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Lovelycherry

Fingerprints And Celiac Disease/gluten Intolerance

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When I was at Epcot earlier this month, I flunked the fingerprint test to get in both times. The ticket-takers let me in anyway and kept calling me 'dear'...I'm wondering now, do they get 1 out of 133 that do that and the ticket takers are just used to it?

I have never had fingerprint strength and didn't know it was related.

As an aside, I think Dr. D'Adamo is very interesting as well. He was probably the first that I read to lead me to question wheat.

Margaret

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I have tons of horizontal creases on my fingertips, but I don't know if that's what you're talking about. The YouTube video has been removed but I found this article that may be of interest http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender...mp;blobtype=pdf

So, I'm not a diagnosed Celiac, formally, because I wouldn't be able to stand a gluten challenge, but could this point to the possibility?

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this is very intresting i haven't been finger printed since i was a child.... so i have no idea weather or not i would have any problems with it but it is rather intresting... i can look at my hands and see the lines going across my pattern of my fingers... i thought maybe i was jsut washing my hands to much but maybe not since they never go away i've never noticed them before till now wow ...

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man, some days i tire of being a skeptic.

first, the GenoType book is mostly nonsense. it rehashes old half-truths and old wives tales into a new-age genetic/genomic 'raison d'etre'. much of the basis for this work comes from the historical justifications and, what we now know, oversimplifications of francis.galton and karl.pearson. they tried to relate human morphological (i.e., physical) variation to different behavioral and disease-related traits. while they both provided the basis for many of our current statistical techniques -- their biological justifications were, shall we say, misguided.

i'm sure i used this analogy in the past; but, it bears repeating. in the 1930's and 1940's it was observed that brown cows gave a lot of milk. many breeders thought that they could then breed for high milk production by choosing brown cows. in the late 40's and throughout the 50's, it was shown that there is NO relationship between coat color and milk production. as has been discussed by many folks in this forum, there is a difference between correlation and causation. further, correlations can be influenced by so many variables -- not the least of which is sampling errors.

as for the fingerprint mystery; there are several elements to consider. first, fingerprint sensors are notoriously inaccurate (even though you pay a bit extra to get one on your laptop). they have self-reported fail rates of 2-6%, when individuals being tested are supervised. unsupervised fail rates are higher, the fbi reports a 10-20% rejection rate for self-administered FBI fingerprint cards. some electronic firms use special equipment (meaning NOT the kind on your laptop) for reading fingerprints that are reported to cut this rate in 1/2.

if you read any forensic human identification texts (usually authored by the FBI), there are strong suggestions AGAINST using biometric fingerprint readers for high security applications (even when used in conjunction with card readers, or other forms of id).

as for white lines, fingerprints and celiac disease (oh my..); again; sorry, but this is so fraught with problems -- i don't even know where to begin. first, there is a huge error rate in taking fingerprints themselves. second, the 'analysis' of the type of fingerprinting described in the youtube video is subjective. third, it is clear that having celiac is not the only reason to have 'white lines' on a fingerprint (anything ranging from the process of fingerprinting to scratches/scars to other nutritional deficiencies which MAY reduce ridge height). etc.etc.etc.

puh-lease.

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A little over three years ago, I picked up a copy of the ERFYT book and decided to give it a try. I was eating a nearly vegan diet with LOTS of whole wheat bread. And I felt like hell all the time. So, in my opinion, this diet helped me. I felt better than ever! With in the first month, I had gained muscle mass and weight, my headaches and joint pains were lessening and my skin rashes were gone. I was amazed to say the least. Note that I am a BT O. And it recommends no wheat. So, the wheat, potato, corn, peanut and along with those most processed foods are out because they all contain some form of these ingredients were out.

Many of my symptoms came back after two and a half years on the BTD. It was terrible. I looked to Dr. D'Adamo's work to see what could be causing it.

I had a test run to find that I was what is known as a non secreter. The non secreter diet for an O is an extra elimination of most grains, all glutenous.

