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trents

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trents Grand Master

You got to read this! When I saw this article, I said to myself, "They've got it right!" This article espouses a theory that is a much more conprehensive and true to our community's real life experience than the traditional understanding of celiac disease. My only quibble is that I think they incorrectly apply the label of allergy to celiac disease, but it may be that they are just using the term allergy with more latitude than is usually done. Here is the link:

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Steve

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CarlaB Enthusiast

Good article

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Ursa Major Collaborator

That's an excellent article. I only wished that they wouldn't already have a spelling mistake in the title! It doesn't help in lending credibility to the authors (it should be iceberg, not ice-burg, Berg being German for mountain).

They certainly have the right idea, and I agree wholeheartedly with what they say (except for calling it an allergy perhaps, but I personally believe that the distinction being made between allergies and intolerances is often pretty arbitrary).

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andrew1234 Newbie

This article is completely bogus. I am afraid this guy just wants to sell the "alpha program" to as many unsuspecting people as he can. First of all he states that the prevelance of celiac disease is 1% of the population. In fact research says that it's not higher than 1/250. Then in the preface it says that the prevelance of celiac disease is 20%. So which one's true?

I also like this statement: "the prevelance of celiac disease is 17.2% in first-degree relatives, 19.5% in second-degree relatives". So he says it's higher in second degree relatives than first degree. That doesn't make sense if it follows normal genetic inheritance. Than he goes on to state that intestinal biopsy shouldn't be required to diagnose "gluten allergy", whatever that is. Well that's not true either, since the biospy will show if there are Th/Tc lymphocytes in the mucosal layer. This is diagnostic for celiac disease, and signifies that the epithileal layer is inflammed. Without inflammation you can't be allergic to something can you?

His statement that many diseases including diabetes, schizophrenia, rheumatoid arthritis, etc are caused by a delayed pattern of food allergy are unsubstantuated and proeven incorrect by research.

The qoute that he supposedly takes from a research from "Mulder and Tygart" is for selective IGA deficiency and not celiac disease. ctually I couldn't even find this research on Pubmed so I think it's just made up.

Well I could go on, but it's obvious that tis article is just designed to con people into buying Stephen

Gislasson MD's book and program.

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plantime Contributor

Reads like an advertisement to me.

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mle-ii Explorer
This article is completely bogus. I am afraid this guy just wants to sell the "alpha program" to as many unsuspecting people as he can. First of all he states that the prevelance of celiac disease is 1% of the population. In fact research says that it's not higher than 1/250. Then in the preface it says that the prevelance of celiac disease is 20%. So which one's true?

I also like this statement: "the prevelance of celiac disease is 17.2% in first-degree relatives, 19.5% in second-degree relatives". So he says it's higher in second degree relatives than first degree. That doesn't make sense if it follows normal genetic inheritance. Than he goes on to state that intestinal biopsy shouldn't be required to diagnose "gluten allergy", whatever that is. Well that's not true either, since the biospy will show if there are Th/Tc lymphocytes in the mucosal layer. This is diagnostic for celiac disease, and signifies that the epithileal layer is inflammed. Without inflammation you can't be allergic to something can you?

His statement that many diseases including diabetes, schizophrenia, rheumatoid arthritis, etc are caused by a delayed pattern of food allergy are unsubstantuated and proeven incorrect by research.

The qoute that he supposedly takes from a research from "Mulder and Tygart" is for selective IGA deficiency and not celiac disease. ctually I couldn't even find this research on Pubmed so I think it's just made up.

Well I could go on, but it's obvious that tis article is just designed to con people into buying Stephen

Gislasson MD's book and program.

Haven't read the article yet, but most of the things you've found wrong sound true to me. As far as the percentages go, I couldn't believe 20%, though going through pubmed I have seen mention of 1/100 thus 1%.

This is diagnostic for celiac disease, and signifies that the epithileal layer is inflammed. Without inflammation you can't be allergic to something can you?

If your immune system were impared there might be no or insignificant amount of inflamation. Thus one might be allergic without inflamation.

His statement that many diseases including diabetes, schizophrenia, rheumatoid arthritis, etc are caused by a delayed pattern of food allergy are unsubstantuated and proeven incorrect by research.

