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sonja69

Devastated! Everything's Fine With Me?

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yes, Valda you are principally right.

but still it's confusing. I was not really well in germany, but much better, although I lived in a glutencontaminated home. as soon I come back to my flat here in sweden, I have the old symptoms as ever, and the most bothering is the bloating since I am feeling stuffed and full all the time although I am hungry and did not eat something. in sweden I am 'pregnant' again. this I had only occasional in germany. thus I am a little in doubt: I went glutenfree on december 6th and only the headache went away and the stomack shrunk a tiny bit. I flew to gemany on dec. 21st and a few days after my stool is not fatty anymore. stomach is flat. no more bloating, no fullness, only occasional nausea. So I have first a magical healing and then I go back to old symptoms as soon I am here in sweden, although my home here isn't as contaminated as that in germany and I did not change my diet very. this is weird and very confusing.

I can live without a diagnosis, but what I wrote above let me doubt if this is the gluten at all. maybe it is the mold problem. on the other hand, I had stomach issues forever, not that bad though, but anyway. and I found out on xmas vacation that my cusin has problems with diarrhea too, and my mother has stomach issues, and partly my halfsister as well. so weird.

(so now the title of my thread has become true again).

sorry, I had some mental breakdowns yesterday and today, because it's so hopeless.

thanks for listening/reading and for your support!!

Sonja

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I can see how confusing it must be for you. It took me years to isolate what my problem was, so I can relate.

If your diet has not changed and you had fewer and less severe symptoms when away from your home, and they become more severe in your home, then it starts to point to environment. Can you stay with a friend for a week and see if you improve again away from your apartment? If you had mold problems before, perhaps it is still there - or it could be something else.

While you're trying to find out what's causing the bloating, etc., I wouldn't change your diet (i.e.: go back to gluten). Keep it constant so that you can better analyse other factors.

This just popped into my mind - do you have a boyfriend? (I don't remember if you've mentioned your marrital status). If he eats gluten, and kisses you, then you get glutened. Just a thought :)

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hi Valda,

thanx for reading and answering.

No, unfortunately I cannot stay with a friend, but I will find what's the problem is. I might move soon from here anyway.

today it's a better day. at least a little bit. I thought more deeply and think it was the chicken, the handling of the wheat flour, the catfood, or maybe the rice cakes. they are different from them in germany. or there's something with the water, I can borrow a water filter from a friend to test it.

I am married and my husband lives in germany, therefore I was in germany. the kissing obviously was no problem ;)

I hope I will be better now, it's weekend soon, and I can maybe recover also from the flu I have.

thanx, best wishes,

Sonja

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hi!

another update (I see this thread as my little diary):

still feeling not good. I am gassy as hell and I have water collected in my intestines, it sound like I am on the 7 seas... and my pregnant look is back. maybe I should buy other clothes. unfortunately it's not funny, I could cry...

some positive is that on thursday, we had a party at work and my boss arranged gluten- and lactosefree food for me (happy), and I think it was okay, since I did not feel worse on friday or today. Sweden is very straightforward concerning glutenfree food and lactosefree foods, in germany this food is not that common and if, very expensive. I have not being out for dinner since being glutenfree.

what me surprises are the gasses. a long time this was not that bad, also before going glutenfree. now I am really gassy, although I avoid also fructose to a great part.

I checked some things:

a) the rice cakes are not really glutenfree, the company cannot garantee it. okay, no more rice cakes.

B) I read about flavoured tea and one has to be careful. I had two big cups on tuesday of flavoured black tee. nothing about the flavour on the label so I'll throw it away. I felt really bad on wednesday.

c) I bought coffee beans from another company today, I'll test it. (I had nausea after the 'old' coffee this morning).

d) I also bought bottled water to drink and making tea/coffee (I like herbal tee in te evening especially against the gasses).

