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Mat82

gluten free, detox, mood, supplements

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Hi Guys, 

Im new here, and been gluten free for just over 6 months, so im still learning alot.

heres some background info: I have suffered with bad anxiety, depression, and brain fog (as well as some other stuff) for over 15years, probably longer but it wasnt as bad so i could manage it . I tried different types of medications from doctors but they didnt really work.

I went and saw a naturopath about 6 months ago and he put me on a gluten free diet as well as giving me metagenics neurocalm, glutagenics, ultra flora digest, and a probiotic ultraflora digest immune control, he has interchanged the probiotic with another one, but i cant remember what it was called. Anyway i started feeling really good, and was improving more and more every week. About 4 weeks ago the naturopath decided to do a part detox on me which was silver and aloe vera juice. I stopped my medication while i did the detox apart from the probiotic. All my symptoms came back a little bit but i just thought it was from the detox. I have now been finished my detox for a couple of weeks and back on all my supplements and now i feel like im back where i started. im anxious, depressed, no energy, foggy brain etc. 

Has anyone else been through this, Does anyone have any thoughts on what is going on, any solutions etc?

Any help would be appreciated, as i cant go back to the way i felt, especially when i know how good i can feel

Thanks

Mat

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4 hours ago, Mat82 said:

Hi Guys, 

Im new here, and been gluten free for just over 6 months, so im still learning alot.

heres some background info: I have suffered with bad anxiety, depression, and brain fog (as well as some other stuff) for over 15years, probably longer but it wasnt as bad so i could manage it . I tried different types of medications from doctors but they didnt really work.

I went and saw a naturopath about 6 months ago and he put me on a gluten free diet as well as giving me metagenics neurocalm, glutagenics, ultra flora digest, and a probiotic ultraflora digest immune control, he has interchanged the probiotic with another one, but i cant remember what it was called. Anyway i started feeling really good, and was improving more and more every week. About 4 weeks ago the naturopath decided to do a part detox on me which was silver and aloe vera juice. I stopped my medication while i did the detox apart from the probiotic. All my symptoms came back a little bit but i just thought it was from the detox. I have now been finished my detox for a couple of weeks and back on all my supplements and now i feel like im back where i started. im anxious, depressed, no energy, foggy brain etc. 

Has anyone else been through this, Does anyone have any thoughts on what is going on, any solutions etc?

Any help would be appreciated, as i cant go back to the way i felt, especially when i know how good i can feel

Thanks

Mat

Sounds like you haven't seen an actual doctor and gotten tested for Celiac before going gluten free?  

Sounds like you are spending a lot  of money for this stuff.

Edited by kareng

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I very much understand going to alternative practitioners particularly if allopathic avenues tried previously have not worked. Karen g is suggesting you get formal testing to confirm celiac/ncgs status. 

I am glad the practitioner is providing relief /comfort , and I understand a supplement or two for protocol. I do get  concerned when those numbers increase in products suggested.  Ideally it should be mostly food based nutritional support with a few supplements for deficiencies or a multi to support the regular diet. 

It is very possible that your alternative practitioner is onto your problem. I spent years having more symptom relief and better health with a DC . However I would suggest from the sake of this illness that you also take the knowledge you have discovered with the current practitioner and ask an allopathic physician to test for celiac/ncgs. During my 2016 diagnosis process my own team told me accupuncture sometimes helped ease symptoms for previous patients.

Yes one can get a flood of " memory lane " symptoms with a celiac flare or with alternative treatment. It can be hard to rule out which is which it comes with experience and mind/body self awareness knowledge. Naturopathic Dr' s can stir things up as they are treating, but often times you must communicate reactions /experiences so they know pros and cons to tailor treatment. Sounds the most recent step was too strong/too much. It should be gently and positively moving you along not exacerbating the bad.

In my opinion the symptoms are back strongly consider testing for celiac with a celiac hospital/clinic and then let them know you use alternative practitioners for symptom management. For testing they'll need you back on gluten. I know what I'm asking you to do is huge because I've done just that myself.

This is not an easy path, nor easy illness, you had a glimmer it's the right path when you went gluten-free, you likely have had this longer than you realize, do you have kids? Family? I never thought I'd do testing once gluten-free,  but through an error by a restaurant I got badly exposed to gluten and at that point went for testing for my kids. It was a good thing for my son also has my issues and my daughter will always be aware of her genetic potential. I'm still working on my dad and my brother who I very much worry about as I believe they may have celiac.