I followed. I started getting better. At the same time I was still doing research and found that most of my symptoms relate to celiac disease. *which non secreters are 200 % more likely to develop than secreters*

Now, I do not claim that the BTD is to be followed, unquestioned by anyone! But I do think that it gives people a chance to start eating real food and begin a healing process that they may not have ever started or even thought possible eating todays "normal" diet.

You have to take into consideration the fact that most people eat crap. It's not food, it's not natural and it's certainly not healthy. So, a few small changed and a diet of real food and you're on the road to a healthier you.

I say that it led me to where I am now... recovery.

The BTD consists of REAL FOOD. Not processed food like substances.

I think this is why it helps so many people.

We can also note that more people have food intolerances and most people do not know what foods are causing the issues. That if, they, like many of us here even realize they're not well. I, like many other people thought that the headaches, joint pains, loss of hair, skin and GI issues were normal for me.

It's kind of an elimination diet of sorts.

I know many people that have tried the diet and have had success with it.

Some swear by it.

I just say that I had success with the diet and that it promotes a healthy lifestyle. I can't imagine how sick I would still be had I not picked up that book and decided to give it a try. I thought at the time, hell, it can't hurt.

And that's just it. I didn't. It helped. More than I can say. That doesn't mean to say that I don't question *and I have* Dr. D'Adamo and the why's of his recommendations. *and some on his forum were not happy that I did so. I wanted more answers than I felt I was being supplied with*

But, I do say that even with the questions that I have about the process and the why's to his practice, it works. And I've found that, for whatever reason, he is usually right about foods as far as my body has been concerned.

So, all in all....

People will believe in what works for them.

BTW I have lines in my fingerprints too.

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as for white lines, fingerprints and celiac disease (oh my..); again; sorry, but this is so fraught with problems -- i don't even know where to begin. first, there is a huge error rate in taking fingerprints themselves. second, the 'analysis' of the type of fingerprinting described in the youtube video is subjective. third, it is clear that having celiac is not the only reason to have 'white lines' on a fingerprint (anything ranging from the process of fingerprinting to scratches/scars to other nutritional deficiencies which MAY reduce ridge height). etc.etc.etc.
I don't think the lines on the fingerprints must indicate Celiac, and I don't recall anyone on this thread suggesting it did. But I think it IS something to toss into the mix, just as poor nail health, skin problems, bowel problems, thyroid problems, etc should be. You put all the symptoms together, and a picture begins to form. That's a large part of what doctors do.

Also, since the vast majority of Celiacs are yet undiagnosed, one cannot dismiss the lines just because a certain percentage of the general population might have them. You mentioned nutritional deficiencies - of course Celiacs are prone to this. So as I see it, those deficiencies may well play a part in causing the lines, just as they can in nail ridges and other nail problems. Sure, one doesn't have to be Celiac to be deficient in the nutrients which cause those things. But anyone eating a decent diet, yet still has deficiencies, seems likely to have malabsorption. And what would cause malabsorption? While there may be more than one possible cause, a damaged intestine is a prime suspect. Now ask yourself just how many diseases result in a chronically damaged intestine.

So I think the lines can be used as a diagnosis tool, just as certain nail problems are used by nutritionists to help determine nutrient deficiencies. In my view, it could be a piece of the overall picture.

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the only thing that makes me feel worse than folks who have been failed by the system -- is people who have been failed by the system and turn to pseudoscience.

this seriously harms their chances of ever finding a solution.

fingerprints are not and never have been a valid tool for any medical condition. if a person was nutritionally deficient, there are a myriad of symptoms that will present before one's fingerprints become diagnostic.

members of this group rightly discuss the ins&outs of false positives (or negatives) for blood tests that may only have a 3-5% error rate (in one direction or the other).

to suggest that fingerprints, with a 20% discard rate during the 'print' process, could possibly be useful is simply a distortion.

frankly, i agree that most people eat 'crap'. they do so for a variety of reasons; ranging from the economic to the hedonic. on the one hand, i am always glad that someone finds the path to solid nutrition and health -- even via a quack -- however, to assume that the quack is speaking some element of truth is also a mistake.

there are always anecdotes and people who will sell you a book (or two) -- but there is no substitute for rigorous scientific methodology and sound logic and reason.

