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holdthegluten

Candida Overgrowth

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....Yeast doesnt overgrow w/out cause. If it persists there is a reason that its happening....something is allowing for it to thrive (something other than sugar). Obviously sugar fuels it but the overgrowth itself is a symptom that something is not right within the body.

The diet should not be life-long....and under normal circumstances yeast should not be difficult to treat. Its part of the intestinal environment....it belongs there. If it has a strong foothold and is difficult to keep under control....its because there's an underlying issue which is making that possible.

Personally, I have not seen people recover from chronic yeast without addressing the underlying cause. The diet can "manage" it....but I do not believe that its a "cure".......

I beg to differ.

I'll lead with apologies to people who take Genesis literally. So speaking scientifically.....

Evolution determines genetics, and evolution relies on survival of the fittest. Within a species, Genetic changes only occur when an environment kills the species down to a mating pair or two ......with an adaptation which allows only them to survive.

The last time that could have happened to humans was 35,000 years ago during the last ice age. Humans were not eating wheat or sugar then, we were eating meat and scavenging fruits and roots. Humans only started growing and eating grain about 5,000 years ago along the Nile and on the Asian steppes. Humans began eating grain and sugar together as our population expanded. ......leaving humans no capacity to adapt to grain or sugar.

But observation should prove that. Other animals don't naturally have the rate of genetic-related disease present in advanced human society.

Gee, I wonder what causes it........

We are not eating what our environment chose for us. We are attempting to eat the foods we choose for ourselves. Sure we can do that, but some of us will die like our ancestors, without affecting the ability of our descendants to follow suit.

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BUt then what caused that? Does it ever end? Cant we just eat healthy and excersize? lol

The statement was with regards to mercury as an underlying issue. If your toxic burden exceeds what your body is able to handle you begin to suffer symptoms.

Mercury is a common underlying issue with regards to chronic infections such as candida. Mercury has the ability to damage any enzyme system in the body by blocking essential minerals. Enzymes are required for many processes in the body....including digestion.

Yes...eating healthy and excersizing is good. However, If you have an underlying problem that is weakening the immune system eating healthy isnt going to "cure" chronic candida. It will manage the symptoms and of course that takes some of the burden off of the immune system...which is always good.

It IS important to eat healthy and to not fuel the yeast but its even more important to figure out why its there to begin with.

If you have an underlying problem that is left undiagnosed and untreated...then no...it does not usually end until that problem is addressed.

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Evolution determines genetics, and evolution relies on survival of the fittest. Within a species, Genetic changes only occur when an environment kills the species down to a mating pair or two ......with an adaptation which allows only them to survive.

The last time that could have happened to humans was 35,000 years ago during the last ice age. Humans were not eating wheat or sugar then, we were eating meat and scavenging fruits and roots. Humans only started growing and eating grain about 5,000 years ago along the Nile and on the Asian steppes. Humans began eating grain and sugar together as our population expanded. ......leaving humans no capacity to adapt to grain or sugar.

But observation should prove that. Other animals don't naturally have the rate of genetic-related disease present in advanced human society.

Gee, I wonder what causes it........

We are not eating what our environment chose for us. We are attempting to eat the foods we choose for ourselves. Sure we can do that, but some of us will die like our ancestors, without affecting the ability of our descendants to follow suit.

I beg to differ too!

Whilst I do not for one minute either believe in or advocate the evolution theory or the length of time the human species has been alive, I do agree that we are not able to cope with many grains.

I am sure though, that this has far more to do with what mankind has done to it than to the grain itself, after all, even Jesus shared bread with his disciples and others and I am sure he would not have done that if it had been even remotely harmful to them.

Over the last three hundred years or so, through 'modern' hybridisation and genetic modification processes, the molecular structure of wheat and other grains has been converted (and processed) into a form that neither we, nor animals can cope with effectively. I read an article the other day that stated that dogs should not be given gluten-based grain foods. Interestingly, as the advent of giving pets and domestic animals grain-based feeds (not to mention sweet 'treats') has increased, so has their incidence of 'human' type diseases increased, like diabetes, and cancer.

Again, milk is another food that has been processed to the nth degree. It comes from cattle (herbivores) who are fed bits of other animals, given copious amounts of hormone-stimulating drugs and anti-biotics, and whose milk then has a huge proportion of its valuable enzymes destroyed in the pasteurization process and its structure changed in the homogenization process.

Apart from anything else - when the Bible speaks of a land flowing with milk and honey, it would have been referring to goats' or sheeps' milk, both of which, in their raw state are much less likely to cause intolerance, not cows' who were used as beasts of burden. Honey too is 'mucked about' with by being heat-treated which destroys yet more valuable enzymes. Sugar too, whilst as an occasional 'treat' for us is certainly not a problem, has become a problem due to the sheer quantity that is consumed each and every minute of every day.

No wonder our digestions are collapsing. We are no longer able to get the enzymes we need from the food we eat. We live in such a 'sterilized' world both enzyme and nutrient-wise, that our immune systems have nothing with which to arm themselves. Most of the food is grown in vastly depleted soil which renders it virtually useless in supplying an ever-dwindling source of nutrients, and in attempting to destroy so-called 'harmful' bacteria, the sterilization of our food is also, like the over-use of anti-biotics, destroying virtually anything of benefit.

Humankind thinks he is so clever. O boy is he clever. He is so clever, he is destroying himself. God saw it was good. Man in his arrogance came along and made it better.........yeah, right.

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I beg to differ.

I'll lead with apologies to people who take Genesis literally. So speaking scientifically.....

Evolution determines genetics, and evolution relies on survival of the fittest. Within a species, Genetic changes only occur when an environment kills the species down to a mating pair or two ......with an adaptation which allows only them to survive.

The last time that could have happened to humans was 35,000 years ago during the last ice age. Humans were not eating wheat or sugar then, we were eating meat and scavenging fruits and roots. Humans only started growing and eating grain about 5,000 years ago along the Nile and on the Asian steppes. Humans began eating grain and sugar together as our population expanded. ......leaving humans no capacity to adapt to grain or sugar.

But observation should prove that. Other animals don't naturally have the rate of genetic-related disease present in advanced human society.

Gee, I wonder what causes it........

We are not eating what our environment chose for us. We are attempting to eat the foods we choose for ourselves. Sure we can do that, but some of us will die like our ancestors, without affecting the ability of our descendants to follow suit.

