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nikken007

Great Rise In Bread; How Did That Happen? ... But Sunk

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I made flax seed bread yesterday ("Gluten-Free Mulitgrain Miracle Bread" from recipezaar.com) and it rose a lot more than it usually does for me! I did a few things differently and I'm wondering what may have been the main factor. I doubled the recipe for two loaves.

I use an Electrolux DLX Assistant mixer and in the past I have used the metal bowl with the roller/scraper. This time I used the beaters in the plastic bowl instead so I think it got whipped up better, incorporating more air. (see http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/magic_mill_dlx_mixer.aspx for picture of mixer. Scroll to "Electrolux Magic Mill DLX Stainless Bowl Accessories" to see roller/scraper and a little further down to see down with beaters) I had a problem with using the beaters as the dough got up into the gears in the beater but I was able to scrape some of it out. It sure was a pain to clean out, though!

I put the (glass) pans of dough in a pre-heated 200 degree oven but I forgot to turn it off. I checked on it about 20 -25 minutes later and it was almost to the top. I discovered that the oven was still on so I turned it off. I was afraid the oven being kept on might have killed the yeast, but it didn't.

About 5 minutes later when it was to the top of the pans, I took them out of the oven and turned the temp up to 350 degrees. I baked them for 45 minutes. These loaves were about 7 inches tall! I was afraid they would fall. Other loaves have either fallen in the top or in the sides. These ones fell in the sides. I kept them in the pans for about 5-7 minutes. When I saw them falling, I put them on their sides and took the pans out.

Other differences: In the past I have used rice milk, rice or water with no difference. This time I used almond milk, room temperature.

I used SAF instant yeast (doubled the yeast as well), but I've used that yeast in the other ones as well. The flours I used were 1 cup sorghum (home milled and from the freezer), 1 cup brown rice flour, 1/2 cup teff flour, 1/2 cup potato starch, 1/2 cup combination of tapioca flour and arrowroot flour (close to half and half) 1/2 cup flaxseed meal. I used a 1/4 cup less liquid and minus 1 egg white. Keep in mind that this is for 2 loaves. (all ingredients not listed)

The bread tasted great; moist but a little doughy in places, and of course a funny shape!

Any ideas? I'm wondering if the next time I make this I should not turn off the oven during the rise. The reason I usually use the metal bowl is because I have used this mixer to make wheat bread, etc. and I didn't want cross contamination. I'm afraid with the plastic bowl it might be contaminated but I decided to try it this time to see if it would turn out better (rises weren't that great). I'm especially afraid of contamination in the beater gears. I should buy new parts. Thanks.

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Though I cannot be certain, I suspect the amount of liquid is the crucial factor, or more specifically, the consistency of the dough. I've found that too much or two little results in improper rise. Not enough makes it rise less, which I presume is because it dries out before it gets up to the desired height, and possibly allows further gas bubbles to escape. Too much liquid prevents the dough from cooking sufficiently in order not to fall.

Given that, I suppose the extra heat drew too much moisture from the dough. And of course, the middle was left with the most moisture. As you used less liquid this time, it does seems to follow that the middle would have a better chance of staying up. From my experience with almond milk, it would help the dough retain moisture.

So I think the trick is to use enough moisture to allow full rise, but not so much it can't cook and dry enough to prevent being gummy and falling. I don't see how the bowl or the method of mixing would make much difference (unless you don't get it mixed well enough). I always mix by hand, and never had a bread turn out like it hadn't gotten blended right. The pan you bake with does make a difference though, as the heat conductance differs between materials. I like baking breads in glass much more than metal. Heat seems to be distributed more evenly, and not reflected.

Just my thoughts...


A spherical meteorite 10 km in diameter traveling at 20 km/s has the kinetic energy equal to the calories in 550,000,000,000,000,000 Twinkies.

