Tachycardia and palpitations

[Cosmicveganchick]

I have not been tested for gluten intolerance or celiac. After seeing my naturopath and having some sclerolgy done she saw some anemia and small intestinal damage. She did not suggest celiac but she is very strict in the health dept. Like we should only be eating mostly living foods because the rest is junk and bad for us. It's not that I disagree at all it's just hard to do and be somewhat satisfied. I am.vegan and try to eat as healthy as I can with the occassional junk food. I went to see her because I had been feeling a bit dizzy. No palpitations or tachycardia etc. No gastrointestinal things. Was feeling great until I got dizzy. Was working and playing tennis working out and driving fine! She suggested a liquid reset so I did about then days of that until I got covid and then couldn't take the detox flu fromthe reset and covid . During the reset before covid, I was starving all the time! Started only a day or two after the reset. Soooo hungry and was getting plenty of calories and amounts. ( Im Guessing because I wasn't eating any gluten?) When I ate some solid food during covid I felt much better and some of those included gluten. I had no thoughts about gluten sensitivity at the time. During my covid adventure🤪 idid some deeper research on small intestinal issues and malabsorbtion and finally took a deeper look into celiac disease and it seemed like a strong possibility so I decided to go gluten free. I had already started some b12 and iron for the anemia and then my bloodwork came back in range with only doing about a week of regular dosages so I'm not sure if I was anemic if the levels can raise that high in that amount of time? Ofc I wished I had done the bloodwork before supplementing but covid got me first and I didn't want to wait to take what I thought was necessary to heal. So after starting gluten free that ravenous hunger started right away and never went away ever and was so stressful. I felt like my sugar was dropping all the time and blood pressure changes. Super weak and very anxious and dizzy! Heart racing all the time and heart palpitations . I would also get heart palpitations on some nights every time I would just start to fall asleep it would thump around and not let me fall asleep at all so I would be awake all night with zero sleep and tons of stress ! Thats during week 3! So the other morning I decided that I was going to try and eat gluten again because I just couldn't take anymore or function at all and I'm single and have to do everything myself. It just felt like it was literally killing my heart! So that first bite was like heaven lol almost immediately after eating it the constant buzzing in my heart settled down and I've not really had any palpitations. My heart rate though has been higher than normal so that's interesting. I slept sooooo hard the first night and woke up with a weird adrenaline rush feeling. After getting out of bed I felt like I had a cup of coffee or something lo, I was buzzing a little. So I thought I'll have another piece of toast and see what the day brings. I took my supplements and meditated then went out to water the garden and had a pretty bad panic attack. That sucked!  For a few hours I was pacing around my house trying to settle down until I finally did for the most part. I had to go to work since I missed a day from not sleeping at all etc last week. I'm a massage therapist ang go to people's homes.  At work I felt pretty decent just some slight weirdness feelings hard to describe but not dizzy or hungry! Last night I felt pretty good! Oh a very kind woman on here suggested that I take thiamine for the anxiety and dizziness so I did and took some yesterday.  Maybe it helped? 🤔 but last night when trying to go to sleep my brain was sending these weird signals to alert my adrenals as soon as I would start to fall asleep! No palpitations this time but still thdt nervous chemical thing in the brain. So weird! Hard to describe. So I fought that for a few hours until I tried to just go with it and see where it led so to say. After a bit I fell asleep. I woke up today and decided I'll not eat any gluten today and see how I feel. I was pretty alert and not dizzy for the first time except yesterday. Then I did some kinda strenuous things right away and my heart rate ofc was shooting up. But I have been so sedentary for the last coup,e of months of dealing g with this so I. Hoping I'm just out of shape and get my heart back to where it was. Hoping it didn't get damaged during gluten withdrawals. So I'm going g to not eat any for a day and feel things out. Got a bit anxious this morning but not too bad. Hoping maybe all I needed was some thiamine? I did eat quite a bit of gluten right off the bat and wondering  if that can cause the chemical reactions in my brain last night? I'm. Iike if i can fix anemia with supplements and feel good or go gluten free and feel like, death I'm gonna choose the later whether I'm gluten I tolerant or not  at this point, has anyone else experienced these very scary things? I called 911 one night at midnight because my symptoms were so bad. They just checked my blood sugar and it was fine.