Sometimes our path unfolds not as we want, but as it's destined.  The alternative Dr clued you in now take that knowledge rule in or out celiac by testing . Lastly the alternative Dr can be great comfort, but celiac can be on two fronts. You need it all in your arsenal. I have a very allopathic medicine based family so my alternative practices often are disregarded I find  with celiac both are helpful.

Lastly, I wanted my allopathic medical record to have connected dots celiac explains it , but I had decades of celiac symptoms bundled and diagnosed as other illness. This finally puts it together for my offspring and future Dr s. My alternatives help a lot , but I focus on treatment not the supplemental products.

It will be a long journey to diagnose and heal you had a glimmer of it so ....

Good luck 

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6 hours ago, Mat82 said:

Has anyone else been through this, Does anyone have any thoughts on what is going on, any solutions etc?

Any help would be appreciated, as i cant go back to the way i felt, especially when i know how good i can feel

What do you typically eat in a day? I’m wondering if nutritional deficiencies could be the problem..

As for the anxiety/depression/brain fog/lack of energy - these issues can be confusing because they can be either symptoms of health conditions or withdrawal/detox side effects. For example, brain fog was a gluten intolerance symptom for me and then after I went gluten free, it was a gluten withdrawal symptom. I think the same applies to quitting caffeine, sugar, etc. How strict was the detox program?

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Welcome.  Anxiety, depression and brain fog can certainly be part of the Celiac spectrum of issues.   You could have gotten glutened and be dealing with that and it can take some time for those neuro symptoms to resolve after you have been glutened.  Do check out the Newbie 101 thread at the top of the Coping section to make sure that you are strictly gluten free.  Be sure to check any medications or supplements to be certain they are gluten free.  One of my worst glutenings in the beginning was from a naturopathic medication.

I don't think it is unusual for us to not respond to the typical drugs that are given for things like depression. They can at times make things worse. They did for members of my family anyway. I think it is because the drugs are treating for something caused by one thing when our issues are caused by the antibody reaction not something like a serotonin imbalance.

It would be a good idea to get tested for celiac but you would need to go back on gluten for a couple months to do so.  Whether you choose to get tested or not we are here to help in any way we can.

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Thanks for the replies

I have not done a celiac test, i didnt even know it was a thing until 6 months ago. i have been diagnosed by the doctor with social anxiety and adhd inattentive, all they want to do is give me drugs, the last one i had made me want to kill myself. I live in a small country town in Australia, i think ive seen every doctor here over the last 10yrs trying to get help and not one of them helped me :( 

Yes it is costing alot of money, but i was feeling so good that he could have had all my money, just this set back has got me a bit worried, as im scared of going back to how i was.

I have children, one of them is exactly like me, she has been diagnosed with mild autism, we try to get her to eat gluten free but she is very hard as she only likes certain things, so she is a work in progress. My sister is seeing the naturopath too after she saw how well i was doing, she has hoshimoto disease but the doctor never tested her for celiac or gluten intolerence either. My mum is similar, but she seems to manage so she hasnt done anything about it.

I thought i didnt have celiac because i dont feel nausea or vomiting, and my wife said that you feel really sick if you eat gluten, but i only get some pains in my stomach and mostly mental problems, is this right or can it affect people differently?

In a day i normally eat watermelon, banana, apple, yoghurt and nuts for breakfast

lettuce, cheese, cucumber, tomato, avocado, beetroot and either ham salmon or chicken with it for lunch

dinner is normally some sort of meat and vegetables

occasionally i will have gluten free cereal or gluten free bread if im in a hurry that day

the detox was literally silver and aloe vera juice, i didnt change anything else except the supplements

I would like to get tested, so i know whats going on, and it would be good to have a doctor that can help me and suport me. 

So the best thing for me to do would be to eat gluten, then go to the doctor and ask for a celiac/ncgs test?

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2738337/

This article examines how vitamin deficiencies contribute to one's mental health.  

Celiac Disease causes malabsorption which results in malnutrition.  Even if you don't have horrible gastrointestinal problems, you can still be deficient in vitamins and minerals.  

Some chemical messengers used in the brain, like serotonin, are made in the gut.  Intestinal bacteria help make certain vitamins available for absorption.  If your intestinal flora are messed up (maybe by that silver aloe cleanse), it may take some time to reestablish that beneficial bacteria again.  

https://www.celiac.com/articles/24743/1/What-Causes-Villus-Atrophy-in-Symptomatic-Celiac-Patients-on-a-Gluten-free-Diet/Page1.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28220520

These are articles that look at how some antidepressants might cause problems for Celiacs.  