I'm going to have to go ahead and agree with most of what you are saying. I think we started growing and eating wheat more like 10,000 years ago but let's not split hairs. It's really only recently that it's become a problem suggesting the higher gluten content (more stickiness) that has been engineered into wheat is probably to blame. Couple that with all of the other burdens we now place on our immune systems and the perfect storm becomes a good analogy.

I recently sent my DNA to National Geographic for genetic identity testing. If you've never heard of the project before I would highly recommend looking into it. It's run by Spencer Wells who made the documentary The Journey Of Man. This is my favorite documentary of all time. It traces our ancient ancestors out of central Africa and around the world using DNA to tell the story.

My DNA clearly shows that my paternal ancestors traveled out of Africa, through the Arabian Peninsula, to Central Asia and then through Northern Europe with my most recent genetic markers showing Celtic origins. My ancestors journey would support me having issues with gluten as it was not a widely available food source for Northern Europeans.

I can't prove this yet because I have not finished "fixing" my problems but I'm pretty sure that in small amounts humans can handle sugar and grain unless they are damaged to the point of having Celiac or diabetes. I'm leaning towards Rachel's theory that something tips the scales in our immune system which in my case allows the candida to grow which causes leaky gut which causes food intolerances all of which gave me chronic stomach issues and chronic fatigue. I can't speak for Rachel but it seems she is trying to emphasize discovering and fixing the underlying cause rather than just focus on the diet. The diet will cover the underlying problem but if you stray from it - wham. I think she is arguing that if you fix your underlying issues you will still have to stay focused on your diet but you won't be worried about being run over by the truck because you are no longer standing in the middle of the road.

I've heard the warnings about mercury in fish a million times but have never paid attention to it. I eat sushi once a week and have been doing so for 20 years. I catch and eat Bluefin Tuna off the coast of Massachusetts all summer long. Could this be the source of my "something". Stay tuned....

PS - Not interested in arguing about evolution or God - we each have our own point of view on this and should allow each other the space to form our own opinions..

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The mercury thing is a "catch 22" for us celiacs. Celiac causes tooth erosion and cavities. We fill the cavities with mercury, and the mercury exacerbates the celiac. I too try and get a weekly fix of fish oil in spite of the mercury warnings.

Tracking celiac through genetics is fascinating. I'm about 1/2 Irish, and half of that is Western Irish. The HLA-DQ2 gene which represents about 90% of identifiable American celiacs came through Western Ireland. The Western Irish come from Scandinavian Vikings.

It can prove extremely fortunate for humanity how the HLA-DQ2 gene produces celiac affects so directly tied to their cause, wheat. I think the DQ2 gene represents only a tiny tip of the silent-celiac genetic iceberg. Without DQ2 linking digestive autoimmunity to other autoimmunity, medical science would not be investigating the multi-faceted link between gliadin and all autoimmune disease. Heck, they wouldn't even be identifying diseases like thyroid and liver disease, schizophrenia and macular degeneration as autoimmune diseases if not for the DQ2 link. That list is as long as your arm.

In my opinion the most significant event in post-ice-age human history was the Krakatau eruption of 535 AD. Through grain, it had a profound effect on the world distribution of people. Mongolians had plied a multi-millenia trade in silk and spices across north-central Asia from the Korean peninsula through Hungary. They did it with horses and the grain they raised to eat and feed their horses. The Holy Roman Empire was in full swing. Its entire structure from London through Constantinople was built on the production, storage and allocation of grain.

The 535 eruption was so massive that it darkened the skies for several years. It's thought to be the source of the legend and term "dark ages". The darkened skies grew grasses, but produced no grain. The resulting famine and death toll ended the millenia-long Mongolian silk trade. It weakened the Holy Roman Empire to a point that it fragmented. The HRE's eastern power centers in Constantinople and the Middle East were overrun by Turks and Arabs who ate cattle and goats.

But the Europeans of the fragmented Holy Roman Empire created smaller grain-based societies. Presumably many in those societies died from that choice, and the remainder produced grain-resistant offspring. Today, the people most susceptible to celiac-related autoimmune disease survived from the fringes of grain-based European society. The most notable examples are the high-autoimmunity Ashkanaze Jews who didn't participate, the Western Irish and Scandinavians, and Mediterranean islanders.

Time will tell what grains will do to denser populations of Turks and Arabs.

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I can't speak for Rachel but it seems she is trying to emphasize discovering and fixing the underlying cause rather than just focus on the diet. The diet will cover the underlying problem but if you stray from it - wham. I think she is arguing that if you fix your underlying issues you will still have to stay focused on your diet but you won't be worried about being run over by the truck because you are no longer standing in the middle of the road.

Yes, I am very much emphasizing discovering and treating the underlying cause rather than putting all of the focus on the diet itself. The diet will only get you so far...personally, its not something I'd want to do for the rest of my life. ;)

Yeast is actually very well controlled by the immune system under normal circumstances. When the immune system is not able to do so its because the conditions in the body are allowing the yeast to flourish. You can starve it but this doesnt actually correct the imbalances in the body...so you are not addressing the underlying by attempting to starve the yeast.

IF the body is restored to its natural state (without being burdened by toxins) I do not see a reason to remain on an anti-candida diet. Usually when health is restored yeast is no longer an issue and does NOT come back when you have a slice of cake after dinner.

Usually when yeast is a factor its because the body is polluted....there is an unhealthy balance in the intestinal environment and the body is carrying a heavy load of toxins.

Some Dr.'s/researchers believe that yeast is actually "allowed" to overgrow in the presence of mercury. This is because yeast and mold have a high affinity for heavy metals. In nature...of all things tested yeast were found to have the highest ability to bind with toxic metals. This means that they can protect the body from toxic metals such as mercury which may otherwise cause serious damage to organs and tissue. Yeast bind with the metals...this is known to be true.

Since yeast is already present naturally within the body...the immune system *may* allow it to overgrow as a means of protecting the body from an even greater evil. This theory is being studied.

Whether the yeast overgrows because its allowed to...or because the immune system is too weak to manage it...or because there are imbalances which promote yeast overgrowth or...etc. etc. One thing is clear...yeast thrives in a toxic environment.....especially when heavy metals are present.

The relationship between metals like mercury and candida is very strong and well documented.

Imagine a clean lake...populated with fish and all sorts of little creatures...plants, tadpoles, etc. Everything in the lake thrives and its a healthy environment.

Then imagine that same lake after some mercury has been dumped into the waters. What happens to the lake? The fish become toxic...the little creatures no longer thrive. The plants die...algae takes over. The whole environment changes and the lake becomes toxic.