[trents]

Your narrative makes me wonder if when you first went off gluten you were experiencing "gluten withdrawal." Many people on this forum report that experience for the first few weeks after cutting out gluten.

[Cosmicveganchick]

1 minute ago, trents said:

Your narrative makes me wonder if when you first went off gluten you were experiencing "gluten withdrawal." Many people on this forum report that experience for the first few weeks after cutting out gluten.

Yes I thought the same and tried to hold off as long as I could but why do I feel better mostly after eating gluten? No digestive issues and I'm less dizzy than I was etc. More energy. You would think that if it was gluten withdrawal I would start to feel somewhat better not much worse at the 3 week mark. But idk! I'm gonna not eat it again and see what happens but I can't allow the withdrawals to hurt my heart! I really feel like im being damaged way more than eaten gluten. Never had these weird brain things happening and it's all too scary.

[trents]

In your long narrative from your fist post you indicated you were still having neurological symptoms (brain stuff) after going back on gluten. Many celiacs do not experience digestive symptoms. We call them "silent" celiacs. It is a misconception that celiac disease will necessarily cause digestive distress.

Many of the symptoms you describe, including the tachycardia, sound like they could be caused by vitamin and mineral deficiency, a hallmark of celaic disease. When the villi of the small bowel are damaged they do not absorb nutrients from our food efficiently.

Sounds like you need to get tested for celiac disease. But you would need to be back on regular amounts of gluten for 6-8 weeks prior to a blood antibody test and for 2 weeks prior to an endoscopy/biopsy. Regular amounts of gluten is defined as the amount of gluten contained in two slices of wheat bread consumed daily.

Edited February 23, 2022 by trents

[knitty kitty]

@Cosmicveganchick,

What was in that liquid reset???

Wheat products are required by law to be enriched with vitamins and minerals lost in processing.  In other words, wheat products have vitamin supplements added.  You felt better eating gluten because it had vitamin supplements in it.

Gluten attaches to opioid receptors in the brain and body, numbing out your system.

Your blood work came back in range so quickly because the blood work was measuring the B12 and Iron supplements you took.  Supplements should be stopped four to eight weeks before the blood tests.  Otherwise the tests simply reflect how much you've consumed in the past twenty-four hours.  Blood tests do not measure the vitamins and minerals in the body and organ tissues where they are utilized.  

I know about thiamine deficiency because I've experienced it first hand.  I'm really familiar with the tachycardia and weird brain stuff you've described.  My Thiamine deficiency got so extreme, I experienced Wernicke's Encephalopathy.  My doctors did not recognise the symptoms of thiamine deficiency.  They brushed me off as a crazy hypochondriac.  Thiamine and magnesium are the things that helped me recover.  

Take 300 mg for several days and see if there is improvement.

Some helpful reading....

"Be well: A potential role for vitamin B in COVID-19"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7428453/

And...

Is there a relationship between gluten sensitivity and postural tachycardia syndrome?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27606948/

And...

Vitamin B1 deficiency in patients with postural tachycardia syndrome (POTS)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28531358/

And...

What Is A Thiamine Deficiency?

https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/what-is-a-thiamine-deficiency#1

In thiamine deficiency, the appetite can be ravenous or disappear entirely.  

And...

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Thiamin-HealthProfessional/

Hope this helps!

[Cosmicveganchick]

1 hour ago, trents said:

Your narrative makes me wonder if when you first went off gluten you were experiencing "gluten withdrawal." Many people on this forum report that experience for the first few weeks after cutting out gluten.

Yes I'm not sure if it was because I ate gluten or not because I was still having some brain issues before just a little different. I am going to try again and keep using thiamine as knitty kitty has suggested and maybe that will calm everything down. I don't mind not eating gluten but if I feel like the withdrawals are harming me then I can't do it.  I feel like it's a loose loose either way if I am indeed gluten intolerant etc. I don't have insurance and I've not been working much so I can't go get tested right now or anytime soon unfortunately  so I'm hoping that I can get the dizziness and anxiety and palpitations under control with or without gluten to get back to working more and driving my car etc. Then I can get tested once I'm financially stable again. I cant work when I feel like death ugh

[Cosmicveganchick]

14 minutes ago, knitty kitty said:

@Cosmicveganchick,

What was in that liquid reset???