I was prescribed a variety of  antidepressants and they only made me worse.  Turned out I had serious vitamin deficiencies.  Once the vitamin deficiencies were addressed, I felt much better and did not need the antidepressants.  The root of the problem needed to be addressed.  Covering up the symptoms with more antidepressant medications doesn't work.  

Perhaps having your doctor check for vitamin and mineral deficiencies for you and your daughter would be beneficial.  Supplementation may be necessary until you're healed enough to absorb nutrients.  

Hope this helps.

K

P.S. Omit dairy from your diet for a while.  Celiacs may become lactose intolerant during a flare up.

Edited by knitty kitty
Added postscript

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G'day Matt (couldn't resist it).

22 hours ago, Mat82 said:

Has anyone else been through this,

Yes, my story is similar. I had all sorts of prescriptions over the years and nothing worked particularly well until a few years ago I changed my diet and the brain fog lifted and my mood began to lighten. It was a revelation and once I knew I could feel that way I never wanted to go back. 

23 hours ago, Mat82 said:

Does anyone have any thoughts on what is going on, any solutions etc?

It's a little complicated by the range of treatments from the naturopath, supplements and detox etc. If you make several changes at once then it's difficult to pin down one as a cause.

My first suggestion is to do a little research. It's very good news that you found this site, it's a helpful community and there's lots of knowledge here. You'll find a forum faq above and I collected some Q&A's awhile ago in this post:  https://www.celiac.com/gluten-free/topic/115138-suggestion-faq-intro-post-for-the-diagnosis-board-input-requested/?do=findComment&comment=970127 try reading through, following a couple of the links and you'll feel better once you have a better grasp of this. 

 

Second, start to keep a food / mood diary! Note what you eat and when and how you're feeling at that point. Note any health related things you notice. Skin rash etc. This can really help you tie down anything which may be affecting your mood/health. You may have more than one issue, eg dairy.

9 hours ago, Mat82 said:

my wife said that you feel really sick if you eat gluten, but i only get some pains in my stomach and mostly mental problems, is this right or can it affect people differently?

No this isn't right. Celiac and gluten sensitivity can affect people in a lot of different ways.  See link above. 

9 hours ago, Mat82 said:

I would like to get tested, so i know whats going on, and it would be good to have a doctor that can help me and suport me. 

So the best thing for me to do would be to eat gluten, then go to the doctor and ask for a celiac/ncgs test?

Ok, testing would need you back on gluten for a 'challenge'. This is so your body can develop the antibodies picked up by the test. You would have to be back on for 8-12 weeks depending on what the doctor says. Be warned, this can be rough. You may find you react worse to reintroducing it than you ever did before. 

First step is to find a doctor that understands celiac. Maybe you need either a referral or just google to see if there's any doctors in your area that specialise? I've driven through rural Oz so I realise you may not have a big choice! If you see them and they want to test you can then start eating gluten again. 

Finally, you may have a problem with gluten but test negative for celiac. I did. So think in advance of what you want from the test and what you'll do with the info. For me, testing negative was difficult to take, but I did manage via the challenge to confirm that gluten was a big problem for me and the Doc told me to avoid it as if I'd tested positive for celiac. This is NCGS, there's no test for it, it's what you wind up with if you find gluten is a problem but you test negative for celiac. It didn't make much difference ultimately, I was gluten free for life regardless once I did the challenge. 

Best of luck!

Matt

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13 minutes ago, Jmg said:

G'day Matt (couldn't resist it).

:)

9 hours ago, Mat82 said:

I would like to get tested, so i know whats going on, and it would be good to have a doctor that can help me and suport me. 

So the best thing for me to do would be to eat gluten, then go to the doctor and ask for a celiac/ncgs test?

Matt has given good advice. I'd like to add one more thing: some celiacs are seronegative so the blood tests are not 'perfect'. I tested negative for celiac but didn't have an endoscopy/biopsy so I can be either a ncgs or a seronegative celiac. The important thing is my symptoms have improved so much on the gluten free diet that this is a proof that I do have a problem with gluten and have to avoid it.

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Thanks everyone for your replies, ill do some more reading so i understand it all a bit better and then decide where to go from there

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