Our bodies are no different. When we are dealing with mercury and other toxins the environment changes. Its no longer "clean" and its no longer healthy. Candida and food intolerances are usually a result and not a cause....thats why these issues dont typically resolve without addressing the changes in the environment. A toxic body does not get rid of yeast very easily.

Other animals don't naturally have the rate of genetic-related disease present in advanced human society.

Other animals also do not carry the same heavy load of toxins that humans do...we invite infections, autoimmune disease and chronic illness. We are exposed to large amounts of mercury each day with amalgam fillings, we eat processed food which is loaded with chemicals, we are exposed to toxic chemicals from plastics and thousands of other products daily, we eat food that is full of antibiotics, hormones, etc.

The animals are exposed to alot of these things as well....however, they dont walk around with the fillings in their teeth, they dont get injected with vaccines loaded with mercury, aluminum, formaldeyde and other known neurotoxins. They arent consuming chemicals such as aspartame and msg on a daily basis. They arent exposed to thousands of chemicals in and outside the home each day.

Personally, I dont think its the grain and sugar causing all of the problems. I think its the fact that we are poisoning our systems and as a result we are far less capable of handling these foods. They are yet another burden on an already struggling system.

Autism is an example. Its an epidemic in this country and yet there is no such thing as a genetic epidemic. This condition clearly involves environmental stressors. Since when do grain and sugar by themselves cause such severe neurological symptoms?? Usually they dont (unless we're talking about gluten and celiac disease).

Autistic kids do not handle gluten, dairy and many other foods....they also have many issues with detoxification and nearly ALL of them have heavy metals and other toxins present in high amounts. They also have infections...viruses, bacteria and of course YEAST.

This is not something that was as prevelant just a few decades ago.

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The mercury thing is a "catch 22" for us celiacs. Celiac causes tooth erosion and cavities. We fill the cavities with mercury, and the mercury exacerbates the celiac. I too try and get a weekly fix of fish oil in spite of the mercury warnings.

Mercury in the body exacerbates MANY problems....celiac or not. It is also a trigger for autoimmune disease and a long list of additional health problems.

Mercury also causes gum problems, tooth erosion and cavities. In an unhealthy body which lacks essential minerals (due to the presence of heavy metals) unhealthy teeth, hair, skin, etc are common.

It is possible to not fill the cavities with mercury. There are much safer alternatives. In other countries mercury has been banned from dentistry. It is not necessary to use mercury amalgam....its a health hazard.

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The book I ordered on the Metabolic Typing diet turned up this morning and it is fascinating and makes so much sense. Our bodies all work differently. If we all eat basically the same diet it stands to reason that whilst it may work for some, it won't work for others, which is why no one diet fits all.

Whilst a particular diet may be good for one person, for another it may not work at all and for a third it might actually be downright damaging. I have long known that I need to eat protein, and plenty of it. My body also does not cope well with carbs - the book has clarified that I am actually a 'Protein' type who needs to have protein and fats at every meal, and has given me a better understanding and structure to follow. Others may need a mixed diet and yet others may need low protein and high carbohydrate consumption in order to function effectively.

Our 'Western' diet is so supported by high-carbs and sugar, yet it is highly likely that only a fairly small proportion of the population can actually cope with these foods although high-sugar is bad for all, but particularly for 'protein' types who, when they eat them, typically find themselves craving more.

Food is our ultimate source of maintenance. If a plant gets sick, we do not treat the leaves or flowers, we instinctively treat the soil and adjust the nutrient levels. Yet we do not do that with our own bodies. The MTD does not focus on the symptoms of disease, but looks at re-adjusting the way our bodies work at cellular level. Once the 'soil' is right, the rest will sort itself out. It's like putting diesel in a petrol-fuelled engine - if you put the wrong fuel in your car it won't work.

Because of the cosmopolitaneous nature of our modern existence, we have lost the understanding of the type of diet that is optimum for our individual genetic make-up and have all been herded into a 'Western' mold.

As a citizen of the UK it is highly likely that my indigenous roots came from the Saxon/Scandinavian area which would explain my pre-disposition for protein and fats as that type of diet is common in the cold climate areas. Those who originated from hot climates tend to need more grain and starch-based foods, but we are so 'mixed-up' these days it is often difficult to tell.

I have been through the questionnaire which strongly indicates my protein need. Things like Candida, Chronic Fatigue, Arthritis, Migraines, Heavy Metals, MCS, etc, etc, are simply indicative that the body is not functioning at a level which will enable it to either stop these problems at source, or deal with them once they have gained a foothold.

As I mentioned in my previous post, dogs are naturally carnivores. Since they have started being fed tasty meat-flavored cereal based foods and sweet treats in quantity, they have also started developing the diabetes and cancer, etc. Just as feeding them the wrong foods damages them, it does the same to us.

If we get our bodies working right, by feeding on the foods that our individual bodies need, then we should be able to experience good health. Makes a lot of sense to me...................

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As I mentioned in my previous post, dogs are naturally carnivores. Since they have started being fed tasty meat-flavored cereal based foods and sweet treats in quantity, they have also started developing the diabetes and cancer, etc. Just as feeding them the wrong foods damages them, it does the same to us.

You should check out dogtorj.net for some interesting reading on this subject..... Actually it sounds like you may have already.

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I have been through the questionnaire which strongly indicates my protein need. Things like Candida, Chronic Fatigue, Arthritis, Migraines, Heavy Metals, MCS, etc, etc, are simply indicative that the body is not functioning at a level which will enable it to either stop these problems at source, or deal with them once they have gained a foothold.

We are all genetically different. Some of us can detoxify more efficiently than others. Certainly diet and lifestyle play a role but genetics also play a huge role in our ability to handle toxins. Hence the genetic link in Autism...some kids can handle the load...while others cannot. This is not based on diet...this is more related to genetics.

Some of us are strong detoxifiers and others are weak detoxifiers. One person may handle a mouthful of amalgam without significant health problems while another may develop debilitating chronic illness from ONE filling. This is why no "safe" level of mercury (or other toxic metals) can be established. Whats "safe" for one person can have devestating effects on the next person...because we are all built differently and we do not have the same abilty to handle toxins. Some people are extremely sensitive to specific toxins such as mercury.

If you are genetically a weak detoxifier you will have more difficulty excreting toxic metals. If you have weak enzymes or some other genetic weakness you may be more susceptible to having these toxins accumlate.

Therefore, even if a person eats healthy, follows the "perfect" diet for their blood type, etc....this does not guarantee that they will be unaffected from mercury or other toxins. It does not guarantee that they can excrete them efficiently.