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Wow, I always thought the white lines were from the skin drying out, using harsh solvents, guitar playing, and whatnot. And now that this topic came up, I took a good look and most of the lines are gone! Amazing.

Yes, ridges on the fingernails is related, but basically due to nutrient deficiency. Vitamin B12 in particular. Other effect of B12 deficiency on the nails are diminished half moons, specks, and thin/brittle nails.

Blood tests have never shown me deficient in any nutrient, even B12. And yet at about the same time I was suspected of having gluten issues, my fingernails began to create vertical ridges which worsened and remain to this day. I also have no moons except really small ones on my thumbs. I think I used to have them on the other fingers, but honestly can't remember. Just checked one of my undiagnosed children and they have no moons at all. My nails have also become brittle and crack off easily, when they used to be nice and pliable. Are these symptoms honestly considered from a medical standpoint as being indicative of nutrient malabsorption and/or celiac or are they more anecdotal or perhaps even just heredity or a part of normal aging? Just wondering about the science of it. I eat very, very well, by the way. No junk. Thanks so much! :)

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fingerprints are not and never have been a valid tool for any medical condition. if a person was nutritionally deficient, there are a myriad of symptoms that will present before one's fingerprints become diagnostic.

I don't think we're discussing fingerprints in particular. Rather, the straight lines which seem to present themselves in that area of the fingers. They may or may not interfere with taking a print, but that's besides the point.

I also cannot overlook the fact that the lines I used to always have, are now gone. There's no pseudoscience involved in that observation. Sure, you might argue that they have gone for some other reason. But given all the other things which have also cleared up at the same time, it is fairly persuasive evidence of a connection, in my book. These are things I had since early childhood, and no doctor could ever shed any light whatsoever on the cause(s). Discounting one thing might be justifiable, but I had so many symptoms which at the time seemed totally unrelated, that it must be considered as meaningful.

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I also cannot overlook the fact that the lines I used to always have, are now gone. There's no pseudoscience involved in that observation.

Chronic, sub-clinical dehydration?

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Blood tests have never shown me deficient in any nutrient, even B12. And yet at about the same time I was suspected of having gluten issues, my fingernails began to create vertical ridges which worsened and remain to this day. I also have no moons except really small ones on my thumbs. I think I used to have them on the other fingers, but honestly can't remember. Just checked one of my undiagnosed children and they have no moons at all. My nails have also become brittle and crack off easily, when they used to be nice and pliable. Are these symptoms honestly considered from a medical standpoint as being indicative of nutrient malabsorption and/or celiac or are they more anecdotal or perhaps even just heredity or a part of normal aging? Just wondering about the science of it. I eat very, very well, by the way. No junk. Thanks so much! :)

Yes, ridges and other nail malformations are true indicators of nutritional deficiencies. Also, blood tests don't always give an accurate picture of nutrient levels. I read someplace, that the body will basically rob organs and various tissues of B12 in order to maintain levels in the blood. If that's true, then by the time a B12 deficiency shows up on a test, you've got a real problem. This is one reason why any good nutritionist makes an observation of the patient's nails, along with a number of other things.

Celiac damages the small intestine, causing nutrient deficiencies. So even if you're eating well, you may still not get enough of everything you need. I seriously recommend having your child tested, and no matter the results, try putting them on a gluten-free diet.