I read also about glutencontaining soap? I use soap of course, but have not the package anymore. should I get rid of it?

when I was in germany, a friend noticed that my skin was much better then before, I didn't really noticed, but now my skin is in bad condition again. that's only my face being the problem.

well, we'll or I'll see how it's going...

have a nice weekend you all!!

best wishes, Sonja

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yes, I had a mold problem, but I think I have fixed it and find it hard to believe that bloating and gasses comes from mold.

and it does not seem to be the problem, since I got originally the idea of having problems with gluten through cutting out carbohydrates from my diet when I tried the Atkins diet. I felt really fine everytime I cut the carbs out (3 times), although I ate lactosefree cheese, milk, yoghurt... So, everytime I cut them out I felt fine but after reintroducing them, the problems were back. after some research I tried it with glutenfree.

Mold sensitivity can most definately lead to bloating and gasses! If you were exposed to mold for some time it would have weakened your immune system and very likely may have lead to a candida overgrowth.

Bloating, gas, gluten intolerance as well as other food intolerance, fatigue, brain-fog....they can all be caused by a yeast overgrowth. Exposure to toxic mold is a big trigger for causing problems with the immune system...and anything that weakens the immune system can trigger such things as Celiac and/or candida issues. Yeast overgrowth is quite common in people who are reacting to gluten.

Dairy products are also a problem for people with yeast issues...especially cheese. Lactose feeds yeast as do all forms of sugar and simple carbs.

I agree with the previous post that the mold in your home could have been a valid reason for feeling better away from home.

Interestingly, some researchers believe that candida is a trigger for Celiac and also a reason for continued symptoms while on a gluen free diet. They have found that the amino acid sequence that triggers the immune response to gluten is identical to the amino acid sequence in Candida Albicans.

This means that if candida is attached to your intestinal wall....your immune system could be reacting to it the same way that it would react to gluten.....leading you to believe that you are constantly glutening yourself. Candida overgrowth also causes leaky gut which further compounds the problem by causing even more food intolerances.

Now we come to what to me is the most interesting of the recent research regarding celiac. It seems fitting that the research again comes from Holland , where celiac disease was first linked to diet. Dr. Nieuwenhuizen, from the research group TNO Nutrition and Food Research, published a paper in the June, 2003, Lancet. He links celiac disease with Candida albicans. Dr. Nieuwenhuizen, knowing the actual sequence of proteins which trigger celiac disease from the published work of other scientists, had searched the databases available to him through TNO to see if the same sequence existed in other places. It turns out the identical sequence of proteins occur in the cell walls of Candida albicans. [15]

These Candida gluten-like proteins turn out to be the yeast's "hypha-specific surface protein" nicknamed Hwp1. This is the yeast's version of Velcro and allows it to attach and hang onto the endomysium in the wall of the intestine. It is also targeted by transglutaminase, the enzyme which acts on the gluten protein and serves as a target for immune antibodies. Candida species which don't have this Hwp1 protein can't attach themselves to the digestive tract. [16]

If Candida can trigger the same chemical and immunological reactions as wheat gluten do we can imagine a number of interesting implications.

First, in people with celiac disease, symptoms usually get better rapidly when they eliminate gluten from their diet. This isn't always the case. Even without gluten some people continue to have symptoms. They may have intestinal Candidiasis. The Candida in their gut may be acting like gluten and continues triggering symptoms.

Second, an acute Candida infection may trigger the onset of celiac disease. Even if the Candida is treated and eliminated, the person could be left with a permanent sensitivity to wheat gluten.

Candida infections occur frequently with antibiotic usage. In people genetically susceptible to celiac, extra caution should be exercised when using antibiotics to prevent Candida overgrowth.

Third, if wheat can cause neurological damage as in gluten ataxia, it is reasonable to assume that Candida could also do so by the same process. Reports of Candida infections causing neurological symptoms are not uncommon; now we have a possible explanation.

Fourth, if only a small portion of the people with gluten ataxia have gastrointestinal symptoms despite their severe damage elsewhere in their bodies, it is reasonable to assume that Candida could stimulate significant problems while producing slight or no digestive symptoms.