That being said....protein is essential for detoxification of heavy metals as it provides the amino acid chains which are needed to help move metals out of the body more effectively. Again, that doesnt mean that a person who eats meat is guaranteed to have no problems with heavy metals or other toxins....but it helps to include the animal protein in the diet.

Vegetarians are lacking these specific amino acid chains and therefore *may* be more susceptible to accumulation of heavy metals.

It would be nice if following a certain diet could resolve all of these conditions. I have seen it happen with symptoms such as migraines or joint pain...however not in the cases where metals are an issue or when chronic infections such as candida are present. Usually when MCS is an issue there is significant toxicity in the body and unfortunately this is not easily fixed.

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Dear Rachel

When it comes to zinc,did you try zinc sulfate(oral)?

May I ask what was your zin,copper ratio?

I think my son has some candida problem,I give him Hulda clarck's mixture.

So far so good,he is like himself again.I am not sure what will happen if we stop it.

what do you think?

I tried to find out some information about zinc sulfate,and autism I found some information about a zinc cream by kirkman but nothing about oral aply.

Any idea?

thanks Elisabet

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You should check out dogtorj.net for some interesting reading on this subject..... Actually it sounds like you may have already.

Hi Ken - I didn't check out anything - I have just used my noddle and more than a little common sense! I am sure there is plenty of information out there to substantiate my 'theory' :)

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Dear Rachel

When it comes to zinc,did you try zinc sulfate(oral)?

I have not tried any oral zinc yet. I dont tolerate supplements that well and during chelation I had to have mineral IV's instead.

I'm going to try oral again...I ordered some trial size to see how I do. If I react to it I'll have to go back to the mineral IV (minus copper).

May I ask what was your zin,copper ratio?

The ideal ratio of zinc:copper is I think 10:1.

I dont know what my ratio is because I'm not sure how to determine that. My lab results dont provide that info.

My copper is elevated and my zinc is on the low side of normal....which is not good.

I think my son has some candida problem,I give him Hulda clarck's mixture.

So far so good,he is like himself again.I am not sure what will happen if we stop it.

what do you think?

It could be addressing some other issue (possibly parasites?) or it could be managing the candida. No way to know but if you stop it and the symptoms return its because the environment in his body is favorable for them.

You can make a mess which attracts ants or other bugs...then you can kill them off...but if you dont clean up the mess they come right back.

I tried to find out some information about zinc sulfate,and autism I found some information about a zinc cream by kirkman but nothing about oral aply.

Any idea?

Kirkman has a zinc sulfate cream...to be absorbed through the skin. I use their magnesium sulfate cream...not for the magnesium but for the sulfate.

Many autistic kids are unable to convert sulfur to useable sulfate...so taking epsom salt baths or using the cream helps supply the body with sulfate.

Kirkman does have oral zinc supplements...you can find them on their site. They also offer trial sizes for most of their products. I ordered the trial sizes to see how well I tolerate them first.

Zinc can drive down copper levels if copper is high....but you would want to have labwork done to confirm this first.

High copper is also associated with candida.

High copper is a sign of inflammation. Copper has to come down to control candida.

Since I do well on DMPS (chelator)....We will use that to bring down the copper along with supplementing zinc and other minerals. No copper will be supplemented this time because clearly it is not metabolised and accumulates to toxic levels in my body.

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We are all genetically different. Some of us can detoxify more efficiently than others. Certainly diet and lifestyle play a role but genetics also play a huge role in our ability to handle toxins. Hence the genetic link in Autism...some kids can handle the load...while others cannot. This is not based on diet...this is more related to genetics.

Therefore, even if a person eats healthy, follows the "perfect" diet for their blood type, etc....this does not guarantee that they will be unaffected from mercury or other toxins. It does not guarantee that they can excrete them efficiently.

That being said....protein is essential for detoxification of heavy metals as it provides the amino acid chains which are needed to help move metals out of the body more effectively. Again, that doesnt mean that a person who eats meat is guaranteed to have no problems with heavy metals or other toxins....but it helps to include the animal protein in the diet.

Vegetarians are lacking these specific amino acid chains and therefore *may* be more susceptible to accumulation of heavy metals.

It would be nice if following a certain diet could resolve all of these conditions. I have seen it happen with symptoms such as migraines or joint pain...however not in the cases where metals are an issue or when chronic infections such as candida are present. Usually when MCS is an issue there is significant toxicity in the body and unfortunately this is not easily fixed.

You are absolutely right - genetics plays a huge part in our individual strengths and weaknesses, but it is not the only factor controlling our ability to deal with toxicity. If we keep loading our bodies with foods that our genetic make-up is not designed to deal with, we are constantly downloading yet more toxic material.

You are right that heavy metals are an important factor and some are genetically more vulnerable than others, but we also can help ourselves by supporting and encouraging our bodies' ability to process and discard them. The book does address heavy metals, indicating that they need to be dealt with in order to help the healing process, but that does not discount the fact that we need to get the 'soil' right so that our bodies can then be in a stronger position to deal with them.

No, the type of foods we eat may not be the only factor but it is by far the biggest one. I know I need protein (purines) and cannot cope with carbs. I am better when I eat the right foods for my metabolic type (not blood type - that is a different thing altogether). If I ate the wrong way round I would be a darn sight sicker than I am - I know because I was doing that and I was! Now I am beginning to get my diet sorted out (I was on the right track but needed more understanding) things are starting to move - not least my weight!

There are several different metabolic types. Slow oxidisers need carbs, fast oxidisers need proteins and mixed types need, well, mixed. Within those types are those with sympathetic and parasympathetic systems. this is not a 'pie-in-the-sky' theory, it is about the way our individual bodies burn fuel and the types of fuel they need to function optimally with.

Like most fast oxidisers, I cannot cope with carbohydrates very well at all and that includes sugar. If I eat carbs and sugar I have a problem with Candida. If I don't, I don't. If I eat Carbs and sugar my immune system gets weak and I catch colds. If I don't, I don't. If i eat carbs and sugar I get sick. If I don't, I don't. It works for me. But it won't necessarily work for you because you are different to me and may need to be eating differently. And that is the crux of the diet - finding out what works best for us. We may be eating the best food in the world and taking the most expensive supplements, but if they are the wrong types for us we won't get better.

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Yeast is actually very well controlled by the immune system under normal circumstances. When the immune system is not able to do so its because the conditions in the body are allowing the yeast to flourish. You can starve it but this doesnt actually correct the imbalances in the body...so you are not addressing the underlying by attempting to starve the yeast.