There are a few other deficiencies which are known to impact nail health. A quick search turns up a lot of articles, so I'd recommend doing that and reading up on it. Here's just one: http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art51111.asp

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There is no consensus on a minimum standard for B-12 levels:

From Wikipedia:

Recent research indicates that B12 deficiency is far more widespread than formerly believed. A large study in the US found that 39 percent had low values.[17] This study at Tufts University used the B12 concentration 258 pmol/l (= 350 pg/liter) as a criterion of "low level". However, recent research has found that B12 deficiency may occur at a much higher B12 concentration (500-600 pg/l). On this basis Mitsuyama and Kogoh [18]. proposed 550 pg/l, and Tiggelen et al [19] proposed 600 pg/l. Against this background, there are reasons to believe that B12 deficiency is present in a far greater proportion of the population than 39% as reported by Tufts University.

Serum B12 levels are often low in B12 deficiency, but if other features of B12 deficiency are present with normal B12 then the diagnosis must not be discounted. One possible explanation for normal B12 levels in B12 deficiency is antibody interference in people with high titres of intrinsic factor antibody.[23] Some researchers propose that the current standard norms of vitamin B12 levels are too low[citation needed]. In Japan, the lowest acceptable level for vitamin B12 in blood has been raised from about 200 pg/ml (145 pM) to 550 pg/ml (400 pM)[citation needed]. [18]

I found a citation for the above: Eggersten, Robert, et al. Prevalence and diagnosis of

cobalamin deficiency in older people, Journal of the

American Geriatrics Society; Vol. 44, Nol. 10, October

1996, pp. 1273-74.

Goodman, Mark, et al. Are U.S. lower normal B-12 limits

too low? Journal of the American Geriatrics Society, Vol.

44, No. 10, October 1996, pp. 1274-75.

They say:

"The lower limit of 200 pg/mL is based on the level which

causes abnormalities in the blood (pernicious anemia). In

contrast the lower limit in Japan and some European countries

is 500-550 pg/mL and is based on the level which causes

mental manifestations such as dementia and memory loss."

It looks like much of the medical community may be as clueless about B-12 deficiency as they are about celiac and gluten intolerance.

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not surprisingly, the absorption of b12 requires a stomach, an intrinsic factor secreted from the stomach, pancreatic enzymes and a NORMAL ileum.

In the stomach, food-bound B12 is dissociated from carrier proteins in the presence of acid and pepsin. The released B12 then binds to proteins secreted by the salivary glands (haptocorrins) and the gastric mucosa. In the small intestine, PANCREATIC PROTEASES metabolize the haptocorrin-B12 complex releasing B12 to combine with a transport protein that 'carries' b12 into the ileal enterocytes.

[note: there are several paths in this process that might be impaired in celiacs. for now, i'm trying to find the exact enzyme that releases b12 from the haptocorrins to see if it might be related to the enzyme that prevents celiacs from completely digesting gluten.]

b12 absorption is usually considered to be about 50%, but, like all good biological processes -- reports range from 10% to 70% (gotta love the bell curve!) in any case, anemia decreases absorption, with pernicious anemia reducing intestinal absorption to (effectively) zero.

curiously, neurological effects of vit b12 deficiency are INVERSELY correlated with degree of anemia. so, the worse the anemia -- the fewer neurological effects. curious, eh?

to quote the national academy:

The concentration of B12 in the serum or plasma reflects both the B12 intake and stores. The lower limit is considered to be approximately 120 to 180 pmol/L (170 to 250 pg/mL) for adults but varies with the method used and the laboratory conducting the analysis. As deficiency develops, serum values may be maintained at the expense of B12 in the tissues. Thus, a serum B12 value above the cutoff point does not necessarily indicate adequate B12 status; but a low value may represent a long-term abnormality or prolonged low intake.

along with the bell-curve thing, there are certainly folks with higher-than-average requirements (or daily allowances); whether due to absorption or metabolism.

[probably uncalled for note: no mention of fingerprints (or their little white lines...)]

:)

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[note: there are several paths in this process that might be impaired in celiacs. for now, i'm trying to find the exact enzyme that releases b12 from the haptocorrins to see if it might be related to the enzyme that prevents celiacs from completely digesting gluten.]

quicker process than i thought. there are no obvious relationships between the major B12 carrier proteins and gluten/gliadin. the carrier proteins are glutamine-rich -- but there do not seem to be any shared cleavage sites...