Wheat products are required by law to be enriched with vitamins and minerals lost in processing.  In other words, wheat products have vitamin supplements added.  You felt better eating gluten because it had vitamin supplements in it.

Gluten attaches to opioid receptors in the brain and body, numbing out your system.

Your blood work came back in range so quickly because the blood work was measuring the B12 and Iron supplements you took.  Supplements should be stopped four to eight weeks before the blood tests.  Otherwise the tests simply reflect how much you've consumed in the past twenty-four hours.  Blood tests do not measure the vitamins and minerals in the body and organ tissues where they are utilized.  

I know about thiamine deficiency because I've experienced it first hand.  I'm really familiar with the tachycardia and weird brain stuff you've described.  My Thiamine deficiency got so extreme, I experienced Wernicke's Encephalopathy.  My doctors did not recognise the symptoms of thiamine deficiency.  They brushed me off as a crazy hypochondriac.  Thiamine and magnesium are the things that helped me recover.  

Take 300 mg for several days and see if there is improvement.

Some helpful reading....

"Be well: A potential role for vitamin B in COVID-19"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7428453/

And...

Is there a relationship between gluten sensitivity and postural tachycardia syndrome?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27606948/

And...

Vitamin B1 deficiency in patients with postural tachycardia syndrome (POTS)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28531358/

And...

What Is A Thiamine Deficiency?

https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/what-is-a-thiamine-deficiency#1

In thiamine deficiency, the appetite can be ravenous or disappear entirely.  

And...

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Thiamin-HealthProfessional/

Hope this helps!

Thanks girl I will check out these links! The liquid rest is just green smoothies with your choice of fruits and green veggies with some kelp , dulse, hemp seeds chia seeds flax meal meal etc...highly nutritious  but I think since I took the gluten out I was starving to death! Had no idea then. But it happens so fast! Like today I didn't eat any and I'm starving! I did have a good size smoothie and was hungry right away.  My body is so hyper sensitive  to anything that I'm going to start out lower on the thiamine and just go up everyday if I'm feeling good with it. It also takes very little to affect me when it comes to most things. Good to know about the bloodwork! I didn't know damnit! Ugh  I've been using a spray on magnesium on my stomach is that sufficient? What do you take? Thanks again! I've gotta put something in this ravenous belly lol🤪

[Cosmicveganchick]

35 minutes ago, Cosmicveganchick said:

Thanks girl I will check out these links! The liquid rest is just green smoothies with your choice of fruits and green veggies with some kelp , dulse, hemp seeds chia seeds flax meal meal etc...highly nutritious  but I think since I took the gluten out I was starving to death! Had no idea then. But it happens so fast! Like today I didn't eat any and I'm starving! I did have a good size smoothie and was hungry right away.  My body is so hyper sensitive  to anything that I'm going to start out lower on the thiamine and just go up everyday if I'm feeling good with it. It also takes very little to affect me when it comes to most things. Good to know about the bloodwork! I didn't know damnit! Ugh  I've been using a spray on magnesium on my stomach is that sufficient? What do you take? Thanks again! I've gotta put something in this ravenous belly lol🤪

Oh and I felt almost immediately better within a few hours after eating bread.  I dont think it's because of the vitamins in it if that were the case I would never go gluten free lol so I'm not really sure why it made my heart stop freaking g out but I was sure happy about it! I can feel my heart trying to act up again today. Hopefully it wont!

[Cosmicveganchick]

1 minute ago, Cosmicveganchick said:

Oh and I felt almost immediately better within a few hours after eating bread.  I dont think it's because of the vitamins in it if that were the case I would never go gluten free lol so I'm not really sure why it made my heart stop freaking g out but I was sure happy about it! I can feel my heart trying to act up again today. Hopefully it wont!

One more thing lol

Do you take such a high dose of thiamine because of your body's low absorption rate? How do you know what's getting in or not? I'm taking mine under my tongue because they say it's better absorbed that way buy who knows. Same with my b complex , d  and iron

[trents]

Cosmicveganchick, I take it from your handle that you don't eat meat and animal protein. Am I correct on that assumption?