IF the body is restored to its natural state (without being burdened by toxins) I do not see a reason to remain on an anti-candida diet. Usually when health is restored yeast is no longer an issue and does NOT come back when you have a slice of cake after dinner.

Your argument says the primary reason for the association between celiac disease and candida overgrowth is celiac's tissue damage. You are wrong. It is not.

Celiac's primary means of attack is zonulin and membrane permeability ......not just in the gut, but throughout the body. Yes candida thrives on damaged gut tissue, but its means of systemic opportunism is through membrane permeability. Candida propagates on the spikes which it can build through celiac membrane channels.

So the trigger for candidiasis need be nothing but Celiac permeability. And in those cases, no, there is no lower level cause to identify. Are there other environmental triggers? Yes, research has certainly identified some, notably Epstein Barr, syphilis, varicella zoster, hepatitis........ But the common thread to all the autoimmune disorders you mentioned is gliadin peptides found in the spinal fluid. Gliadin-associated zonulin opens capillary walls and membranes, and subjects otherwise-protected organs to attack, not only by gliadin peptides, but by other microorganisms including candida albicans.

So no, no other environmental triggers are needed to form a lifelong candida infestation. Celiac alone is not just a capable trigger of candidiasis, it is a lifetime enabler of candidiasis.

Why? The aging process IS the process of membrane permeability. Some people start with permeable membranes. But those of us who were lucky enough to be born in industrialized western cultures survive the simple-to-cure horrendous disease and starvation killing 3/4 of the world population. Then we fall victim to age related diseases which are characterized by nothing but diet and membrane permeability.

Does western civilization produce evil chemical compounds which adversely affect our health? Yes, they are the chemicals and bi-products which allow us, unlike other people, to live long enough to abuse ourselves with disease-causing junk food ........wheat topped with sugar.

So we're looking at some other motivation besides fact for your insistence on western chemicals as a cause for autoimmune disease. You can blame your friends, neighbors and ancestors all you want, but they saved you to live long enough to complain about them.

Gratitude? Self reliance? ......Hardly. Name words which represent the opposite of gratitude and self reliance. Those are the words which describe your motive.

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You are wrong. It is not.

Settle down sport..... Rachel is our resident knowledge machine here ;) ......I suspect you might give her a run for her money though.

Something tells me you spend a lot of time lecturing the books in your library :D

I've learned one thing so far and one thing only...none of us have any definitive answers to our immune system problems. Share with us what you "think" you know and let us form our own opinions. It's our bodies after all.

Having said this please don't stop posting because you certainly have some experience and information to share with those of us who really need it. Maybe you could start by telling us who you are and why you have such strongly held opinions. It would help us decide if we should trust your info or not.....

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have you been to a naturopath? when I was a teen my ND said I had yeast in my intestines and gave me something for it.. not sure what it was maybe niacin? but I don't think so... it was white and tasted like chalk, was supposed to chew it. also you can find out about taking flora pills... I think that is what they are called they have the "good" bacteria in them.

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Your argument says the primary reason for the association between celiac disease and candida overgrowth is celiac's tissue damage. You are wrong. It is not.

Actually nothing I discussed was with regards to Celiac and candida overgrowth.

I was primarily referring to heavy metals and other toxins and the role that they play in chronic illness as well as candida overgrowth.

However, if I WERE discussing the relationship between Celiac and candida it would not be with regards to tissue damage. Nowhere in any of my posts did I mention that.

I do not believe that tissue damage alone would be a cause for candida overgrowth in the intestines.

We are apparantly not discussing the same topic??

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So we're looking at some other motivation besides fact for your insistence on western chemicals as a cause for autoimmune disease. You can blame your friends, neighbors and ancestors all you want, but they saved you to live long enough to complain about them.

Sorry that you are not understanding me.

I have nothing to complain about....I'm simply passing on what I've learned in the hopes of helping others. This info. comes from my Dr.'s...the ones who treat these conditions successfully. None of what I've posted is speculation on my part....its all well researched, studied and documented. Yes....toxins such as heavy metals DO play a role in the development of autoimmune disease. As you stated bacteria, virus, and other infections can also trigger autoimmunity.

In no way am I placing blame on my friends OR my ancestors. I'm simply passing on what I know to be true.....through my own experience, the experience of others and from what I've learned by listening to the Dr.'s who have a great deal of knowledge on this subject.

This information is out there and available for those who choose to do the research. I promise I didnt pull any of it out of my hat. ;)

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I fully understand Rachel, what you are saying about heavy metals and to a certain extent I agree with you, however, I do believe that a healthy body has the ability to deal with most, if not all of the toxins that are thrown at it.

Unfortunately, in general, we are not healthy. Everything is polluted - the water we drink, the air we breathe, the food we eat - all are indoctrinated with chemical pollutants. These things may well be useful in the right situation but Man is not capable of understanding the damage he does by his lack of knowledge.

It has gone way too far to be put right - we just have to make the best we can in the circumstances. At the end of the day, if it isn't mercury that is the problem its PCB's or benzines or pesticides or herbicides or...or...or... The list is endless. Most of these things we have no control over. Even if Man stopped producing any more pollutants right at this moment in time, we can NEVER get rid of the ones that are already out there.

What we CAN do though, is help ourselves by adjusting the amount of pollutants we put in our mouths. You say that you would not want to be on the Candida diet for the rest of your life. But what if that was the only way to keep your body functioning? Like thousands of us, you have had to adapt to being on the Celiac diet. If that is the only change you have had to make then with respect, you have got away lightly. For some of us, that is not enough. Avoiding gluten is only a very small part of the picture.

Everyone who is on a diet hopes at some point to be able to get back to eating 'normally' but for some that is not an option. Our bodies won't let us. If I am on the MT diet now, it is because my body will no longer let me eat the 'wrong' way. It coped and 'allowed' me to for some years (whilst I got sicker without knowing why), but has finally thrown its arms up and shouted "NO MORE". I cannot go back to eating 'normally'. I can no longer enjoy even things that many simply take for granted like cream, milk, sugar, even gluten-free carbs - if I do, I suffer badly.

Maybe I am stuck like this for 'life', but at least I have the satisfaction of knowing that for the first time in my life I am giving my body the chance to throw off a lot of the rubbish it has been accumulating over the last 50 years and hopefully will end up a lot healthier for it.

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Unfortunately, in general, we are not healthy. Everything is polluted - the water we drink, the air we breathe, the food we eat - all are indoctrinated with chemical pollutants. These things may well be useful in the right situation but Man is not capable of understanding the damage he does by his lack of knowledge.