>sigh< -- seemed like a good idea at the time.... probably just an absorption problem...

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A little over three years ago, I picked up a copy of the ERFYT book and decided to give it a try. I was eating a nearly vegan diet with LOTS of whole wheat bread. And I felt like hell all the time. So, in my opinion, this diet helped me. I felt better than ever! With in the first month, I had gained muscle mass and weight, my headaches and joint pains were lessening and my skin rashes were gone. I was amazed to say the least. Note that I am a BT O. And it recommends no wheat. So, the wheat, potato, corn, peanut and along with those most processed foods are out because they all contain some form of these ingredients were out.

Many of my symptoms came back after two and a half years on the BTD. It was terrible. I looked to Dr. D'Adamo's work to see what could be causing it.

I had a test run to find that I was what is known as a non secreter. The non secreter diet for an O is an extra elimination of most grains, all glutenous.

I followed. I started getting better. At the same time I was still doing research and found that most of my symptoms relate to celiac disease. *which non secreters are 200 % more likely to develop than secreters*

Now, I do not claim that the BTD is to be followed, unquestioned by anyone! But I do think that it gives people a chance to start eating real food and begin a healing process that they may not have ever started or even thought possible eating todays "normal" diet.

You have to take into consideration the fact that most people eat crap. It's not food, it's not natural and it's certainly not healthy. So, a few small changed and a diet of real food and you're on the road to a healthier you.

I say that it led me to where I am now... recovery.

The BTD consists of REAL FOOD. Not processed food like substances.

I think this is why it helps so many people.

We can also note that more people have food intolerances and most people do not know what foods are causing the issues. That if, they, like many of us here even realize they're not well. I, like many other people thought that the headaches, joint pains, loss of hair, skin and GI issues were normal for me.

It's kind of an elimination diet of sorts.

I know many people that have tried the diet and have had success with it.

Some swear by it.

I just say that I had success with the diet and that it promotes a healthy lifestyle. I can't imagine how sick I would still be had I not picked up that book and decided to give it a try. I thought at the time, hell, it can't hurt.

And that's just it. I didn't. It helped. More than I can say. That doesn't mean to say that I don't question *and I have* Dr. D'Adamo and the why's of his recommendations. *and some on his forum were not happy that I did so. I wanted more answers than I felt I was being supplied with*

But, I do say that even with the questions that I have about the process and the why's to his practice, it works. And I've found that, for whatever reason, he is usually right about foods as far as my body has been concerned.

So, all in all....

People will believe in what works for them.

BTW I have lines in my fingerprints too.

Hi Crimson,

I'm only posting this because I'm concerned.

I am blood type A negative....and I have celiac disease. The book, "Eat Right for Your Blood Type", espouses ideas that respectable scientists do not agree with (I'm a scientist, BTW). The diet recommended for me by that book would probably kill me (lots of grains!!). It describes people with type A blood as "low in stomach acid".

Excuse me?? I'm on Prilosec AND Pepcid for GERD! LOL!

Please, please do not base important health decisions on books like that. Or at least, please do not encourage others to do so. The consequences could be dire if they have a blood type for which the book recommends LOTS of whole wheat and they have undiagnosed celiac disease!

Take care.....and best wishes to you!

JoAnn

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Have you ever considered ditching the antacids and taking a teaspoon of vinegar? Sometimes that works because the symptoms are actually from low acid rather than too much acid.

As for the rest of it. Say what you will. It helped me.

As for pushing whole wheat, you may want to take a swing at the American Heart Association. :lol:

EDIT:

Here's the link for Dr D'Adamo's food type-base. If you go to where the grains are and take a look at the wheat foods, you will find that they are not really recommended for people. If they're not listed as avoid, they are listed as neutral. Which means that they're not really good for you.

As stated above, non secreters are NOT advised to eat wheat products. Likely because they're not considered safe.

You may want to re read that book.