Proven incorrect, really? I've not seen it proven correct, but proven incorrect. Are you sure? What research has proven this incorrect?

How about this:

High prevalence of celiac disease among patients with insulin-dependent (type I) diabetes mellitus.

Open Original Shared Link

And it might be a bit of a stretch, but I can see how these diseases might be caused by food allergery. Specfically, the food in question (say gluten for us), causes damage to the villi. The damaged villi are then unable to absorb vitamins/minerals/nutrients our body needs, thus leading to other diseases.

Clearly, there's stuff in here used to sell their product, but there is some truth there, just gotta know where to dig. ;)

Thanks,

Mike

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rinne Apprentice
His statement that many diseases including diabetes, schizophrenia, rheumatoid arthritis, etc are caused by a delayed pattern of food allergy are unsubstantuated and proeven incorrect by research.

I notice that on this forum there are many people who's signatures include other diagnoses and it seems that a diagnosis of Celiac for far too many people is only made after years of being sick. I was under the impression that the cascade of illnessess that befalls Celiacs was as a result of being simultaneously poisoned and starved and that these illnesses are in the auto-immune family. Perhaps Ursula could say something about this as she is very knowledgeable and I am just a newbie. (Please excuse me if I have put on you the spot Ursula, I know you are busy with your nephew. :) )

I thought the article made many good points and I suspect there is truth in what he is saying. I've heard 1 in 6 people have digestion problems, certainly the advertising on T.V. would indicate that many people are looking for relief from gastro-intestinal issues. I also thought he was selling something and that something was the promise that through (his) diet people may regain their health, perhaps there is benefit in his program but before I spent any money I would look into it more thoroughly.

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trents Grand Master

Thanks for your observations, Andrew. You are correct in that there are a number of informational contradictions/discrepancies/errors in that article and, yes, they are trying to sell something but the big picture of what they are saying seems to ring true with our experience. By that I mean they seem to grasp that gluten sensitivity may not be a single, well-defined disease but a varitey of maladies and might be better viewed as a syndrome. By the way, some experts are definitely saying of late that the incidence of gluten sensitvity in the U.S. is closer to 1/100 than 1/250.

Steve

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ravenwoodglass Mentor
His statement that many diseases including diabetes, schizophrenia, rheumatoid arthritis, etc are caused by a delayed pattern of food allergy are unsubstantuated and proeven incorrect by research.

I strongly agree with the author on this. My doctor has confirmed that my recent diagnosis of diabetes was a direct result of my misdiagnosis for years when the problem was celiac. I have seen the mental effects of undiagnosed celiac in myself and others, including strong Schizophrenic ideation in one of my children with a resolution of mental difficulties off gluten. I also have had a complete remission of my arthritis since my diagnosis. There is quite a bit of good info in this article and I don't think he should be critized for offering to sell gluten free diet products and info anymore than celiac. com should be.

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andrew1234 Newbie

Mike,

allergy=inflammation. They're 2 terms which are used interchangably. One is a medical term while the other is the common name. You can't have allergy/inflammation without charatherisitc cells being present (lymphocytes, neutrophils, mast cells etc.) because these are the cells that release substances which damage tissues and cause the inflammation/allergy. Hence this is why the endoscopy is so important, if there are no lymphocytes in the epitheleal layer than you simply can't be allergic. It's physical impossible, because there are no cells to damage the tissues. Hence this term of "gluten allergy" is not medically accepted because when one looks at the tissues under a microscope from and endoscopy there's no allergy.

Ofcourse, in real life many people say that the gluten free diet works for them. I guess your the ultimate judge of what's going on in your body and if the gluten free diet is working than why stop?

Andrew

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andrew1234 Newbie

Also, when you have 2 diseases at the same time that doesn't mean that one disease causes the other. Both Diabetes type I and celiac disease are autoimmune diseases which means that they're caused by abnormal functioning of the immune system. These are usually caused by mutation of genes that control lymphocytes, i.e. HLA genes. If you have a mutation in HLA genes than this can cause both Diabetes/Thryoid/celiac disease/arthritis etc. all at the same time, because you immune system goes out of whack and starts attacking self tissues.

It doesn't mean that celiac disease caused diabetes.