This is very true. We are living on a planet which has become very toxic...we are all exposed to pollutants, chemicals and all of the rest on a daily basis. Detoxification is extremely important and this is improved by a healthy diet, excersize, keeping the body in balance (vitamins/minerals), taking things which can protect the body from mercury and other heavy metals (chlorella, etc) and more.

There are definately things that can be done to keep the body from reaching a point where the toxic load has become too great.

Sometimes the exposures are just too high and the scales can tip regardless of how well one eats. If a person's body cant cope with it they will not be able to handle the burden. I was very healthy for 3 decades....until I was exposed to more mercury than I could handle. Everything changed for me and it wasnt gradual...it was very sudden. Prior to that I was symptom free and had no sensitivities whatsoever...I did not have candida, no food intolerances, no digestive problems, no headaches, no joint/muscle pain, no memory problems, no brainfog, etc. etc.

I do not believe that my diet was to blame (although I'm sure it didnt help)....my Dr.'s have not ever expressed that either. It most likely would have occured regardless of how or what I ate during my first 3 decades. In fact it was pointed out that IF I had been exposed to this same amount of toxicity at age one rather than age 31...I would have undoubtedly been autistic. My own Dr.'s (who treat autism) have expressed that to me.

If you take autism as an example....these kids have not been alive long enough to have had damage done from eating the wrong foods for their body type...and yet they have the same underlying issues as many of the adults living with conditions such as CFS, MCS, Fibromyalgia, etc. It seems very unlikely that diet is to blame and more likely that they are reaching their body's threshold for toxins very early in life. This has absolutley nothing to do with diet and ALOT to do with a large number of vaccinations in too short a time span and a genetic predisposition which prevents them from detoxing as well as other kids.

The same thing can happen to adults. I'm sure we all know people who eat very poorly, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, and yet appear to be in good health. On the other side there are a great deal of people who have chosen a more healthy lifestyle and yet they are now living with chronic illness and are dealing with heavy metals, infections, autoimmune disease, etc. They are less capable of handling these toxins.

One of my Dr.'s mentioned to me that there was a study done where they took healthy people off of the street and tested them for a long list of toxins in the environment. The only requirement was that the participants had to be in good health (symptom-free). They tested urine, blood, tissue, hair and what they found was that EVERY person carried EVERY one of these toxins and in LARGE amounts.

People who become sick have reached a point where the scales tipped and the immune system could no longer cope with the exposures. The others have not reached that point and may never reach that point if they are strong detoxifiers genetically.

Also the tendency for these conditions (autoimmune disease. fibro, autism, etc) seems to be genetic. In many cases several people in the same family have health problems which are related to a heavy load of toxins and infections.

What we CAN do though, is help ourselves by adjusting the amount of pollutants we put in our mouths. You say that you would not want to be on the Candida diet for the rest of your life. But what if that was the only way to keep your body functioning? Like thousands of us, you have had to adapt to being on the Celiac diet. If that is the only change you have had to make then with respect, you have got away lightly. For some of us, that is not enough. Avoiding gluten is only a very small part of the picture.

I agree with you 100% on this. Without treatment the most significant thing we can do to improve our situation is to LIMIT exposure. This is what I did for myself prior to finding Dr.'s who have been able to diagnose and begin treating the underlying issues. By minimizing my exposure to toxins...not only in my diet but in my environment as well...I was able to relieve myself of a long list of disabling symptoms. I was able to function again and have been functioning quite well since that time. :)

I adapted well to a gluten-free diet..and then casein free...then soy free and all the way down to the very few foods that I eat today. You can count them on one hand. It is certainly not normal nor is it healthy to have to limit such a large amount of foods...even if I have to because my body cannot handle them. This is not how my body was designed to eat. It was very clear to me that something happened which destroyed my body's ability to process these foods...and it happened almost over night...and immediately following exposure to mercury.

When enzyme systems do not function as they should and there are metabolic disturbances in the body...this is the kind of situation you can find yourself in...and it can happen gradually overtime with more and more exposure to toxins...or it can happen seemingly overnight as it often does in Autism and as it did in my own situation.

I do not have Celiac Disease and I did not have any symptoms from consuming gluten prior to this incident which sent my health into a downward spiral.

YES...the way I eat now (the purest water available to me, all organic, very few foods) is the only way I can eat to keep my body functioning...but it does not change the fact that it is NOT normal. When Dr.'s treat the underlying issues and when those heavy metals (esp. mercury) are removed from the body and enzymes are able to function as they should....people do not have to continue avoiding foods that they were unable to eat when they were in a toxic state.

Those problems go away as the toxins leave the body. Mercury is the most toxic of them all (which is why I focus on it) and when mercury is removed from the tissue, cells, organs, etc...suddenly the body is more capable of dealing with all of the other toxins more effectively and more efficiently. They are all damaging....but even moreso when mercury is in the body and interfering with normal metabolic processes. Under those circumstances the toxins come in faster than they can be eliminated and this puts a great deal of stress on the immune system.

I do not expect to have these diet restrictions when I have cleaned up my body and removed the source of my problems. The Dr.'s who have a great deal of experience in detoxification of heavy metals know this to be true. The toxic patient has many allergies/sensitivities/food intolerances....once treated the same patient does not suffer from those same issues. They can usually resume a normal diet. Obviously those with Celiac still require a gluten-free diet.

Even if all foods are tolerated its not advised that a person live an unhealthy lifestyle....but I think most people who have gone through it would make wiser choices and are more aware of limiting their intake of chemicals and other toxins.

Everyone who is on a diet hopes at some point to be able to get back to eating 'normally' but for some that is not an option. Our bodies won't let us.

Our bodies wont let us eat those foods because our bodies are unable to metabolise those foods...any food can become problematic when the body isnt functioning as it should. In my case foods such as veggies, fruits and nuts are more damaging to me than ice cream or cake! My body cannot metabolise those foods.

If you fix what is "broken".....then certainly the body can do what it once did without such difficulty and we do not suffer the disabling symptoms eveytime we eat the "wrong" foods. *I am not speaking of celiac disease in this last statement*.

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https://www.celiac.com/articles/695/1/Does-...ease/Page1.html

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This interesting study compares a specific amino acid sequence found in Candida cell wall protein to a the gliadin amino acid sequence that triggers the immune response in celiac disease. The researchers found that the sequences are "identical or highly homologous to known coeliac disease-related alpha-gliadin and gamma-gliadin T-cell epitopes," and propose that Candida is the trigger for the onset of celiac disease. Below is the abstract for this study.