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Hi Crimson,

I'm only posting this because I'm concerned.

I am blood type A negative....and I have celiac disease. The book, "Eat Right for Your Blood Type", espouses ideas that respectable scientists do not agree with (I'm a scientist, BTW). The diet recommended for me by that book would probably kill me (lots of grains!!). It describes people with type A blood as "low in stomach acid".

Excuse me?? I'm on Prilosec AND Pepcid for GERD! LOL!

Please, please do not base important health decisions on books like that. Or at least, please do not encourage others to do so. The consequences could be dire if they have a blood type for which the book recommends LOTS of whole wheat and they have undiagnosed celiac disease!

Take care.....and best wishes to you!

JoAnn

Not to stray off-topic, but...

Just to expound on what Crimson mentioned, Apple Cider Vinegar has reportedly cured a lot of people of heartburn. Apparently, the burning sensation can be caused by low stomach acid, and the ACV helps the stomach to right itself. The ACV must be Raw, Unfiltered, and Unpasteurized. A search will bring up a lot of info and suggestions on usage. Though I don't have heartburn, if I did, I think I'd probably use the ACV in a salad dressing or something.

Another product which has been successfully used by many, is Betaine HCL w/pepsin.

As I understand it, low stomach acid basically means food sits in the stomach, ferments, and that creates gas. As the gas escapes into the esophagus, it burns.

I'm sure not every case of chronic heartburn can be fixed this way, as there is undoubtedly more than one cause. But, it definitely seems worth a shot for anyone suffering. Additionally, prolonged use of antacids basically ruins the stomach's ability to produce Intrinsic Factor, leading to Pernicious Anemia. Last I read, there is no known cure for Pernicious Anemia.

As for the blood type diet thing, and whole grains, all I will add there is that the term "whole grains" doesn't necessarily mean wheat. Most grains are gluten-free too, though from what I've read, some are technically seeds. It's just that they're normally used as grains. But I do know that not everyone does well with grains, so I'm not suggesting that you should eat them if you know you shouldn't.

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Not to stray off-topic, but...

Just to expound on what Crimson mentioned, Apple Cider Vinegar has reportedly cured a lot of people of heartburn. Apparently, the burning sensation can be caused by low stomach acid, and the ACV helps the stomach to right itself. The ACV must be Raw, Unfiltered, and Unpasteurized. A search will bring up a lot of info and suggestions on usage. Though I don't have heartburn, if I did, I think I'd probably use the ACV in a salad dressing or something.

Another product which has been successfully used by many, is Betaine HCL w/pepsin.

As I understand it, low stomach acid basically means food sits in the stomach, ferments, and that creates gas. As the gas escapes into the esophagus, it burns.

[snip]

under most circumstances the pH in the stomach is around 1-2 (VERY acidic), it sometimes approaches 3 depending on the type and amount of food consumed. it can't get lower.

further, fermentation CANNOT occur at these pH's. what most people refer to as heartburn is due to acid escaping the stomach into the esophagus. lots of reasons this might occur -- ranging from simply eating too much to diseases/damage to the muscle located at the stomach:esophageal junction.

relief obtained from either apple cider vinegar or betaine (if it occurs at all) is probably due to a RAISING of pH in the stomach (unfiltered apple cider vinegar tends to be slightly basic), thereby relieving the burning sensation in the esophagus.

re-read nasalady's post. there's a lot of strange info out there. even in wikipedia.

:)

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under most circumstances the pH in the stomach is around 1-2 (VERY acidic), it sometimes approaches 3 depending on the type and amount of food consumed. it can't get lower.

further, fermentation CANNOT occur at these pH's. what most people refer to as heartburn is due to acid escaping the stomach into the esophagus. lots of reasons this might occur -- ranging from simply eating too much to diseases/damage to the muscle located at the stomach:esophageal junction.

relief obtained from either apple cider vinegar or betaine (if it occurs at all) is probably due to a RAISING of pH in the stomach (unfiltered apple cider vinegar tends to be slightly basic), thereby relieving the burning sensation in the esophagus.

re-read nasalady's post. there's a lot of strange info out there. even in wikipedia.