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ravenwoodglass Mentor
Also, when you have 2 diseases at the same time that doesn't mean that one disease causes the other. Both Diabetes type I and celiac disease are autoimmune diseases which means that they're caused by abnormal functioning of the immune system. These are usually caused by mutation of genes that control lymphocytes, i.e. HLA genes. If you have a mutation in HLA genes than this can cause both Diabetes/Thryoid/celiac disease/arthritis etc. all at the same time, because you immune system goes out of whack and starts attacking self tissues.

It doesn't mean that celiac disease caused diabetes.

I can't speak for all but in my case the inflamatory reaction in my bloodsteam and the autoimmune response that it caused attacked my pancreas. If I had been diagnosed promptly with celiac I would not have developed diabetes or arthritis. Celiac and the bodies immune response to a poison that infiltrates the bloodstream and thus all organs and tissues was directly responsible for that. The years of misdiagnosis are definately the reason for both. By the way although my joint destruction still remains after 4 years on the gluten free diet I have no arthritic discomfort, any at all. Perhaps my 'genetic mutation' for arthritis reversed? I don't think so.

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mle-ii Explorer
Mike,

allergy=inflammation. They're 2 terms which are used interchangably. One is a medical term while the other is the common name. You can't have allergy/inflammation without charatherisitc cells being present (lymphocytes, neutrophils, mast cells etc.) because these are the cells that release substances which damage tissues and cause the inflammation/allergy. Hence this is why the endoscopy is so important, if there are no lymphocytes in the epitheleal layer than you simply can't be allergic. It's physical impossible, because there are no cells to damage the tissues. Hence this term of "gluten allergy" is not medically accepted because when one looks at the tissues under a microscope from and endoscopy there's no allergy.

Ofcourse, in real life many people say that the gluten free diet works for them. I guess your the ultimate judge of what's going on in your body and if the gluten free diet is working than why stop?

Andrew

Andrew,

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that Allergy wouldn't cause inflamation. But not all inflamation of tissue is caused by allergy. That and an Allergy can be present without inflamation, that is if the allergen isn't present. Finally my point was that the amount of inflamation occuring in someone with an impared immune system might be so small as to be very hard to detect.

Mike

Also, when you have 2 diseases at the same time that doesn't mean that one disease causes the other. Both Diabetes type I and celiac disease are autoimmune diseases which means that they're caused by abnormal functioning of the immune system. These are usually caused by mutation of genes that control lymphocytes, i.e. HLA genes. If you have a mutation in HLA genes than this can cause both Diabetes/Thryoid/celiac disease/arthritis etc. all at the same time, because you immune system goes out of whack and starts attacking self tissues.

It doesn't mean that celiac disease caused diabetes.

Right, doesn't mean that one causes the other, but then in the same instance it doesn't mean that one didn't cause the other. The potential is there.

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Ursa Major Collaborator

A few thoughts: I feel (and mind you, this is just my own opinion here), that gluten causes both inflammation with me (my stomach gets inflamed as soon as I consume it), and an intolerance (intestinal damage). When I was so ill last summer, my stomach was very inflamed, and for weeks I had such a terrible stomach ache (right under my breastbone), that I had trouble sleeping and was afraid to eat anything, and was doubled over with pain much of the time.

The stomach ache is still the first symptom when glutened, alleviated by a homeopathic remedy called stevia, which is a natural anti-inflammatory. Last year the diarrhea followed within fifteen to twenty minutes, now I won't get D for about a week after glutened.

Of course, it may be the grain itself that causes the inflammation, some part of it other than the gluten, who knows. I had testing done for intolerances about five years ago, and no grains showed up. I had allergy testing done about 15 years ago, same thing. One of my daughters was intolerant, but not allergic, to wheat.

As for celiac disease causing other autoimmune diseases and psychiatric illnesses, I believe that there is plenty of evidence to show that to be true. Of course, the pharmaceutical companies don't want anybody to believe that, because where would they be if people would try to cure their illnesses with diet rather than cover up their symptoms with their medications? Therefore, they try their very best to put out the word that anybody who believes this 'myth' must be a quack. And since nobody wants to be looked upon as a quack, doctors are doing a good job of aiding them in their quest of pushing their drugs and covering up the truth.

