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Michael Fowler

Potatoes Are The Problem!

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Dear Maggi,

Don't cry...or I will. I cannot tell you what you can and cannot eat, I can say that after eliminating nightshades I can eat everything else with joy and ease. Nightshades cause me problems with gluten and dairy. Sweet potatoes are about the best food you can eat, hopefully you can eat those, they are not part of the nightshade family.

Nightshades caused me such harm that I had malnurishment, but now I can eat everything, all dairy, wheat, food coloring(yuck), ranch dressing. etc.. I do avoid deep fat fried food, because it is fatting.

I am quickly working a second book, but for now look into sweet potatoes, you can may sweet potato (fries, pies, mashed, baked, kabobs, etc.) a true super food.

Michael Fowler

I think I may have gotten lost...do you have problems with gluten? If so, how can you eat wheat?

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Hi all,

I just posted over in the "leaky gut and other food intolerances" section but it looks like here's the thread about oxalates and nightshades.

I'm trying to find resources about this oxalate and nightshade issue.

My experience has been very similar it sounds like. I went gluten-free and DF a year ago. Huge improvement for a few months and then return of symptoms. Then I went soy free and that seemed to do it for a few weeks. Then not.

I have noticed that potatoes and peppers especially hurt my gut, so I try to go low on those.

I'm on my way through a total GI workup -- dozens of stool samples and a colonoscopy/endoscopy on Oct 10 -- for which I have been eating "everything" in the last few weeks. I wasn't doing that great gluten-free and DF and SF, so adding the gluten back hasn't changed things much.

BUT, seeing this mention of oxalates has me thinking. I looked at the list of high oxalate food and it's basically what I've been living on: seeds/nuts, carrots, grapes, berries, black tea, chocolate, etc etc.

Have you all seen the yahoo thread of people doing a semi-organized experiment on a low oxalate diet for autism spectrum stuff?

I wonder if it wouldn't be good to start an oxalate thread here so we can share our experiences more systematically as they relate to gut problems? There was a reference to some of the celiac.com folks trying it. Can we hear more about why and how it's going?

Does anyone have references to offer to learn more about this oxalate issue?

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Hi all,

I just posted over in the "leaky gut and other food intolerances" section but it looks like here's the thread about oxalates and nightshades.

I'm trying to find resources about this oxalate and nightshade issue.

My experience has been very similar it sounds like. I went gluten-free and DF a year ago. Huge improvement for a few months and then return of symptoms. Then I went soy free and that seemed to do it for a few weeks. Then not.

I have noticed that potatoes and peppers especially hurt my gut, so I try to go low on those.

I'm on my way through a total GI workup -- dozens of stool samples and a colonoscopy/endoscopy on Oct 10 -- for which I have been eating "everything" in the last few weeks. I wasn't doing that great gluten-free and DF and SF, so adding the gluten back hasn't changed things much.

BUT, seeing this mention of oxalates has me thinking. I looked at the list of high oxalate food and it's basically what I've been living on: seeds/nuts, carrots, grapes, berries, black tea, chocolate, etc etc.

Have you all seen the yahoo thread of people doing a semi-organized experiment on a low oxalate diet for autism spectrum stuff?

I wonder if it wouldn't be good to start an oxalate thread here so we can share our experiences more systematically as they relate to gut problems? There was a reference to some of the celiac.com folks trying it. Can we hear more about why and how it's going?

Does anyone have references to offer to learn more about this oxalate issue?

DID YOU GOT TO MICHAEL'S PROFILE AND GET THE NAME OF HIS BOOK?

ALSO I PUT A LINK ON THIS THREAD ABOUT THE OXALATE DIET ..CK THAT

I'LL SEE IF I CAN FIND THAT THREAD FOR YOU

JUDY

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OK WILL PROBABLY GET IN TROUBLE FOR THIS.

I CAN'T FIND THE LINK IN THE C.COM SEARCH.

I CAN'T EVER USE THAT THING.

THIS IS WHAT PART OF IT WAS ABOUT.

I WAS ON A NOTIFICATION EMAIL ALERT BUT IT'S GONE NOW...OY

HOPE THIS WILL HELP

IF ANYONE CAN JUST POST THAT THREAD, THERE WERE PROBABLY MORE RESPONCES THAN THIS ONE.

JUDY IN PHILLY

Subject: here is the oxolate thread ..maybe you can click on the ''view this topic'' looks like a new option

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Gluten-Free Celiac Disease Forum at Celiac.com (Home) _ Other Food Intolerance and Leaky Gut Issues _ Oxalates And Olive Oil

Posted by: newlyfree Aug 2 2007, 02:44 PM

Hey all - somewhat off-topic, but my sister has just had her 3rd kidney stone in as many years, and her docs have recommended a low-oxalate diet... I got her list of the high/low oxalate foods in advance of her upcoming visit (and was surprised to see all of my food intolerances (soy, spinach, celery, carrots and wheat) on the high-oxalate list! But I digress...)