Is Candida albicans a trigger in the onset of coeliac disease?

Nieuwenhuizen WF, Pieters RH, Knippels LM, Jansen MC, Koppelman SJ.

Coeliac disease is a T-cell-mediated autoimmune disease of the small intestine that is induced by ingestion of gluten proteins from wheat, barley, or rye. We postulate that Candida albicans is a trigger in the onset of coeliac disease. The virulence factor of C albicans-hyphal wall protein 1 (HWP1)-contains amino acid sequences that are identical or highly homologous to known coeliac disease-related alpha-gliadin and gamma-gliadin T-cell epitopes. HWP1 is a transglutaminase substrate, and is used by C albicans to adhere to the intestinal epithelium. Furthermore, tissue transglutaminase and endomysium components could become covalently linked to the yeast. Subsequently, C albicans might function as an adjuvant that stimulates antibody formation against HWP1 and gluten, and formation of autoreactive antibodies against tissue transglutaminase and endomysium.

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http://www.denvernaturopathic.com/news/celiac.html

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Celiac Disease, Gluten Ataxia and Candidiasis

......Celiac is clearly an autoimmune disease. The gliaden portion of the gluten protein contains a sequence of amino acids that trigger the immune reaction. When they bind on to the intestinal mucosa they act as an antigen and summon killer lymphocytes to attack. The immune system also develops an immune reaction to the muscle lining of the intestine, the endomysium and the enzyme transglutaminase. [8] People with celiac disease make antibodies which attack both the endomysium and the enzyme transglutaminase. Once this autoimmune process has been triggered, damage occurs in other parts of the body and not just the intestine.

Neurological damage occurs with celiac disease. Early on this was thought to be due to nutrient deficiencies caused by malabsorption. Current research shows that the problem is more complex. Celiac disease stimulates the production of antibodies which attack areas besides the intestine including the central nervous system. About 40% of patients who suffer from idiopathic sporadic ataxia have celiac disease which damages their central nervous systems. [9,10,11] The neurological symptoms of celiac disease mimic the symptoms of multiple sclerosis to the degree that celiac must always be ruled out when diagnosing this disease. [12] The neurological conditions caused by celiac disease are now called gluten ataxia and cause damage to the cerebellum, the posterior columns of the spinal cord, and the peripheral nerves. [13]

The studies on gluten ataxia have revealed a significant statistic. In patients who had clearly measurable antibodies that are diagnostic of celiac disease and were suffering from gluten ataxia, only 13% had any gastrointestinal complaints. In other words, the hallmark symptoms of poor digestion we associate with celiac disease and use to diagnose the condition may be absent in 87% of patients with gluten related problems! [14] This suggests that celiac may be way under diagnosed.

Now we come to what to me is the most interesting of the recent research regarding celiac. It seems fitting that the research again comes from Holland , where celiac disease was first linked to diet. Dr. Nieuwenhuizen, from the research group TNO Nutrition and Food Research, published a paper in the June, 2003, Lancet. He links celiac disease with Candida albicans. Dr. Nieuwenhuizen, knowing the actual sequence of proteins which trigger celiac disease from the published work of other scientists, had searched the databases available to him through TNO to see if the same sequence existed in other places. It turns out the identical sequence of proteins occur in the cell walls of Candida albicans. [15]

These Candida gluten-like proteins turn out to be the yeast's "hypha-specific surface protein" nicknamed Hwp1. This is the yeast's version of Velcro and allows it to attach and hang onto the endomysium in the wall of the intestine. It is also targeted by transglutaminase, the enzyme which acts on the gluten protein and serves as a target for immune antibodies. Candida species which don't have this Hwp1 protein can't attach themselves to the digestive tract. [16]

If Candida can trigger the same chemical and immunological reactions as wheat gluten do we can imagine a number of interesting implications.

First, in people with celiac disease, symptoms usually get better rapidly when they eliminate gluten from their diet. This isn't always the case. Even without gluten some people continue to have symptoms. They may have intestinal Candidiasis. The Candida in their gut may be acting like gluten and continues triggering symptoms.

Second, an acute Candida infection may trigger the onset of celiac disease. Even if the Candida is treated and eliminated, the person could be left with a permanent sensitivity to wheat gluten. Candida infections occur frequently with antibiotic usage. In people genetically susceptible to celiac, extra caution should be exercised when using antibiotics to prevent Candida overgrowth.

Third, if wheat can cause neurological damage as in gluten ataxia, it is reasonable to assume that Candida could also do so by the same process. Reports of Candida infections causing neurological symptoms are not uncommon; now we have a possible explanation.

Fourth, if only a small portion of the people with gluten ataxia have gastrointestinal symptoms despite their severe damage elsewhere in their bodies, it is reasonable to assume that Candida could stimulate significant problems while producing slight or no digestive symptoms.

So what does all this mean? Here's my bottom line:

Celiac disease may be grossly under diagnosed. It should be ruled out in any chronic digestive condition even if the symptoms don't fit the classic picture. Celiac disease should also be ruled out in osteoporosis and in neurological problems, especially MS. Celiac disease should also be ruled out in Hashimoto's Disease and other thyroid abnormalities. Whenever Celiac disease is diagnosed, Candida infections should be tested for and treated aggressively. People of Irish descent are far more likely to get celiac disease than others and should be extra cautious to avoid Candida infections and treat them aggressively if they occur.

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http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-119059796.html

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The diagnosis and effective treatment of candida overgrowth

.....* Increased intestinal permeability as shown by the presence of antibodies to casein or gliadin (IgA antibodies suggesting current permeability and IgG suggesting past permeability). (8-12)

* A decrease of leucocyte phagocytosis both adhesion (Total Phagocytosis Index) and ingestment of particles (Ingestion Index).

This study also demonstrated that there is an inverse relationship between the candida immune complex level and the total phagocytosis index. But the ingestion index was independent of the candida immune complex level. This demonstrates that the presence of chronic candida overgrowth is associated with difficulty in the first phase of phagocytosis (adhesion of particles prior to ingestion).

Increased Intestinal Permeability

Increased permeability will allow the passage through the bowel of metabolites usually prevented by an intact bowel. These metabolites include the casomorphines and gliadomorphines from casein and gliadin respectively. These metabolites have been reported in the urine and serum of other conditions of increased intestinal permeability such as regional ileitis, (11) and may account for some of the symptoms associated with chronic unresponsive candida overgrowth. These patients develop intestinal permeability because of the progressive colonization of the gut wall by the candida that results in damage to the protein barrier in the lumen of the bowel. The appearance of symptoms related to delayed food allergy may also be related to increased intestinal permeability which allows foods across a normally intact membrane.