As for the endoscopy being the ultimate proof for celiac disease, it simply isn't so. Since they never go all the way down the small intestine to search for damage, in a great many cases it is missed. In reality, the diet challenge is the ultimate test, and the next best one after that is the stool test, as it is the simplest and most accurate one. Would that the medical colleges, doctors and insurance companies would open their closed-minded brains and acknowledge that fact.

As for those people wanting to sell their product, I see no harm in that. I ignore it, as I have no need of it. But Scott here is also selling gluten-free foods and other products to help us and himself (as he has celiac disease as well). He is providing a great service with both the site, the information he freely gives, and the things he sells. If you truly believe in a product, why not try to get other people to use it too? Not many people can afford to give things away, and therefore have to sell whatever it is they want to help people with. That doesn't make them evil any more than your shoestore owner searching out the best shoes, and wanting you to buy them from him.

As for the possibility that there are 20 people in one hundred with gluten intolerance, I believe that it is likely very close to the truth (and possibly even still an underestimation). We see people all around us who I believe are suffering because they have been brainwashed into believing that grains are necessary for our good health, all the while being poisoned. Anybody who is really ill would do well to try a grain-free diet for a while, and I believe a great many of them would get well.

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rinne Apprentice

Ursula, you rock. :)

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rumbles Newbie

Peter H.R.Green, M.D. in Celiac Disease A Hidden Epidemic (Copyright 2006, ISBN-13: 978-0-06-076693-1, appears to agree with the basic statistics that Stephen Gislason states: (page 190) “Offspring and more distant relatives were also at higher risk (15 percent of offspring, 20 percent of second-degree relatives, and 17 percent of first cousins).” Dr. Green states that, “Studies have shown that the prevalence of celiac disease is 10 to 12 percent in first-degree relatives.” (Statistics will vary depending on which tests are being referenced and for what reasons.) Dr. Green also states in his introduction (page 3) that, “only recently have studies shown that celiac disease affects approximately 1 percent of the U.S. population (approximately 1 in every 100 people) – and 97 percent of them are undiagnosed.”

Additional information from Dr. Green in Celiac Disease A Hidden Epidemic:

(page 190) “ . . . who initially have negative blood work may become positive some

some years later. We recommend that these at-risk groups have repeat testing every

three to five years if the initial serology is negative.”

(page 127) regarding dermatitis herpetiformis: “Patients do not need a small bowel

biopsy unless they have clinical manifestations of small bowel disease.”

(page 127) “If you have a positive diagnosis of dermatitis herpetiformis, you have

celiac disease.” . . . “Since no tests in medicine are 100 percent, not everyone with

dermatitis herpetiformis will have a positive skin biopsy.”

(page 154) “There is some tantalizing evidence that having celiac disease actually

disposes people to having the second (or third) autoimmune disorder. The evidence

comes from a study demonstrating that the age of diagnosis of celiac disease

correlated with the risk of getting the associated autoimmune disorder.”

(I reference Dr. Green's book simply as it is the latest off-the-shelf book that I have purchased, and my most recently read; it is not meant to exclude other authors, - it is just the most recent, and hopefully the most up-to-date in my growing collection.)

As many members on this board will attest, there are personal reasons (such as future insurance coverage) as to why some people do not want to be tested for celiac disease, whether that is for the classic definition of the intestinal form of celiac disease or the skin form (dermatitis herpetiformis).

Dr. Gislason pretty clearly indicates that he is addressing not only classic celiac disease, but also gluten intolerance (“We believe that the prevalence of all forms of gluten allergy may be closer to 20%.”); unfortunately he has chosen to use the word allergy instead of intolerance.

Dr. Green, like other doctors, is saying that people that test negative need to repeat the tests years later, because the disease state does not show up in initial lab testing, only to present itself in positive tests at a later time. Lab testing measures a level of a component known to be present with specific biological conditions, - it is not the condition itself. The condition is present before the component reaches a level detectable via testing. Dr. Green is expanding on the medical belief that everyone with celiac disease needs to be on a gluten free diet. Dr. Green is stating his belief (and one that many on this board embrace) that all people that show signs of gluten intolerance (unfortunately called allergy) should be on a gluten free diet.