I'm wondering - I usually cook with olive oil but olives are on the high-oxalate list. Anyone know if the oxalates make it into the oil, or if they're just contained in the flesh of the olives? She likes to have my homemade pesto on rice pasta when she visits, and I don't want to make her sick.

Posted by: tarnalberry Aug 3 2007, 09:50 PM

http://www.branwen.com/rowan/oxalate.htm is usually a great low-oxalate resource, but doesn't list olives specifically, just that vegetable oils are low-oxalate.

BTW, the vulvar pain foundation has a low-oxalate cookbook (http://www.vulvarpainfoundation.org/vpfcookbook.htm) that she might find helpful. (The low-oxalate diet is also sometimes used for women with vulvodynia.)

Posted by: Judyin Philly Aug 3 2007, 10:25 PM

So glad I found this thread.

Several of us are finding the in addition to gluten-free, df, soy free...and on and on... that the limiting of high oxalate foods help the fibro symptoms.

I hope others pop in on this thread.

good luck..i use olive oil so gald to watch this info come in.

Judy

Posted by: newlyfree Aug 4 2007, 04:36 PM

Good to know about the cookbook!

I've ordered so many cookbooks since I started gluten-free (and some quite regrettably) - I'm a little wary of them. Anyone out there use this book? Have you liked the recipes?

Thanks!

Posted by: newlyfree Aug 7 2007, 07:00 PM

bumping in case anyone has an answer...

Posted by: tarnalberry Aug 7 2007, 08:24 PM

sorry, I've been a bit busy with a hike-a-thon.

I found the cookbook to be... eh. but I'm a person who prefers to cook my own things from scratch anyway, and it's not the most convenient. it's helpful for someone who *needs* to rely on a cookbook, and eats more 'standard american food' fair, but it wasn't fab for me.

Posted by: Judyin Philly Aug 7 2007, 08:30 PM

Tiffany, if you have the cook book, did it say anything about using or not using the olive oil?

judy

Posted by: tarnalberry Aug 7 2007, 09:18 PM

QUOTE(Judyin Philly @ Aug 7 2007, 05:30 PM)

Tiffany, if you have the cook book, did it say anything about using or not using the olive oil?

judy

It does indeed use olive oil.

Another option would be avocado oil, though that is expensive.

Posted by: Judyin Philly Aug 7 2007, 10:13 PM

thanks Tiffany,, guess that answers NEWLYFREE's question..glad it's ok as it's what I only use now.

so appreciate it.

have you been doing the non oxalate diet?

love that site you mentioned. I think it's the best one out there.

I've been having some issues with UI and my pt was discussing this diet with me.

love to pm you about it

ok?

Judy

Posted by: tarnalberry Aug 7 2007, 11:34 PM

I tried the low-oxalate diet for a little while for vulvar vestibulitis. It didn't help the pain, and I *HATED* the diet. Let me rephrase,

I really farkin' HATED it!.

Ahem.

No garbanzo beans, almonds, chocolate, spinach, sweet potatoes, popcorn, cinnamon, ginger, blackberries, strawberries, raspberries, mint tea, green tea, or soy sauce? YARGH! And oh, so they say I can have ice cream and cheese and yogurt? But I can't. So blah! In comparison, gluten free and dairy free and soy very-light is a snap, really.

If it had helped, I would have learned to live with it, of course, but eliminating dozens of foods is harder than five, especially when so many of my favorites (even including the ones I already can't have) are on that list. It is doable, and it's helpful if you can have dairy if you want to be able to eat out as well.

PM away! It was a while ago I did it, however.

Posted by: Judyin Philly Aug 7 2007, 11:44 PM

QUOTE(tarnalberry @ Aug 7 2007, 11:34 PM)

I I really farkin' HATED it!.

Ahem.

I HEAR YOU LOUD AND CLEAR............ME TOO

MAN ALL MY FOODS THAT I LIKED THAT WERE LEFT...POTATOES, TOMATOS, GREEN PEPPERS,----&---OF COURSE ALL THE FRIGGING FOODS ON YOUR LIST.

WILL PM TOMORROW AS I'M TO PO'd to write tonight

No garbanzo beans, almonds, chocolate, spinach, sweet potatoes, popcorn, cinnamon, ginger, blackberries, strawberries, raspberries, mint tea, green tea, or soy sauce? YARGH! And oh, so they say I can have ice cream and cheese and yogurt? But I can't. So blah! In comparison, gluten free and dairy free and soy very-light is a snap, really.