Removal of particularly gliadin and casein from the diet will produce temporary relief of some of the symptoms. After three months gliadin and casein should be reintroduced and the Intestinal Permeability Evaluation #2330 repeated one month after the reintroduction of casein and gliadin. If the IgA antibodies have disappeared then the intestinal permeability has been cured. But if they still have IgA antibodies then the patient should return to the casein and gliadin free diet. At this point gluten sensitivity should be excluded by testing for endomysial and reticulin antibodies (test #369 & 370). If the endomysial and reticulin antibodies are positive, the patient must stay on the gliadin free diet for the rest of their life. If these antibodies are negative then the patient has a bowel with active intestinal permeability which may take months to heal.

Leucocyte Phagocytic Function

Similar defects in phagocytosis to those described in Drs. Lanson and Broughton's study (7) have been seen in other intestinal diseases such as ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease. (3-15) These defects in phagocytosis prevent the normal destruction of the yeast (16) by the leucocytes, and despite frequent changes in antifungal therapy the patients only have transient improvement at best. Therefore it is important to understand why these patients have a failure of phagocytosis. As discussed by Drs. Lanson and Broughton, (7) the recurrent oxidative bursts produced by polymorphonuclear cells during repeated attempts to phagocytose the yeasts generates free radicals which progressively damage the polymorphonuclear cells.

Treatment with antioxidants, such as vitamin E, (d alpha tocopherol), vitamin C, and beta carotene may help to restore the phagocytosis activity. The amino acid taurine may also be helpful because it is not only a free radical scavenger in the white cells, but also may act as a detoxifer of xenobiotics in the liver.

Suggested Protocol

The patient who presents with symptoms of candida overgrowth should have the candida immune complexes (#323) performed. If this test is normal then the patient does not have candida albicans overgrowth but a different problem such as overgrowth due to some other species of candida (unusual but occurs in approximately 1% of patients), or a problem unrelated to candida.

If the test for candida immune complexes is positive, the patient should be treated with an antifungal regime and diet modification for at least three months and then have the candida immune complexes (#323) repeated. If the candida immune complex level has fallen and their symptoms have improved, the patient has been cured (80% of patients with increased candida immune complexes responded to antifungal treatment).

If the candida immune complexes are still increased and their symptoms are still present, the patient has Chronic Unresponsive Candida Overgrowth and should be evaluated accordingly......

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My focus here is narrow.

You told people here if they have a candida overgrowth, it definitely has a cause not related to current or previous celiac disease .......that they should identify that non-celiac cause, cure it, and cure the candida infection. You said then they can go back to eating candida-causing sugar.

That is incorrect ........incorrect

For people with candidiasis and celiac, the autoimmune response to celiac IS the autoimmune response to candida albicans.

These people have established an immune reaction to candida AND gluten which attacks their own tissue. Regardless of any intervening time period, new exposure to EITHER pathogen will illicit the same autoimmune response.

To a large percentage of celiac immune systems, candida and gluten are identical.

As shown above, this celiac website posted some of the latest research which links candidiasis and celiac at the hip. It is singularly inappropriate for a person to insist on dominating with personal opinion which, via the site's own postings, represents bad medical advice.

..

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You told people here if they have a candida overgrowth, it definitely has a cause not related to current or previous celiac disease .......that they should identify that non-celiac cause, cure it, and cure the candida infection. You said then they can go back to eating candida-causing sugar.

That is incorrect ........incorrect

Again, never once did I mention anything in my posts about Celiac and its relationship to candida.

Next....everything you just posted I've brought up on this board NUMEROUS times. In fact here is a link to my own thread on this very topic. Feel free to read it if you have not done so already. I provided all of the information you mentioned in this thread.

http://www.glutenfreeforum.com/index.php?s...c=29087&hl=

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So if we don't have Celiac (I don't - no intestinal villi damage) then what are we to think of a candida infection?

This is the Leaky Gut Forum. Most if not all of us in this section have ruled out Celiac (I might be wrong on this but it's my perception). I ate wheat yesterday and am OK today. The ice cream part of that cone put the hurt on me though :huh:

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For people with candidiasis and celiac, the autoimmune response to celiac IS the autoimmune response to candida albicans.

These people have established an immune reaction to candida AND gluten which attacks their own tissue. Regardless of any intervening time period, new exposure to EITHER pathogen will illicit the same autoimmune response.

To a large percentage of celiac immune systems, candida and gluten are identical.

If you read the study....(which I have numerous times) in no way does it state AS FACT that this is actually the case for ANYONE with Celiac Disease. They are speculating based on the fact that candida and gluten share the identical protein sequence which triggers the immune system to launch an attack...resulting in damage to the villi.

If you read it all again...you will see that there is no scientific evidence to support this theory. There hasnt been any studies to prove this theory. So for now...all it is is a theory. You have to be careful as far as what you present as fact or as theory.

When I present my own opinion...I state that its my opinion. When I share something that is new research or theory....I will include that in my post. When I state something as fact...I make sure that I have the studies to back that up.

With that being said....Do I BELIEVE that candida can trigger the onset of Celiac??

YES I DO...and if you read my thread I think this is very apparant. :)

Do I BELIEVE that some people who do not recover from Celiac (or have been diagnosed with refractory Sprue) are unable to do so because of ongoing problems with candida overgrowth??

YES I DO...and I have stated it many times.

I have always been very interested in this theory....but NEVER have I posted it as fact and never have I stated that this is actually the case for a large percentage of Celiacs...as you just did.

That is not an accurate statement since no study has ever been done to confirm that.

It is singularly inappropriate for a person to insist on dominating with personal opinion which, via the site's own postings, represents bad medical advice.

I have never given anyone bad medical advice. I actually dont give people ANY medical advice....I leave that to the Dr.'s. ;)

I share what I've learned and I always recommend that people find themselves a knowledgeable Dr. before attempting to self diagnose and treat things such as candida. I have made that statement about a gazillion times on this board.

You seem intent on attacking me because you dont agree with the content of my posts...but clearly you have misinterpreted most of what I've said.

You are now accussing me of giving bad medical advice because you found the same info. linking candida to Celiac that I myself have posted on this board. I'm more than a little confused. :huh:

I do not mind debating or having discussions which are productive...however, I do not wish to be attacked. You do not have to agree with my posts but you do need to have respect for me as well as for other members of this board.

You have made more than one false statement regarding my beliefs and also my motives for posting here. Those kind of attacks are not welcome on this board.

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