[Cosmicveganchick]

5 minutes ago, trents said:

Cosmicveganchick, I take it from your handle that you don't eat meat and animal protein. Am I correct on that assumption?

Yes

[trents]

8 minutes ago, Cosmicveganchick said:

Yes

Then it can be a challenge to get all the nutrients your body needs, even with supplements. I'm convinced there is a lot we don't know yet about nutrients and that is not totally covered by supplements. We are continually discovering new nutrients that were unknown years ago.

[Cosmicveganchick]

Just now, trents said:

Then it can be a challenge to get all the nutrients your body needs, even with supplements. I'm convinced there is a lot we don't know yet about nutrients and that is not totally covered by supplements. We are continually discovering new nutrients that were unknown years ago.

Yes generally b12 is the most prevalent deficiency when vegan. The animals get vitamins from the grass and soil or they are supplemented and then fed to humans. I prefer to just eat the plants but  b12 is found in soil and I'm not into eating dirt lol nutritional yeast contains b12 and I do eat that but not everyday etc.so much to learn about the power of plants too! I'm hoping that I'm not gluten sensitive and just haven't been getting enough of some of the vitamins I need but I need to figure it out at some point for sure!

[Cosmicveganchick]

1 hour ago, knitty kitty said:

@Cosmicveganchick,

What was in that liquid reset???

Wheat products are required by law to be enriched with vitamins and minerals lost in processing.  In other words, wheat products have vitamin supplements added.  You felt better eating gluten because it had vitamin supplements in it.

Gluten attaches to opioid receptors in the brain and body, numbing out your system.

Your blood work came back in range so quickly because the blood work was measuring the B12 and Iron supplements you took.  Supplements should be stopped four to eight weeks before the blood tests.  Otherwise the tests simply reflect how much you've consumed in the past twenty-four hours.  Blood tests do not measure the vitamins and minerals in the body and organ tissues where they are utilized.  

I know about thiamine deficiency because I've experienced it first hand.  I'm really familiar with the tachycardia and weird brain stuff you've described.  My Thiamine deficiency got so extreme, I experienced Wernicke's Encephalopathy.  My doctors did not recognise the symptoms of thiamine deficiency.  They brushed me off as a crazy hypochondriac.  Thiamine and magnesium are the things that helped me recover.  

Take 300 mg for several days and see if there is improvement.

Some helpful reading....

"Be well: A potential role for vitamin B in COVID-19"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7428453/

And...

Is there a relationship between gluten sensitivity and postural tachycardia syndrome?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27606948/

And...

Vitamin B1 deficiency in patients with postural tachycardia syndrome (POTS)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28531358/

And...

What Is A Thiamine Deficiency?

https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/what-is-a-thiamine-deficiency#1

In thiamine deficiency, the appetite can be ravenous or disappear entirely.  

And...

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Thiamin-HealthProfessional/

Hope this helps!

What do you think about this?

EZ Melts Calcium & Magnesium with Vegan D3, 500 mg, Sublingual Vitamins, Vegan, Zero Sugar, Natural Strawberry Flavor, 60 Fast Dissolve Tablets https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VVKA4MC/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_i_PRMWJ18RV3CYB5KAKC5D

[trents]

You might want to look into Choline supplementation. It's a more recent nutritional need discovery and studies have shown that most adults probably are deficient in it, even though they may meet the RMDA.

[Cosmicveganchick]

2 minutes ago, trents said:

You might want to look into Choline supplementation. It's a more recent nutritional need discovery and studies have shown that most adults probably are deficient in it, even though they may meet the RMDA.

I'll check it out! Thanks!

[knitty kitty]

7 hours ago, Cosmicveganchick said:

Yes generally b12 is the most prevalent deficiency when vegan. The animals get vitamins from the grass and soil or they are supplemented and then fed to humans. I prefer to just eat the plants but  b12 is found in soil and I'm not into eating dirt lol nutritional yeast contains b12 and I do eat that but not everyday etc.so much to learn about the power of plants too! I'm hoping that I'm not gluten sensitive and just haven't been getting enough of some of the vitamins I need but I need to figure it out at some point for sure!

