Ncgi, Malabsorption And Depression

[MashedSpud]

It seems celiac disease doesn't run in my family. But after being on a gluten-free diet for 12 days or so I know that gluten plays up with me. Now, I've suffered from fairly severe depression pretty much all my adult life, and it doesn't seem to respond to antidepressants. So I'm starting to wonder whether gluten intolerance really is contributing to the depression & anxiety. There are a few posts here from people that were on antidepressants, got glutened and fell into deep depression even while taking the meds. However the only link between gluten and depression I've read about is to do with nutrient/vitamin deficiencies. So if NCGI isn't an autoimmune response, and apparently doesn't cause the intestinal damage that celiac does, how does gluten cause malabsorption issues in NCGI?

[GF Lover]

Hi Spud.

 

There are very many people on this site who are either celiac or NCGI who have symptoms of depression, anxiety, etc. have had their issues get significantly better or resolve completely.  If you look at my signature line you will see Bi-Polar, Depression listed there.  Aside from that I suffered with many more satellite conditions like OCD, GAD and the like.  Since I went gluten free I have tapered down from 7 anti-depressants, anti-psychotics and anxiety meds to 1 low dose of an anti-depressant and I should be able to eliminate that soon.  I've gone from being hospitalized for my bi-polar to completely stable with my mental health issues.  

 

I believe there is research that discusses this issue but at this early hour I still need more coffee.  I'm sure other members will add to the discussion.  This did not happen overnight for me as my condition was severe but did happen over time.  

 

All the best,

 

Colleen

[MashedSpud]

Thanks for the reply Colleen. It gives me little hope that things might get better. I'm interested in the link between celiac/gluten intolerance & depression because it could be the celiac caused the depression or vice versa. We need more research in this area as current studies show such a strong link between the two!

[GFinDC]

Hi Spud,

 

NCGI may be an immune response, but not the same type of immune response that is active in celiac disease.

 

Very little is really known for sure about NCGI.  The studies referenced in the articles below say that the symptoms of NCGI and celiac are the same.  Why and how they get to be the same is not known.  We may know a lot more about NCGI in the years ahead, including the whys and what-fors.  But for now we are not there.

 

Non-celiac wheat sensitivity article
https://www.celiac.com/articles/23033/1/Non-Celiac-Wheat-Sensitivity-It-Exists/Page1.html

Innate immune response in AI diseases
https://www.celiac.com/articles/23149/1/Gliadin-Triggers-Innate-Immune-Reaction-in-Celiac-and-Non-celiac-Individuals/Page1.html
 

[MashedSpud]

Ahh, thank you GFinDC. I had read the first article but not the second. Interesting about the pest resistance molecules (maybe) being involved.

[GFinDC]

You are welcome Spudinator!

 

I don't know if you have read about the so called leaky gut issue and the possible zonulin influence on it?  In celiac disease the intestinal barrier works differently than it does in non-celiacs.  There is a tendency for larger particles of proteins to get through the gut layer.  Those particles can wander around and affect different parts of the body, via the blood stream.  So that might be true in NCGI also, and a possible explanation for depression symptoms.  There are articles about gluten fragments affects resembling opioids affects on the brain.  That is a possible explanation I figure.  I am not a researcher or doctor so those are just my big thinks on the subject.  Even in celiac disease, the symptoms are often not localized in the gut, but can be spread throughout the body.  There are quite a few people who have neural symptoms but no gut symptoms too.  So the affects are not limited to the gut.  Could zonulin be "off" in NCGI like it is in celiac?  Maybe, we don't know.  or maybe there is a similar issue in NCGI but a different process.  NCGI may be very similar to celiac but not involve the gut attack that occurs in celiac.  This is all just speculation tho.  But that's about all we have available at the moment.

 

 

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And then in the mid-‘80s, a group of Japanese scientists said, well, actually the spacing between cells is not cemented.  They are doors, almost always closed, but they are doors.  And that was quite an interesting discovery.  And then over the years, more and more information came about, you know, how these doors are made, but what was the missing link was what kind of molecule, substance, or signal or whatever would modulate these doors so they can be opened and closed.  And that’s where we stumbled by mistake studying celiac disease that we make a molecule that we call zonulin that regulates the permeability of this space.  And again, through celiac disease we learned that this molecule is produced in excess, in an exaggerated fashion, by people with celiac disease, now finally explaining the inexplicable, how this protein can come through, because now if you have this door stuck open, everybody from the environment can sneak into our body, including gluten, and with that, trigger the autoimmune response.  So that led us to put forward this new paradigm in which the recipe for autoimmunity is made not by two, but three ingredients:  You have to be genetically predisposed, you have to have an environmental factor that is the instigator of the immune response, but at the same time you have to have a breach of this barrier so these two elements can interplay.

[GF Lover]

Geeeee F.

 

That is an excellent explanation and great information !!!!!  Thank You 

 

Colleen

[MashedSpud]

That is an excellent explanation and great information !!!!!  Thank You 

 

Seconded!

 

 

 

There are quite a few people who have neural symptoms but no gut symptoms too.  So the affects are not limited to the gut. 

 

Well that is what I'm thinking with me. As I mentioned I've had depression pretty much all my adult life. But psychs are having a hard time working out why I'm that way. After doing assessments I often get the "you have some very complex issues, but we don't know what they are" statement It's only been in the last few years that I've developed gut issues. But along with it has come some almost scary neurological symptoms. However within a day of going gluten free most of the notable ones have began to disappear. If only this brain fog would disappear too

[frieze]

Seconded!

 

 

 

Well that is what I'm thinking with me. As I mentioned I've had depression pretty much all my adult life. But psychs are having a hard time working out why I'm that way. After doing assessments I often get the "you have some very complex issues, but we don't know what they are" statement It's only been in the last few years that I've developed gut issues. But along with it has come some almost scary neurological symptoms. However within a day of going gluten free most of the notable ones have began to disappear. If only this brain fog would disappear too

abram hoffer, Canadian psychiatrist, orthomolecular....diet brain issues.  good luck

[GFinDC]

@Colleen,  well thanks!

 

Seconded!

 

 

 

Well that is what I'm thinking with me. As I mentioned I've had depression pretty much all my adult life. But psychs are having a hard time working out why I'm that way. After doing assessments I often get the "you have some very complex issues, but we don't know what they are" statement It's only been in the last few years that I've developed gut issues. But along with it has come some almost scary neurological symptoms. However within a day of going gluten free most of the notable ones have began to disappear. If only this brain fog would disappear too

 

@Spud,

 

Thanks to you too Spud.    Another possible issue is the gut generation of serotonin.  Serotonin is important for regulating mood in the brain.  But the gut makes even more serotonin than the brain does.   You can find more info by searching for "gut brain serotonin".  There was an article in the New York Times a while back talking about the gut, serotonin and bacteria.  It seems the gut can influence mood quite a bit.

 

Here is a recent article talking about mice with autism-like symptoms being resolved by adding a certain strain of gut bacteria.  Pretty amazing stuff for sure.

 

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A brain in the head, and one in the gut By Harriet Brown Published: Thursday, August 25, 2005

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