So what does all this mean? Here's my bottom line:

Celiac disease may be grossly under diagnosed. It should be ruled out in any chronic digestive condition even if the symptoms don't fit the classic picture. Celiac disease should also be ruled out in osteoporosis and in neurological problems, especially MS. Celiac disease should also be ruled out in Hashimoto's Disease and other thyroid abnormalities. Whenever Celiac disease is diagnosed, Candida infections should be tested for and treated aggressively. People of Irish descent are far more likely to get celiac disease than others and should be extra cautious to avoid Candida infections and treat them aggressively if they occur.

"Is Candida albicans a trigger in the onset of celiac disease?"

This interesting study compares a specific amino acid sequence found in Candida cell wall protein to a gliadin amino acid sequence that triggers the immune response in celiac disease.The researchers found that the sequences are “identical or highly homologous to known celiac disease-related alpha-gliadin and gamma-gliadin T-cell epitopes,” and PROPOSE THAT CANDIDA IS THE TRIGGER FOR CELIAC DISEASE....Lancet. 2003 Jun 21;361(9375):2152-4.

Coeliac disease is a T-cell-mediated autoimmune disease of the small intestine that is induced by ingestion of gluten proteins from wheat, barley, or rye. We postulate that Candida albicans is a trigger in the onset of coeliac disease. The virulence factor of C albicans-hyphal wall protein 1 (HWP1)-contains aminoacid sequences that are identical or highly homologous to known coeliac disease-related alpha-gliadin and gamma-gliadin T-cell epitopes. HWP1 is a transglutaminase substrate, and is used by C albicans to adhere to the intestinal epithelium. Furthermore, tissue transglutaminase and endomysium components could become covalently linked to the yeast. Subsequently, C albicans might function as an adjuvant that stimulates antibody formation against HWP1 and gluten, and formation of autoreactive antibodies against tissue transglutaminase and endomysium.

So...I would have to say that a problem with mold in your home could very well have led to your troubles and if you have candida your immune system *may* be reacting to that infection rather than the presence of gluten....since you are now gluten-free.

This research seems to be fairly recent but if it proves to be true...it could explain why some people dont improve in the same way that others do after the removal of gluten grains from their diet.

Either way...candida is frequently seen in patients with Celiac Disease and gluten intolerance.....and two of the most common symptoms of candida overgrowth are bloating and gas.

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Another thought.

You say you are now even more gassy after going gluten-free??

Are you eating alot of corn products?? After eliminating gluten we tend to rely heavily on corn....which happens to be the the grain which has the highest amount of fungi and mold and will most certainly worsen a candida yeast problem....this would lead to more gas.

Some feel that the yeast, Candida albicans, may be the cause of Celiac disease, also known as Sprue, or gluten-sensitive enteropathy.10 Celiac disease, doctors presume, is caused by a reaction to a protein particle called gluten that exists in certain grains.

Ironically, corn is a grain that does not contain gluten. It therefore falls in the "okay to eat" list offered by conventional practitioners and dieticians. Little do most practitioners know that corn is universally contaminated with mycotoxins.

So, over-consuming corn, as so many Celiac patients do since they have few other choices of grains in their diet, is likely to propagate the illness.

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Hi Rachel,

thanks for all hints, ideas, thoughts.

I often thought about candida and also tokk medicine against it for a while, but I do not really belive, it's candida.

as I wrote,I was so much better in germany, but being here at my home again, I was immediatly sick again. I did no change the diet, i.e. I ate the same food (like gluten-free bread, cakes) from the same companies in germany as well as here in sweden, albeit some exceptions as the rice cakes, the flavoured tea, the lactosefree milk.

I am a little bit better today concerning the stomach pain, but still not as well as before. maybe it will be harder and longer for the body to recover after a mistake....

I check my flat, there are no more signs of mold anymore. I fixed this problem around 1 1/2 years ago.

yeah, yeah,

best wishes,

Sonja

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Hi Rachel,

thanks for all hints, ideas, thoughts.

I often thought about candida and also tokk medicine against it for a while, but I do not really belive, it's candida.

as I wrote,I was so much better in germany, but being here at my home again, I was immediatly sick again. I did no change the diet, i.e. I ate the same food (like gluten-free bread, cakes) from the same companies in germany as well as here in sweden, albeit some exceptions as the rice cakes, the flavoured tea, the lactosefree milk.