B12 is produced by BACTERIA that live in the soil.  The bacteria may grow ON blades of grass.  But this is not where cows get B12.  

B12 is produced by BACTERIA living in the stomachs of ruminants like cows and goats.  Bacteria produce B12 and the cows absorb it into their bodies.  

B12 supplements are made by growing BACTERIA.  The bacteria produce B12 which is made into supplements.  

Yeast also produce B12 and is made into supplements.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29216732/

What made you choose to become Vegan? How long have you been vegetarian?  Have you consulted with a dietician or nutritionist about your vegetarian diet?  Do you know about protein combining?  

The Hair/Nail vitamin supplement you said you took in another post does not contain thiamine, riboflavin, and negligible amounts of niacin.  

The calcium/magnesium/Vitamin D above contains forms of calcium and magnesium that are hard for the body to absorb and utilize.

Perhaps you should chart your intake like @Wheatwacked does on a spreadsheet or app, to find out how much nutrients you are getting.  A nutritionist would be able to help with this.

There's eight B vitamins and Vitamin C.  Usually a person gets deficiencies across the board.  It's rare to have a deficiency in just one vitamin.  Taking just one vitamin can throw the others out of balance.  You need all eight B vitamins and Vitamin C and the four fat soluble vitamins plus many minerals (calcium, magnesium iron, etc.).  

Spray-on magnesium is not a good source of magnesium that your body can utilize.

If you get tachycardia and have to call the paramedics again, ask for a Banana Bag.  It's an IV bag full of vitamins.  Riboflavin gives it the yellow color.  

Knowledge is power.

[Wheatwacked]

Piecing together the timeline here's what I see. You went to the naturopath because although feeling well and strong you were experiencing periods of dizziness. She did bloodwork and determined you were slightly anemic and had small intestine damage. (Question: What tests indicated intestine damage? Were there other nutrient deficiencies?) You started the liquid reset and was very hungry, then got Covid 19. You stopped the liquid reset and felt better and at this point stopped eating gluten based on small intestine damage and malabsorption syndrome evidenced by the blood tests. In the meantime, weird stuff new to you, like palpitations, anxiety, food cravings, sleep issues, and panic attacks outside started.

So, regarding the hunger during the reset, I image the liquid reset is a mostly unsaturated low-fat diet.

Quote

Subjects gained significantly more energy after consumption of the lunch containing saturated fat than after the lunches containing either mono or polyunsaturated fat   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK53552/

I remember a long time ago seeing an interview with someone in the food industry who proudly announced that wheat is more addictive than potato chips. It was when Lays was advertising "Bet you can't just eat one". Gluten affects the same receptors as morphine, so it will elicit the feel-good response after gluten deprivation. Some of your description sounds like me when I try to quit smoking. Can't think of anything else. Gluten was my trigger for 30 years of alcoholism. The same week I started GFD I was no longer addicted to daily alcohol. I would wake up, take a sip of vodka, throw up and then finish off a half pint. Unlike the normal recovering alcoholic, I can now drink without triggering a relapse. I didn't like to drink until I was 33, became an alcoholic, then stopped at 63, like there was an on-off switch. The week I started Gluten Free Diet, I had vivid dreams of donuts.

Then there is the possibility that your symptoms are Long Term Covid and the other stuff is just red herrings. The timeline fits.  https://www.nhsinform.scot/long-term-effects-of-covid-19-long-covid/about-long-covid/signs-and-symptoms-of-long-covid

 

 

 

[knitty kitty]

Thought you might like these, too...

"Evaluation of thiamine as adjunctive therapy in COVID-19 critically ill patients: a two-center propensity score matched study"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8242279/

And...

"Repurposing Treatment of Wernicke–Korsakoff Syndrome for Th-17 Cell Immune Storm Syndrome and Neurological Symptoms in COVID-19: Thiamine Efficacy and Safety, In-Vitro Evidence and Pharmacokinetic Profile"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7960760/

"Thiamine, a very safe drug even at very high doses, could be repurposed for treating the Th17 mediated IL-17 immune storm, and the subsequent neurological symptoms observed in COVID-19."

 

[Russ H]

When you say you are having palpitations, is your heartbeat regular?