctor, so discuss supplementing with your doctor.  Doctors need to learn about thiamine supplementation for more health problems.  Thiamine and Vitamin C is being given to Covd patients on respirators to help them survive.  Thiamine can help with so much more!

I have wanted to visit your part of the world and see the pyramid for many years!  Just when I start planning a trip Covid hit.  Send us a postcard! 😸

Keep us posted on your progress and your sister's, too.  

Best wishes for your journey to health!

Knitty Kitty

P.S.  forgot this article



Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

And another article.....

"The Effects of Thiamine Tetrahydrofurfuryl Disulfide on Physiological Adaption and Exercise Performance Improvement"


And another.....

"Thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide promotes voluntary activity through dopaminergic activation in the medial prefrontal cortex"


Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now