I am a little bit better today concerning the stomach pain, but still not as well as before. maybe it will be harder and longer for the body to recover after a mistake....

I check my flat, there are no more signs of mold anymore. I fixed this problem around 1 1/2 years ago.

yeah, yeah,

best wishes,

Sonja

Just a further thought... if you are sensitive to molds, you could be sensitive to foods that have a tendency to harbour mold as well. Common food sources of mold:

Cheese

Mushrooms

Vinegar and foods containing vinegar, such as salad dressing, catsup and pickles

Sour cream, sour milk and buttermilk

Beer and wine

Meat or fish more than 24 hours old

Sour breads, such as pumpernickel, and other food made with a lot of yeast

Sauerkraut

Pickled and smoked meats and fish

Dried fruits such as dates, prunes, figs and raisins

I have also heard that nuts (especially nut butters), fruit and grains can harbour mold spores.

Here is a link I found that talks about the various types of mold, and where they are found: http://www.oldwestport.com/allergy/mold_info.php

In addition, mold and mildew are found in many places in the home...you don't need a visible sign of mold growth for it to be around you (in fact, it's impossible to completely remove the spores from your home.) When I was diagnosed with mold and mildew allergies, it was recommended that I remove any house plants and aquariums from my home. Have a hard time doing it, though, because fish were the pets we chose to keep due to our dander allergies. :)

Michelle

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Yup....and to add to that list

cantaloupes and other fruits have a high mold content.

Like Michelle said....you dont have to *see* mold in order for it to be a problem. I always get suspicious of mold when people say they improve away from home and are sick again once they return. <_<

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Yup....and to add to that list

cantaloupes and other fruits have a high mold content.

Like Michelle said....you dont have to *see* mold in order for it to be a problem. I always get suspicious of mold when people say they improve away from home and are sick again once they return. <_<

The same goes for pollens. In the spring, due to the high number of birch trees, I feel a lot better when I leave my neighbourhood only to feel lousy again when I return. Not a lot I can do about that. Even air purifiers don't do much because pollen gets into the house regardless (through windows & doors, and on clothing & shoes.)

Michelle

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'Bloating, gas, gluten intolerance as well as other food intolerance, fatigue, brain-fog....they can all be caused by a yeast overgrowth. Exposure to toxic mold is a big trigger for causing problems with the immune system...and anything that weakens the immune system can trigger such things as Celiac and/or candida issues. Yeast overgrowth is quite common in people who are reacting to gluten.'

hi Rachel,

this seems likely and to my horrible surprise I found a big, fat mould patch in one corner. BUT I cannot imagine that immediatly afetr some hours expsoing I can get candida overgrowth. it might be the mould spores maybe which causes immediate problems. otherwise I would have had candida issues in germany as well. OR? but there noop, and it was xmas and sweets!

it's still confusing, but now I know that I am not hypochondric, hysteric or do need a shrink, since the mould can partly caused my problems so fast. BUT can mould spores in the air really cause bloating and this disgusting stuffed feeling.

I do not know how to get rid of the spores in the air. I have a one-room flat, so I have to sleep there. the mould on the wall, I can remove, but the air in the room will be full of spores for a long time,

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" my diet is not very various since I am afraid to get reactions, so I only eat now:

chicken, rarely slamon

rice, gluten-free oats

lactosefree milk, cheese

gluten-free bread

bananas

low-fructose veggies (mostly lettuce),

in germany I could eat everything (g- and l-free of course) without problems, even drinking alcohol.

so maybe you think I am insane, but I WAS FINE in germany, and now I am bad again (and was before mmy holidays, although slightly better since gluten-free)"

Have you tried eliminating the gluten-free oats for a month or two? I haven't read thru the whole thread so I may be repeating here but oats have a protein that is very similar to the one in gluten. There are many of us who will react to them.

As for your mold problem you may want to consult a professional if you can if it is extensive or has invaded your walls. The first thing you need to do is get rid of any moisture that you can. Fix any leaks and superheat your house for a bit if possible will help a bit in the upstairs if it is a very mild problem. Removing extensive mold from a home is a job best left to the pros though and will sometimes be covered under homeowners insurance.