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My previous experience has always been baking with yeast breads with gluten so bear that in mind with my comments. I think I know the reason but may be completely wrong. :blink:

With gluten breads, if they over-rise, the gluten may stretch than is needed to hold the structure together as it cooks. Although there's no gluten in our baking now, I still think the cohesive part that holds the structure together may not be able to maintain it if over-risen. I don't notice any xanthan gum or any other binding agent in your mix or do you use any? Perhaps if something was added to hold it together better, it wouldn't have happened. I can imagine if it was allowed to rise less, the structure wouldn't be so delicate.

I'm not sure if too much liquid would apply to gluten-free baking like RiceGuy says - it could be - I just don't know enough about gluten-free baking yet. But in gluten baking, there are various recipes that call for a much thinner batter with more liquid & holds nicely. It gives a more open lacy network to the finished product. But as I said, no idea how that applies with gluten-free baking. Lots for me to learn still.

I love RiceGuy's idea of trying diff variations & baking them in small individual cups to compare the results. Maybe try that?

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Don't double the yeast when you make a double recipe. It's counter-intuitive, but whenever I have seen instructions for doubling a bread recipe that's what it says. I have found by accident that cutting the yeast in half for any gluten-free bread recipe gives me a nice loaf that doesn't fall and doesn't have as many huge pockets inside. I think with more yeast the gas bubbles form more quickly and get larger, and with no gluten to keep tension on those bubbles they can just stretch like crazy.


Lee

I never liked bread anyway.....

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I replied to a couple of posts but they didn't show up and I didn't have time to write all that out again.

I made 2 more loaves Saturday night and they turned out much better. I used a little more liquid because it looked too dry. When I put them in the oven to rise (I kept oiled plastic wrap on top), I turned down the heat from 200 degrees to "warm" for about a half hour. That was a bit too long. By the time I got them into a 350 degree oven, the dough had over-risen so I turned up the heat to 400 to kill the yeast sooner. After awhile I turned the heat back down to 350. I also tented them with tin foil after 20 minutes. These didn't fall as much and are my tallest yet (final state).

I've experimented with the yeast (adding less) and it didn't seem to rise very well. I'll have to experiment some more with that. Also try mixing by hand. Could be that I am over mixing. Oh, and I do use xanthan gum; a tablespoon per loaf. I didn't list all the ingredients.

Here is a link to the recipe http://tinyurl.com/37t6xm . I've make mine a little differently. It taste great and stays moist for days. My kids like it better than wheat bread. I like how it doesn't melt in your mouth like some gluten free breads I've tasted. This has structure, and stretches/gives when I full it apart. Never crumbly. I'm sure I'll get better at it the more I make it.

Thanks for all your replies!

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Here's another update. Success!!! I made the bread again the other day and it's the best yet. It didn't sink much. I didn't double the yeast (for 2 loaves) and I let it rise in the oven on the warm setting (probably close to 150 or 125 degrees). I decided it needed to rise slower as it was doughy in places. I also went back to using the original amount of liquid and the original amount of eggs (2 eggs and 2 egg yolks per loaf). Another thing I did differently is to whisk the starches before measuring them (especially important with potato starch since it clumps so easily). I put the eggs and almond milk, etc. (liquids) in the bowl at room temperature, sprinkled the yeast on top and just let it sit there for about 20 minutes then gave it a stir. I then added the dry ingredients and mixed it in my Electrolux DLX mixer for 5 minutes with the roller/scraper. I ran out of plastic wrap so I oiled wax paper to cover the pans and put in the warm oven and turned it off. I baked it for 50 minutes at 375 and then to 350 after a little while. I let it set in the oven for a little while and take it out, let it cool on it's side and take it out.

I also changed the salt to my coarse Celtic Sea salt that I ground with my mortar and pestle. Increased the salt to make up for the coarseness of it. Next time I won't use so much.

When I get this just right I'll start making more than 2 at a time. My mixer can easily handle it. Two loaves go by so fast.

My children say they like this bread better than wheat bread. But then, they are getting their higher quality (high frutose free) whole wheat store bought bread. I can no longer get myself to make homemade whole wheat bread for them. Homemade is definitely better, even it it is gluten free! The children are so sweet; they like just about everything that I make.

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