If it had helped, I would have learned to live with it, of course, but eliminating dozens of foods is harder than five, especially when so many of my favorites (even including the ones I already can't have) are on that list. It is doable, and it's helpful if you can have dairy if you want to be able to eat out as well.

PM away! It was a while ago I did it, however.

Posted by: newlyfree Aug 8 2007, 01:41 PM

Thanks for checking the book - glad to know we're good to go on the olive oil, and after that review I won't have to waste $45 on the cookbook

Sorry to hear it didn't help you, either. It's awful to have to avoid so many foods and still not feel better

Posted by: Judyin Philly Aug 8 2007, 03:31 PM

QUOTE(newlyfree @ Aug 8 2007, 01:41 PM)

Sorry to hear it didn't help you, either. It's awful to have to avoid so many foods and still not feel better

Newlyfree...

so you have celiac and no other intolerances?

you sister is on the low oxalate diet for kidney stones?

Tiffany-- you were on for other reasons and it did not help you?

Do any of you have Fibro?

I have a friend who is celiac, and she's gluten-free, soy, legumes, tapaico, dairy casein and a few more things i can't remember and has been experimenting with the no high oxalate foods.

The pain in her feet of --- walking on glass and her morning 'shuffle' has disapeared with this diet.

I have been trying to do it and man it is so hard but i did notice that the fibro pain was better.

imput anyone?

Judy

Posted by: newlyfree Aug 8 2007, 04:38 PM

QUOTE(Judyin Philly @ Aug 8 2007, 12:31 PM)

Newlyfree...

so you have celiac and no other intolerances?

you sister is on the low oxalate diet for kidney stones?

I do have problems soy, celery and spinach and a few other things, so I avoid them. I'm pretty sure I have 'leaky gut' problems from 10 years of undiagnosed celiac, so I'm trying to avoid all grains (except brown rice), heavy starches and sugars while I heal. Only been doing this for 4 months, and the first two months I was really making mistakes so probably 2 months gluten-free ;D

My sister decided to try a dietary solution for her kidney stones after my gluten-free diet helped me so much.

I don't have fibro, so can't speak to that at all, sorry

Posted by: Judyin Philly Aug 8 2007, 04:58 PM

QUOTE(newlyfree @ Aug 8 2007, 04:38 PM)

I don't have fibro, so can't speak to that at all, sorry

NOT TO WORRY SO GLAD YOU DO NOT.

I'm trying to keep this thread up there for my friend to find too

maybe some others with fibro will stumble in here.

good luck

Judy

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Thank you everyone!

Just went to the health food store and bought all the low oxalate and no nightshade and gluten free food I could find! I'll keep you posted. It's a lot of white food!

It would be really lovely if there were a regular place here where those of us trying the no nightshade and/or low oxalate diet could check in about our experiences. Don't you think?

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I think I may have gotten lost...do you have problems with gluten? If so, how can you eat wheat?

Yes, Manda I thought I had problems with wheat and dairy, and so did the doctors, so I ate lots of rye bread instead. But, now I do not have any problems with wheat or dairy, BECAUSE, I eliminated the nightshades. The nightshades are what caused my problems with wheat and dairy. So buy eliminating the nightshades you MAY eliminate your wheat and dairy problems, if you do not have true celiac's.

Try it. See what happens.

Your friend,

Michael

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HI MICHAEL...WELCOME BACK

THANKS FOR RE PHRASING YOUR POST..........IT WILL MAKE IT MORE CLEAR I THINK

HUGS

JUDY

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I can see everyone's point, but I really don't think nightshades affect all populations the same. You must understand that there are whole civilizations that had the potato as their staple. Even nowadays the potato is a huge staple in South America(where I live) and yet people don't seem to be affected by the other staple -- bread. Here in Chile, the staples are bread, rice and potatoes, and yet there seem to be fewer people with celiac disease. Perhaps it affects people of northern european extraction way more that it does people of South American amerindian populations, seeing as to how the latter have had thousands of years to develop a genetic tolerance to solanine.

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I was treated for nightshade veggies & have been eating them ever since with no problems.....

Mamaw,

What was the treatment for nightshade veggies?

Yellow Rose

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Thank you Michael for your informing posts. I have been diagnosed GI from gene indentification and symptoms but tested negative with the blood test. I figured out from my food diary that every time I ate potatoes I would be racked with pain at night and then spend time clinging to the loo. I have stopped eating potatoes and tomatoes for nearly three weeks and can now sleep at night without pain. I just tested my reaction with a packet of crisps and now are getting the cramps just 30 minutes later. Last week I had a very bad reaction after just eating a few fries, my heart slowed and I had problems breathing. Can you suffer an anaphylactic shock from nightshdes?