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hi ravenwoodglass!

Have you tried eliminating the gluten-free oats for a month or two? I haven't read thru the whole thread so I may be repeating here but oats have a protein that is very similar to the one in gluten. There are many of us who will react to them.

yeah, I know, but I brought the gluten-free oats fro sweden to germany and ate them there, and as I wrote was fine.

the mold will be real problem, it's not my flat I rent it and might move soon. the mould patch is approx. 1 squaremeter big, I removed the wallpaper, scratched the mould and washed the wall with high concentrated vinager. I am going to be something against mould some fungizide and try to get an airfiltering machine (sorry, do not know the exact english word).

and hope I am getting better.....

thanks for all help,

Sonja

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hi ravenwoodglass!

Have you tried eliminating the gluten-free oats for a month or two? I haven't read thru the whole thread so I may be repeating here but oats have a protein that is very similar to the one in gluten. There are many of us who will react to them.

yeah, I know, but I brought the gluten-free oats fro sweden to germany and ate them there, and as I wrote was fine.

the mold will be real problem, it's not my flat I rent it and might move soon. the mould patch is approx. 1 squaremeter big, I removed the wallpaper, scratched the mould and washed the wall with high concentrated vinager. I am going to be something against mould some fungizide and try to get an airfiltering machine (sorry, do not know the exact english word).

and hope I am getting better.....

thanks for all help,

Sonja

If you indeed have a mold problem in/on the wall, you need to bleach it. Vinegar will not do the job, especially since mold can grow in vinegar (see the list of foods in my earlier post.)

Michelle

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About the mold spores in the air. I'm sure an air filtering machine would be useful.

I'm also wondering if, for the immediate concern, if placing an exhaust fan in the window and blowing the air outside might help. I use one of those square floor fans and sit in on the window ledge and stuff towels around it to seal it in the window and turn it on facing the outside whenever I want to exchange the air in the house - like when someone has been sick and I want to rid the air of at least some of the germs, or cooking odors.

I sure hope that you can eliminate the mold soon and that you'll begin to feel better and less bloated.

We had black mold on the wall of our bedroom once and I used bleach first, then later bought a fungacide for black mold and used that. That part of the house had some moisture problems and the mold wasn't totally controlled until we had siding put on the house, which sealed it better and stopped the moisture problem.

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As Michelle said....you need to use bleach.

If you had no issues at all while you were away then I would guess that you are healthy when away from the mold.

Yes, mold in your environment can bring on symptoms fast. It also has the tendancy to weaken immunity....making you susceptible to other problems. If you dont start feeling better soon...its probably best to move. You dont want to further risk your health.

I hope you can resolve it since you like your flat. :)

Its possible that while you're exposed to mold your body is under more stress and reactive to other things....and these same things didnt bother you when you were away from your flat.

Sometimes the symptoms of mold related allergy can be exacerbated by eating certain foods, like cheeses that are processed with fungi, mushrooms, and dried fruits. Foods that contain ingredients such as yeast, soy sauce, or vinegar can also make mold symptoms more severe.

Good luck with all this!!

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Ok...I have a mold question now. :)

I've read that mold collects in drip-trays under refidgerators. I tried to look under my fridge but I saw no removable tray....is it suppossed to be removeable?? :unsure:

I did see some type of tray and it did look to have some mold.....but no way I could reach it or clean it.....I couldnt even see it w/out a flashlight.

Anyone know about refridgerators and mold??

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Ok...I have a mold question now. :)

I've read that mold collects in drip-trays under refidgerators. I tried to look under my fridge but I saw no removable tray....is it suppossed to be removeable?? :unsure:

I did see some type of tray and it did look to have some mold.....but no way I could reach it or clean it.....I couldnt even see it w/out a flashlight.

Anyone know about refridgerators and mold??

I think it depends on the age of the fridge. I've got a newer fridge (3.5 years old) and it doesn't have a drip tray that I know of...though I'll have to find my manual and check.