Now, it’s been awhile, but when I was in nursing school, the term allergy (allergic reaction) did not equal the term inflammation. Both are processes and responses, and while related, they are not the same definition. Nor are they specific to one area of the body. The positive intestinal biopsy (result) of classic celiac disease is quite different from the positive immunofluorescence granular pattern used to diagnose dermatitis herpetiformis; both are medically determined to be forms of celiac disease. The absence of one does not negate the other, nor negate the presence of celiac disease.

The medical community is only now opening their thoughts that celiac disease and gluten intolerance may encompass more systems, organs, symptoms and disease processes than has been believed pretty much since classic coeliac disease was first described in 1888 by Samuel Gee and it’s link to dermatitis herpetiformis was discovered by Janet Marks in 1967. As the disease processes are better documented, researched and understood, there will be theories, some documented, some based on fact, some not, and some not based on fact until fact is proven. Dr. Gislason’s efforts to create discussion and interest among the community (medical or otherwise, with or without attempting to sell a product), should be commended, as it is awareness and discussion that will eventually bring this condition the recognition, attention and focus that it deserves.

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Ursa Major Collaborator

Well said. Thanks for taking the time to find your quotes of Dr. Green's book, I was too lazy to do the same. :rolleyes:

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eleep Enthusiast

You know, I looked at that site again and some of it seems pulled from an article I did get off of Pubmed a while back -- this may be a bad cut and paste job.

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andrew1234 Newbie

Jerseygirl,

First of all what's this "gluten intolerance"? "Intolerance" means something is not digested in the intestines. As it's not digested it draws water into the lumen of the intestine and produces osmotic diarrhea. For example lactose intolerance. Obviously that doesn't happen in celiac disease as gluten is digested until there's immune mediated damage to the villi. By intolerance do you mean that gluten is a "direct" poison to the cells of the intestines. There's no evidence of that either. Or do you mean that gluten is an indirect poison i.e. it causes immune mediated damage to the intestines? Well in that case you would see inflammation/inflammatory cells/edema and over time villous atrohpy/scarring. But in people who claim to have gluten intolerance there are no inflammatory cells and the villi are normal. So then what's gluten intolerance?

In DH you also see the effects of inflammation/inflammatory cells in response to IgA deposition, so that's not some mysterious condition either. It's obvious that some people (Dr. Gliasson) use the term gluten intolerance to expand the number of his potential costumer base to as many people as possible. In effect what he says is that if you have any kind of diarrhea/abdominal complaint , than buy my product it will get all better, of course he doesn't say that directly, he just says that 20% of the population is "gluten intolerant".

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Rachel--24 Collaborator

Andrew,

I am guessing you are either a doctor or studying to become one??

The reason I say this is from reading a few of your posts I gather that you are very limited in your research. You sound alot like the so-called doctors I saw over 2 years while my health continued to deteriorate. Its almost like tunnel vision....they learn what is in their medical text books....and thats it. That doesnt go very far in the real world. There is still much more to be learned about gluten intolerance. And yes, there is such a thing, gluten intolerance w/out having Celiac.

If I am right in my assumption then I would have to add that if you expand your knowledge beyond what you have learned or are currently learning in med school you will be a great asset to those who are undiagnosed. If you continue to have the attitude that you know it all....then you will fail alot of patients as my doctors failed me.

I was able to improve my health on my own....using valuable resources...one of them being this message board. You can broaden your horizons here, or may I suggest a book ...have you read "Dangerous Grains"? I highly recommend it.

I was lucky to find a great doctor that is knowledgeable and up to date in his research re: Gluten Intolerance. Not just Celiac but Non-Celiac Gluten Intolerance.

Gluten Intolerance is not limited to Celiac Disease. When a persons immune system is building anti-gliadin antibodies some amount of damage is occurring somewhere in that persons body due to the immune response to consumption of gluten. Do you really believe that this is limited to a small area of the intestine in which a few samples are biopsied? Damage can and does occur anywhere in the body....inflammation can occur outside of the intestines as a direct result of gluten intolerance.