I have never been able to go near peppers or chilli, as I get migraines that last for days. I am hoping you are correct and that if I stay away from the nightshades I will heal. I use to think I had only an allergy to Capsaicin, a chemical in chilli that denatures the sensory nerves and leads to an almighty histamine release. This may be so but I don't think tomato or potato have this chemical. Do chilli's and peppers have solanine?

I am still being wary of the grains as I get respiratory problems from wheat so am about to try rye as an alternative. If this does the same may be I have the double whammy, that is GI and nightshade intolerance.

Hi Judy,

Celic's is a very real disease, but it can be exacerbated by nightshades. In fact nightshades may prevent an possibility of the body curing itself if that is possible. (that is only my guess) Solanine is a cell disruptor, that attacks the lining of the intestine. This is why so many people seem to have Celiac's but test false. Those with true Celiac's may find that a steady diet of nightshades only makes things worse, as many doctors, in fact some of the leading ones, recommend potatoes during more difficult times, as potatoes are allergy free, but they are toxic. My claim is not that nightshades cause or cure Celiac's but those who have true Celiac's should be aware of the effects of nightshades on the intestine, as they are in more danger that others.

I only cover nightshades, nothing about other oxalate foods. My focus was on the neurotoxins contianed in nightshades, solanine, nictoine, atropine, etc. In fact other oxalate foods might be getting a bad rap, due to being grouped with nightshades. Nightshades are the only staple food we eat that contain neurotoxins, they should be the first step in diagnoses. Nightshades are causing more problems than possible exacerbation with Celiacs, they are responsible for

* Arthritis

* Appendicitis

* Alzheimer's

* Birth Defects and Miscarriages

* Cancer

* Chronic Fatigue.

* Depression.

* Endocrine System Dysfunctions

* Eczema, Gout and Allergies

* Food Poisoning.

* Intestinal Disorders

* Liver Toxins

* Memory Loss.

* Mental Dysfunctions

* Mental Development and Schizophrenia.

* Migraine Headaches

* Overeating and Malnourishment

* Parkinson's Disease.

* Polio (remittent fever)

* Osteoporosis, Rickets, and Vitamin D

* Wheat and Dairy Allergies

Every single claim is backed up by studies, not my guesses. Every claim is footnoted so you can find the original studies and examine them.

"

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I too have been a misdiagnosed Celiac,I now avoid the nightshades & am feeling the best I have been in many years! I don't have any problems with gluten or other allergies now.

Hi,

I suffered from, pseudo-Celiac, for 35years. I had all of the symptoms, but tested negative. When I was a child Kaiser Hospital was going crazy trying to save my life, as I was suffering from malnourishment. When I was 5 years old I weighed 37lbs. This may not be true for everyone, but no one ever told me about nightshades (potatoes, tomatoes, peppers, and eggplant). Complete elimination of nightshades has cured me completely.

I would like to hear how many other have had the same success.

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I too have been a misdiagnosed Celiac,I now avoid the nightshades & am feeling the best I have been in many years! I don't have any problems with gluten or other allergies now.

Just to let you know...you are responding to a 4 year old post. Not likely the posters are stil active. Look around. We have had some recent discussions of nightshades.

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The variable is not the people so much but more the potato, it's treatment after harvesting is the primary cause of infinite variability of toxins.

Traditionally, we dug it up, cooked it, and ate it. The Irish potatoes had low natural Glycoalkaloid levels, but that is not what the farmers prefer to grow...

Now we dig it up, store it, fumigate it with a sprout inhibitor (to store it longer), transport it (government subsidies to export play a big role here), wash it, stick it under bright lights in a supermarket (sunshine doubles the Glycoalkaloids in 7 hours from memory), buy it just as it's about to turn green/sprout, store it some more, then we cook it & eat it. It's potentially lethal after about 3 months in ideal storage conditions, these ideal conditions don't normally occur. What is needed is a harvest date on every potato!

I can see everyone's point, but I really don't think nightshades affect all populations the same. You must understand that there are whole civilizations that had the potato as their staple. Even nowadays the potato is a huge staple in South America(where I live) and yet people don't seem to be affected by the other staple -- bread. Here in Chile, the staples are bread, rice and potatoes, and yet there seem to be fewer people with celiac disease. Perhaps it affects people of northern european extraction way more that it does people of South American amerindian populations, seeing as to how the latter have had thousands of years to develop a genetic tolerance to solanine.

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