Of course anywhere there is water, there is the potential for mold & mildew growth...so a drip tray would be an issue. Also drum-style humidifiers are a big source, and that mold gets circulated throughout the house with the furnace air...very important to keep up with regular maintenance. We switched to a flow-through humidifier because of that issue. :)

Michelle

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I think it depends on the age of the fridge. I've got a newer fridge (3.5 years old) and it doesn't have a drip tray that I know of...though I'll have to find my manual and check.

Thanks Michelle,

my fridge is pretty new...its got one of those water/ice things on the door and some kind of cylindar thing on the bottom of the fridge. I guess its supossed to be changed or something...I've never done it and it drips water occassionally. The tray seems to be attached to the fridge...so I cant move it. I took off the panel thing on the bottom of the fridge and thats how I saw the tray. I cant tell if its dust or mold in the tray but I'm gonna guess its mold.

I dont want mold collecting there. :(

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oh thanks so much guys, I really appreciate your help!!!!

vinegar (high concentrated 25%) was just a temporarily weapon, since I had nothing else in the house. and I read it somewhere, thats too acid for fungi.

but bleach? what kind? normal bleach for laundry? do anyone know a brand or where I should look for?

You and the forum is so much help. I felt so hopeful and now I was so miserably again the last days, since it felt hopeless again and I may never get any rest from worrying what and why, how...and time for healing. I actually cannot really afford to worry about that all the time, I will do other things in my life and now I have to find a new job soon and I must have time & energy for this.

It's strange but I often blame my body to let me down as soon I feel hope. Anyway thanks to you all I got some power again willing to fight again: water filter, air purifier and so on...

best wishes for you all!!

Sonja

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Hi Sonja,

the bleach is Klorin or something like that. Household bleach. It is the only thing I know of that is known to kill mold.

I have some suspicions regarding a bathroom with some moldy smell at times here at my house too....

nora

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hi,

I did not have time to buy the bleach yet, I hope it is not difficult to find here. I used a spray for cleaning electrical contacts, it's very hazardous to aquatic biota, to get rid of the first mold and it worked fine. but I'll test the bleach too.

I also bought an air purifier, although it seems to make things worse, since now it's actually smelling worse in my flat than before. and today I'm feeling very bad again. but it has been running only one evening yet.

I bought also a water filter, since I found some literature about copper in drinking water making you ill with gastrointestinal symptoms. I have old copper plumbing in my flat and a lot of corrosion due to hard water. So, I hope this will help.

at least these things I can exclude as factors, when it's not going up.

best, Sonja

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hi nora,

I know how to 'fight' against the mold. it's not my flat, I just rent it. and its not that bad that my clothes would smell, it's in one corner and I hope it's getting better now with all the actions, although I really do feel like crap today, again.

what article do you mean? I may have access to Lancet through work, so maybe you can post a reference?

thanx, Sonja

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Hi! Somebody posted about mold and celiac earlier in this thread (I think). They posted something about the Lancet and mold and celiac. Very interesting.

I am a bit concerned it might not be enough to wash the surface, the mold might be because there is some water damage somewhere else and the building might be infested.

I have seen reports that if the fire engines have mold growing in the water tanks (fire engines are stored in heated garages...) all the houses where they use the water have to be pulled down because of the mold.....

We probably have to pull apart the whole upstairs bathroom to get it repaired. trhe floor is made from concrete, and there are tiles on the walls too. What a job. I have not been using the shower there for a year, to see if teh moldy smell goes away. But reading about mold and celiac here, convinces me that we really should pull it apart or I will stay sick. I have also had red and irritated sinuses for two years.

I am very sensitive to citric acid, too.

I think this is mold-related, just google citiric acid and how they make it.

In essence thay take some starch and add water and thatn throw in some moldy bread and then let it ferment, then they strain out the mold and do some rinsing and that is citiric acid. They can use any sugar or starchm including wheat.

I changed toothpastes recently as I started to react to the one I was using, it had citric acid. My whole esophagus was hurting.

I am posting this because it is probably mold-related.

Have you noticed any reaction to citric acid too?

nora

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