I have read some of your posts (possibly on another thread) which imply that some people here are hypochondriachs or suggesting that a negative biopsy proves there is no gluten intolerance. Frankly, I am appalled that you would make such bold statements when you clearly are very limited in your knowledge on the subject. I hope you are able to learn alot from the members of this board. Of course you are entitled to your opinions however, if your sole purpose is to suggest we are all hypochondriachs and to "downplay" other member's concerns regarding cross contamination, etc...it is not very useful to the board.

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penguin Community Regular
It's obvious that some people (Dr. Gliasson) use the term gluten intolerance to expand the number of his potential costumer base to as many people as possible.

My own gastroenterologist, who gets much of his celiac knowledge from Dr. Green, whom you yourself quoted, uses the term gluten intolerance. It simply means that people have all of the symptoms of celiac disease, and are relieved by the gluten-free diet, but are not clinically proven through current testing methods to have the villous atrophy of celiac disease. It may also mean that damage was not widespread enough or was in an area the scope could not reach. Add this to the fact that many doctors don't test correctly, either by ordering an incomplete blood panel or not enough biopsy samples.

It has also been proven that having one autoimmune disorder leads to others because of the faulty immune system. It's not that celiac causes diabetes or whatever, it's that the system is already hyperactive and starts attacking other tissues, especially when one or more of these conditions goes untreated.

You're welcome to your opinion.

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Rachel--24 Collaborator
. It's obvious that some people (Dr. Gliasson) use the term gluten intolerance to expand the number of his potential costumer base to as many people as possible. In effect what he says is that if you have any kind of diarrhea/abdominal complaint , than buy my product it will get all better, of course he doesn't say that directly, he just says that 20% of the population is "gluten intolerant".

Just because the man is trying to sell a product doesnt necessarily mean that the statistics he's giving re: gluten intolerance are bogus. My own doctor has stated the studies are showing as much as 60% of the population in the US are gluten intolerant. Yes, only 1% are Celiac but the larger percentage represents those who's health are being negatively affected by consuming gluten. This means that there are specific antibodies detected which clearly indicate an immune response to gluten. Alot of these people are sub-clinical...meaning they have no obvious symptoms of inflammation or distress. Regardless of lack of symptoms...gluten intolerance causes inflammation and eventually that inflammation is going to lead to symptoms and/or possible additional autoimmune conditions. A great number of people will experience health benefits from a gluten-free diet. Whether or not the inflammatory response to gluten is *seen* by a doctor via biopsy or not...it is still occurring. The antibodies arent present for no good reason...they are there because the immune system is targeting gluten....period.

Both GI's I have seen have recognized gluten intolerance as being a problem...even in the incidence of negative bloodwork and/or biopsy. These tests, for one thing, are not foolproof...especially the biopsy (which has a high rate of false negatives). Two people can present with identical symptoms and only one may test positive for Celiac. If both patients recover from all symptoms when gluten is removed from the diet...would you conclude that the patient with the negative biopsy has "made up" their illness??

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rumbles Newbie

Andrew1234,

It appears that are under the belief that the textbook(s) you are looking at are the 100% absolute, complete and accurate definition of all aspects past, present and future of celiac disease and any and all conditions that could possibly be caused by the indigestible 23 amino acid peptide chain of gliadin being abnormally absorbed in the digestive tract.

While flattened villi are the gold standard of classic celiac disease, DH often does not have this manifestation. If you want to dispute the scientific determination that DH is a from of celiac disease, because there often is no signs of intestinal damage, or that damage cannot be occurring in other parts of the body because there is not obvious atrophy of the villi, this is not the forum for your dispute.

If DH is a form of celiac disease, and it is not always associated with damage to the villi, then the logical conclusion is that either the gliadin peptide chain is crossing the semi-permeable membrane without causing the classic celiac inflammatory response to the villi, or there is a by-product that has yet to be identified that is crossing the membrane, either of which is creating an undesirable response in other parts of the body. That undesirable response may or may not be a classic inflammatory response. If it is an inflammatory response(s), the current testing methods may not yet be looking for the reaction or pattern to identify that response.

I have yet to find in my reference books anywhere that states that intolerance is specific to the intestinal tract.

If you are here to dispute celiac disease, DH or to invalidate what the people on this message board have lived through and live through on a daily basis, you are off base.