:)

I didn't get that info about heartburn/ACV from Wiki. I can only say what many report, and the reasons given for why something works or not. Yes, the stomach is supposed to be quite acidic. In fact, I once heard that the acid of the stomach is so strong, it can dissolve the flesh off a human hand in about 3 minutes.

However, I must point out that ACV would appear to be acidic. For instance, Bragg's lists theirs as having a pH of 3.075. As you know, below 7 is acidic. But, the pH isn't what does the trick, from what I've read. Otherwise, it would have to be taken continuously, and that isn't supposed to be necessary. Again, it is supposed to help the stomach to regain proper functioning in some way. I don't recall reading specifics, but I think it involved enzymes.

Betaine HCL is supposedly to add hydrochloric acid to the stomach, so it must be acidic if that's what it is. Stomach acid is hydrochloric, from what I've read.

I cannot argue about the possibility of fermentation at a given pH, as I've not researched it. However, if a person's stomach acid is very low, perhaps that could account for it, which wouldn't conflict with the suggestion of requiring a higher acidity. It may also be that the fermentation occurs in the intestines. I did read about this happening with proteins, creating ammonia, though there was no mention of heartburn in the article as I recall, which was about candida overgrowth.

Yes, if the muscle which closes off the esophagus doesn't do it's job, heartburn can result. I heard something about the signal to close being influenced by the level of stomach acid too. Again, I'm sure not everyone has heartburn because of low stomach acid.

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Betaine HCL is to help raise stomach acid levels. Though, if it's mixed with pepsin, you should consider taking it for a limited time or take days off from it so that you can see if your stomach has gotten to the point where it can do the work itself.

It's also a hell of a lot easier to swallow than vinegar. :P

Good debate and conversation is extremely helpful. Especially here where we're all looking to learn more and find solutions to our issues. And some of us are quite on our own otherwise.

Any one here reading this information should know to do their own research and find what works for them! Don't take my word or anyone else with out doing your own checks on the information.

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However, I must point out that ACV would appear to be acidic. For instance, Bragg's lists theirs as having a pH of 3.075. As you know, below 7 is acidic.

sorry, slip of the keyboard... more basic than other, distilled, vinegars...

Betaine HCL is supposedly to add hydrochloric acid to the stomach, so it must be acidic if that's what it is. Stomach acid is hydrochloric, from what I've read.

no doubt. that's what the HCl stands for. Hydrochloric Acid.

not sure about the type of betaine... since the term in chemistry refers to a particular conformation of molecules. at least in the lab, betaine is used as shorthand for trimethylglycine; of which Betaine-HCl can used as a substitute for the non-essential amino acid Glycine in cell culture work.

btw, it is an -HCl salt of the original compound so that it has greater solubility in water.

the health effects of these molecules has not been rigorously tested; and it is difficult to conceive of a reasonable mechanism by which they might work

... candida overgrowth....

oh dear. lets not get started on this. the 'candida diet' is in the same category as the blood-type, genome & grapefruit diets...

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oh dear. lets not get started on this. the 'candida diet' is in the same category as the blood-type, genome & grapefruit diets...

So glad to see someone else post this opinion.

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oh dear. lets not get started on this. the 'candida diet' is in the same category as the blood-type, genome & grapefruit diets...

Right, let's not. I never mentioned the candida diet anyway. But I can speak from personal experience, that the condition of yeast overgrowth can certainly occur. I have to agree that some of the dietary restrictions being suggested for dealing with the yeasties doesn't seem reasonable to me. Especially since I was successful in getting rid of the problem even while eating tons of complex carbs every day, and before going gluten-free too. It didn't take long, and wasn't super tough. The way I see it, if yeast could feed on complex carbs like some suggest, bakers wouldn't add sugar to bread dough to help it rise faster.

I hope this thread gets back on topic soon...

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