After spending almost fifty years going from doctor to doctor to doctor before finding the cause and finally for the first time in my life being symptom-free (including nine years of being treated for SLE-like symptoms, including positive ANA testing results, plus arthritis, sicca, reynauds phenomenon and FMS), I don’t have time for childish banter by someone that comes off as insisting that they are right and the rest of the community is wrong. As far as I’m concerned, this discussion is over.

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eKatherine Rookie
Jerseygirl,

First of all what's this "gluten intolerance"? "Intolerance" means something is not digested in the intestines. As it's not digested it draws water into the lumen of the intestine and produces osmotic diarrhea. For example lactose intolerance. Obviously that doesn't happen in celiac disease as gluten is digested until there's immune mediated damage to the villi. By intolerance do you mean that gluten is a "direct" poison to the cells of the intestines. There's no evidence of that either. Or do you mean that gluten is an indirect poison i.e. it causes immune mediated damage to the intestines? Well in that case you would see inflammation/inflammatory cells/edema and over time villous atrohpy/scarring. But in people who claim to have gluten intolerance there are no inflammatory cells and the villi are normal. So then what's gluten intolerance?

In DH you also see the effects of inflammation/inflammatory cells in response to IgA deposition, so that's not some mysterious condition either. It's obvious that some people (Dr. Gliasson) use the term gluten intolerance to expand the number of his potential costumer base to as many people as possible. In effect what he says is that if you have any kind of diarrhea/abdominal complaint , than buy my product it will get all better, of course he doesn't say that directly, he just says that 20% of the population is "gluten intolerant".

Andrew, it looks like your issue is with the English language and the words that happen to represent certain concepts. You have editor's complex - the idea that you can decide what you want a word to mean, based on some sort of personal logic. I'm a linguist. If you'd like to discuss that, it is off-topic and probably should be taken off-line.

A seriously ill person is still sick whether you like or don't like standard terminology.

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Rachel--24 Collaborator
While flattened villi are the gold standard of classic celiac disease, DH often does not have this manifestation. If you want to dispute the scientific determination that DH is a from of celiac disease, because there often is no signs of intestinal damage, or that damage cannot be occurring in other parts of the body because there is not obvious atrophy of the villi, this is not the forum for your dispute.

I have yet to find in my reference books anywhere that states that intolerance is specific to the intestinal tract.

Great post JerseyGirl!

I agree with every word 100%

Andrew is quoting his textbooks which are outdated and his posts show that his knowledge is limited to what he's read in these outdated books. We can only hope that he aquires more knowledge on the subject before he has patients under his care. I would RUN from a doctor with this narrow-minded line of thinking.

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    • knitty kitty
      Welcome to the forum, @LimpToeTheTimeless Bone growth plates close in the late teens to early twenties, so it's doubtful you'll grow much taller, but you may start to bulk up in muscle.  Remember to boost your absorption of vitamins and minerals needed to build muscle by eating a nutritionally dense diet and supplementing with essential vitamins and minerals, especially Thiamine B1, to counteract the malabsorption caused by Celiac Disease. Keep us posted on your progress! References: The effects of endurance training and thiamine supplementation on anti-fatigue during exercise https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4241913/ A functional evaluation of anti-fatigue and exercise performance improvement following vitamin B complex supplementation in healthy humans, a randomized double-blind trial https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10542023/
    • B1rdL0ver
    • shadycharacter
      Fermentation breaks down some of the gluten in wheat. Nowhere enough for a wheat dough to become gluten free, but the gluten may be significantly reduced. I think some pizzerias make the dough the day before and leave it overnight. The longer the microbes are acting on the flour, the better.
    • LimpToeTheTimeless
      I am M 21 and I diagnosed myself after a week of fasting and slowly reintroducing stuff in my diet except gluten, I had terrible eczema scars ,dandruff and brain fog, now I am free after 6 years of just pain, I am 6'2, will I grow taller? And since I am a gymnast will my muscles grow like quicker, cause before no matter how effort I put in I just couldn't. 
    • trents
      And the fact is, no two celiacs will necessarily respond the same to gluten exposure. Some are "silent" celiacs and don't experience obvious symptoms. But that doesn't mean no harm is being done to their gut. It just means it is subclinical. 
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